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(USA Today)   The demographics of the home-schooled continue to evolve and grow, from religious nutballs and the big ol' teeth in the past to the modern-day secular helo-mommy who never wants her precious baby out of her sight   (usatoday.com) divider line 344
    More: Interesting, National Center for Education Statistics, school ages, Virginia Department of Education, basic skills, Asbury Park, demographics, Heather Kirchner, Christine Bodwitch  
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6945 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Feb 2012 at 12:14 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-15 01:20:01 PM
huh, and i thought we did it so our daughter who has a learning disability could actually learn, and not just be automatically passed to the next grade.

The boy just got stuck with it, but considering how shiatty the public school system seems since the 16 years since I left it, I feel ok with it
 
2012-02-15 01:20:08 PM

masercot: I'll never understand why you folks are so down on homeschooling. My kids are both homeschooled. The oldest entered college at fifteen....
It is amazing that folks who wouldn't consider themselves bigots will go after home schooled children with such zeal...


I concede I am coming around on home-schooling. When it was just the makeshift refuge of white separatists and/or narrow fundamentalist zealots, I thought it was a hopeless enterprise benefiting no one except insecure parents.

But as more "Christian" wackos gain control of the public sector, I can see home-schooling as a way to ESCAPE their agenda.

Plus, if the parents are liberal-arts smart and the school system is test-takingly stupid, what are ya gonna do? Sacrifice your kids to groupthink?

Yeah, I'm coming around.

(PS: The only thing I still don't understand about home-schooling is the "togetherness" factor. How can growing, developing children and their parents stand to be around each other that much??)
 
2012-02-15 01:20:29 PM

Clemkadidlefark: The demographics of the home-schooled continue to evolve and grow, from religious nutballs and the big ol' teeth in the past to the modern-day secular helo-mommy who never wants her precious baby out of her sight

... or, say, maybe parents who Love Their Children Enough not to subject them to Propaganda, Myths, Lies, and Unionism which produces robotic muffin-heads who cannot think, are riddled with STDs and cannot find their own ass with both hands an a road map.


we seriously need a DUMBASS tag... for those times when neither SMART nor FUNNY are options.
 
2012-02-15 01:20:41 PM

jst3p: Shazam999: jst3p: Shazam999: Yeah no. Not sure where you got that stat from but it's totally wrong.

To be fair, so are many other things he said in that post.

You know, when I read a story like the poster had, and then they stuff in a fact that's clearly wrong, you have to wonder if the rest of the story is also complete BS.

I tend to shy away from blaming malice for what could be incompetence but after re-reading it a couple times I would not be surprised if we were trolled.


If there's one thing I've learned about posters on the interweb, it's that they lie. A lot.
 
2012-02-15 01:22:48 PM
bp0.blogger.com

Watch for the aforementioned "religious nutjob" angle.

Mom's totally just training her kids to rote-recite out the holes in "evolution theory" which disprove it.
 
2012-02-15 01:23:42 PM

RexTalionis: Somewhat on a tangent, I don't see how integral calculus is with homeschooling, anyway. Does anyone even derive any usage out of calculus in their everyday life? Frankly, calculus is one of a number of a divergent series of topics taught in schools that have no use in modern life. The absolute maximum use calculus might be used for is if somebody wanted to find out what the area under the golden arches might be - but who the hell does that, anyway? No, better for homeschooled children to differentiate themselves through other ways. Just as long as they don't wind up lacking the skills to deal with our information economy, otherwise they'll wind up as only a dish washer and would only know how to do washer methods.


I was told there would be no math
 
2012-02-15 01:23:42 PM
California dreamin is NOT
a goddamned beach boys song!
Talk about a lack of education.
 
2012-02-15 01:24:54 PM
We homeschooled our three kids up until they entered high school (actually the youngest decided that she wanted to go to jr. high the same year that the middle one started hs). At the time Mrs RT & I were self employed & did a lot of traveling with that so we just took them along too (it was extremely rare that we both were seeing a client at the same time so babysitting wasn't an issue). By the time that the oldest started HS they had been in 40 states & much of southern Canada, exposed to all sorts of different ideas & cultures, visited countless museums (from the big Smithsonians to tiny sewing thread collections) & historical places (Civil War battlefields make for great history lessons). There was just no comparing them to their friends who went to school here & maybe spent a week or two at the lake in the summer. During the 2-3 weeks per month that we were home they all were involved with local social activities (Boy & Girl Scouts, 4H, assorted sports, etc) or just out playing with their friends (we were the popular parents because we just let/forced all the kids go out in back & play without having every hour structured & full of activities).

