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(CNN)   Apple CEO Tim Cook announces plans to improve conditions at his slave shop. Wait a second, didn't he say just a week ago that nothing was wrong with them?   (cnn.com) divider line 81
    More: Fail, apples, Apple CEO, Apple Products, Foxconn  
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955 clicks; posted to Business » on 15 Feb 2012 at 12:30 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-15 03:44:45 AM  
Well written, Subby. They must be paying more these days.
 
2012-02-15 04:11:38 AM  
Tim Cook doesn't seem to be quite as good at damage control as his predecessor. It's all in the timing, Tim.
 
2012-02-15 04:16:45 AM  
None the less, it is good to see a mega-corporation respond to an 'ethical' complaint.
 
2012-02-15 07:11:57 AM  

bigpeeler: Tim Cook doesn't seem to be quite as good at damage control as his predecessor. It's all in the timing, Tim.


Or, he actually gives a shiat and is trying to work through this in a way that will foster real change. That is going to be a farking messy process.

I know, I know...but it's possible.
 
2012-02-15 09:26:19 AM  

bigpeeler: Tim Cook doesn't seem to be quite as good at damage control as his predecessor. It's all in the timing, Tim.


Uh, Steve Jobs just didn't give a shiat. Apple would release a statement saying "we know conditions have gotten worse, we're working on it" and the press would ignore the problem. Then a few months later another iPad would come out and everyone would forget about it.

Honestly, if Tim had just kept his mouth shut he would have Jobs "secret to damage control" down pat.
 
2012-02-15 11:23:10 AM  
Have you never defended yourself in the heat of the moment only to go and reassess your character when you had time to think about it?

Arguer: You never listen to me!
You: All I ever do is listen to you! YAP YAP YAP, NAG NAG NAG!
Arguer: I wouldn't have to do that if you would just pay attention!

Then later you start to think about it and you realize the only time the arguer ever nags you is when you're engrossed in your internet or video game. Then you try to make a concerted effort to pay a little more attention to them. Maybe you pause the game, or take a break from Farking.

In this world, if you're making yourself better, you're getting worse.
 
2012-02-15 11:24:22 AM  

jaylectricity: In this world, if you're NOT making yourself better, you're getting worse.


FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU

And I thought twice before checking the "post without previewing" box.
 
2012-02-15 12:43:35 PM  
Another article that leaves me wondering why we expect Apple, and only Apple, to answer for the labor practices at the largest exporter in China. I can't imagine the glee the people at Amazon feel as they watch Tim Cook roast for doing the exact same thing no one cares that they do.
 
2012-02-15 12:56:52 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Another article that leaves me wondering why we expect Apple, and only Apple, to answer for the labor practices at the largest exporter in China. I can't imagine the glee the people at Amazon feel as they watch Tim Cook roast for doing the exact same thing no one cares that they do.


Gotta start somewhere in order to address the issues in China.

Apple is on fire as a company, and if they make the changes, it is possible that more will follow due to consumer wrath
 
2012-02-15 01:05:13 PM  

jaylectricity: jaylectricity: In this world, if you're NOT making yourself better, you're getting worse.

FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU

And I thought twice before checking the "post without previewing" box.


It made sense before. I had to think a little harder to get it. Abstract.
 
2012-02-15 01:06:09 PM  
Sgygus

None the less, it is good to see a mega-corporation respond to an 'ethical' complaint.

Lip service.

Remember the iPad 3 is set to release March 7th gotta hit the PR damage control button like F5 in a jailbait thread.
 
2012-02-15 01:11:26 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Sgygus

None the less, it is good to see a mega-corporation respond to an 'ethical' complaint.

Lip service.

Remember the iPad 3 is set to release March 7th gotta hit the PR damage control button like F5 in a jailbait thread.


Didn't the iPad 2 just come out? What could they possibly have improved?
 
