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(Think Progress)   In keeping with the Right's War on Women, FoxNews pundit advocates the raping of female members of the military, saying "What did they expect?"   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 1120
    More: Obvious, Fox News, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, pundits  
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11104 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Feb 2012 at 4:24 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-13 08:43:18 PM

GoldSpider: Fart_Machine: No, I'm sure some of them are. However that's far different than to expect them to be rapists.

Which is also different from anticipating some problems.


I agree. However, I don't think anybody that saw what she said would believe that is what she meant either.

/I think you would agree.
 
2012-02-13 08:44:03 PM

thamike: Sabyen91: God's Hubris: [i13.photobucket.com image 640x536]

I don't often say a woman's face is punchable, but damn, my gentlemanly ways fail me on this one.

Over-cooked muppet doesn't count as woman.


Whew, I still have my chivalrous heart intact.
 
2012-02-13 08:44:33 PM

Biological Ali: What if the would-be rapist acquaintance is the cab driver who takes her home? Would that make her actions wise, or twice as foolish?


www.mediaite.com

"B*tch should've taken a charter jet."
 
2012-02-13 08:46:12 PM

GoldSpider: Fart_Machine: No, I'm sure some of them are. However that's far different than to expect them to be rapists.

Which is also different from anticipating some problems.


Now, what did they expect? You have this whole bureaucracy upon bureaucracy being built up with all kinds of levels of people to support women in the military who are now being raped too much.
 
2012-02-13 08:46:59 PM

Sabyen91: I agree. However, I don't think anybody that saw what she said would believe that is what she meant either.

/I think you would agree.


Maybe i'm being too generous, but I thought that was the point she was trying to make... with the elegance of a sledgehammer.
 
2012-02-13 08:48:49 PM

The Numbers: Biological Ali: Shoot, I can't believe this gem slipped past me in all that brouhaha:

watson.t.hamster: Notice how she could have called a cab and still had drinks

So instead of being driven home by a guy she does know, a "wiser" option would be to pay for the privilege of being driven home by a guy she doesn't know at all. Comedy gold!

Statistically speaking, it probably would be better, since in the majority of cases the rapist is known by the victim.


Not really, since that's largely due to the fact that people who know will on average spend much, much more time with you than people who don't know you. As such, even if their base rate for doing something like is very low, they'll still end up doing it to you more often than complete strangers who generally don't get that same kind of opportunity. As such, going out of your way to spend more time with people you don't know won't necessarily make you safer (though it would of course depend on base rape rate for the demographic you're now spending more time with).

My own guess would be that the base rates won't be that different and you'd end up getting raped about as often.
 
jvl
2012-02-13 08:48:59 PM

thamike: jvl: It's nice to know that the Right also has a war on women. I'd hate to think that only Democrats did stuff like question the sexuality of a the husband of woman running for President, create bikini pictures of women who are nominated for vice-president, and openly make jokes about ping-pong ball whores if a woman of Asian decent dares to espouse nutty Conservative beliefs.

Is this the "see-you're just as much of a vile sick f*ck as I am" defense?


No, that would be reading comprehension fail on your part. I made no attempt to excuse the Republican behavior.

This is the "misogyny is rarely pointed out when we do it" comment. It's an orthogonal issue to the linked topic.
 
2012-02-13 08:49:30 PM
People who work for Fox News should have their skin torn off, drenched in acid and then torched. I mean, what did they expect?
 
2012-02-13 08:49:40 PM
Goddamn it, conservatives. Are you sure that you want to ally yourselves with people like this crazy biatch? I get it that you might have some differing ideas regarding fiscal policies. That's OK. But when you get on board with crazies only because you hate "libs" and they hate "libs"... Well, that's stupid, mmKay? You know it's stupid, but you do it anyway. I don't get it.
 
2012-02-13 08:49:43 PM

Kome: I think that happens a lot because most of the time, the person putting forward those arguments aren't actually advocating a serious genuine examination into the causes of rape from the victim perspective this is Fark.