Teaching younger kids the basics isn't that hard, but it does require commitment & effort. Done right it can give your kids quite a boost in life (learning things other than what is being spoon fed to them in school, developing good self starting work habits, etc). Several of their teachers have pointed out over the years that our kids are (sadly) pretty much the only ones in their classes that will confront/argue/provide a different viewpoint to whatever the lesson is (or are able to provide a firsthand view on a lesson about Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, etc). Something that they attribute directly to having all that exposure to different things earlier in life (plus with constantly meeting new people they developed the skill of being able to talk to anyone & not just those right around their age group). We've done solo teaching & also were part of a homeschool group (where different people taught different things), there is no one right way to do this. Looking at how they've done on most standardized tests since joining the school system, their early education certainly didn't hurt them (generally in the mid-upper 90th percentile in most subjects).

It certainly isn't for everyone, but done right & with lots of thought it can certainly be a good thing for the kids (& the parents but we didn't do it for us). Unfortunately done wrong (or not done at all while claiming to 'homeschool') or to provide a tightly focused view of the world (certain religions, or extreme far right/left causes) it can really handicap the kids' future.
 
2012-02-15 01:24:54 PM
Eric Cartman has a Hellamommy.
 
2012-02-15 01:25:30 PM

netweavr: ..... Calculus is not advanced mathematics despite what the US likes to think. It's fairly simple and can be taught in middle-school if we committed to it.

Instead we tell kids "math is hard" and "you'll never use this anyways."


Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so sick of hearing people talk about calculus like it's the holy grail of mathematics. It is unacceptable that most people coming out of high school don't understand what a derivative, integral, sequence, or series is. This stuff is the foundation of almost everything in the world around us. Later in life, even an understanding of what these concepts are is very helpful to people, even if they don't remember how to work with them anymore.

shivashakti: Most high-schoolers don't even learn calculus. Why should a homeschooler?


Not sure if trolling, or stupid.

RexTalionis: .... Does anyone even derive any usage out of calculus in their everyday life?


Yes, I do. I use it to solve differential equations to figure out how hot something is going to get because we make very large products that take days to reach thermal stability, but don't want to spend several days on every thermal test done during a project timeline. I use it to find the expected failure rates of components and subsystems. I use it to prove that something which is not measurable in our lab (say junction temperature of a semiconductor) is within a bounded and acceptable interval for all possible run conditions. I can go on and on. It's useful for personal things as well. Deciding where to put my money and looking at risk and expected rates of return. Any number of other things that would take days to list out.

Frankly, calculus is one of a number of a divergent series of topics taught in schools that have no use in modern life.

Again, not sure if trolling, or stupid. Seriously, that's possibly the most ignorant statement I've ever read. Everything that you enjoy in your modern life is because of mankind's understanding of mathematics, and calculus is not upper echelon knowledge despite what Americans love to think.

Fano: If they learned probability and statistics as a matter of course, I would be much more pleased.


They do learn probability and statistics, just at a very basic level that only involves discrete examples, most of which are artificial and have little to no use. If you want to do anything reasonably significant with either of those disciplines you need at least a strong understanding of multivariate calculus. Statistics is not the same as mathematics and is largely based on a branch of mathematics called probability, which is based on measure theory, which is based on analysis, and calculus is the training wheels portion of analysis. (Yes, professional mathematicians and statisticians, I know that's a flawed statement, but I'm trying to explain it to people who thinks that derivatives and integrals have no use in the real world)
 
2012-02-15 01:29:11 PM
gtpooh
Why not let parents teach their kids whatever they want?

Because it leads to thought processes like this...Hell, the "average" person reads ONE BOOK after they leave high school--which means there are thousands out there who never read anything again because I have read thousands of books in my life.
Your fallacious reasoning aside, I have to side with jst3p in the thinking passing the GED is an amazing feat may be setting the bar a bit low for yourself and children. Also, given that you're trying to tout your achievements as a homeschool teacher, you might also want to take off your home phone and address off of your public facebook profile or at least make the profile private.
 
2012-02-15 01:29:48 PM

gtpooh: I home schooled my kids. After Columbine (do you all even remember that?), the FBI came out with a list of 10 characteristics of children who "might pose a threat to society". Above average intelligence. Access to the Internet. Wears black. Plays violent video games. I don't remember them all. But my kids were spot on for all but black makeup and a history of violence.

