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(C|Net)   Mozilla to Google, Microsoft, Apple: Oh it's on. It's on like donkey kong   (news.cnet.com) divider line 43
    More: Followup, Mozilla, Google, Microsoft, web standards, Chrome OS, viewable image size, not-for-profit organizations, mobile operating system  
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7376 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Feb 2012 at 5:09 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



43 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-02-13 03:58:35 PM  
Did my 7-year old son submit this?
 
2012-02-13 04:17:31 PM  
Jay Sullivan reminds me of Chris Hansen. Did you read TFA? Please have a seat over here.
 
2012-02-13 05:26:49 PM  
Working hard to get those sweet sweet cakes from MS again?

/The cupcakes were just not enough
 
2012-02-13 05:29:32 PM  
I hope they succeed. F*ck platform lock in. If there's anything that could pull me away from Android, it's something like this, but I doubt they have the resources to pull it off.
 
2012-02-13 05:40:11 PM  
Good luck with that.
 
2012-02-13 05:47:35 PM  

dstanley: Did my 7-year old son submit this?


Thanks a lot, Dad. You condescending prick. I'm only 7.
 
2012-02-13 05:48:43 PM  
How is Amazon's digital music store part of the problem? It's all DRM-free mp3's.
 
2012-02-13 05:55:50 PM  
Oh you, Mozilla.

10 years down the road from where you began as a crap-free, bug-free, lightweight alternative web browser alternative you have become your own Darth Vader, the free, heavyweight crap-filled buggy web browser.

And as many former Firefox users bask in the bitter sting of schadenfreude as Google Chrome takes over your market share, all you can seem to do is stare at your hands and mumble about how the Web should be free and it belongs to the world.

And thank goodness for that, because the Web and the world has happily decided to pass you by.
 
2012-02-13 06:00:43 PM  
A non-profit foundation up against three corporations, two of which are known as particularly aggressive.

I'll go get the blood towels.

Please, Mozilla, before trying to beat three companies that are already doing a good job without you, FIX FIREFOX.

/Opera user
 
2012-02-13 06:01:43 PM  

avalanche: How is Amazon's digital music store part of the problem? It's all DRM-free mp3's.


Actually it's the Amazon App Store. Which is the only App Store available on the Fire. So if you bought Apps in the Android Market on your phone, they don't transfer over. Unless you manually copy the .apk's over and install. But that's a pain in the butt, especially when the developer updates something.
 
2012-02-13 06:21:10 PM  
But you can use, at least, Market or Amazon apps on the Android smartphones. And you don't have to use Google Music (there's a Google Music?), you can use whatever you feel like. Mozilla's idea is a cool one though. You'll know it has traction when it gets banned from the iOS app store.
 
2012-02-13 06:21:35 PM  
This isn't a bad idea, specifically the idea of "letting users download an app once, not once from every market." That would be awesome if you wanted to jump between these "ecosystems," as it were.
 
2012-02-13 06:26:45 PM  

BizarreMan: avalanche: How is Amazon's digital music store part of the problem? It's all DRM-free mp3's.

Actually it's the Amazon App Store. Which is the only App Store available on the Fire. So if you bought Apps in the Android Market on your phone, they don't transfer over. Unless you manually copy the .apk's over and install. But that's a pain in the butt, especially when the developer updates something.


I'm trying to understand what Firefox has to do with this situation.
 
2012-02-13 06:32:09 PM  

theurge14: Oh you, Mozilla.

10 years down the road from where you began as a crap-free, bug-free, lightweight alternative web browser alternative you have become your own Darth Vader, the free, heavyweight crap-filled buggy web browser.

And as many former Firefox users bask in the bitter sting of schadenfreude as Google Chrome takes over your market share, all you can seem to do is stare at your hands and mumble about how the Web should be free and it belongs to the world.

And thank goodness for that, because the Web and the world has happily decided to pass you by.


That's nice, but they are right about the lock-in problem. I don't see what they intend to do about it, though.
 
2012-02-13 06:33:20 PM  
Maybe they can start with making a browser that isn't a complete resource hog on the Mac? I'm on the latest Lion, and on whatever Firefox deems the latest release, and it just chugs along while Chrome screams.

Seriously, why do they bother with Mac versions? It's clear they don't take the platform seriously.
 
2012-02-13 06:33:56 PM  
Way to step up Mozilla!

Fark for profit browsers!

avalanche: How is Amazon's digital music store part of the problem? It's all DRM-free mp3's.


DRM-free mp3's what?
 
