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(Think Progress)   In keeping with the Right's War on Women, FoxNews pundit advocates the raping of female members of the military, saying "What did they expect?"   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 1120
    More: Obvious, Fox News, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, pundits  
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11104 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Feb 2012 at 4:24 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-13 10:35:43 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: Dahnkster: We should pray for them.

I have 9beers farkied as "Ha ha, your family doesn't love you". Every time he pops up in a thread it brings a big ol' schadensmirk to my face.


LOL that's awesome! I'm gonna do that too!
 
2012-02-13 10:35:55 PM  

watson.t.hamster: This is really beautiful.

On the one hand we have someone acknowledging that there are precautions women should take to reduce their chances of being raped.

Then we have someone agreeing with her while simultaneously condemning everyone else who has said this same thing as blaming the victim.

So it's ok to point out there are things you can do to help yourself . . . unless it isn't then it's a mortal sin.


There is really no point in arguing with these idiots, because they don't actually give a crap about rape. They just want to be angry at men. That's why they accuse you of "blaming the victim." It's a programmed ideological response. It's not a counter-argument, its just a way for them to stop their own thought processes and retreat into their ideology.

Women (and the occasional self-hating man) like this have zero interest in dealing with the realities of rape in America. They don't want to think about facts, like the majority of rapes being cases of child molestation, or the majority of adult rapes being drunk women who engaged in behavior that other women call "having a good time," or the fact that more men are raped in America than women (it's true, over 51% of all rapes occur in prison). They just want a hammer they can use to beat on "patriarchy," completely ignoring the fact that patriarchy has already been beaten.

Modern feminists are no different than conservatives. Clueless, ideological, emotionally motivated, and impervious to reason or fact.
 
2012-02-13 10:36:06 PM  

Mrtraveler01: watson.t.hamster: Mrtraveler01: watson.t.hamster: Mrtraveler01: watson.t.hamster: If you ever notice that your friend, who is about to leave for a long vacation, has left his window open would you mention it to him?

Yes?

I see.

Why? It wouldn't be his fault if his home were broken in to would it?

Technically no. It would be the perpetrators fault for breaking into the home. But like Gyrfalcon said, you can at least use some common sense to minimize your risks.

Nope. Saying there are things you can do to minimize your risks is blaming the victim and letting the perp off the hook. Haven't you been paying attention? Why is it your friends fault entirely that some scum bag broke in to his home?

It isn't his fault entirely?


No, but a bunch of people with greater than 46 chromosomes will continually claim you have entirely blamed it on him and not the perp.

Weird I know.
 
2012-02-13 10:36:41 PM  

spamdog: No false outrage going on here, nosirree.


The trilogy is complete. The hero must now go to the mountain.
 
2012-02-13 10:37:01 PM  

s2s2s2: watson.t.hamster: Why is it your friends fault entirely that some scum bag broke in to his home?

Because the house can't say "No".


What about PeeWee Herman's house?
 
2012-02-13 10:37:28 PM  

watson.t.hamster: Mrtraveler01: watson.t.hamster: adamgreeney: watson.t.hamster: Mrtraveler01: watson.t.hamster: If you ever notice that your friend, who is about to leave for a long vacation, has left his window open would you mention it to him?

Yes?

I see.

Why? It wouldn't be his fault if his home were broken in to would it?

No. It wouldn't be his fault.

That was easy.

Fascinating. So you can point out to him that leaving his window open makes him more likely to be the victim and that he shouldn't do that without ascribing to him any of the blame should he be victimized?

Yes.

What do I win?

The right to be the first person to apologize for making the claim that "pointing out risk factors" = blaming the victim?


watson, how about telling us what you think about the woman on Fox News?
 
2012-02-13 10:37:57 PM  

Sabyen91: No, I condemn you for your disingenuous bullshiat, not saying that "it is a good thing to not walk down dark alleys". Your idiotic point is so obvious that it ...