So, when my daughter came home from school crying because the kids were harassing her for being different for the fourth time in one week . . at the high school closest to Fort Carson, so mouth breathing military spawn . . .I took both of them out of school. We unschooled. They studied what they wanted. Sometimes I'd give them assignments. But mostly we just did what we had always done, be intensely curious. And when it came time to take the GED test, guess what? They did awesome. The facilitator said they had the highest grades she'd ever seen. My daughter missed one question on science.

I know this MIGHT be a shock to you all, but education used to be parent run. Even after public education became something we did in this country, parents STILL hired the teacher in small towns. And she taught what the parents wanted. Calculus. Reality check, sillies. The vast majority of folks will NEVER use calculus after they leave high school. Hell, the "average" person reads ONE BOOK after they leave high school--which means there are thousands out there who never read anything again because I have read thousands of books in my life.

Why not let parents teach their kids whatever they want? Or educate kids to prepare them for the life they will face. A lot less drop outs if we weren't trying to force all children into a "this is how to get into college" education. A lot more vocational education at younger ages. If a child isn't all that smart, getting them ready to work by 16 would have advantages for society. EVEN if the only thing a child can do is flip burgers, having them do that ...


Okay...the life expectancy was once in the fifties in this country. There was once a time before Neil Armstrong walked on the moon. At one point, doctors only had the option to give you an aspirin and wish you luck.

Um...things are a little bit more complicated now.
 
2012-02-15 01:30:03 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: netweavr: ..... Calculus is not advanced mathematics despite what the US likes to think. It's fairly simple and can be taught in middle-school if we committed to it.

Instead we tell kids "math is hard" and "you'll never use this anyways."

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so sick of hearing people talk about calculus like it's the holy grail of mathematics. It is unacceptable that most people coming out of high school don't understand what a derivative, integral, sequence, or series is. This stuff is the foundation of almost everything in the world around us. Later in life, even an understanding of what these concepts are is very helpful to people, even if they don't remember how to work with them anymore.


But... They do teach this stuff. At least up here.

They do learn probability and statistics, just at a very basic level that only involves discrete examples, most of which are artificial and have little to no use. If you want to do anything reasonably significant with either of those disciplines you need at least a strong understanding of multivariate calculus. Statistics is not the same as mathematics and is largely based on a branch of mathematics called probability, which is based on measure theory, which is based on analysis, and calculus is the training wheels portion of analysis. (Yes, professional mathematicians and statisticians, I know that's a flawed statement, but I'm trying to explain it to people who thinks that derivatives and integrals have no use in the real world)

To be fair, most of what passes as science in primary school is wrong, or very, very simplified. I remember my first day of university chemistry and what the prof said: "everything you learned in HS chemistry is wrong, and we have to wipe it from your minds".
 
2012-02-15 01:30:41 PM

masiahjo: gtpooh
Why not let parents teach their kids whatever they want?

Because it leads to thought processes like this...Hell, the "average" person reads ONE BOOK after they leave high school--which means there are thousands out there who never read anything again because I have read thousands of books in my life.
Your fallacious reasoning aside, I have to side with jst3p in the thinking passing the GED is an amazing feat may be setting the bar a bit low for yourself and children. Also, given that you're trying to tout your achievements as a homeschool teacher, you might also want to take off your home phone and address off of your public facebook profile or at least make the profile private.


Oh snap!
 
2012-02-15 01:31:36 PM

grinding_journalist: masercot: The oldest entered college at fifteen.

Hahaha, that's hilarious. If you thought that was a good idea, you're a moron, and I feel sorry for your kid.


Its called "Dual Enrollment" and it's offered free here in Florida. Several kids in our homeschooling group are "graduating" this year with both a high school diploma and college credits. At least one of them is graduating with an AA degree. Cost? Nothing, other than transport to the campus. And the kids group together, so it's not a case of "OMG you're sending your 14 year old in with a bunch of drunken freshmen!".
 
2012-02-15 01:32:20 PM

RexTalionis: Somewhat on a tangent, I don't see how integral calculus is with homeschooling, anyway. Does anyone even derive any usage out of calculus in their everyday life? Frankly, calculus is one of a number of a divergent series of topics taught in schools that have no use in modern life. The absolute maximum use calculus might be used for is if somebody wanted to find out what the area under the golden arches might be - but who the hell does that, anyway? No, better for homeschooled children to differentiate themselves through other ways. Just as long as they don't wind up lacking the skills to deal with our information economy, otherwise they'll wind up as only a dish washer and would only know how to do washer methods.


My god. How did I now realize what that was. I get so pissed when I see people talking about how useless math is I get into RRAWWWRR mode. You got me. Very nicely done.
 