2012-02-13 06:34:18 PM  

theurge14: BizarreMan: avalanche: How is Amazon's digital music store part of the problem? It's all DRM-free mp3's.

Actually it's the Amazon App Store. Which is the only App Store available on the Fire. So if you bought Apps in the Android Market on your phone, they don't transfer over. Unless you manually copy the .apk's over and install. But that's a pain in the butt, especially when the developer updates something.

I'm trying to understand what Firefox has to do with this situation.


Sounds like they're planning on making apps that truly live on the web such that it won't matter what device you're using to get there.

This way, you can play Angry Birds in a webapp running in a browser, running on a JVM, running on the actual OS, running on the hardware. I'm just glad to see we're moving towards a architecture that's designed to really maximize the battery life of these portable devices...

/Though, it'd be nice for developers
//and more portable for consumers
 
2012-02-13 06:36:55 PM  
This plan has already been updated to version 3.0 at the time of this posting. By the time you read this, it will be at version 7.0.
 
2012-02-13 06:42:58 PM  

Marine1: A non-profit foundation up against three corporations, two of which are known as particularly aggressive.

I'll go get the blood towels.

Please, Mozilla, before trying to beat three companies that are already doing a good job without you, FIX FIREFOX.

/Opera user



Wow. Before I switched to Chrome I thought I was the only Opera user out there. I usually switch browsers once every couple years, and I think I'm due a turn on Opera this time...
 
2012-02-13 07:01:03 PM  

mongbiohazard: Marine1: A non-profit foundation up against three corporations, two of which are known as particularly aggressive.

I'll go get the blood towels.

Please, Mozilla, before trying to beat three companies that are already doing a good job without you, FIX FIREFOX.

/Opera user


Wow. Before I switched to Chrome I thought I was the only Opera user out there. I usually switch browsers once every couple years, and I think I'm due a turn on Opera this time...


Opera makes a great mobile browser. The only reason I would consider putting it on desktop is for easy sync of bookmarks. Not really a bad reason, either.


BTW, anyone know of there is a good FireBug alternative for Chrome?
 
2012-02-13 07:18:10 PM  
I don't know, I still like Firefox in general. I'm writing this in FF for Android.
 
2012-02-13 07:39:17 PM  

mongbiohazard: Marine1: A non-profit foundation up against three corporations, two of which are known as particularly aggressive.

I'll go get the blood towels.

Please, Mozilla, before trying to beat three companies that are already doing a good job without you, FIX FIREFOX.

/Opera user


Wow. Before I switched to Chrome I thought I was the only Opera user out there. I usually switch browsers once every couple years, and I think I'm due a turn on Opera this time...


I like the speed dial feature. So ridiculously simple. Should be on every browser.
 
2012-02-13 07:58:35 PM  
Two votes speed dial. I know it's petty and there's probably a plugin for firefox, but it's what is keeping me on Chrome.
 
2012-02-13 08:14:21 PM  
This doesn't sound like it will go far but the point about being locked into an ecosystem is right on.

I already feel tied down to the apps I've purchased on Android. I'd be feeling outright claustrophobic if I was also locked into certain hardware as well...
 
2012-02-13 08:46:56 PM  

pnjunction: This doesn't sound like it will go far but the point about being locked into an ecosystem is right on.

I already feel tied down to the apps I've purchased on Android. I'd be feeling outright claustrophobic if I was also locked into certain hardware as well...


Not really sure what the fuss is all about. When people use Windows on their PC they're purchasing Windows apps, nobody seemed to care then. I suppose that sort of thing matters more on mobile devices, perhaps?
 
2012-02-13 08:54:16 PM  

theurge14: pnjunction: This doesn't sound like it will go far but the point about being locked into an ecosystem is right on.

I already feel tied down to the apps I've purchased on Android. I'd be feeling outright claustrophobic if I was also locked into certain hardware as well...

Not really sure what the fuss is all about. When people use Windows on their PC they're purchasing Windows apps, nobody seemed to care then. I suppose that sort of thing matters more on mobile devices, perhaps?


True enough, but it's more about publishing lock-in I think. If you had to go through the Microsoft App Store(R) to get anything from Adobe, Autodesk, Oracle, Intuit, Valve, etc., I think more people would have a problem with it. You can't just go down to a retailer and buy a piece of software for iOS or Android, so the ecosystem feels a lot more restrictive.
 
2012-02-13 09:14:58 PM  

ProfessorOhki: theurge14: pnjunction: This doesn't sound like it will go far but the point about being locked into an ecosystem is right on.

I already feel tied down to the apps I've purchased on Android. I'd be feeling outright claustrophobic if I was also locked into certain hardware as well...