Ah and what in your rage-addled mind was my "disingenuous bullshiat"? I'm curious what's actually going on in there.
 
2012-02-13 10:38:20 PM  

watson.t.hamster: One person makes an obviously false claim that must incorporate every single living woman to be accurate (while even one counter example would prove it false).

I point out that there is no way every single female over the age of 18 is entirely on board with any one thing.


*Sigh*

The overwhelmingly common female experience amongst women who are mentally competent and don't suffer from debilitating mental illnesses or brain damage is that we're taught about rape and prevention regularly.

Aside from a few isolated cases, women know about all of the ways we can supposedly prevent rape, none of which are comforting to women who have actually been raped.

I apologize for not taking into account the statistical outliers.

There.
 
2012-02-13 10:38:39 PM  

moralpanic: LOL that's awesome! I'm gonna do that too!


Or what could be doing is sending an email to Fox News demanding that this vile biatch be removed as a contributor like I just did.

Phone: 1-888-369-4762
Email: you­rco­mments[nospam-﹫-backwards]sweN­x­oF*c­o­m
 
2012-02-13 10:38:51 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: So, what I'm seeing ITT is that liberals are the real misogynists or some bullshiat and so women should vote Rapeublican.


Exactly. Republican women know that a small amount of rape is okay. Once or twice a year and really, there's no need to get the government involved in that.
 
2012-02-13 10:39:06 PM  

watson.t.hamster: Mrtraveler01: watson.t.hamster: adamgreeney: watson.t.hamster: Mrtraveler01: watson.t.hamster: If you ever notice that your friend, who is about to leave for a long vacation, has left his window open would you mention it to him?

Yes?

I see.

Why? It wouldn't be his fault if his home were broken in to would it?

No. It wouldn't be his fault.

That was easy.

Fascinating. So you can point out to him that leaving his window open makes him more likely to be the victim and that he shouldn't do that without ascribing to him any of the blame should he be victimized?

Yes.

What do I win?

The right to be the first person to apologize for making the claim that "pointing out risk factors" = blaming the victim?


I didn't say that.

All I said was:

"saying that the rapee should've taken note of the risk factors I pointed out" = blaming the victim
 
2012-02-13 10:39:08 PM  

Sabyen91: watson, how about telling us what you think about the woman on Fox News?


Well, she wasn't saying what the hate-filled crazy insane libs who are wrong about everything say she said, and anyway even if she did he wouldn't agree with it except that he has some concerns but he never said that and if you quote him you're lying.
 
2012-02-13 10:39:09 PM  

Mrtraveler01: What about PeeWee Herman's house?

His

house was asking for it.

Literally "Fark me, I'm lonely and have daddy issues, sound legit?"
 
2012-02-13 10:39:29 PM  

watson.t.hamster: Sabyen91: No, I condemn you for your disingenuous bullshiat, not saying that "it is a good thing to not walk down dark alleys". Your idiotic point is so obvious that it ...

Ah and what in your rage-addled mind was my "disingenuous bullshiat"? I'm curious what's actually going on in there.


Your deflection of the actual point?

/That is a logical flaw.
 
2012-02-13 10:40:19 PM  

Lando Lincoln: A Dark Evil Omen: So, what I'm seeing ITT is that liberals are the real misogynists or some bullshiat and so women should vote Rapeublican.

Exactly. Republican women know that a small amount of rape is okay. Once or twice a year and really, there's no need to get the government involved in that.


40 lbs. No more and no less.
 
2012-02-13 10:40:40 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: Sabyen91: watson, how about telling us what you think about the woman on Fox News?

Well, she wasn't saying what the hate-filled crazy insane libs who are wrong about everything say she said, and anyway even if she did he wouldn't agree with it except that he has some concerns but he never said that and if you quote him you're lying.


I am not sure he is going to say that. He will say, well, she probably could have stated it much better.
 
2012-02-13 10:40:42 PM  

s2s2s2: Mrtraveler01: What about PeeWee Herman's house?

