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(Think Progress)   In keeping with the Right's War on Women, FoxNews pundit advocates the raping of female members of the military, saying "What did they expect?"   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 1120
    More: Obvious, Fox News, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, pundits  
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11104 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Feb 2012 at 4:24 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-14 01:03:42 AM

Popular Opinion: i had to spend the night in the felony tank after beating somebody to a pulp for trying to get with a passed out girl.

/csb


Actually, that should be both women and men, as male rape victims are often taken advatage of like that.
 
2012-02-14 01:05:09 AM

Popular Opinion: i had to spend the night in the felony tank after beating somebody to a pulp for trying to get with a passed out girl.

/csb


I hope the judge shook your hand, wiped your record clean, and sent you home no worse for wear.
 
2012-02-14 01:05:20 AM

skepticultist: Of course not. They are merely the largest portion of rapes affecting adult women. Or more accurately, the largest portion of rapes affecting adult women affect women who act exactly like women who use alcohol as a social lubricant to facilitate sex without the intention to facilitate sex. The vast majority of rapes are better described as incidents of child molestation, which is an entirely different issue which education will do nothing to prevent.


You make too many assumptions. Where is your evidence for... ANY of this?

I've never had sex with a drunk woman.

I get the feeling that sentence would be accurate if the last 4 words were dropped or if the 4 words "who gave her consent" were added to it.

You are simply living in denial of the reality of how young people behave. You're right that many people manage to have lots of enjoyable, consensual, amazing sex while sober. It is also true that many people enjoy going to parties and bars and getting loaded before having sex with strangers. It is also true that 80% of rapes where the victim is female and between the ages of 16 and 24 involve alcohol, and occur in what can best be described as a "party atmosphere."

So having drinks = wanting to have sex while drunk = it's not rape when she's drunk. Got it. Remind me if we're ever at a party together to have the cops on speed dial. You're a danger to humanity if you actually believe the crap you post.

You claimed that men having sex with women who are drunk is immoral and rape.

Did I? Where? If the woman is too drunk to give consent, yes. But in all instances, as a blanket statement? No, but it's better to be cautious in any circumstances where there's ambiguity.

If that is true then ipso facto many women apparently desire to be raped, because many women are using alcohol as a means of facilitating casual sexual encounters.

I think you're equating women wanting to drink with women drinking as a means to facilitate casual sex. Where is your evidence for that begged question? Also, how much of this is you just wanting to use the phrase "ipso facto" in context to sound smart?
 
2012-02-14 01:07:23 AM
Ugh, pardon typos. It's late, I'm on a mobile.
 
2012-02-14 01:09:24 AM
If a surfer finds a spot with awesome waves but is a 100% confirmed haven for great white sharks, is told every Friday during a safety brief not to swim in or try to surf in those waters, yet, that surfer ignored the warnings and the fact that shark attacks are an epidemic in those waters and goes surfing where he was told not to, at what point does that surfer shoulder some responsibility for being attack and what is the percentage of responsibility? The shark is 100% responsible for its actions. I get that. But, my question is, how responsible is the surfer for his actions of going into waters in which he knows he may or may not be attacked?
 
2012-02-14 01:09:34 AM
you'd think 900 posts could be summed up with 'silly twunt says silly things', but...somehow, that isn't the case.

probably just my accidental sobriety popping up to have noticed at all, but...yah. it's lost on me what is up for debate with this one.
 
2012-02-14 01:09:59 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: And at the same time the Republicans in the US Senate are opposing the extension of the "Violence against Women Act"


turns out GOP is ok with child rape, too
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/17/house-republicans-block-chil d -marriage-prevention-act_n_798382.html
 
2012-02-14 01:10:34 AM

sgtbarthel: If a surfer finds a spot with awesome waves but is a 100% confirmed haven for great white sharks, is told every Friday during a safety brief not to swim in or try to surf in those waters, yet, that surfer ignored the warnings and the fact that shark attacks are an epidemic in those waters and goes surfing where he was told not to, at what point does that surfer shoulder some responsibility for being attack and what is the percentage of responsibility? The shark is 100% responsible for its actions. I get that. But, my question is, how responsible is the surfer for his actions of going into waters in which he knows he may or may not be attacked?


that depends - in the stretched analogy, do the sharks have freaking laser beams?
 
2012-02-14 01:10:38 AM

KiplingKat872: This is not about having casual sexual relationships, this is about choice. When your "sexual liberation" includes riding roughshod over the free will of others, that's just being a dick. Possibly a rapist dick.


I can't even begin to imagine what it is you think I'm saying, but you're clearly misinterpreting my comments.