2012-02-15 01:11:36 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Another article that leaves me wondering why we expect Apple, and only Apple, to answer for the labor practices at the largest exporter in China. I can't imagine the glee the people at Amazon feel as they watch Tim Cook roast for doing the exact same thing no one cares that they do.


You guys keep saying it so I guess I have to too. GET RID OF THE NON-COMPETITIVE PRACTICES AND THE 30% PROFIT MARGIN AND THEN YOU'LL FINALLY HAVE A farkING ARGUMENT THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE SMUG.
 
2012-02-15 01:33:43 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Another article that leaves me wondering why we expect Apple, and only Apple, to answer for the labor practices at the largest exporter in China. I can't imagine the glee the people at Amazon feel as they watch Tim Cook roast for doing the exact same thing no one cares that they do.


Well, if they're all doing it, it must be ok, and if Apple is just like every other company they shouldn't be held to account.

It all seems sooo revolutionary.
 
2012-02-15 01:34:27 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Remember the iPad 3 is set to release March 7th


What do they plan to call it?
 
2012-02-15 01:39:55 PM  

regindyn: Didn't the iPad 2 just come out? What could they possibly have improved?


Starts with an "F".
 
2012-02-15 01:40:42 PM  

sendtodave: Random Anonymous Blackmail: Remember the iPad 3 is set to release March 7th

What do they plan to call it?


The iPad 2S.
 
2012-02-15 01:41:42 PM  
Dear god I hate Apple...
 
2012-02-15 01:47:15 PM  

Cubansaltyballs: thurstonxhowell: Another article that leaves me wondering why we expect Apple, and only Apple, to answer for the labor practices at the largest exporter in China. I can't imagine the glee the people at Amazon feel as they watch Tim Cook roast for doing the exact same thing no one cares that they do.

Well, if they're all doing it, it must be ok, and if Apple is just like every other company they shouldn't be held to account.

It all seems sooo revolutionary.


Way to dodge the point. He didn't say it was okay, he just asked why all of the blame falls on Apple.
 
2012-02-15 01:54:56 PM  
 
2012-02-15 01:59:26 PM  

sethstorm: sendtodave: Random Anonymous Blackmail: Remember the iPad 3 is set to release March 7th

What do they plan to call it?

The iPad 2S.


Heh.

But not even that. See previous thread...

Earlier this week, we noted that Chinese authorities had begun seizing iPad stocks from a small number of retailers over Apple's alleged infringement of a disputed "iPad" trademark. Apple claims that it purchased the Chinese rights to the trademark several years ago, but the original owner Proview and Chinese courts have disagreed with that assertion.
 
2012-02-15 02:03:48 PM  

regindyn: Random Anonymous Blackmail: Sgygus

None the less, it is good to see a mega-corporation respond to an 'ethical' complaint.

Lip service.

Remember the iPad 3 is set to release March 7th gotta hit the PR damage control button like F5 in a jailbait thread.

Didn't the iPad 2 just come out? What could they possibly have improved?


Added one more feature that should have been in version 1?
 
2012-02-15 02:06:14 PM  

GoodyearPimp: You guys keep saying it so I guess I have to too. GET RID OF THE NON-COMPETITIVE PRACTICES AND THE 30% PROFIT MARGIN AND THEN YOU'LL FINALLY HAVE A farkING ARGUMENT THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE SMUG.


You'll have to excuse me, I haven't huffed nearly enough glue to understand what you're talking about.

Cubansaltyballs: Well, if they're all doing it, it must be ok, and if Apple is just like every other company they shouldn't be held to account.


That's an interesting take on my point that we should also hold any other companies involved, especially companies like Amazon that compete directly with Apple, accountable. Interesting in that it's even less related to what I said than the scribblings of all-caps boy up there.
 
2012-02-15 02:23:12 PM  
well they should if they are only paying 13% in taxes ...
 
2012-02-15 02:31:36 PM  
So if Cook announces that they're trying to improve things, Subby somehow finds that to be wrong. Of course, if he didn't do anything, that would be wrong too. Sounds like you're going to criticize whatever Apple does. Which makes you a brainwashed iHater or a paid douchebag shill.
 