2012-02-15 01:35:17 PM
Yes, and they are just as cultish and annoying as their Christian counterparts.

However, at least there are private Christian schools to send kids too.

Private secular schools are harder to come by. The only real option for secular schooling in many locals is the public schools, and even that is under attack, as many schools fly under the radar until a secular minded parent asks them to stop having teacher led prayer and stop school official endorsed religion at the public school.

And this is without the worry the public school sucks added into the mix.
 
2012-02-15 01:35:43 PM

Sleeping Monkey: [t0.gstatic.com image 200x252]

/oblig


Did somebody shove a piano in her mouth?
 
2012-02-15 01:36:40 PM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: (PS: The only thing I still don't understand about home-schooling is the "togetherness" factor. How can growing, developing children and their parents stand to be around each other that much??)


well it helps if the parents aren't assholes who teach their children to be assholes

plus you can send the kids outside, or you can take them over to a fellow homeschoolers house in the middle of the day
 
2012-02-15 01:37:38 PM

vudukungfu: Sleeping Monkey: [t0.gstatic.com image 200x252]

/oblig

Did somebody shove a piano in her mouth?


You're supposed to shove the piano under your children, not into them.

img214.imageshack.us
 
2012-02-15 01:39:23 PM

DarthBart: grinding_journalist: masercot: The oldest entered college at fifteen.

Hahaha, that's hilarious. If you thought that was a good idea, you're a moron, and I feel sorry for your kid.

Its called "Dual Enrollment" and it's offered free here in Florida. Several kids in our homeschooling group are "graduating" this year with both a high school diploma and college credits. At least one of them is graduating with an AA degree. Cost? Nothing, other than transport to the campus. And the kids group together, so it's not a case of "OMG you're sending your 14 year old in with a bunch of drunken freshmen!".


Congrats on that! I transcribed a large report on Dual Enrollment in a school district in Texas, and I was amazed at what those kids were able to accomplish. They worked DAMN hard, and after a full day of high school (including a zero period), they would get on a bus and ride 45 minutes to the neighboring community college where they would take calc or poly sci or med classes to get into a nursing program. The admins at both schools were so proud of the students' achievements, and it had trickled down to the elementary schools--there were 5th graders wearing t-shirts that said, "Harvard-Bound" or "I'm Going to Stanford." Many of the high school students barely had any free time--they were enrolled in summer school, too--but they had an educational head start that most other kids can only dream of having. In addition, this was in a very impoverished part of the state, and while the parents were working 2-3 jobs to support their family, and in most cases spoke little to no English, they also approved of fairly drastic tax hikes to support the mission of the schools, because they knew their children would succeed--and in many cases, be the first person in the family to ever attend college.

I only wish they would do something like that here in Northern California.
 
2012-02-15 01:39:51 PM
Taking off on gtpooh's logic; Why not let parents teach their kids whatever they want? Why stop there; why have any standards for teachers at all. Open up the school system so these know-more-than-you moms and dads can get in and fark up other kids too.
 
2012-02-15 01:42:05 PM

shivashakti: Most high-schoolers don't even learn calculus. Why should a homeschooler?


I was homeschooled and took a calculus course. Can't say I got much out of it, but I doubt anyone who doesn't immediately go into a field that they use it all the time does.
 
2012-02-15 01:42:09 PM
Shazam999

Thing is, I went to school up to grade three in Los Angeles. (my dad was getting a post-grad degree), and all I recall are shared tables as well, with a very collaborative environment.

You do realize that is not an optimal situation. Collaboration kills innovation, only produces a mediocre consensus.
 
2012-02-15 01:42:45 PM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: masercot: I'll never understand why you folks are so down on homeschooling. My kids are both homeschooled. The oldest entered college at fifteen....
It is amazing that folks who wouldn't consider themselves bigots will go after home schooled children with such zeal...

I concede I am coming around on home-schooling. When it was just the makeshift refuge of white separatists and/or narrow fundamentalist zealots, I thought it was a hopeless enterprise benefiting no one except insecure parents.

But as more "Christian" wackos gain control of the public sector, I can see home-schooling as a way to ESCAPE their agenda.

Plus, if the parents are liberal-arts smart and the school system is test-takingly stupid, what are ya gonna do? Sacrifice your kids to groupthink?

Yeah, I'm coming around.

(PS: The only thing I still don't understand about home-schooling is the "togetherness" factor. How can growing, developing children and their parents stand to be around each other that much??)