But you don't want boys to see women as human beings and be responsible for their own sexual behavior. As far as you are concerned, as soon as alcohol touches a woman's lips, she's asking for it.

Not at all. That is pure fabrication on your part. I have said nothing of the sort.

What I am saying is that some significant portion of women make a choice to drink alcohol as a means of lowering their inhibitions so that they can engage in casual sex. At the same time some women make a choice to drink alcohol for some other reasons (let's assume out of a desire to fit in with their peer group), which results in lowered inhibitions, which results in them engaging in sexual activity with men that they did not intend to engage in when sober.

If a man engages in sex with a woman in the first class (those who intentionally drink to lower their inhibitions to facilitate sex) then that is not rape. If a man engages in sex with a woman in the second class, then that may or may not be rape depending on how she perceives his actions when she sobers up.
 
2012-02-14 01:14:28 AM

Genevieve Marie: Popular Opinion: i had to spend the night in the felony tank after beating somebody to a pulp for trying to get with a passed out girl.

/csb

I hope the judge shook your hand, wiped your record clean, and sent you home no worse for wear.


i was released without charges after the DA's office had a chance to talk to potential witnesses.
 
2012-02-14 01:14:43 AM
Holy Aquabuddha, she's one step away from putting women in burqas FREEDOM DRESSES
 
2012-02-14 01:16:13 AM

Popular Opinion: Genevieve Marie: Popular Opinion: i had to spend the night in the felony tank after beating somebody to a pulp for trying to get with a passed out girl.

/csb

I hope the judge shook your hand, wiped your record clean, and sent you home no worse for wear.

i was released without charges after the DA's office had a chance to talk to potential witnesses.


Excellent.
 
2012-02-14 01:17:50 AM

lilplatinum: KiplingKat872: Because rape is about control. Sex is just the means by which the rapist dominates and degrades their victim.

Well if so, Germany being a far more controlling society (and one where gender discrimination is quite advanced, still many people believe a womans place is "kinder, küche, kirche" - "children, kitchen, church") it makes me curious as to why the numbers here are so low.


See the for all this discussion of "drunken sex" the drunken college kid who got out of controll is the minority of rapists. Most rapists are predators and usually are sober while looking for a vulnerable victim.

One friend of mine said that when he was in college, one of the guys in his dorm would cruise the halls after closing time, looking for dorm rooms where the girl had passed out drunk and forgotten to lock the door.


Sick fark. Which studies are you going to that say the prevelence of serial predators? Everything I saw cited generally says its more acquaintance based and in almost half of all instances alcohol use by both parties was evidenced. I'm not calling you out as you have likely researched more on it than myself, just curious.


Sorry, I shouldn't have snapped. But as someone who claims to be interested in the causes of rape, looking at the psycology of the act and the perpetrator should be the first step.

Most rape is not about sex. In fact I am pretty sure (will check tomorrow) it is common for the rapist to not ejaculate. It is about using the ultimate physical intimacy, something we usually have complete controll over, to dominate and controll by turning another person into an object to be used.
 
2012-02-14 01:19:08 AM

sgtbarthel: If a surfer finds a spot with awesome waves but is a 100% confirmed haven for great white sharks, is told every Friday during a safety brief not to swim in or try to surf in those waters, yet, that surfer ignored the warnings and the fact that shark attacks are an epidemic in those waters and goes surfing where he was told not to, at what point does that surfer shoulder some responsibility for being attack and what is the percentage of responsibility? The shark is 100% responsible for its actions. I get that. But, my question is, how responsible is the surfer for his actions of going into waters in which he knows he may or may not be attacked?


i'd say he is totally responsible.

the question here would be, if he insists on surfing in waters with some risk of shark attack, to what limit should the government spend money and/or resources to prevent a shark attack, catch offending sharks, (and treat victims)?

or should the government post no surfing signs and be done with it?
 
2012-02-14 01:20:12 AM

sgtbarthel: If a surfer finds a spot with awesome waves but is a 100% confirmed haven for great white sharks, is told every Friday during a safety brief not to swim in or try to surf in those waters, yet, that surfer ignored the warnings and the fact that shark attacks are an epidemic in those waters and goes surfing where he was told not to, at what point does that surfer shoulder some responsibility for being attack and what is the percentage of responsibility? The shark is 100% responsible for its actions. I get that. But, my question is, how responsible is the surfer for his actions of going into waters in which he knows he may or may not be attacked?


The analogy fails because you can't convince a shark not to bite things if it's hungry/curious. You can convince a person not to take advantage of a another person physically or chemically to satisfy a sexual urge.
 