Not really sure what the fuss is all about. When people use Windows on their PC they're purchasing Windows apps, nobody seemed to care then. I suppose that sort of thing matters more on mobile devices, perhaps?

True enough, but it's more about publishing lock-in I think. If you had to go through the Microsoft App Store(R) to get anything from Adobe, Autodesk, Oracle, Intuit, Valve, etc., I think more people would have a problem with it. You can't just go down to a retailer and buy a piece of software for iOS or Android, so the ecosystem feels a lot more restrictive.



Besides, back in the 90s and 2000s what were PC software purchasing options? Wal-Mart? That one software store at the mall? Even now the choices aren't really all that myriad, I just think the vast amount of platform choices that are available on mobile devices have made the general public have to make decisions they haven't had to make in Microsoft's halcyon days of PC software dominance. Decisions like "what happens to this $1.99 app if I switch devices?" Things that Mac and Linux users have been familiar with for a long time.

What will the general public decide?

Well, for years Wal-Mart had been the top music retailer in America, but at the same time had also been one of the most restrictive stores to buy music for. Album covers edited, song titles changed, other albums and artists outright rejected. And yet consumers flocked to them anyway. I think some of us tend to downplay that type of thinking, perhaps not always understanding it.
 
2012-02-13 09:24:03 PM  

ProfessorOhki: theurge14: pnjunction: This doesn't sound like it will go far but the point about being locked into an ecosystem is right on.

I already feel tied down to the apps I've purchased on Android. I'd be feeling outright claustrophobic if I was also locked into certain hardware as well...

Not really sure what the fuss is all about. When people use Windows on their PC they're purchasing Windows apps, nobody seemed to care then. I suppose that sort of thing matters more on mobile devices, perhaps?

True enough, but it's more about publishing lock-in I think. If you had to go through the Microsoft App Store(R) to get anything from Adobe, Autodesk, Oracle, Intuit, Valve, etc., I think more people would have a problem with it. You can't just go down to a retailer and buy a piece of software for iOS or Android, so the ecosystem feels a lot more restrictive.


Well it is worth noting that Android really is as free as Windows for software, most phones including mine can load non-market apps (or can be rooted to do so), so you're right I shouldn't feel any more tied down that I do with my PC.

Interestingly enough, AFAIK people pushed for Gameloft to bring their apps to the android Market. The Market has advantages like device portability, unlimited re-installs and a return policy that Gameloft wasn't offering. Still it is good to know that if someone went the other way, offering better value and terms than you get on the Market, that I could shop there instead.

Actually can't folks in the US shop at Amazon app store? I always hear about the free/cheap app offers but I can't get that up here (well I haven't looked to hard to get around it).
 
2012-02-13 09:56:00 PM  
Makesmsense. The killer app has been and always will be ...
 
2012-02-13 11:11:16 PM  
Nice to see Mozilla going to down the toilet of who gives a fark. Maybe now they'll stop trying to make browser and focus on just being full time internet snobs.

I like they way they're not interested in any way of people actually making a living providing services on the web. Yes.. let's make it all free so the best information and applications we get will be little Timmy's 8 bit Sponge Bob version of Pong.

Firefox's vision of the internet = horrible.
 
2012-02-13 11:16:36 PM  

theurge14: Besides, back in the 90s and 2000s what were PC software purchasing options? Wal-Mart? That one software store at the mall? Even now the choices aren't really all that myriad, I just think the vast amount of platform choices that are available on mobile devices have made the general public have to make decisions they haven't had to make in Microsoft's halcyon days of PC software dominance. Decisions like "what happens to this $1.99 app if I switch devices?" Things that Mac and Linux users have been familiar with for a long time.


Micro Center, CompUSA, Good Guys, Circuit City, Egghead, and Fry's off the top of my head and there's a ton of little retailers who died out and the mail-order catalogs (anyone remember MacMall/PCMall circulars?). "Even now?" See, that's the thing, there used to be more and then then the Best Buys and the Wal*Marts came into the game.

theurge14: Well, for years Wal-Mart had been the top music retailer in America, but at the same time had also been one of the most restrictive stores to buy music for. Album covers edited, song titles changed, other albums and artists outright rejected. And yet consumers flocked to them anyway. I think some of us tend to downplay that type of thinking, perhaps not always understanding it.


There's more than a few cities in the US who have Wal*Mart as their nearly singular brick-and-mortar retailer.

pnjunction: Well it is worth noting that Android really is as free as Windows for software, most phones including mine can load non-market apps (or can be rooted to do so), so you're right I shouldn't feel any more tied down that I do with my PC.