They have assignments, reading time etc...it's not all face time like traditional school. Less babysitting involved.
 
2012-02-15 01:43:17 PM

TrixieDelite: DarthBart: grinding_journalist: masercot: The oldest entered college at fifteen.

Hahaha, that's hilarious. If you thought that was a good idea, you're a moron, and I feel sorry for your kid.

Its called "Dual Enrollment" and it's offered free here in Florida. Several kids in our homeschooling group are "graduating" this year with both a high school diploma and college credits. At least one of them is graduating with an AA degree. Cost? Nothing, other than transport to the campus. And the kids group together, so it's not a case of "OMG you're sending your 14 year old in with a bunch of drunken freshmen!".

Congrats on that! I transcribed a large report on Dual Enrollment in a school district in Texas, and I was amazed at what those kids were able to accomplish. They worked DAMN hard, and after a full day of high school (including a zero period), they would get on a bus and ride 45 minutes to the neighboring community college where they would take calc or poly sci or med classes to get into a nursing program. The admins at both schools were so proud of the students' achievements, and it had trickled down to the elementary schools--there were 5th graders wearing t-shirts that said, "Harvard-Bound" or "I'm Going to Stanford." Many of the high school students barely had any free time--they were enrolled in summer school, too--but they had an educational head start that most other kids can only dream of having. In addition, this was in a very impoverished part of the state, and while the parents were working 2-3 jobs to support their family, and in most cases spoke little to no English, they also approved of fairly drastic tax hikes to support the mission of the schools, because they knew their children would succeed--and in many cases, be the first person in the family to ever attend college.

I only wish they would do something like that here in Northern California.


Good grief.

Look, I was top of my class in all the "hard" subjects.

Big farking deal.

Getting into college? Whee.

Your special snowflakes getting into Harvard? Again, big farking deal.

Hey, it's great. Seriously. In the grand deal that is life, so what. Keep your kids from being fark-ups, and teach them to respect other people, no matter where they're from. It's something you haven't accomplished with yourself, so it's a bit more difficult than you might think.
 
2012-02-15 01:44:43 PM

Buffalo77: Shazam999

Thing is, I went to school up to grade three in Los Angeles. (my dad was getting a post-grad degree), and all I recall are shared tables as well, with a very collaborative environment.

You do realize that is not an optimal situation. Collaboration kills innovation, only produces a mediocre consensus.


Well that explains fark then.

Got any other nuggets of wisdom?
 
2012-02-15 01:44:54 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: I've never read USA Today comments before. This one was particularly impressive:

I cant stand when people say 'you need to do this' or 'make sure you do that' when it comes to what people do with their home schooled children. Its no one's business what I do with my children, whether I choose to school them in a cave in the middle of the desert or in the middle of an auditorium full of other children it is NO ONE'S business, let alone yours. Your definition of 'proper behavior' and mine differ-learing is not always about sitting still and staring at the chalk board. It's about learning to live in the world. The teachers who complain about dealing with these children who 'have no filter' and cannot sit and listen, who complain that that child is 'needier' is unaccustomed to dealing with any not forced into the mold of society and then that child is labeled a problem. Because the child wants affection and attention, he or she is labled 'needy.' Because they want to dance instead of sitting during the group song, it's said they cannot sit still and therefore they dont know how to behave properly. When did wanting love and attention, when wanting to dance and sing or act out the story instead of listening to it become misbehaving? People who push these ideas are just as much part of the problem as the government with their standardized tests. I couldnt care less what the complaints of some teacher my child will never meet might be. I'll school my child the way I want-you school yours the way you want; keep your nose out of my school and I'll keep mine out of yours.

Sounds like a stellar parent.


farm3.static.flickr.com

/If it feels good, do it!
//I remember when Hippies roamed the Earth
 
2012-02-15 01:45:33 PM
Anecdotal: Please ignore if you want cold, hard facts

I knew two families in my neighborhood that home-schooled their kids. One family only did home-school until the kids were Jr. High/middle school age. The other family kept their kids out of public school for their entire education. The first family's kids ended up adjusting well to an active social life and all went on to complete college degrees and have what a lot of people would consider normal lives. The second family's kids got involved in questionable activities when they moved out, had no motivation to contribute to any kind of social relationship, and now all but one of their kids has returned home to live with mommy and daddy.

Point: If you can't stand to leave your 'baby' in some other person's hands, ever, they will never learn to trust others. And be prepared to have them around, forever.