Even if you are not one of those, you got caught in a crossfire by appearing to be supporting those guys. My recommendation, and this is really just good advice in general in any discussion, be precise with your word choice and clear with your wording, and maybe even say the same thing in a few different ways while at the same time typing out some firm stance of where you are on the issue. It's a little extra work, but when I do it (which isn't nearly as often as I should, I admit) I get a lot better feedback and more constructive discussions going.


FTFY

Given the context of this thread, that's an interesting post. Lilplatinum has been subjected to some unfair treatment; instead of condemning those who have carried out this unfair treatment, you offer advice on what should be done differently to avoid being targeted.
 
2012-02-13 08:50:25 PM

GoldSpider: Sabyen91: I agree. However, I don't think anybody that saw what she said would believe that is what she meant either.

/I think you would agree.

Maybe i'm being too generous, but I thought that was the point she was trying to make... with the elegance of a sledgehammer.


Except she didn't. She said "What did they expect"? Ok, that could just be tactless. She then goes on to demonize the support services that were put in place because they did foresee some problems.
 
2012-02-13 08:51:05 PM

Sabyen91: She then goes on to demonize the support services that were put in place because they did foresee some problems.


Agree that was way off the rails.
 
2012-02-13 08:52:02 PM

jvl: thamike: jvl: It's nice to know that the Right also has a war on women. I'd hate to think that only Democrats did stuff like question the sexuality of a the husband of woman running for President, create bikini pictures of women who are nominated for vice-president, and openly make jokes about ping-pong ball whores if a woman of Asian decent dares to espouse nutty Conservative beliefs.

Is this the "see-you're just as much of a vile sick f*ck as I am" defense?

No, that would be reading comprehension fail on your part. I made no attempt to excuse the Republican behavior.

This is the "misogyny is rarely pointed out when we do it" comment. It's an orthogonal issue to the linked topic.


Nope, you did try to excuse it by equating Democrats doing misogynistic things to rape.

/So vote rapist?
 
2012-02-13 08:53:29 PM

Sabyen91: God's Hubris: [i13.photobucket.com image 640x536]

I don't often say a woman's face is punchable, but damn, my gentlemanly ways fail me on this one.


She reminds me of Cheri Oteri doing Barbara Walters.
 
2012-02-13 08:54:51 PM

GoldSpider: Sabyen91: She then goes on to demonize the support services that were put in place because they did foresee some problems.

Agree that was way off the rails.


It isn't just off the rails, it changes her whole argument in my mind. Before that she could have just been a heartless biatch who was saying "I told you so" to being a heartless biatch saying "I told you so and I don't want to see it change because that would hurt my anti-feminist message".
 
2012-02-13 08:55:26 PM

God's Hubris: Sabyen91: God's Hubris: [i13.photobucket.com image 640x536]

I don't often say a woman's face is punchable, but damn, my gentlemanly ways fail me on this one.

She reminds me of Cheri Oteri doing Barbara Walters.


Go on...
 
2012-02-13 08:56:20 PM

The Numbers: Given the context of this thread, that's an interesting post. Lilplatinum has been subjected to some unfair treatment; instead of condemning those who have carried out this unfair treatment, you offer advice on what should be done differently to avoid being targeted.


To be fair I have been drinking in the office all day so I was asking for it.
 
2012-02-13 08:58:34 PM

Sabyen91: God's Hubris: Sabyen91: God's Hubris: [i13.photobucket.com image 640x536]

I don't often say a woman's face is punchable, but damn, my gentlemanly ways fail me on this one.

She reminds me of Cheri Oteri doing Barbara Walters.

Go on...


Now I know you're sick... :)
 
2012-02-13 08:58:38 PM

Sabyen91: God's Hubris: Sabyen91: God's Hubris: [i13.photobucket.com image 640x536]

I don't often say a woman's face is punchable, but damn, my gentlemanly ways fail me on this one.