2012-02-15 02:35:11 PM  
ಠ_ಠ
 
2012-02-15 02:35:20 PM  

cman: Gotta start somewhere in order to address the issues in China.


What happens if Foxxconn turns out to be first class, and the scare stories coming out are actually just pulling a FoxNews for ad sales? It's not like it will be easy to make another argument of "slave labor in China" if this turns out to be the case.
 
2012-02-15 02:40:16 PM  

LasersHurt: Cubansaltyballs: thurstonxhowell: Another article that leaves me wondering why we expect Apple, and only Apple, to answer for the labor practices at the largest exporter in China. I can't imagine the glee the people at Amazon feel as they watch Tim Cook roast for doing the exact same thing no one cares that they do.

Well, if they're all doing it, it must be ok, and if Apple is just like every other company they shouldn't be held to account.

It all seems sooo revolutionary.

Way to dodge the point. He didn't say it was okay, he just asked why all of the blame falls on Apple.


Because Apple's marketing push was, of course, that they're "different." The anti-"Big Brother", anti-establishment, "think differently" company, the one that used ethical distance as an advertising vector, is now protesting because we're not treating them the same as everyone else.

The blame for Apple's exploitation of cheap labor in China falls squarely, and solely, on Apple. Someone needs to remind them to remove the beam in their own eye before whining about the mote in the eyes of others, lest their whining turn public opinion against them.
 
2012-02-15 02:41:29 PM  

bingethinker: So if Cook announces that they're trying to improve things, Subby somehow finds that to be wrong. Of course, if he didn't do anything, that would be wrong too. Sounds like you're going to criticize whatever Apple does. Which makes you a brainwashed iHater or a paid douchebag shill.


Yeah subby sure is a jerk for not believing what some 1 percenter is saying.

Why you'd have to be crazy not to trust our corporate masters.

"Rich folks always want whats best for everyone" - Lenny
 
2012-02-15 02:44:16 PM  

bingethinker: So if Cook announces that they're trying to improve things, Subby somehow finds that to be wrong. Of course, if he didn't do anything, that would be wrong too. Sounds like you're going to criticize whatever Apple does. Which makes you a brainwashed iHater or a paid douchebag shill.


FWIW, the iHaters are generally made up of FoxNews junkies that wouldn't know reality if it hit them in the coont. Does Apple screw up? Of course. Are they the devil? No. Do I wish anyone that works for Apple to die? No. Same goes for Google. They're just companies.
 
2012-02-15 02:47:54 PM  

saintstryfe: Apple iPad plant conditions better than the norm: agency
(new window)


What does that mean? Do they get a lunch break or something? We are talking about CHina, land of the sweatshops
 
2012-02-15 02:48:59 PM  

digistil: cman: Gotta start somewhere in order to address the issues in China.

What happens if Foxxconn turns out to be first class, and the scare stories coming out are actually just pulling a FoxNews for ad sales? It's not like it will be easy to make another argument of "slave labor in China" if this turns out to be the case.


Yeah and what if pigs could fly.

Investigations Reveal Long Trail of Abuses at Apple Suppliers

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/01/27/investigations-revea l -long-trail-of-abuses-at-apple-suppliers.html
 
2012-02-15 02:51:38 PM  

cman: saintstryfe: Apple iPad plant conditions better than the norm: agency
(new window)

What does that mean? Do they get a lunch break or something? We are talking about CHina, land of the sweatshops


It's probably as good a place as an unskilled migrate laborer could expect to work.
 
2012-02-15 02:55:00 PM  

sendtodave: cman: saintstryfe: Apple iPad plant conditions better than the norm: agency
(new window)

What does that mean? Do they get a lunch break or something? We are talking about CHina, land of the sweatshops

It's probably as good a place as an unskilled migrate laborer could expect to work.