His house was asking for it.

Literally "Fark me, I'm lonely and have daddy issues, sound legit?"


I laughed at that much more than I probably should've.
 
2012-02-13 10:40:43 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
They're just asking for it.
 
2012-02-13 10:40:47 PM  

Sabyen91: watson, how about telling us what you think about the woman on Fox News?



Sabyen how about reading the thread so I don't have to repeat my statements ad infinitum.


adamgreeney: watson.t.hamster: adamgreeney: watson.t.hamster: Mrtraveler01: watson.t.hamster: If you ever notice that your friend, who is about to leave for a long vacation, has left his window open would you mention it to him?

Yes?

I see.

Why? It wouldn't be his fault if his home were broken in to would it?

No. It wouldn't be his fault.

That was easy.

Fascinating. So you can point out to him that leaving his window open makes him more likely to be the victim and that he shouldn't do that without ascribing to him any of the blame should he be victimized?

It shouldn't matter if the window is up or down. It isn't his fault because no one has the right, ethically or legally, to rob him. If it happens the blame is with the criminal. easy


And there it is. His fault. I never said it was his fault.

I asked if you would mention it to him.

And you took that to mean "blaming him".

You can see how stupid that argument is. If you say "hey buddy your window is open, maybe close it" do you really think he will fly in to a rage for you "blaming him" for being potentially a crime victim? What are people like in your world.
 
2012-02-13 10:40:52 PM  

Biological Ali: The Numbers: Biological Ali: The Numbers: Except your argument seems to be based around this rather novel idea of a 'base rape rate' and that the likliehood of rape is therefore a simply a factor of base rape rate x time spent together and ignores the importance that the prior relationship between rapist and victim can have in causing the rape.

Base rates aren't a novel concept. And indeed, if you're suggesting that there's something about acquaintences that make them more likely to rape even controlling for time, all you're really saying is that they'd have a higher base rate for rape than total strangers. Something which hasn't been demonstrated, to the best of my knowledge.

Then go read the research of Mary Koss and others. Alternatively, feel free to back up your assertions with some evidence.

My only assertion was that the single piece of data you've actually cited (most rapes are carried out by acquaintences rather than strangers) does not back up the assertion that you made - that a woman would be less likely to be raped if she were to spend time with strangers rather than people she knew. As such, unless you can dig up some data that actually supports that, your argument is essentially the equivalent of "You're more likely to die inside your home than anywhere else, so you'll be safer if you just stay at a friend's house instead."


Those dull analogies only show how much you've missed the point. Koss' research found that in 84% of rapes, the victim knew the perpetrator. Of those rapes, 57% occurred during a date. That context is important. It can involve a sexually charged atmosphere; maybe the guy expects sex because he paid for dinner or because that's what happened last time they went on a date. Maybe he's misinterpreted some signals or feels he's been humiliated by her in some way. All of these, and more besides, are motivators for rape.

Now, in terms of the original scenario to which we were responding, do you think think there are more likely to be motivators present in the mind of:

a The guy she's been out drinking with
b The cabbie she's never met.

/Although I shouldn't need to say this, for the mouthbreathers out there - I am not in any way, shape or form condoning rape or in any way assigning blame to the victim.
 
2012-02-13 10:42:08 PM  

Sabyen91: watson.t.hamster: Sabyen91: No, I condemn you for your disingenuous bullshiat, not saying that "it is a good thing to not walk down dark alleys". Your idiotic point is so obvious that it ...

Ah and what in your rage-addled mind was my "disingenuous bullshiat"? I'm curious what's actually going on in there.

Your deflection of the actual point?

/That is a logical flaw.


The actual point being? What the multitude of lies addressed towards me. Or responding to the article which I did ON MY FIRST FARKING COMMENT.
 
2012-02-13 10:43:00 PM  

watson.t.hamster: Whoa, full stop. No, that is a lie so let's nip that one in the bud. You were the one that dismissed any sort of education on the victim side and instead chose to focus exclusively on educating males (with the assumption that all males are rapists).