/forever
//forever
///forever
 
2012-02-15 01:47:06 PM

hitlersbrain: Unless you are billionaire, your kids would benefit greatly from 'Unionism' - whichever definition you were thinking of. Alone they are nothing, in groups (unions) they have power, fairness and justice. Without things like unions, your kids will just be biatches working for shiat.


Citation needed.
 
2012-02-15 01:48:41 PM

Aarontology: Rote memorization of the dictionary.

Very impressive there. I'm sure that will help them get into college or get a job.


Because the kids going to public school can't do that and surely the home school kid must be slumping in some other area since the focus is on this?
 
2012-02-15 01:50:04 PM

gtpooh: I home schooled my kids. After Columbine (do you all even remember that?), the FBI came out with a list of 10 characteristics of children who "might pose a threat to society". Above average intelligence. Access to the Internet. Wears black. Plays violent video games. I don't remember them all. But my kids were spot on for all but black makeup and a history of violence.

So, when my daughter came home from school crying because the kids were harassing her for being different for the fourth time in one week . . at the high school closest to Fort Carson, so mouth breathing military spawn . . .I took both of them out of school. We unschooled. They studied what they wanted. Sometimes I'd give them assignments. But mostly we just did what we had always done, be intensely curious. And when it came time to take the GED test, guess what? They did awesome. The facilitator said they had the highest grades she'd ever seen. My daughter missed one question on science.

I know this MIGHT be a shock to you all, but education used to be parent run. Even after public education became something we did in this country, parents STILL hired the teacher in small towns. And she taught what the parents wanted. Calculus. Reality check, sillies. The vast majority of folks will NEVER use calculus after they leave high school. Hell, the "average" person reads ONE BOOK after they leave high school--which means there are thousands out there who never read anything again because I have read thousands of books in my life.

Why not let parents teach their kids whatever they want? Or educate kids to prepare them for the life they will face. A lot less drop outs if we weren't trying to force all children into a "this is how to get into college" education. A lot more vocational education at younger ages. If a child isn't all that smart, getting them ready to work by 16 would have advantages for society. EVEN if the only thing a child can do is flip burgers, having them do that ...


First bolded section: Appeal to tradition (new window)

Second bolded section: Because the kid suffers as a result of parental ignorance and flawed thought process, like the fallacy above, being ingrained into their own thought process, which in turn hinders them in their own adult life?
 
2012-02-15 01:51:18 PM
"Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house." LL
 
2012-02-15 01:52:35 PM
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." LL
 
2012-02-15 01:53:58 PM

Duke_leto_Atredes: "Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house." LL


You've got an unreasonably high expectation of Farkers.
 
2012-02-15 01:57:33 PM
I moved around a lot as a kid. My dad was active duty military and had no problem uprooting the family every 6 months to 3 years. When I was 9 we were stationed in Nebraska for only 3 months. There was no base housing there and the only place my parents were able to afford was out in the middle of nowhere where our closest neighbor was over 10 miles away. Because of the short amount of time we were going to be there, my mother decided to home school. That was the longest 3 months of my life. I ended up spending most of the time explaining the material to her instead of learning something new.

Final count stands at 7 elementary schools (4 before 3rd grade), 3 jr. highs, 2 high schools.
 
2012-02-15 01:59:27 PM

Lsherm: RexTalionis: shivashakti: abb3w: You say that like that's a perfectly acceptable state of affairs.

I've never taken calculus and I don't think my life has been adversely affected by it. Sure, if someone was becoming an engineer or something that requires calculus, that's one thing.

But I don't see the need for all high school students to take it..

Somewhat on a tangent, I don't see how integral calculus is with homeschooling, anyway. Does anyone even derive any usage out of calculus in their everyday life? Frankly, calculus is one of a number of a divergent series of topics taught in schools that have no use in modern life. The absolute maximum use calculus might be used for is if somebody wanted to find out what the area under the golden arches might be - but who the hell does that, anyway? No, better for homeschooled children to differentiate themselves through other ways. Just as long as they don't wind up lacking the skills to deal with our information economy, otherwise they'll wind up as only a dish washer and would only know how to do washer methods.

It does not surprise me that the public school advocate doesn't find any use in calculus.


Actually he just used calculus to make you look silly. Is there a better use?
 
2012-02-15 01:59:34 PM
Here is a dirty little secret that small business owners have. We hire home schoolers because they are better educated, have a stronger work ethic, can work independently and do not believe they are entitled to everything just because they exist.

The sterotype they are undersocialized, I expect is furthered by teacher's unions who are scared to death as to what whould happen to their profession if anyone figured out how just totally useless they are.
 