2012-02-14 01:21:03 AM

sgtbarthel: If a surfer finds a spot with awesome waves but is a 100% confirmed haven for great white sharks, is told every Friday during a safety brief not to swim in or try to surf in those waters, yet, that surfer ignored the warnings and the fact that shark attacks are an epidemic in those waters and goes surfing where he was told not to, at what point does that surfer shoulder some responsibility for being attack and what is the percentage of responsibility? The shark is 100% responsible for its actions. I get that. But, my question is, how responsible is the surfer for his actions of going into waters in which he knows he may or may not be attacked?


False anology as the shark is acting on instinct to feed itself.

A human being makes the concious choice to sexually assault someone.

Unless, like the bint in this article, you are claiming all men are rapists who cannot controll themselves.
 
2012-02-14 01:29:04 AM

Kome: The analogy fails because you can't convince a shark not to bite things if it's hungry/curious. You can convince a person not to take advantage of a another person physically or chemically to satisfy a sexual urge.


KiplingKat872: False anology as the shark is acting on instinct to feed itself.

A human being makes the concious choice to sexually assault someone.

Unless, like the bint in this article, you are claiming all men are rapists who cannot controll themselves.


i don't believe sgtbarthel's analogy was meant to compare rapists and sharks. it was more about the surfer.

the fact is, women in the military must accept some risk, even if it only because some f*cking distgusting a-hole that should-not-wear-a-uniform pussbucket rapist slipped through the extensive and hard to pass mental screening requirements to join the armed forces.

should women be able to enlist and expect no risk? of farking course they should!
is that realistic? nope.
 
2012-02-14 01:29:27 AM

Kome: skepticultist: Of course not. They are merely the largest portion of rapes affecting adult women. Or more accurately, the largest portion of rapes affecting adult women affect women who act exactly like women who use alcohol as a social lubricant to facilitate sex without the intention to facilitate sex. The vast majority of rapes are better described as incidents of child molestation, which is an entirely different issue which education will do nothing to prevent.

You make too many assumptions. Where is your evidence for... ANY of this?


Bureau of Justice crime statistics.

I've never had sex with a drunk woman.

I get the feeling that sentence would be accurate if the last 4 words were dropped or if the 4 words "who gave her consent" were added to it.


That's because you're a hateful person who makes indefensible personal attacks. It's a common tactic of ideologues of your ilk. Rather than argue the point, you turn the conversation into a vicious personal assault where you force me to defend myself for your evidence free accusations of being a rapists.

My sexual history is irrelevant to this discussion. Stop trying to make it relevant.

So having drinks = wanting to have sex while drunk = it's not rape when she's drunk. Got it. Remind me if we're ever at a party together to have the cops on speed dial. You're a danger to humanity if you actually believe the crap you post.

Are you denying that some women use alcohol to facilitate casual sexual encounters? Again, I point you towards Karen Owen's detailed accounting of her own sexual history, where she makes it explicitly clear that she drinks to lower her inhibitions to facilitate having sex.

This is why I made the assertion that you are demanding that we believe that women are intentionally facilitating their own rapes in pursuit of sexual pleasure. Because if every time a woman has sex while drunk it is rape, then we must agree that Karen Owen spent her college years intentionally and deliberately seeking out men to rape her. And had a lot of fun doing it.

I think that is a ridiculous thing to assert.

You claimed that men having sex with women who are drunk is immoral and rape.

Did I? Where? If the woman is too drunk to give consent, yes. But in all instances, as a blanket statement? No, but it's better to be cautious in any circumstances where there's ambiguity.


Which is precisely why I don't have sex with drunk women. The point I am making is that not all men will exercise such caution, especially when those men are aware that women like Karen Owen exist. Which brings us back to the larger issue: Women need to be educated about this. Women need to understand that by using alcohol to facilitate casual sexual encounters, they are helping to create and perpetuate a culture that results in other women getting raped.

It's easy for you to demand that men "exercise caution" and simply abstain from sex with women who have been drinking. But it is not easy for men to comply with such a directive when the women in their own peer group are using alcohol to facilitate casual sexual encounters, because you are asking men to choose a path that will result in a significantly diminished sex life. Some men, such as myself, are willing to accept that consequences. But I have always been more interested in D&D and Warhammer than sex, and have a very low sex drive that makes abstaining from sex an easy decision. Most men do not, and since those men know that the women most likely to provide them with the casual sexual encounters they desire are the women who are drinking to lower their own inhibitions, those men will embrace the worldview tacitly being promoted by those women's actions.

I think you're equating women wanting to drink with women drinking as a means to facilitate casual sex. Where is your evidence for that begged question? Also, how much of this is you just wanting to use the phrase "ipso facto" in context to sound smart?