No. I dismissed the idea that that will help solve the problem. You seem to be implying it will. Where is the evidence for that claim? We can look at hundreds of years of statistics on sexual assault and cultural and legal views on rape that strongly suggest that it does f*ck all to help solve the problem.

You were entirely dismissive of my suggestion to the contrary.

Only because you were so flippantly dismissing my sensible precautions that address the criminal and not the victim. Go back over the thread and see when I first responded to you, how I did so, and then your response to me. Enlightening stuff.

Lack of evidence . . . safely say it's a complete waste of time.

Well... yes. If there is no evidence to support an empirical claim, it is a waste of time to hold that claim as valid. Present evidence that your suggestions actually decrease incidence of rape and we can talk.

Why bring it up if that wasn't part of your argument? You made the claim.

It was part of my argument. I didn't say it wasn't. The point was that the resources of most policing agencies is aimed at preventing crime through appealing to the criminal, not the victim. Yes, of course there will always be those suggestions about how to prevent being a victim, but the overwhelming majority of resources spent aimed at preventing crime is aimed at the potential criminal. From simply having a discouraging police presence somewhere, to punishment to set an example, to high school safety officers talking about why it's wrong to do X (steal, do drugs, rape, etc.), sexual harassment seminars, and so forth. Those are aimed primarily or exclusively at convincing people not to be a criminal. Preventing crime is accomplished better by convincing people to not commit them, not by convincing people to do X, Y, and Z to avoid being a victim.

Rape has been illegal for how long now? Clearly it isn't going to disappear no matter how much you focus on educating one gender. So why not educate both in a sensible manner and then accept that you will still have some cases and deal with those as they come.

That seems sensible to me. You?


Considering, once again, we have hundreds of years of trying to educate women into not being victims and no evidence that it actually does anything to decrease the incidence or prevalence of rape, no it doesn't seem sensible to continue spending this much energy and effort aimed at women when it could be spent aimed at men.

What part of this is difficult for you? I admit, earlier on in the thread I did see instances of people misinterpreting your statements, but in light of what you've been saying lately, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they were prescient about your views on this rather than being hyperbolic reactionaries.

Quit doubling-down on a failed line of argumentation and consider the alternative.
 
2012-02-13 10:43:04 PM  

watson.t.hamster: Sabyen91: watson, how about telling us what you think about the woman on Fox News?


Sabyen how about reading the thread so I don't have to repeat my statements ad infinitum.


Is this still your belief?

watson.t.hamster: It seems like she's referring to the pentagon (the source of the study she was talking about). If so she's right, put hundreds of thousands of 20ish men with 20ish women and you really should expect some rapes. It's horrible obviously, and we should definitely combat it but you can't be surprised when it happens.


And if so, what do you have to say about her hatred of the protections the Pentagon added?
 
2012-02-13 10:43:54 PM  

watson.t.hamster: Sabyen91: watson.t.hamster: Sabyen91: No, I condemn you for your disingenuous bullshiat, not saying that "it is a good thing to not walk down dark alleys". Your idiotic point is so obvious that it ...

Ah and what in your rage-addled mind was my "disingenuous bullshiat"? I'm curious what's actually going on in there.

Your deflection of the actual point?

/That is a logical flaw.

The actual point being? What the multitude of lies addressed towards me. Or responding to the article which I did ON MY FIRST FARKING COMMENT.


The actual point of the farking article. It isn't about wearing jeans rather than a miniskirt.
 
2012-02-13 10:44:00 PM  

Mrtraveler01: I laughed at that


I'm glad. Wanted to distract you from Watson T Rectum Dweller.
 
2012-02-13 10:44:06 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Fascinating. So you can point out to him that leaving his window open makes him more likely to be the victim and that he shouldn't do that without ascribing to him any of the blame should he be victimized?