2012-02-15 02:01:37 PM

gimmegimme: I would be fine with homeschooling if parents could demonstrate they can, for example, still do calculus. So many Americans are unable to figure out the change without looking at the register or to find Iraq on a world map...what percentage of parents know what they're talking about?

They need to be certified to make sure they're not ruining their child's life...right?


You actually don't even need a high school education to educate properly. You just need to be able to keep ahead of your kids. Homeschoolers, as a whole, are two grades ahead of public schoolers by the end of high school, and score hugely higher on any standardized test. They also do better in college, and in real life when it comes to getting jobs.

My parents, incidently, have Master's from MIT and RPI. I personally went up through Calc III and scored a 98% in that particular class, and my writing skills are also far above average (ironically, I got 770 verbal on the SAT and only 710 math, the multiple-choice questions in math did a good job of faking me out...) One of my sisters is working on her PhD, another a Master's, my oldest brother graduated with honors from the Coast Guard Academy (the most academically-rigorous military collect in the nation, probably), etc. None of us are flipping burgers; even my most stupid sibling graduated from college and has a good job.
 
2012-02-15 02:01:44 PM

Jixa: Final count stands at 7 elementary schools (4 before 3rd grade), 3 jr. highs, 2 high schools.


Pfft. Amateur.

/4 primary schools, 8 high schools, in 5 different countries
 
2012-02-15 02:03:43 PM

shivashakti: I've never taken calculus and I don't think my life has been adversely affected by it. Sure, if someone was becoming an engineer or something that requires calculus, that's one thing.


So, given a goal of increasing the number of high-school graduates suited to going on to STEM employment....

RexTalionis: Somewhat on a tangent

[...]

Flakeloaf: What you did there. I see it and I approve.


Nice catch; I almost missed it.

Fano: If they learned probability and statistics as a matter of course, I would be much more pleased.


An interesting notion; unfortunately, there's a catch there....
upload.wikimedia.org

netweavr: It's fairly simple and can be taught in middle-school if we committed to it.


The basic questions can be explained to a five-year-old... which makes easier showing them earlier how to find the answers.

luckybob343: Can't we just make schools good?


Good luck with that. Sincerely.

schubie: Public schools are pretty much designed to make little unquestioning automatons who love their country.


Depends somewhat on the community... but too many, yes.
 
2012-02-15 02:06:17 PM

2xcited: Here is a dirty little secret that small business owners have. We hire home schoolers because they are better educated, have a stronger work ethic, can work independently and do not believe they are entitled to everything just because they exist.

The sterotype they are undersocialized, I expect is furthered by teacher's unions who are scared to death as to what whould happen to their profession if anyone figured out how just totally useless they are.


Man, in a thread full of derp from the home-schoolers, and this comment almost tops them all. Almost.
 
2012-02-15 02:07:14 PM
Here are some choice examples from the Conservapedia homeschool final exam, including special bonus questions.

1. This Christian - considered one of the most influential persons in all of world history - read the Bible nearly every day for intellectual inspiration, and discovered both calculus and gravity:

3. About what percentage of the world is Christian today?

4. Which of the following made this statement in German: "I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature."

9. The author of the Books of Proverbs and Ecclesiastes was probably:

12. This great American general, who was homeschooled and mastered the art of tank warfare, once said, "You need to overcome the tug of people against you as you reach for high goals." Who was he?

27. How does Christianity differ most from the other major religions of the world?
(a) The emphasis of Christianity on submission to God.
(b) The emphasis of Christianity on faith.
(c) The emphasis of Christianity on wisdom and justice.
(d) The emphasis of Christianity on ending desire, because desire causes suffering.

39. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt would not have underestimated how difficult it would be to defeat the Japanese in World War II if he had learned about this group in world history:

54. All of the following were influential in world history by drawing strength from their Christianity EXCEPT

EXTRA CREDIT:

(for girls only)
Each of the following was a great composer of classical music EXCEPT:
(a) Beethoven
(b) Bach
(c) Mozart
(d) Marx

(for boys only)
A reason the people of North Korea have suffered under communist rule for more than 50 years:
(a) North Koreans defeated American soldiers there.
(b) North Korea is a Muslim nation, and Islam prefers communism.
(c) President Truman did not allow General Douglas MacArthur to win the Korean War.
(d) Japan is a close friend of North Korea and continues to give it much support.
 
2012-02-15 02:07:22 PM

Bad_Seed: Jixa: Final count stands at 7 elementary schools (4 before 3rd grade), 3 jr. highs, 2 high schools.