I'm not equating the two at all. I am merely asserting that the second type of woman exists, and so long as she exists, some men will assume that any women they meet who is drunk and flirtatious is such a woman.
 
2012-02-14 01:29:39 AM

skepticultist: KiplingKat872: This is not about having casual sexual relationships, this is about choice. When your "sexual liberation" includes riding roughshod over the free will of others, that's just being a dick. Possibly a rapist dick.

I can't even begin to imagine what it is you think I'm saying, but you're clearly misinterpreting my comments.

But you don't want boys to see women as human beings and be responsible for their own sexual behavior. As far as you are concerned, as soon as alcohol touches a woman's lips, she's asking for it.

Not at all. That is pure fabrication on your part. I have said nothing of the sort.

What I am saying is that some significant portion of women make a choice to drink alcohol as a means of lowering their inhibitions so that they can engage in casual sex. At the same time some women make a choice to drink alcohol for some other reasons (let's assume out of a desire to fit in with their peer group), which results in lowered inhibitions, which results in them engaging in sexual activity with men that they did not intend to engage in when sober.

If a man engages in sex with a woman in the first class (those who intentionally drink to lower their inhibitions to facilitate sex) then that is not rape. If a man engages in sex with a woman in the second class, then that may or may not be rape depending on how she perceives his actions when she sobers up.


You know, sometimes women drink because they enjoy it. Do you think we're all teenagers or something? Seriously, you're talking about behavior most of us leave behind when we graduate college.

Women who need to get drunk to have casual sex have some pretty big issues with their lifestyle choices.

In any case, if the woman is so drunk she can't walk straight, then to be on the safe side buy her a soda and wait for her to sober up some before going home with her.
 
2012-02-14 01:32:48 AM

Popular Opinion: Kome: The analogy fails because you can't convince a shark not to bite things if it's hungry/curious. You can convince a person not to take advantage of a another person physically or chemically to satisfy a sexual urge.

KiplingKat872: False anology as the shark is acting on instinct to feed itself.

A human being makes the concious choice to sexually assault someone.

Unless, like the bint in this article, you are claiming all men are rapists who cannot controll themselves.

i don't believe sgtbarthel's analogy was meant to compare rapists and sharks. it was more about the surfer.

the fact is, women in the military must accept some risk, even if it only because some f*cking distgusting a-hole that should-not-wear-a-uniform pussbucket rapist slipped through the extensive and hard to pass mental screening requirements to join the armed forces.

should women be able to enlist and expect no risk? of farking course they should!
is that realistic? nope.


Bullshiat. Complete and utter bullshiat placing the blame on the victim for the rapists *choice* or you are saying all servicemen are potential rapists.
 
2012-02-14 01:32:49 AM

Popular Opinion: i don't believe sgtbarthel's analogy was meant to compare rapists and sharks. it was more about the surfer.

the fact is, women in the military must accept some risk, even if it only because some f*cking distgusting a-hole that should-not-wear-a-uniform pussbucket rapist slipped through the extensive and hard to pass mental screening requirements to join the armed forces.


Saying that women face a heightened risk of rape is realistic.

Saying that it should mean that we avoid taking jobs because we're afraid of being raped... that's unrealistic. That's putting the burden on us to an absurd degree.

That's what's wrong with the shark/swimmer analogy (besides the fact that it compares men to sharks).

The swimmer can just choose to not go swimming and it won't really affect his life that much. But should women really have to plan their lives around rape prevention? Should we have to avoid certain career paths because we're afraid of rape?
 
2012-02-14 01:34:29 AM
Weird, weird obsession with Karen Owen. And man, the idea that "ZOMG! THIS WOMAN IS THE REASON OTHER WOMEN GET RAPED" is just...

Wow.
 
2012-02-14 01:34:57 AM

KiplingKat872: sgtbarthel: If a surfer finds a spot with awesome waves but is a 100% confirmed haven for great white sharks, is told every Friday during a safety brief not to swim in or try to surf in those waters, yet, that surfer ignored the warnings and the fact that shark attacks are an epidemic in those waters and goes surfing where he was told not to, at what point does that surfer shoulder some responsibility for being attack and what is the percentage of responsibility? The shark is 100% responsible for its actions. I get that. But, my question is, how responsible is the surfer for his actions of going into waters in which he knows he may or may not be attacked?

False anology as the shark is acting on instinct to feed itself.

A human being makes the concious choice to sexually assault someone.

Unless, like the bint in this article, you are claiming all men are rapists who cannot controll themselves.

Unlike rapists though a shark has two penises...