Yes


So you can point out risk factors without blaming the victim? Ok so what's the . . ..


"saying that the rapee should've taken note of the risk factors I pointed out" = blaming the victim

Wat?
 
2012-02-13 10:44:39 PM  

Genevieve Marie: The overwhelmingly common female experience amongst women who are mentally competent and don't suffer from debilitating mental illnesses or brain damage is that we're taught about rape and prevention regularly.


So. Much. Bullshiat.

The reality is that "feminists" like you fight and fight hard against any and all efforts to educate women about rape, because educating people in general about the realities of rape would take away the most effective rhetorical tricks that feminists have to ensure continued funding for feminist programs.

When it comes to rape, no-one lies, dissembles and spreads misinformation like feminists. Feminists like you you get women hurt constantly by your efforts, which makes you not just a bunch of idiots but downright monstrous.
 
2012-02-13 10:45:15 PM  
Well, I guess we'll have to up the punishment for rape/assault.

No, I didn't read 600-some posts.

You're in the military as a killing machine, yes, but you're still not an animal. You don't rape or assault, period. We're all friends here.

And on the other side of the fence, the pariahs that call foul play when it was consensual need to to be strung up by the peachhairs as well.

This lady fails to understand that our mission is to evolve. We control ourselves. It's that or we continue to fail as a race.
 
2012-02-13 10:45:15 PM  

Sabyen91: The actual point being? What the multitude of lies addressed towards me. Or responding to the article which I did ON MY FIRST FARKING COMMENT.

The actual point of the farking article. It isn't about wearing jeans rather than a miniskirt.


Right, so the actual point of the article which I responded to in MY FIRST FARKING COMMENT.

Namely that the article is based around a lie and she never made the claim in the title.

Easy enough.
 
2012-02-13 10:45:48 PM  

skepticultist: Genevieve Marie: The overwhelmingly common female experience amongst women who are mentally competent and don't suffer from debilitating mental illnesses or brain damage is that we're taught about rape and prevention regularly.

So. Much. Bullshiat.

The reality is that "feminists" like you fight and fight hard against any and all efforts to educate women about rape, because educating people in general about the realities of rape would take away the most effective rhetorical tricks that feminists have to ensure continued funding for feminist programs.

When it comes to rape, no-one lies, dissembles and spreads misinformation like feminists. Feminists like you you get women hurt constantly by your efforts, which makes you not just a bunch of idiots but downright monstrous.


Wow, this farking point deserves zero response.

/Go away, farktard.
 
2012-02-13 10:46:14 PM  

Kome: Quit doubling-down on a failed line of argumentation and consider the alternative.


I often ask "Why do conservitards seem to care about the criminal's rights when the crime is rape?"

I translate all the stupid answers to "I wanted to, and she didn't."
 
2012-02-13 10:46:16 PM  

Sabyen91: The trilogy is complete. The hero must now go to the mountain.


Who said I was talking about you, Sabyen? ;)
 
2012-02-13 10:46:57 PM  

Sabyen91: watson.t.hamster: Sabyen91: watson, how about telling us what you think about the woman on Fox News?


Sabyen how about reading the thread so I don't have to repeat my statements ad infinitum.

Is this still your belief? watson.t.hamster: It seems like she's referring to the pentagon (the source of the study she was talking about). If so she's right, put hundreds of thousands of 20ish men with 20ish women and you really should expect some rapes. It's horrible obviously, and we should definitely combat it but you can't be surprised when it happens.


Please explain what is inaccurate or pro-rape about that statement.

I would like an answer before moving on.

/I know I know, by asking you to clarify your position I am supporting rape. Whatever.
 
2012-02-13 10:47:16 PM  

watson.t.hamster: Sabyen91: The actual point being? What the multitude of lies addressed towards me. Or responding to the article which I did ON MY FIRST FARKING COMMENT.

The actual point of the farking article. It isn't about wearing jeans rather than a miniskirt.

