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(Denver Channel)   Colorado has finally had enough of the HOA shenanigans   (thedenverchannel.com) divider line 338
    More: Hero, HOA, Colorado, Denver, homeowners associations, Seven News, incompetence  
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32598 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Feb 2012 at 3:25 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-13 01:08:51 PM
But who will police the HOA police?

/The Coast Guard?
 
2012-02-13 01:10:59 PM
I never really understood how HOAs were even legal in the first place. Regulating them isn't the answer. Outlawing them is.
 
2012-02-13 01:22:47 PM
I was told by Republicans that regulation is a bad thing, always. I mean, these people should be happy they get to live in an economically free society where HOAs aren't hamstrung by inefficient and draconian government regulation.

Chris Pacetti of the Rocky Mountain Chapter of the Community Associations Institute says his group is trying to establish a level of professionalism and performance in the industry following complaints that included embezzlement and incompetence.

I mean, who wants to stop that?
 
2012-02-13 01:29:27 PM
My in-laws had a new home built in a neighborhood run by an HOA. They made sure that everything about the house met the covenant agreement.

In their first meeting of the neighborhood group, they were yelled at for 30 minutes for having brown shutters/trim instead of white shutters/trim.

So, in a show of their respect for the neighbor's opinions, they went full-Griswold with their Christmas lights.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2012-02-13 01:32:27 PM

Rev.K: I was told by Republicans that regulation is a bad thing, always. I mean, these people should be happy they get to live in an economically free society where HOAs aren't hamstrung by inefficient and draconian government regulation.


Stop. Just stop it. This isn't a political issue. There is nothing political in the article. So quit it.
 
2012-02-13 01:36:39 PM

scottydoesntknow: But who will police the HOA police?

/The Coast Guard?


The Police Owners Association - prominent businessmen, drug dealers buying them off, crooked judges, and their union
 
2012-02-13 01:38:04 PM

Vodka Zombie: I never really understood how HOAs were even legal in the first place. Regulating them isn't the answer. Outlawing them is.


I live on a private road - an HOA is necessary, as we are all jointly responsible for upkeep of the road. Road upkeep is also the only thing the HOA is allowed to police though, and there's only three of us here anyway.
 
2012-02-13 01:46:14 PM

Rev.K: I was told by Republicans that regulation is a bad thing, always. I mean, these people should be happy they get to live in an economically free society where HOAs aren't hamstrung by inefficient and draconian government regulation.

Chris Pacetti of the Rocky Mountain Chapter of the Community Associations Institute says his group is trying to establish a level of professionalism and performance in the industry following complaints that included embezzlement and incompetence.

I mean, who wants to stop that?


.......Really? We could be talking about teddy bears and someone would come in with some whargharbll about how republicans/democrats are destroying this country with their teddy bear regulations
 
2012-02-13 01:52:36 PM

EatHam: I live on a private road - an HOA is necessary


I live on a private road, too. And there's no HOA anywhere near here. When the road needs maintenance, we meet as neighbors and plan accordingly.
 
2012-02-13 02:01:41 PM
I really don't understand why anyone would buy into such an arrangement. If you want someone else to dictate what you can and can not do on your own property, you might as well just rent.
 
2012-02-13 02:08:06 PM

Pocket Ninja: EatHam: I live on a private road - an HOA is necessary

I live on a private road, too. And there's no HOA anywhere near here. When the road needs maintenance, we meet as neighbors and plan accordingly.


So you just associate with the homeowners to settle your neighborhood problems?
 
2012-02-13 02:13:39 PM

Pocket Ninja: EatHam: I live on a private road - an HOA is necessary

I live on a private road, too. And there's no HOA anywhere near here. When the road needs maintenance, we meet as neighbors and plan accordingly.


As do we - the only thing is that as it is an HOA, it has the authority to enforce payment. Say one of the three wants to be a douche bag about paying for snow removal. It hasn't come up, but it could, and if it does, it can be handled.
 
2012-02-13 02:14:12 PM

jaylectricity: So you just associate with the homeowners to settle your neighborhood problems?


It's INSANITY.
 
2012-02-13 02:17:29 PM

EatHam: As do we - the only thing is that as it is an HOA, it has the authority to enforce payment. Say one of the three wants to be a douche bag about paying for snow removal. It hasn't come up, but it could, and if it does, it can be handled.


That's how it begins. Then the next thing you know there's a rule about allowable curtain shades, regulations against porch couches, and you're being issued a citation for building a trebuchet. The Nazi party started just this way, that's a fact.
 