/got nothing
 
2012-02-14 01:34:59 AM

Kome: sgtbarthel: If a surfer finds a spot with awesome waves but is a 100% confirmed haven for great white sharks, is told every Friday during a safety brief not to swim in or try to surf in those waters, yet, that surfer ignored the warnings and the fact that shark attacks are an epidemic in those waters and goes surfing where he was told not to, at what point does that surfer shoulder some responsibility for being attack and what is the percentage of responsibility? The shark is 100% responsible for its actions. I get that. But, my question is, how responsible is the surfer for his actions of going into waters in which he knows he may or may not be attacked?

The analogy fails because you can't convince a shark not to bite things if it's hungry/curious. You can convince a person not to take advantage of a another person physically or chemically to satisfy a sexual urge.


Unless of course that person is sociopathic, which most rapists are.

The reality is that men who rape fall into two broad categories: Men who wrongly believed they had consent when they didn't, and thus committed rape without the intent to rape, and men who knew they did not have consent and intentionally committed rape.

Education men will have some mitigating effect on the first group of men, though mistakes will still be made. Education will have no effect on the second group because they don't farking care. Often enough they are getting off on the very wrongness of the deed.
 
2012-02-14 01:36:21 AM
We're gonna need a bigger analogy.
 
2012-02-14 01:37:11 AM
Has it occurred to anyone that men that are likely to rape female soldiers are also more likely to rape innocent civilians in the places they are "bringing freedom and democracy to?" Shouldn't we be glad that these women are able to bring these problems to light so we can reevaluate the military's training and mental health care?

Bah. Who am I trying to kid? Time to start feeding them all salt peter again.
 
2012-02-14 01:38:49 AM
mamaliberty.files.wordpress.com

I'll just leave this here. Looks like a few people came down from their tree house to post.
 
2012-02-14 01:40:28 AM
Just something I felt I had to add...I had a temp job working at a college bookstore many years ago. It wasn't long before I spotted a gothy girl who kept coming in and looking at me. I engaged her in conversation on the quad, and she was pleasant to talk to. She showed me some "art photos" of her topless, and asked if I liked them I admitted I did, because she really was very attractive.

After several conversations, she invited me over to her place, and we chatted about things for awhile, and she produced a joint, which we shared. We both became a bit randy, and started into things. Before it became irrevocable, I said "look, are you really sure you want to do this? We don't have to, and if you want to stop right now, we'll stop.". She said "no, I want to go on. Please." So we did. Both of us were lucid.

A called her a few days later, ready to apologize for not calling sooner. Without making any direct accusations, she made it very clear that her next paper was going to be on the topic of "acquaintance rape". The implication was understood, and I vowed never to put myself in that situation ever again. I made myself vulnerable, and I came very close to being burned for behaving in a way I thought appropriate and respectful. Never again under the influence of anything, neither she, I nor both of us.
 
2012-02-14 01:41:17 AM
punctuation malfunction...sorry.
 
2012-02-14 01:42:36 AM

skepticultist: Kome: sgtbarthel: If a surfer finds a spot with awesome waves but is a 100% confirmed haven for great white sharks, is told every Friday during a safety brief not to swim in or try to surf in those waters, yet, that surfer ignored the warnings and the fact that shark attacks are an epidemic in those waters and goes surfing where he was told not to, at what point does that surfer shoulder some responsibility for being attack and what is the percentage of responsibility? The shark is 100% responsible for its actions. I get that. But, my question is, how responsible is the surfer for his actions of going into waters in which he knows he may or may not be attacked?

The analogy fails because you can't convince a shark not to bite things if it's hungry/curious. You can convince a person not to take advantage of a another person physically or chemically to satisfy a sexual urge.

Unless of course that person is sociopathic, which most rapists are.

The reality is that men who rape fall into two broad categories: Men who wrongly believed they had consent when they didn't, and thus committed rape without the intent to rape, and men who knew they did not have consent and intentionally committed rape.

Education men will have some mitigating effect on the first group of men, though mistakes will still be made. Education will have no effect on the second group because they don't farking care. Often enough they are getting off on the very wrongness of the deed.


So? They still have a choice, and they bear the resposibility for that choice.

Unlike the shark, who is just eating.
 
2012-02-14 01:42:54 AM

buckler: I made myself vulnerable, and I came very close to being burned


since it was her joint, i'd say you've been raped.

i'm available for counseling and healing sessions, but...i'm not sharing my joints.
 
2012-02-14 01:44:00 AM

KiplingKat872: You know, sometimes women drink because they enjoy it. Do you think we're all teenagers or something? Seriously, you're talking about behavior most of us leave behind when we graduate college.