She reminds me of Cheri Oteri doing Barbara Walters.

Go on...



...their nubile breasts pressed together, nipples taut with arousal, as her tongue explored...
 
2012-02-13 08:59:56 PM
I clicked this link thinking "Oh let this be Glenn Beck. Oh let this be Glenn Beck."
Was disappoint.
 
2012-02-13 09:04:08 PM
I've seen some derp in my time, but this shiat is out of sight. Premium, 100% pure made in the USA idiocy. As a veteran I feel like I should be offended, because if a woman in the army should expect to be raped then logically one should expect a man in the army to be a rapist. And its all the radical feminists' fault, somehow. How in the hell has America come to this?
 
2012-02-13 09:04:17 PM

Biological Ali: The Numbers: Biological Ali: Shoot, I can't believe this gem slipped past me in all that brouhaha:

watson.t.hamster: Notice how she could have called a cab and still had drinks

So instead of being driven home by a guy she does know, a "wiser" option would be to pay for the privilege of being driven home by a guy she doesn't know at all. Comedy gold!

Statistically speaking, it probably would be better, since in the majority of cases the rapist is known by the victim.

Not really, since that's largely due to the fact that people who know will on average spend much, much more time with you than people who don't know you. As such, even if their base rate for doing something like is very low, they'll still end up doing it to you more often than complete strangers who generally don't get that same kind of opportunity. As such, going out of your way to spend more time with people you don't know won't necessarily make you safer (though it would of course depend on base rape rate for the demographic you're now spending more time with).

My own guess would be that the base rates won't be that different and you'd end up getting raped about as often.


I think you'll find that most studies say the majority are acquaintance rape. Wiki (new window) has plenty of cited sources for you to read if you disagree.
 
2012-02-13 09:06:37 PM
There's a Whataburger near you (new window)

ryanbrymer.com

Fast Food porn

There will be pickles and onions!
 
2012-02-13 09:08:17 PM

Dahnkster: There's a Whataburger near you (new window)

[ryanbrymer.com image 459x339]

Fast Food porn

There will be pickles and onions!


No, no there isn't. And after that Oteri-Walters sandwich I am full.
 
2012-02-13 09:08:48 PM

lilplatinum: The Numbers: Given the context of this thread, that's an interesting post. Lilplatinum has been subjected to some unfair treatment; instead of condemning those who have carried out this unfair treatment, you offer advice on what should be done differently to avoid being targeted.

To be fair I have been drinking in the office all day so I was asking for it.


And the way you're dressed...
 
2012-02-13 09:09:37 PM

The Numbers: I think you'll find that most studies say the majority are acquaintance rape. Wiki (new window) has plenty of cited sources for you to read if you disagree.


I know about the studies. It's fairly basic stuff. As is the understanding that "A given rape is more likely to have been carried out by an acquaintance than by a stranger" != "You will lower your chances of being raped if you spend more time with strangers"
 
2012-02-13 09:11:17 PM

malaktaus: I've seen some derp in my time, but this shiat is out of sight. Premium, 100% pure made in the USA idiocy. As a veteran I feel like I should be offended, because if a woman in the army should expect to be raped then logically one should expect a man in the army to be a rapist. And its all the radical feminists' fault, somehow. How in the hell has America come to this?


That's the logical conclusion.

I've never understood why more men don't get offended by the whole "she was asking for it" thing.
 
2012-02-13 09:15:33 PM

Genevieve Marie: I've never understood why more men don't get offended by the whole "she was asking for it" thing.


Most of us already do. It implies that we're uncontrollable creatures, slaves of our penii, completely without regard for any woman's feelings or rights to security and safety within their own bodies, that we see them as objects and property to be taken at will and used for our own ends, and that our brains never have the ability to override our testosterone. I find that incredibly insulting.
 