Right, so the actual point of the article which I responded to in MY FIRST FARKING COMMENT.

Namely that the article is based around a lie and she never made the claim in the title.

Easy enough.


Except you didn't explain her comment about the layers of bureaucracy supporting women who have been raped too much.

/Careful, this one will solidify your troll status.
 
2012-02-13 10:47:18 PM  

skepticultist: rar feminazis i hates them


i204.photobucket.com

Bored now.
 
2012-02-13 10:47:23 PM  
www.rockpeaks.com
 
2012-02-13 10:47:37 PM  

The Numbers: Biological Ali: The Numbers: Except your argument seems to be based around this rather novel idea of a 'base rape rate' and that the likliehood of rape is therefore a simply a factor of base rape rate x time spent together and ignores the importance that the prior relationship between rapist and victim can have in causing the rape.

Base rates aren't a novel concept. And indeed, if you're suggesting that there's something about acquaintences that make them more likely to rape even controlling for time, all you're really saying is that they'd have a higher base rate for rape than total strangers. Something which hasn't been demonstrated, to the best of my knowledge.

Then go read the research of Mary Koss and others. Alternatively, feel free to back up your assertions with some evidence.


According to Mary Koss's research many rape victims continue to date and often even marry their rapists. Do you know why that is?

it's because Mary Koss's research is a bunch of ideologically driven twaddle invented to hide the realities of rape and to demonize men.
 
2012-02-13 10:47:57 PM  

watson.t.hamster: Sabyen91: The actual point being? What the multitude of lies addressed towards me. Or responding to the article which I did ON MY FIRST FARKING COMMENT.

The actual point of the farking article. It isn't about wearing jeans rather than a miniskirt.

Right, so the actual point of the article which I responded to in MY FIRST FARKING COMMENT.

Namely that the article is based around a lie and she never made the claim in the title.

Easy enough.


You still think she was talking about the Pentagon after all this derp she posted afterwards?

And the feminists have also directed them, really, to spend a lot of money. They have sexual counselors all over the place, victims' advocates, sexual response coordinators. ... So, you have this whole bureaucracy upon bureaucracy being built up with all kinds of levels of people to support women in the military who are now being raped too much.

To his credit, Fox host Eric Shawn tried to talk Trotta down a bit. "You certainly want the people fighting the war to be protected from anything that could be illegal," he said. But Trotta wouldn't have it. "Nice try Eric," she said, "This whole question of women in the military has not been aired properly, and it's the great sleeping giant."
 
2012-02-13 10:48:05 PM  

watson.t.hamster: "saying that the rapee should've taken note of the risk factors I pointed out" = blaming the victim

Wat?


It's the word "Should have". It implies that "had she", he "wouldn't have".
 
2012-02-13 10:48:42 PM  

spamdog: Sabyen91: The trilogy is complete. The hero must now go to the mountain.

Who said I was talking about you, Sabyen? ;)


You did! I learned if from you!

/I was bad at that, I have you farkied as "pretty farking funny".
 
2012-02-13 10:50:01 PM  

watson.t.hamster: Sabyen91: watson, how about telling us what you think about the woman on Fox News?


Sabyen how about reading the thread so I don't have to repeat my statements ad infinitum.


adamgreeney: watson.t.hamster: adamgreeney: watson.t.hamster: Mrtraveler01: watson.t.hamster: If you ever notice that your friend, who is about to leave for a long vacation, has left his window open would you mention it to him?

Yes?

I see.

Why? It wouldn't be his fault if his home were broken in to would it?

No. It wouldn't be his fault.

That was easy.

Fascinating. So you can point out to him that leaving his window open makes him more likely to be the victim and that he shouldn't do that without ascribing to him any of the blame should he be victimized?

It shouldn't matter if the window is up or down. It isn't his fault because no one has the right, ethically or legally, to rob him. If it happens the blame is with the criminal. easy

And there it is. His fault. I never said it was his fault.

I asked if you would mention it to him.