2012-02-13 02:18:38 PM

EatHam: Pocket Ninja: EatHam: I live on a private road - an HOA is necessary

I live on a private road, too. And there's no HOA anywhere near here. When the road needs maintenance, we meet as neighbors and plan accordingly.

As do we - the only thing is that as it is an HOA, it has the authority to enforce payment. Say one of the three wants to be a douche bag about paying for snow removal. It hasn't come up, but it could, and if it does, it can be handled.


And you can't handle it without a HOA?
 
2012-02-13 02:19:02 PM

Pocket Ninja: That's how it begins. Then the next thing you know there's a rule about allowable curtain shades, regulations against porch couches, and you're being issued a citation for building a trebuchet. The Nazi party started just this way, that's a fact.


Yes, well, I want the road to be plowed in the winter, and I'm not going to pay the whole thing myself.
 
2012-02-13 02:21:04 PM

EatHam: Pocket Ninja: That's how it begins. Then the next thing you know there's a rule about allowable curtain shades, regulations against porch couches, and you're being issued a citation for building a trebuchet. The Nazi party started just this way, that's a fact.

Yes, well, I want the road to be plowed in the winter, and I'm not going to pay the whole thing myself.


Thats what Hitler said about Poland so he got the Russians involved.
 
2012-02-13 02:26:04 PM

wee: Stop. Just stop it. This isn't a political issue. There is nothing political in the article. So quit it.


A Colorado task force studying problems with homeowner associations says continuing conflicts and complaints are prompting demands for state regulation.

Colorado lawmakers created a resource center in 2010 to handle complaints that totaled about 500 last year.


Nope. Entirely apolitical.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2012-02-13 02:41:49 PM

Rev.K: Nope. Entirely apolitical.


Would you please just give it a rest?
 
2012-02-13 02:43:33 PM

Backwards Cornfield Races: EatHam: Pocket Ninja: EatHam: I live on a private road - an HOA is necessary

I live on a private road, too. And there's no HOA anywhere near here. When the road needs maintenance, we meet as neighbors and plan accordingly.

As do we - the only thing is that as it is an HOA, it has the authority to enforce payment. Say one of the three wants to be a douche bag about paying for snow removal. It hasn't come up, but it could, and if it does, it can be handled.

And you can't handle it without a HOA?


If one of the three homeowners became a complete asshole and decided they just didn't want to pay for snow removal anymore, no matter how badly the other two treated them, how would they handle it without some legal framework in place?

Of if a new homeowner moved in and said, "Nah, I didn't agree to pay for snow removal."...
 
2012-02-13 02:56:15 PM
It's sad to me that HOAs even exist at all. They are inherently authoritarian and contrary to what this country was supposed to be about.
 
2012-02-13 02:56:32 PM

Vodka Zombie: I never really understood how HOAs were even legal in the first place. Regulating them isn't the answer. Outlawing them is.


How would they not be illegal? It's just a contractual relationship.
 
2012-02-13 02:57:07 PM

DamnYankees: Vodka Zombie: I never really understood how HOAs were even legal in the first place. Regulating them isn't the answer. Outlawing them is.

How would they not be illegal legal? It's just a contractual relationship.


FTFM
 
2012-02-13 03:01:12 PM

dudemanbro: It's sad to me that HOAs even exist at all. They are inherently authoritarian and contrary to what this country was supposed to be about.


The right of citizens to enter into contracts, with their disclosed benefits and costs, is a fundamental right. Not really understanding what's so controversial here.
 
2012-02-13 03:02:43 PM

dudemanbro: It's sad to me that HOAs even exist at all. They are inherently authoritarian and contrary to what this country was supposed to be about.


Let's be more melodramatic, shall we?
 
2012-02-13 03:10:18 PM

Vodka Zombie: I never really understood how HOAs were even legal in the first place. Regulating them isn't the answer. Outlawing them is.


How are they illegal? All the neighbors agree on the bylaws when its started. Or, at the very least, you agree when you buy a house in the neighborhood. Which you're free to not do.

We have a historic commission that ensures our neighborhood stays looking like it has since the 1800s... since we all dig the charm, and it brings in tourist money. I knew that going in, and had no issue with it. It adds a level of red-tape to any street-facing work you do on the house... but I was free to not live here if that bothered me.
 
2012-02-13 03:14:49 PM

MisterTweak: dudemanbro: It's sad to me that HOAs even exist at all. They are inherently authoritarian and contrary to what this country was supposed to be about.