2012-02-13 09:15:45 PM

Biological Ali: The Numbers: I think you'll find that most studies say the majority are acquaintance rape. Wiki (new window) has plenty of cited sources for you to read if you disagree.

I know about the studies. It's fairly basic stuff. As is the understanding that "A given rape is more likely to have been carried out by an acquaintance than by a stranger" != "You will lower your chances of being raped if you spend more time with strangers"


It is also like "You are more likely to get into an accident within 20 miles of your home." If you spent more time 21+ miles from your home that % goes way down. It is only more likely because you spend so much of your time close to home, not because you become sloppy by the familiarity.
 
2012-02-13 09:17:39 PM

Genevieve Marie: malaktaus: I've seen some derp in my time, but this shiat is out of sight. Premium, 100% pure made in the USA idiocy. As a veteran I feel like I should be offended, because if a woman in the army should expect to be raped then logically one should expect a man in the army to be a rapist. And its all the radical feminists' fault, somehow. How in the hell has America come to this?

That's the logical conclusion.

I've never understood why more men don't get offended by the whole "she was asking for it" thing.


I thought she was full of hate for both men and women. I personally have always fought that demon but it hasn't been easy. Even when the biatches were sporting whale-tails I didn't rape them. Whale-tails!
 
2012-02-13 09:18:50 PM
I wonder how rape apologists' arguments would apply to other situations. Blaming the victim would seem to be so contrary to the Party of Personal Responsibility.

"Being fat isn't my fault. The Twinkies were just begging to be eaten, what with their plump golden-brown cake and puckered cream holes taunting me from the shelf..."
 
2012-02-13 09:20:24 PM

buckler: Genevieve Marie: I've never understood why more men don't get offended by the whole "she was asking for it" thing.

Most of us already do. It implies that we're uncontrollable creatures, slaves of our penii, completely without regard for any woman's feelings or rights to security and safety within their own bodies, that we see them as objects and property to be taken at will and used for our own ends, and that our brains never have the ability to override our testosterone. I find that incredibly insulting.


I know a lot of you do :) I wasn't trying to imply otherwise, although now that I re-read it, I did a little bit.

I just with that the vast majority of men felt that way, and in my experience, that's not the case. There are a lot of great men who do, and who make wonderful feminist allies, but I wish there were more.
 
2012-02-13 09:21:18 PM

Dahnkster: There's a Whataburger near you (new window)

[ryanbrymer.com image 459x339]
Fast Food porn
There will be pickles and onions!



Great burger or greatest burger?
 
2012-02-13 09:21:39 PM

T. Dawg: I wonder how rape apologists' arguments would apply to other situations. Blaming the victim would seem to be so contrary to the Party of Personal Responsibility.

"Being fat isn't my fault. The Twinkies were just begging to be eaten, what with their plump golden-brown cake and puckered cream holes taunting me from the shelf..."


I was protecting everybody else from the evil poly-unsaturated fat. I am a hero.
 
2012-02-13 09:22:22 PM
Years ago, I read Margaret Atwood's "The Handmaid's Tale." At the time, one of the most confusing concepts for me was the idea of the Aunts- the older women who indoctrinate the younger ones into misogynistic sex slavery. I thought, are there really women who would do that to other women?

I now have confirmation that yes, there are.
 
2012-02-13 09:23:30 PM

Wally Weaver: Years ago, I read Margaret Atwood's "The Handmaid's Tale." At the time, one of the most confusing concepts for me was the idea of the Aunts- the older women who indoctrinate the younger ones into misogynistic sex slavery. I thought, are there really women who would do that to other women?

I now have confirmation that yes, there are.


That book is really fantastic, and it's a great first introduction to the weird politics around women's bodies.
 
2012-02-13 09:24:19 PM

Wally Weaver: Years ago, I read Margaret Atwood's "The Handmaid's Tale." At the time, one of the most confusing concepts for me was the idea of the Aunts- the older women who indoctrinate the younger ones into misogynistic sex slavery. I thought, are there really women who would do that to other women?