Yes, and after you graduate college the chances that you'll be raped drop so dramatically its rather stunning. The chances of a woman over the age of 25 being raped are practically nil, and over 30 its more likely she'll win the lotto or be struck by lightning. Which isn't to say it doesn't happen, but the reality is that the group of "women" most likely to be raped are girls under the age of 16, and the second most likely group to be raped are girls between the ages of 16 and 24.

So no, I don't think you're all "teenagers," but I am aware that most adult rape victims are college-aged young adults.

There isn't anything older women can do to protect themselves from rape specifically, since older women who are raped are likely to be the victims of deliberate sexual predators. There's really nothing to be gained from trying to protect oneself from such predators, much like there's no compelling reason to take active steps to protect yourself from serial killers. The chances you'll meet one are too slim to justify any deliberate action.

Women who need to get drunk to have casual sex have some pretty big issues with their lifestyle choices.

Yay for slut-shaming!

In any case, if the woman is so drunk she can't walk straight, then to be on the safe side buy her a soda and wait for her to sober up some before going home with her.

Good advice, but it can be hard for a man who is drunk and can't walk straight himself to effectively judge the level of inebriation of another person, especially if she's slobbering all over him and telling him how much she wants to fark his brains out.
 
2012-02-14 01:46:11 AM

sgtbarthel: If a surfer finds a spot with awesome waves but is a 100% confirmed haven for great white sharks, is told every Friday during a safety brief not to swim in or try to surf in those waters, yet, that surfer ignored the warnings and the fact that shark attacks are an epidemic in those waters and goes surfing where he was told not to, at what point does that surfer shoulder some responsibility for being attack and what is the percentage of responsibility? The shark is 100% responsible for its actions. I get that. But, my question is, how responsible is the surfer for his actions of going into waters in which he knows he may or may not be attacked?


You obviously know nothing about rape, and you should feel ashamed for exposing your ignorance so proudly.

Rather than continue to rant, I'm just going to post a picture.

25.media.tumblr.com

If more people pictured this when they thought of a "rape victim", there'd be a lot fewer assholes making "helpful suggestions" about how women could avoid getting raped.
 
2012-02-14 01:47:10 AM

KiplingKat872: Popular Opinion: Kome: The analogy fails because you can't convince a shark not to bite things if it's hungry/curious. You can convince a person not to take advantage of a another person physically or chemically to satisfy a sexual urge.

KiplingKat872: False anology as the shark is acting on instinct to feed itself.

A human being makes the concious choice to sexually assault someone.

Unless, like the bint in this article, you are claiming all men are rapists who cannot controll themselves.

i don't believe sgtbarthel's analogy was meant to compare rapists and sharks. it was more about the surfer.

the fact is, women in the military must accept some risk, even if it only because some f*cking distgusting a-hole that should-not-wear-a-uniform pussbucket rapist slipped through the extensive and hard to pass mental screening requirements to join the armed forces.

should women be able to enlist and expect no risk? of farking course they should!
is that realistic? nope.

Bullshiat. Complete and utter bullshiat placing the blame on the victim for the rapists *choice* or you are saying all servicemen are potential rapists.


i'm not blaming the victim.

i am just saying that to expect absolutely zero sexual assaults among the hundreds of thousands of enlisted is not realistic. we don't live in that perfect world (yet).
 
2012-02-14 01:47:15 AM

KiplingKat872: So? They still have a choice, and they bear the resposibility for that choice.

Unlike the shark, who is just eating.


I'm not convinced that sociopaths do have a choice. That is precisely what makes them so dangerous, I think. Without a typical human conscience, the ability to make meaningful choices may not exist.

You forgive the shark for acting on its instincts because you recognize that the shark has no conscience. If a sociopath has no conscience, then isn't the sociopath no different than the shark? A creature driven entirely by appetites, unable to control its own actions?
 
2012-02-14 01:49:37 AM

buckler: Just something I felt I had to add...I had a temp job working at a college bookstore many years ago. It wasn't long before I spotted a gothy girl who kept coming in and looking at me. I engaged her in conversation on the quad, and she was pleasant to talk to. She showed me some "art photos" of her topless, and asked if I liked them I admitted I did, because she really was very attractive.

After several conversations, she invited me over to her place, and we chatted about things for awhile, and she produced a joint, which we shared. We both became a bit randy, and started into things. Before it became irrevocable, I said "look, are you really sure you want to do this? We don't have to, and if you want to stop right now, we'll stop.". She said "no, I want to go on. Please." So we did. Both of us were lucid.