And you took that to mean "blaming him".

You can see how stupid that argument is. If you say "hey buddy your window is open, maybe close it" do you really think he will fly in to a rage for you "blaming him" for being potentially a crime victim? What are people like in your world.


Go ahead and mention. That's great. But don't imply there is any blame on his part if he does leave it open and doesn't listen to you.

In reality, we should live in a world where I don't have to say anything because he wouldn't be robbed. expecting people to have basic human dignity shouldn't be too much.
 
2012-02-13 10:50:20 PM  

watson.t.hamster: Sabyen91: watson.t.hamster: Sabyen91: watson, how about telling us what you think about the woman on Fox News?


Sabyen how about reading the thread so I don't have to repeat my statements ad infinitum.

Is this still your belief? watson.t.hamster: It seems like she's referring to the pentagon (the source of the study she was talking about). If so she's right, put hundreds of thousands of 20ish men with 20ish women and you really should expect some rapes. It's horrible obviously, and we should definitely combat it but you can't be surprised when it happens.

Please explain what is inaccurate or pro-rape about that statement.

I would like an answer before moving on.

/I know I know, by asking you to clarify your position I am supporting rape. Whatever.


I would like you to tell me why you think that matters? Why is that different than different genders living next to each other?
 
2012-02-13 10:51:52 PM  

Dahnkster: There's a Whataburger near you (new window)

[ryanbrymer.com image 459x339]

Fast Food porn

There will be pickles and onions!


No Whataburgers Found for that Search.
Please try changing your search radius below.
 
2012-02-13 10:52:12 PM  

Kome: Considering, once again, we have hundreds of years of trying to educate women into not being victims and no evidence that it actually does anything to decrease the incidence or prevalence of rape, no it doesn't seem sensible to continue spending this much energy and effort aimed at women when it could be spent aimed at men.


You want to educate males, I have never opposed this (never mentioned anything about it really).

Fine, go ahead. But exactly how much does it cost to mention risk factors to women as well? I think it's worth the expense and so do colleges, high schools, many parents, churches, and a whole slew of other organizations that all do this same thing.

You'll note that my initial statement on this subject was along the lines of "for some reason with rapes you cannot mention risk factors without being said to blame the victim". And of course this thread has perfectly borne that out.


What part of this is difficult for you? I admit, earlier on in the thread I did see instances of people misinterpreting your statements, but in light of what you've been saying lately, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they were prescient about your views on this rather than being hyperbolic reactionaries.

Quit doubling-down on a failed line of argumentation and consider the alternative.


Wait, so you acknowledge they were lying but it's ok?

You'll note I haven't opposed anything you said about education for males. None. So I'm not sure where this is coming from.

Go back to my Weeners to Genevieve. Read it. Then see what if anything is wrong with that statement.
 
2012-02-13 10:52:18 PM  

Kome: Considering, once again, we have hundreds of years of trying to educate women into not being victims and no evidence that it actually does anything to decrease the incidence or prevalence of rape, no it doesn't seem sensible to continue spending this much energy and effort aimed at women when it could be spent aimed at men.


Exactly. It's not like this approach hasn't been tried. This has been the major approach to rape... forever. Time to start taking other approaches.

Here's a quote from a piece I read recently that I agreed with:

"Sex-negative messages don't keep people from having sex. They keep people from having good sex. They keep people from having pride in their sexuality, from sexual self-awareness. They keep people from asking questions about sex, and communicating with their partners. They discourage experimentation. They blur the lines between consensual sex and rape by framing all sex as an undifferentiated mass of "bad."

I agree completely. I think sex positive sex education, combined with anti-rape education for both men and women that focuses on respecting other people's sexual boundaries is really important. We've focused on "how not to be a victim" education for women for a very long time, and no one's suggesting we abandon that, but really, people need to stop treating it like it's a novel concept and like it's the BEST RAPE PREVENTION SOLUTION EVER. Because... it's just not.
 