The right of citizens to enter into contracts, with their disclosed benefits and costs, is a fundamental right. Not really understanding what's so controversial here.


I think its the whole "having legal dominion over land you don't actually own thing." Especially when new people want to move in on said land they actually purchased and own.
 
2012-02-13 03:21:07 PM

Somacandra: Especially when new people want to move in on said land they actually purchased and own.


They purchased it, and own it, subject to a contract not to do certain things without HOA approval. Suck it up (not you, them).
 
2012-02-13 03:22:37 PM

downstairs: but I was free to not live here if that bothered me.


Once a given situation has reached this level of after-the-fact rationalization, it should be incorporated as an official government entity. A neighboorhood is a public place, and those asserting authority over it need official checks and balances like other public spaces. A quasi-private entity asserting unaccountable control over a public space is just asking for unacceptably large levels of douchebaggery.
 
2012-02-13 03:24:08 PM

Somacandra: A quasi-private entity asserting unaccountable control over a public space is just asking for unacceptably large levels of douchebaggery.


They don't control the public space. They control the private spaces. HOA's don't have any power over streets, for example (as far as I know).
 
2012-02-13 03:25:18 PM

DamnYankees: They purchased it, and own it, subject to a contract not to do certain things without HOA approval. Suck it up (not you, them).


As a lawyer, wouldn't you be the first to acknowledge that only an accountable government entity should be able to assert dominion over a private space owned by someone else? That's sort of the whole point behind property rights and safeguards for individual liberty.
 
2012-02-13 03:26:45 PM
From TFA's comments: "The BEST law Colorado could implement regarding these little fiefdoms is to strip them of ALL of their power except for the management of the common areas, e.g. club houses, swimming pools, green space, etc.. "

Sounds to me like a good idea everywhere there are HOA's.
 
2012-02-13 03:28:12 PM
Yeah, get state government involved, that'll solve everything. No chance of incompetence or cronyism then!
 
2012-02-13 03:28:23 PM

DamnYankees: They don't control the public space. They control the private spaces.


Asserting dominion over space owned by someone else is a function normally associated with accountable government entities like police and fire--not private associations.
 
2012-02-13 03:28:36 PM

Somacandra: As a lawyer, wouldn't you be the first to acknowledge that only an accountable government entity should be able to assert dominion over a private space owned by someone else?


Um, no? What does "private" mean in this context. You have contracted with another entity to make joint decisions over, lets say, your fence. What's wrong with that? There's no violation of privacy. You agreed to let these people have a veto over your stuff.
 
2012-02-13 03:29:23 PM

Somacandra: Asserting dominion over space owned by someone else is a function normally associated with accountable government entities like police and fire--not private associations.


It's not dominion, it's contract. The HOA has a contractual right to veto your space in certain situations - a right YOU GAVE THEM! There's no 'dominion'.
 
2012-02-13 03:29:50 PM

DamnYankees: Somacandra: A quasi-private entity asserting unaccountable control over a public space is just asking for unacceptably large levels of douchebaggery.

They don't control the public space. They control the private spaces. HOA's don't have any power over streets, for example (as far as I know).


That's the whole farking reason for many HOAs. The builders don't want to pay for the common infrastructure like streets and lights, the government doesn't want to pay for it either, so the payments go to the HOA.
 
2012-02-13 03:30:01 PM

Blues_X: My in-laws had a new home built in a neighborhood run by an HOA. They made sure that everything about the house met the covenant agreement.

In their first meeting of the neighborhood group, they were yelled at for 30 minutes for having brown shutters/trim instead of white shutters/trim.

So, in a show of their respect for the neighbor's opinions, they went full-Griswold with their Christmas lights.


Never go full Griswold.
 
2012-02-13 03:30:02 PM
Oh, good, a HOA thread. I've been looking for some calm, rational discussion, full of tales of well-intentioned people working out their differences in a polite and agreeable fashion.
 
TWX
2012-02-13 03:30:20 PM

Pocket Ninja: EatHam: As do we - the only thing is that as it is an HOA, it has the authority to enforce payment. Say one of the three wants to be a douche bag about paying for snow removal. It hasn't come up, but it could, and if it does, it can be handled.

That's how it begins. Then the next thing you know there's a rule about allowable curtain shades, regulations against porch couches, and you're being issued a citation for building a trebuchet. The Nazi party started just this way, that's a fact.