A called her a few days later, ready to apologize for not calling sooner. Without making any direct accusations, she made it very clear that her next paper was going to be on the topic of "acquaintance rape". The implication was understood, and I vowed never to put myself in that situation ever again. I made myself vulnerable, and I came very close to being burned for behaving in a way I thought appropriate and respectful. Never again under the influence of anything, neither she, I nor both of us.


I am sorry she perceived it that way afterwards. I agree situations like that take the focus away frim the true predatory rapists, and make innocent guys feel like shiat for what you thought was mutual enjoyment. Alcohol and drugs just muddy the issue and, as you said, leave people vulnerable. If you are going to have casual sex with an aquaintence, fark sober.
 
2012-02-14 01:49:53 AM

skepticultist: KiplingKat872: So? They still have a choice, and they bear the resposibility for that choice.

Unlike the shark, who is just eating.

I'm not convinced that sociopaths do have a choice. That is precisely what makes them so dangerous, I think. Without a typical human conscience, the ability to make meaningful choices may not exist.

You forgive the shark for acting on its instincts because you recognize that the shark has no conscience. If a sociopath has no conscience, then isn't the sociopath no different than the shark? A creature driven entirely by appetites, unable to control its own actions?


Sociopaths are a lot rarer than rapists are. Pretty much any reputable psychiatrist on earth can tell you that.
 
2012-02-14 01:50:10 AM
arguing by analogy is like being raped by a shark. or something.
 
2012-02-14 01:51:36 AM

skepticultist: Without a typical human conscience, the ability to make meaningful choices may not exist.


Which is basically bullshait. Just because you feel no moral compulsion doesn't mean you don't have a choice. It just means you thought you could get away with the crime without any punishment.
 
2012-02-14 01:52:37 AM

KiplingKat872: If you are going to have casual sex with an aquaintence, fark sober.


seems less important than just not putting your dick into crazy, really.

let's be honest, buckler - when the nice goth lady showed you her jibblies, and invited you over to bone....you knew you were sticking your dick into crazy, didn't you?

no amount of intoxication (or lack thereof) really changes that.
 
2012-02-14 01:54:53 AM

Genevieve Marie: skepticultist: KiplingKat872: So? They still have a choice, and they bear the resposibility for that choice.

Unlike the shark, who is just eating.

I'm not convinced that sociopaths do have a choice. That is precisely what makes them so dangerous, I think. Without a typical human conscience, the ability to make meaningful choices may not exist.

You forgive the shark for acting on its instincts because you recognize that the shark has no conscience. If a sociopath has no conscience, then isn't the sociopath no different than the shark? A creature driven entirely by appetites, unable to control its own actions?

Sociopaths are a lot rarer than rapists are. Pretty much any reputable psychiatrist on earth can tell you that.


Not only that, but rape isn't an instinct. Unlike a shark eating in order to live.
 
2012-02-14 01:57:08 AM

Dan the Schman: Not only that, but rape isn't an instinct. Unlike a shark eating in order to live.


That too.

All in all, it's a crappy, awful analogy.
 
2012-02-14 01:57:10 AM

heap: KiplingKat872: If you are going to have casual sex with an aquaintence, fark sober.

seems less important than just not putting your dick into crazy, really.

let's be honest, buckler - when the nice goth lady showed you her jibblies, and invited you over to bone....you knew you were sticking your dick into crazy, didn't you?

no amount of intoxication (or lack thereof) really changes that.


I didn't really get that vibe at all. My own prior experience had been with theatre folk and artists, and I was accustomed to the folk in those arenas. She struck me as a creative and uninhibited type, not crazy. I'd learned to tell the difference before then...or so I thought, perhaps.
 
2012-02-14 01:58:50 AM

skepticultist: KiplingKat872: You know, sometimes women drink because they enjoy it. Do you think we're all teenagers or something? Seriously, you're talking about behavior most of us leave behind when we graduate college.

Yes, and after you graduate college the chances that you'll be raped drop so dramatically its rather stunning. The chances of a woman over the age of 25 being raped are practically nil, and over 30 its more likely she'll win the lotto or be struck by lightning. Which isn't to say it doesn't happen, but the reality is that the group of "women" most likely to be raped are girls under the age of 16, and the second most likely group to be raped are girls between the ages of 16 and 24.

So no, I don't think you're all "teenagers," but I am aware that most adult rape victims are college-aged young adults.

There isn't anything older women can do to protect themselves from rape specifically, since older women who are raped are likely to be the victims of deliberate sexual predators. There's really nothing to be gained from trying to protect oneself from such predators, much like there's no compelling reason to take active steps to protect yourself from serial killers. The chances you'll meet one are too slim to justify any deliberate action.

Women who need to get drunk to have casual sex have some pretty big issues with their lifestyle choices.