2012-02-13 10:52:37 PM  
skepticultist Feminist frighten me. They cause rapes. Man the troll is strong in this thread.

explodingdog.com
 
2012-02-13 10:53:40 PM  

Sabyen91: I would like you to tell me why you think that matters? Why is that different than different genders living next to each other?


It matters because when you put more women together with men you would expect rape rates to go up.

1 guy alone = no rapes.

Adding any more people increases the chances.

So her statement that this is expected in light of greater numbers of women soldiers is not pro-rape. It's just common sense.
 
2012-02-13 10:53:52 PM  

skepticultist: The Numbers: Biological Ali: The Numbers: Except your argument seems to be based around this rather novel idea of a 'base rape rate' and that the likliehood of rape is therefore a simply a factor of base rape rate x time spent together and ignores the importance that the prior relationship between rapist and victim can have in causing the rape.

Base rates aren't a novel concept. And indeed, if you're suggesting that there's something about acquaintences that make them more likely to rape even controlling for time, all you're really saying is that they'd have a higher base rate for rape than total strangers. Something which hasn't been demonstrated, to the best of my knowledge.

Then go read the research of Mary Koss and others. Alternatively, feel free to back up your assertions with some evidence.

According to Mary Koss's research many rape victims continue to date and often even marry their rapists. Do you know why that is?

it's because Mary Koss's research is a bunch of ideologically driven twaddle invented to hide the realities of rape and to demonize men.


"BHAA! Women are evil! They trick men and lie to us and are horrible monsters! Men never rape them, its all lies to keep the men in their place!"

The ranting of a lifelong bachelor who was stood up at prom. any one want to bet on the likelihood Skep here ends up a serial killer and/or rapist?
 
2012-02-13 10:54:59 PM  

The Numbers: Those dull analogies only show how much you've missed the point. Koss' research found that in 84% of rapes, the victim knew the perpetrator. Of those rapes, 57% occurred during a date.


That's because Mary Koss counted any woman who had sex with a man after he bought her a drink as a rape victim even if the woman being interviewed claimed she had never been raped and -- and this is the important part -- even if she continued to date and eventually married her "rapist."

And please note: That's after buying her one drink, not buying her enough drinks that she passes out. That's how Koss arrived at her 1 in 8 statistic, and why later studies using the same methodology arrived at a 1 in 4 figure.

If you take her data and adjust it so that only the women who actually thought they had been raped count as rape victims it suddenly drops to 1 in 24. And if you separate child molestation from adult rapes, the figure drops to something around 1 in 1000.

The reality is that all rapes are committed by less than 1% of all men. But that isn't a very effective tool for demonizing men and justifying cushy academic positions for career feminists to peddle their bullshiat ideology.
 
2012-02-13 10:54:59 PM  

Genevieve Marie: Kome: Considering, once again, we have hundreds of years of trying to educate women into not being victims and no evidence that it actually does anything to decrease the incidence or prevalence of rape, no it doesn't seem sensible to continue spending this much energy and effort aimed at women when it could be spent aimed at men.

Exactly. It's not like this approach hasn't been tried. This has been the major approach to rape... forever. Time to start taking other approaches.

Here's a quote from a piece I read recently that I agreed with:

"Sex-negative messages don't keep people from having sex. They keep people from having good sex. They keep people from having pride in their sexuality, from sexual self-awareness. They keep people from asking questions about sex, and communicating with their partners. They discourage experimentation. They blur the lines between consensual sex and rape by framing all sex as an undifferentiated mass of "bad."

I agree completely. I think sex positive sex education, combined with anti-rape education for both men and women that focuses on respecting other people's sexual boundaries is really important. We've focused on "how not to be a victim" education for women for a very long time, and no one's suggesting we abandon that, but really, people need to stop treating it like it's a novel concept and like it's the BEST RAPE PREVENTION SOLUTION EVER. Because... it's just not.


Wow. You don't even understand why you're a hypocrite?
 
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