Heh. That's what CC&Rs are for, which are handled by a municpality's Code Enforcement division or through civil lawsuits.

/would never live in an HOA neighborhood
//would never live in a neighborhood that places unreasonable restrictions on the construction of Trebuchets either
 
2012-02-13 03:30:30 PM

Pocket Ninja: EatHam: As do we - the only thing is that as it is an HOA, it has the authority to enforce payment. Say one of the three wants to be a douche bag about paying for snow removal. It hasn't come up, but it could, and if it does, it can be handled.

That's how it begins. Then the next thing you know there's a rule about allowable curtain shades, regulations against porch couches, and you're being issued a citation for building a trebuchet. The Nazi party started just this way, that's a fact.


So that's why there were no Nazi trebuchets.
 
2012-02-13 03:32:21 PM
Which is interesting considering one of the cheapest and best run HOAs in the nation(Highlands Ranch) is in Colorado, and it offers more than any other HOA I've ever seen
 
2012-02-13 03:32:34 PM

downstairs: Vodka Zombie: I never really understood how HOAs were even legal in the first place. Regulating them isn't the answer. Outlawing them is.

How are they illegal? All the neighbors agree on the bylaws when its started. Or, at the very least, you agree when you buy a house in the neighborhood. Which you're free to not do.

We have a historic commission that ensures our neighborhood stays looking like it has since the 1800s... since we all dig the charm, and it brings in tourist money. I knew that going in, and had no issue with it. It adds a level of red-tape to any street-facing work you do on the house... but I was free to not live here if that bothered me.


Well, that's the sticking point. How are they able to make it so that you must join the HOA in order to buy the house? Is it up to the contractor who sells you the house? As in, "no, I won't sell unless you join the HOA"?
 
2012-02-13 03:32:35 PM
I rent, but plan on purchasing a home in the near future.

Existence of an HOA is an automatic dis-qualifier for any home I might think about purchasing. Just not going to happen.
 
2012-02-13 03:32:36 PM

downstairs: Vodka Zombie: I never really understood how HOAs were even legal in the first place. Regulating them isn't the answer. Outlawing them is.

How are they illegal? All the neighbors agree on the bylaws when its started. Or, at the very least, you agree when you buy a house in the neighborhood. Which you're free to not do.

We have a historic commission that ensures our neighborhood stays looking like it has since the 1800s... since we all dig the charm, and it brings in tourist money. I knew that going in, and had no issue with it. It adds a level of red-tape to any street-facing work you do on the house... but I was free to not live here if that bothered me.


You sound much too reasonable - what if you want to park 3 fairlanes on your front lawn - sans wheels of course and put up a kiddie pool and playset in the front yard - this is america dammit we deserve our white trash way of life even if we sign the HOA before we purchased the house and were to dumb to read it and the fine print... I'd run-on this sentence more, but I think I've kicked this dead horse enough - which is yet another thing you never see in an HOA neighborhood - horses.
 
2012-02-13 03:32:56 PM

Backwards Cornfield Races: EatHam: Pocket Ninja: EatHam: I live on a private road - an HOA is necessary

I live on a private road, too. And there's no HOA anywhere near here. When the road needs maintenance, we meet as neighbors and plan accordingly.

As do we - the only thing is that as it is an HOA, it has the authority to enforce payment. Say one of the three wants to be a douche bag about paying for snow removal. It hasn't come up, but it could, and if it does, it can be handled.

And you can't handle it without a HOA?


Yeah. Plow all the snow into the end of said douchebags driveway.
 
2012-02-13 03:33:40 PM

Backwards Cornfield Races: As do we - the only thing is that as it is an HOA, it has the authority to enforce payment. Say one of the three wants to be a douche bag about paying for snow removal. It hasn't come up, but it could, and if it does, it can be handled.

And you can't handle it without a HOA?


Nope. If 2 of you want to pay for snow removal, or road repair, and one doesn't, there's really no way to force them to pay. They get to be a free rider. Having a basic HOA for road maintenance allows you to force all to pay whether they want to or not.
 
2012-02-13 03:33:46 PM
HOA powers should be limited, but all this will do is get the state tax agency involved.
 
2012-02-13 03:33:54 PM
So he moved into a non-deed restricted neighborhood? Good for him.
 
2012-02-13 03:34:08 PM

Pocket Ninja: When the road needs maintenance, we meet as neighbors and plan accordingly.


And when 4 neighbors say that they aren't pitching in because times are tough, what do you do?
 
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