Yay for slut-shaming!

In any case, if the woman is so drunk she can't walk straight, then to be on the safe side buy her a soda and wait for her to sober up some before going home with her.

Good advice, but it can be hard for a man who is drunk and can't walk straight himself to effectively judge the level of inebriation of another person, especially if she's slobbering all over him and telling him how much she wants to fark his brains out.


Actually the high instances of rape on college campuses indicate that is where the predatory rapists congregate. And why not? Young women away from home, getting drunk. It's a target rich environment. Worked for Ted Bundy.

As for the age thing, while the instances of rape are greater on campuses, I do not believe the numbers drop as dramatically as that.

If you can have casual sex with a stranger sober, then you are obviously comfortable with a lifestyle choice that makes you happy.

If you have to get "slobbering" drunk to do it, you are obviously not comfortable with that choice.

Anyone that chooses not to take that advice had better be prepared for an interview with John Law at some point.
 
2012-02-14 02:01:31 AM

buckler: .or so I thought, perhaps.


at least it wasn't a much harder earned life lesson, i guess. just sorta seemed vaguely reminiscent of the occasions i knowingly put my dick into crazy and somehow lived thru it.

maybe the Dave Chappelle Sex Contract needs to gain ground, complete with Anal Waiver and mutual oral sub-clause
 
2012-02-14 02:01:36 AM

skepticultist: KiplingKat872: So? They still have a choice, and they bear the resposibility for that choice.

Unlike the shark, who is just eating.

I'm not convinced that sociopaths do have a choice. That is precisely what makes them so dangerous, I think. Without a typical human conscience, the ability to make meaningful choices may not exist.

You forgive the shark for acting on its instincts because you recognize that the shark has no conscience. If a sociopath has no conscience, then isn't the sociopath no different than the shark? A creature driven entirely by appetites, unable to control its own actions?


You may not be convinced, nut the law is. A rape victim is not to blame for his or her rape. Period.

And all sharks are predators. Not all men are rapists.
 
2012-02-14 02:03:09 AM

Genevieve Marie: skepticultist: KiplingKat872: So? They still have a choice, and they bear the resposibility for that choice.

Unlike the shark, who is just eating.

I'm not convinced that sociopaths do have a choice. That is precisely what makes them so dangerous, I think. Without a typical human conscience, the ability to make meaningful choices may not exist.

You forgive the shark for acting on its instincts because you recognize that the shark has no conscience. If a sociopath has no conscience, then isn't the sociopath no different than the shark? A creature driven entirely by appetites, unable to control its own actions?

Sociopaths are a lot rarer than rapists are. Pretty much any reputable psychiatrist on earth can tell you that.


I actually think you're entirely wrong on that count. Some studies indicate that 1 in 25 people is a sociopath, which would make sociopaths far, far more common than rapists.
 
2012-02-14 02:03:50 AM

Cisco-Kid: [www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk image 595x420]

Remember guys - no matter what she's wearing or what you gave her to drink or where she's walking or what job she enlisted for, it isn't ok to rape. (not even a little!)

/the more you know!


Don't forget the rape kits! (new window)
 
2012-02-14 02:04:32 AM

skepticultist: Genevieve Marie: skepticultist: KiplingKat872: So? They still have a choice, and they bear the resposibility for that choice.

Unlike the shark, who is just eating.

I'm not convinced that sociopaths do have a choice. That is precisely what makes them so dangerous, I think. Without a typical human conscience, the ability to make meaningful choices may not exist.

You forgive the shark for acting on its instincts because you recognize that the shark has no conscience. If a sociopath has no conscience, then isn't the sociopath no different than the shark? A creature driven entirely by appetites, unable to control its own actions?

Sociopaths are a lot rarer than rapists are. Pretty much any reputable psychiatrist on earth can tell you that.

I actually think you're entirely wrong on that count. Some studies indicate that 1 in 25 people is a sociopath, which would make sociopaths far, far more common than rapists.


Cite your source.
 
2012-02-14 02:06:38 AM

Serious Black: Debeo Summa Credo: Meh. Anybody actually watch the clip? She's saying that the military and the pentagon should have expected an increase in rape cases when more women were put in close proximity with male grunts. I don't know if the statistics support her implication that the 64% increase since 2006 was due to more women serving with men, but she's not blaming the victim. She's saying that the pentagon should have known this would happen.

In other words, she's a misandrist who thinks that men are all rapists at heart. I fail to see how that viewpoint is any better than the viewpoint that women are fragile objects and shouldn't be allowed to be soldiers.


[failboat.jpg]

Or, maybe, she just understands the history of war.
 
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