I now have confirmation that yes, there are.


I am not sure if that is worth a smartest, a funniest, or just an "ayup".
 
2012-02-13 09:25:02 PM
Hello Genevieve Marie

Nothing I see on Fox News surprises me. I have been waiting for them to drop the N-bomb any day now. I remember after Katrina, Shepard Smith was freaking out by what he was seeing and kept going 'off script'. For a minute there he was actually appalled at what he was seeing. Hope all is well in New Orleans and you are enjoying Mardi Gras. I cannot wait for French Quarter Fest and Jazz Fest. All Farkers are invited to drop by and say "Hello" if you see my gris-gris pole with Fred Flintstone and 'Happy' Barbie.... well actually she's more like a black Betty.

Laissez Les Bon Ton Roulette
 
2012-02-13 09:25:36 PM

Sabyen91: T. Dawg: I wonder how rape apologists' arguments would apply to other situations. Blaming the victim would seem to be so contrary to the Party of Personal Responsibility.

"Being fat isn't my fault. The Twinkies were just begging to be eaten, what with their plump golden-brown cake and puckered cream holes taunting me from the shelf..."

I was protecting everybody else from the evil poly-unsaturated fat. I am a hero.


Like falling on a grenade...
 
2012-02-13 09:27:37 PM

Kome: watson.t.hamster: Clearly focusing on just one side of the equation is the best solution.

When one side of the equation is the criminal and the other is the victim, yes, I think it makes perfect sense to focus on just the criminal side of the equation rather than the victim side.

How much do you think we should put into efforts to convince people not to be rich around people who are typically in gangs versus how much we should put into trying to prevent gangs from robbing people?


You do realize the police put out advisories and recommendations on how to reduce your chances of becoming a victim? Like all the time they do this.
 
2012-02-13 09:28:25 PM

Biological Ali: The Numbers: I think you'll find that most studies say the majority are acquaintance rape. Wiki (new window) has plenty of cited sources for you to read if you disagree.

I know about the studies. It's fairly basic stuff. As is the understanding that "A given rape is more likely to have been carried out by an acquaintance than by a stranger" != "You will lower your chances of being raped if you spend more time with strangers"


Except your argument seems to be based around this rather novel idea of a 'base rape rate' and that the likliehood of rape is therefore a simply a factor of base rape rate x time spent together and ignores the importance that the prior relationship between rapist and victim can have in causing the rape.
 
2012-02-13 09:28:29 PM

T. Dawg: Sabyen91: T. Dawg: I wonder how rape apologists' arguments would apply to other situations. Blaming the victim would seem to be so contrary to the Party of Personal Responsibility.

"Being fat isn't my fault. The Twinkies were just begging to be eaten, what with their plump golden-brown cake and puckered cream holes taunting me from the shelf..."

I was protecting everybody else from the evil poly-unsaturated fat. I am a hero.

Like falling on a grenade...


Semper fi...lling!
 
2012-02-13 09:29:27 PM
The few. The proud. The rapists.
or Aim High! Fly-fight-rape.
Hmmm, hang on . A global force for Rapists. Well, might as well try for some truth in advertising.
 
2012-02-13 09:29:35 PM

Biological Ali: watson.t.hamster

Okay, with those last couple posts I think we've now moved well beyond the point where I find it plausible that you're actually saying these things in earnest.

I'll admit it, you got me - though in fairness, that was because it took me a while to figure out your shtick. You might as well fess up now, since it looks like others are starting to get wise to it too.


My schtick: state pretty common sense things and face an onslaught of lies and misrepresentations? I guess, although the second half is on you.
 
2012-02-13 09:30:15 PM

The Numbers: Biological Ali: The Numbers: I think you'll find that most studies say the majority are acquaintance rape. Wiki (new window) has plenty of cited sources for you to read if you disagree.