Migrant laborer? Did someone move to China from another country so they could get a sweet slave-labor manufacturing job?
 
2012-02-15 03:01:27 PM  

GreenAdder: sendtodave: It's probably as good a place as an unskilled migrate laborer could expect to work.

Migrant laborer? Did someone move to China from another country so they could get a sweet slave-labor manufacturing job?


Hukou system. People coming from the villages to the cities to work might as well be from another country. Or Mars.

Rural China is China's Mexico.
 
2012-02-15 03:01:58 PM  

FormlessOne: The blame for Apple's exploitation of cheap labor in China falls squarely, and solely, on Apple. Someone needs to remind them to remove the beam in their own eye before whining about the mote in the eyes of others, lest their whining turn public opinion against the


Great rant, it's just too bad that you're responding to something I said and pretending that Apple said it.

Y'see that article up there? That's what Tim Cook had to say. Down here in the comments, we're just regular old plebes like you. You probably should have been able to figure that out the first time your words started showing up.
 
2012-02-15 03:19:58 PM  

thurstonxhowell: That's an interesting take on my point that we should also hold any other companies involved, especially companies like Amazon that compete directly with Apple, accountable. Interesting in that it's even less related to what I said than the scribblings of all-caps boy up there.


Well, Apple is the largest, so they tend to be the focal point. That's how these things go. They also brag about how big and revolutionary they are, so they kind of invited themselves to be first.

Sort of like, if there was a major problem with the labor practices of the fast-food industry, McDonald's would get it first and worst, then Burger King, then Applebees, and so on. If there was a major problem with automobile production, GM and Ford would get it first, then Chrysler and so on.

If you're the biggest player in an industry with major problems, you are the first target because you are likely the biggest offender. By and large, more iPhones were built with slave labor in sh*t conditions than all the Kindles and Dell laptops combined... so yes, they are easily the largest beneficiary and largest offender. Therefore, they go first.


This whole "well, if you're gonna target Apple, than you need to spread the blame equally" line isn't going to divert attention from Apple, it's going to focus it more narrowly on them. It's mostly a diversion and a re-take on "both sides are bad, so vote Republican." Man up already, you're the biggest. When it comes to cracking down on labor practices, you eat the biggest sh*t sandwich, and you have to eat it first.
 
2012-02-15 03:21:56 PM  

jaylectricity: jaylectricity: In this world, if you're NOT making yourself better, you're getting worse.

FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU

And I thought twice before checking the "post without previewing" box.


The first way worked too - if you admit you're working on it, all of a sudden you're evil.
 
2012-02-15 03:23:45 PM  

LasersHurt: Way to dodge the point. He didn't say it was okay, he just asked why all of the blame falls on Apple.


Because they are the biggest company, the biggest offender. That's how it goes. They go first.

Apple's not going to dodge this by trying to divert attention. They have to suck it up and fix the problem. If they don't, the focus will never change from them.

Trying to blame the industry is not an excuse for doing nothing. Fix it or own it.
 
2012-02-15 03:30:21 PM  

Cubansaltyballs: LasersHurt: Way to dodge the point. He didn't say it was okay, he just asked why all of the blame falls on Apple.

Because they are the biggest company, the biggest offender. That's how it goes. They go first.

Apple's not going to dodge this by trying to divert attention. They have to suck it up and fix the problem. If they don't, the focus will never change from them.

Trying to blame the industry is not an excuse for doing nothing. Fix it or own it.


No, that's correct. It's just feels a little wrong for the conversation to go:

"You're using a labor system that includes abuses of the employees."
"Okay, we'll do a comprehensive review and try to eliminate and alter these abuses."
"Boo, hiss, Apple, Apple specifically, for taking part in this labor system!"

With never a mention of "but good on them for responding to pressure, I hope this really helps those people." It's the constant assumption of the worst in everything. Everyone's so jaded, and for some reason peoples' frustrations with working conditions in developing countries is focused squarely on Apple when the mood suits them.
 