Pfft. Amateur.

/4 primary schools, 8 high schools, in 5 different countries


5 Elementry schools 2 middle schools 7 high schools
 
2012-02-15 02:08:19 PM

Elvis_Bogart: gimmegimme: They need to be certified to make sure they're not ruining their child's life...right?

Certified by who? The Teachers Union? If that's the case, a retired Harvard Professor wouldn't be "good" enough. (Unless he's still paying Union dues)

If Home schoolers are such chumps, then why do they always seem to be over-represented in spelling bees?

Don't they have to pass state competency tests like every one else?

I know, I know...if it isn't from The Government it's crap.


When you have one pupil or let's even say four, and you choose to focus on one thing, it is easier to produce an isolated result. I always hear that home schooled children perform better on the tests, but the ones that I have met have never impressed me, but most of them were home schooled for religious reasons. So, their heads were full of a bunch of crap. It was funny and sad to watch them run into reality at college. That's what happens when you confuse sophistry with logic and reason. One father was a professed amateur anthropoligist who was going to disprove evolution. I just walked away after talking with him for ten minutes. He was a nutcase and pretty much kept his wife and kids prisoners in the house.

That being said, my wife and I are thinking about home schooling. She is a former biochemist, and now a PA. We have both had advanced mathematics (calculus, differential equations, advanced statistics) and have read and studied the classics, taken Latin, and I can teach our child IT skills and martial arts for physical education.

I wish our local public schools were better, but I know the superintendant and his cronies, and they are complete morons obsessed with accumulating grant funding and fancy sounding programs that wind up going nowhere except in the local paper as big ataboys. I watched them destroy a tutoring program that was helping 300 kids with measurable positive results, because he wanted to buddy with the YMCA that had its hand in the deep pockets of a local foundation. He succeeded and their program amounted to the kids watching videos after school at the Y and folded in eight months.

Home schooling can be great, but is more often used as an excuse by the religiously insane to control their kids.
 
2012-02-15 02:09:49 PM

Bad_Seed: Jixa: Final count stands at 7 elementary schools (4 before 3rd grade), 3 jr. highs, 2 high schools.

Pfft. Amateur.

/4 primary schools, 8 high schools, in 5 different countries


I went to six elementary schools and two middle schools but only one high school. You guys got me beat but my parents weren't in the military so I still think it is pretty impressive.
 
2012-02-15 02:10:02 PM

j0ndas: I personally went


...so, you should be able to understand the math here?
 
2012-02-15 02:10:14 PM
I was homeschooled when I was a kid - never went to a public school, or even a private one, a day in my life. You can't generalize, or at least not accurately, about the merits of homeschooling. One thing is, you can do it really well, or you can do it really poorly. And even then there will be variations in how the kids perform, depending on what makes them tick.

For instance, I think my parents did it poorly, but two of us have gotten one or more post-graduate degrees. On the other hand, two others struggled to get their GEDs.

One thing that I hated at the time was that we had no television, and we weren't allowed even to watch it at other peoples' houses. But as it turns out, that was probably the best thing about the way we grew up. We had piles and piles of books, and that's all we had to do for entertainment. As a result, we all loved to read.

There was a lot that sucked about being homeschooled, but probably the coolest thing was that I never had to assimilate. I get the impression that in public school, people who are different are bullied, and that the whole thing is less about education and more about social sedimentary sorting. But, having never experienced it, I can only guess.
 
2012-02-15 02:11:47 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!:
RexTalionis: .... Does anyone even derive any usage out of calculus in their everyday life?

Yes, I do. I use it to solve differential equations to figure out how hot something is going to get because we make very large products that take days to reach thermal stability, but don't want to spend several days on every thermal test done during a project timeline. I use it to find the expected failure rates of components and subsystems. I use it to prove that something which is not measurable in our lab (say junction temperature of a semiconductor) is within a bounded and acceptable interval for all possible run conditions. I can go on and on. It's useful for personal things as well. Deciding where to put my money and looking at risk and expected rates of return. Any number of other things that would take days to list out.


Using Calculus at your engineering job is hardly considered everyday life.
 
2012-02-15 02:13:01 PM
My wife and her siblings were home schooled and had a great education. My wife was able to get into a very good university and went on to get her Masters with no problem. Of course it helped that her father was an engineer and her mother had studied to be a doctor. The unfortunate part was that she, and her siblings, had, and still have, a very hard time relating to other, non-highly educated people. They also have fairly poor people skills across the board. I've notice that in several people I've come across that are home schooled.
 
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