I know about the studies. It's fairly basic stuff. As is the understanding that "A given rape is more likely to have been carried out by an acquaintance than by a stranger" != "You will lower your chances of being raped if you spend more time with strangers"

Except your argument seems to be based around this rather novel idea of a 'base rape rate' and that the likliehood of rape is therefore a simply a factor of base rape rate x time spent together and ignores the importance that the prior relationship between rapist and victim can have in causing the rape.


I am not sure you could possibly quantify that. I mean, it is a good question but it isn't taken into account in studies and I am not sure it could.
 
2012-02-13 09:30:22 PM

Genevieve Marie: malaktaus: I've seen some derp in my time, but this shiat is out of sight. Premium, 100% pure made in the USA idiocy. As a veteran I feel like I should be offended, because if a woman in the army should expect to be raped then logically one should expect a man in the army to be a rapist. And its all the radical feminists' fault, somehow. How in the hell has America come to this?

That's the logical conclusion.

I've never understood why more men don't get offended by the whole "she was asking for it" thing.


Hey now. We do. Contrary to some people ITT, I think a woman should be able to walk where she wants, when she wants and do what she wants without having to fear rape. Rape is never acceptable, excusable or expected. The situation doesn't matter, it should never happen. there aren't two sides to this argument!
 
2012-02-13 09:31:36 PM

T. Dawg: I wonder how rape apologists' arguments would apply to other situations. Blaming the victim would seem to be so contrary to the Party of Personal Responsibility.


Not necessarily. Blaming the victim, at least in part, is a very common rationalization. Hypothetically, it stems from a desire to believe that we live in a just and ordered universe. We don't want to believe that we live in a chaotic and uncaring universe, and so we rationalize that somehow the victim must have deserved what happened to them or foolishly ignored the warning signs along their path.

The "Party of Personal Responsibility" is also overtly more religious. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they were more inclined to rationalize just why it is bad things seem to happen to people for no immediately obvious reason.
 
2012-02-13 09:32:25 PM

watson.t.hamster: Biological Ali: watson.t.hamster

Okay, with those last couple posts I think we've now moved well beyond the point where I find it plausible that you're actually saying these things in earnest.

I'll admit it, you got me - though in fairness, that was because it took me a while to figure out your shtick. You might as well fess up now, since it looks like others are starting to get wise to it too.

My schtick: state pretty common sense things and face an onslaught of lies and misrepresentations? I guess, although the second half is on you.


No, it is to state stupid farking things. Backpedal...weave...dodge until you find some footing, some point that you hadn't originally made that sounds close to rational, say it was your point all along and then blame people for thinking you are a goddamned troll.
 
2012-02-13 09:32:46 PM

GhostFish: T. Dawg: I wonder how rape apologists' arguments would apply to other situations. Blaming the victim would seem to be so contrary to the Party of Personal Responsibility.

Not necessarily. Blaming the victim, at least in part, is a very common rationalization. Hypothetically, it stems from a desire to believe that we live in a just and ordered universe. We don't want to believe that we live in a chaotic and uncaring universe, and so we rationalize that somehow the victim must have deserved what happened to them or foolishly ignored the warning signs along their path.

The "Party of Personal Responsibility" is also overtly more religious. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they were more inclined to rationalize just why it is bad things seem to happen to people for no immediately obvious reason.


Just World fallacy: At some level, the cause or catalyst of most of the great evils in the world.
 
2012-02-13 09:32:57 PM

Biological Ali: Shoot, I can't believe this gem slipped past me in all that brouhaha:

watson.t.hamster: Notice how she could have called a cab and still had drinks

So instead of being driven home by a guy she does know, a "wiser" option would be to pay for the privilege of being driven home by a guy she doesn't know at all. Comedy gold!


Women are more likely to get raped by someone they know, except when it's convenient to change that argument.


My own guess would be that the base rates won't be that different and you'd end up getting raped about as often.


Oh ok, well as long as you make up something.
 
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