2012-02-15 03:39:38 PM  
Subby, "improve" and "nothing wrong" are not mutually exclusive.
 
2012-02-15 03:40:19 PM  

Cubansaltyballs: Because they are the biggest company, the biggest offender. That's how it goes. They go first.


NotSureIfSerious.jpg
 
2012-02-15 03:42:32 PM  

Cubansaltyballs: Sort of like, if there was a major problem with the labor practices of the fast-food industry, McDonald's would get it first and worst, then Burger King, then Applebees, and so on. If there was a major problem with automobile production, GM and Ford would get it first, then Chrysler and so on.


If there was a problem with the fast food industry that I cared about, and Wendy's was part of the problem, but I chose to attack McDonald's only, it would be kind of silly because I only actually eat at Wendy's.

I already don't buy Apple's overpriced stuff, but I've thought about getting a Kindle. Why should I focus my rage on a vendor who I wasn't supporting anyway? Wouldn't it be more productive if I realize that the Kindle is part of the problem, too?

Anyway, have fun berating Apple. I bet you're typing this up on a Dell. I know I am.
 
2012-02-15 03:50:46 PM  
I'm loving my near-$500 stock price. Was close to $510 yesterday. Keep up the good work, slaves.
 
2012-02-15 03:55:50 PM  

LasersHurt: With never a mention of "but good on them for responding to pressure, I hope this really helps those people." It's the constant assumption of the worst in everything. Everyone's so jaded, and for some reason peoples' frustrations with working conditions in developing countries is focused squarely on Apple when the mood suits them.


So, basically Apple should get credit for being the biggest offender of slave labor because they were the first one pressured into doing something about it?
 
2012-02-15 03:57:28 PM  

Cubansaltyballs: Trying to blame the industry is not an excuse for doing nothing. Fix it or own it.


Apple apparently already provides relatively good working environment. They're looking into abuse cases. Seems like they're doing what they can.

Unless by "fixing it," you mean they should abandon the practice of using cheap migrant labor. If so, let me laugh even harder.

The migrants doing better working in sweatshops than they would in their villages. Sending money back home.

The same reason why Mexicans pick your fruits and vegetables.
 
2012-02-15 03:58:55 PM  

thurstonxhowell: If there was a problem with the fast food industry that I cared about, and Wendy's was part of the problem, but I chose to attack McDonald's only, it would be kind of silly because I only actually eat at Wendy's.


Yeah, everyone needs to be held accountable, but this whole attitude that NO ONE can go after Apple without going after EVERYONE else is a biatchildish. It won't work.

It comes off as a diversion. "Hey!! Why are you attacking us? We're not the only one doing it!!! If you're going to attack us, you have to attack everyone!!!"

While that's true, they are also the biggest, so they are going to get the bulk of the attention. Is it fair? No idea. Is it how it usually goes? Yes.
 
2012-02-15 04:00:05 PM  

Cubansaltyballs: LasersHurt: With never a mention of "but good on them for responding to pressure, I hope this really helps those people." It's the constant assumption of the worst in everything. Everyone's so jaded, and for some reason peoples' frustrations with working conditions in developing countries is focused squarely on Apple when the mood suits them.

So, basically Apple should get credit for being the biggest offender of slave labor because they were the first one pressured into doing something about it?


I want you to look up the words "slave labor" and see how loose you're being with them. And they should get some credit for doing something about it at all.
 
2012-02-15 04:00:21 PM  
Nothing can be improved upon. That's a fact.

/sarcasm
 
2012-02-15 04:01:35 PM  

Cubansaltyballs: It comes off as a diversion. "Hey!! Why are you attacking us? We're not the only one doing it!!! If you're going to attack us, you have to attack everyone!!!"


Apple didn't say that, genius. That's a badly paraphrased version of what I said. Me. Down here. You can tell because it's not in the article. Or any other article. Just down here. With my name right above it. Just like it has my name above it last time I explained it to one of you morons.

This is not farking rocket surgery.
 
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