That's true, but the way it's presented to the user.... eh, I guess it's not distinct from the Linux package management model. I get the feeling most consumers don't realize they have those options though.
 
2012-02-13 11:48:00 PM  
Firefox burned their bridges with me a long time ago.

A long-time bug that caused FF to freeze for a few seconds, every 5 or 6 seconds drove me to Chrome (and as far as I know, it still exists). The stupid change in their versioning scheme has assured I won't be back.

Chrome has worked remarkably well for me.
 
2012-02-13 11:54:27 PM  

kilroy14: Nice to see Mozilla going to down the toilet of who gives a fark. Maybe now they'll stop trying to make browser and focus on just being full time internet snobs.

I like they way they're not interested in any way of people actually making a living providing services on the web. Yes.. let's make it all free so the best information and applications we get will be little Timmy's 8 bit Sponge Bob version of Pong.

Firefox's vision of the internet = horrible.


Tbh, I've never gotten that vibe from them, but then again, my standard for that is Richard Stallman, so...

/we really, really need a good Stallman thread soon.
 
2012-02-14 01:51:19 AM  
one thing that would take down this issue, and it would likely need to be legislated to happen... allow people to resell their purchases. sure you can only sell within the ecosystem, but people can sell all their apps and get out if they want. (it would be super easy to implement, a "sell this app" button generates a code, and takes the rights from you when it is activated on another account)
 
2012-02-14 06:28:51 AM  

kilroy14: Nice to see Mozilla going to down the toilet of who gives a fark. Maybe now they'll stop trying to make browser and focus on just being full time internet snobs.

I like they way they're not interested in any way of people actually making a living providing services on the web. Yes.. let's make it all free so the best information and applications we get will be little Timmy's 8 bit Sponge Bob version of Pong.

Firefox's vision of the internet = horrible.


The point of the article... The one where Mozilla is building an app store for *paid* web apps... To allow web app developers to get *paid* for their work... you missed that, did ya?
 
2012-02-14 07:18:46 AM  

mongbiohazard: Marine1: A non-profit foundation up against three corporations, two of which are known as particularly aggressive.

I'll go get the blood towels.

Please, Mozilla, before trying to beat three companies that are already doing a good job without you, FIX FIREFOX.

/Opera user


Wow. Before I switched to Chrome I thought I was the only Opera user out there. I usually switch browsers once every couple years, and I think I'm due a turn on Opera this time...


I switched to Opera about five minutes after upgrading to Netscape 6 on its release date. Still with it and no plans to change.
 
2012-02-14 08:37:04 AM  

Twice Banned: mongbiohazard: Marine1: A non-profit foundation up against three corporations, two of which are known as particularly aggressive.

I'll go get the blood towels.

Please, Mozilla, before trying to beat three companies that are already doing a good job without you, FIX FIREFOX.

/Opera user


Wow. Before I switched to Chrome I thought I was the only Opera user out there. I usually switch browsers once every couple years, and I think I'm due a turn on Opera this time...

Opera makes a great mobile browser. The only reason I would consider putting it on desktop is for easy sync of bookmarks. Not really a bad reason, either.


BTW, anyone know of there is a good FireBug alternative for Chrome?


It's built in. Just right click on something and click "inspect element"
 
2012-02-14 09:36:37 AM  

theurge14: Not really sure what the fuss is all about. When people use Windows on their PC they're purchasing Windows apps, nobody seemed to care then. I suppose that sort of thing matters more on mobile devices, perhaps?


People replace their phones a lot more frequently than they replace their computers, and they're a lot more likely to switch to a different brand since there's more options and switching to a new service provider often locks you into certain brands (citation needed).
 
2012-02-14 10:03:04 AM  

kilroy14: Nice to see Mozilla going to down the toilet of who gives a fark. Maybe now they'll stop trying to make browser and focus on just being full time internet snobs.

I like they way they're not interested in any way of people actually making a living providing services on the web. Yes.. let's make it all free so the best information and applications we get will be little Timmy's 8 bit Sponge Bob version of Pong.

Firefox's vision of the internet = horrible.


Mozilla isn't trying to stop people from making money. They're trying to get rid of the middlemen and gatekeepers between the application/content providers and the user and allow applications to be portable.

I think the appification of the Internet is one of the more dangerous tech trends of the past few years in that it gives too much power to the app stores and locks applications into certain devices--thus making it harder for users to move to better hardware options when they appear. One might say that Firefox has served its purpose since it helped force other vendors to make better products. So maybe this isn't a bad thing to focus on.
 
2012-02-14 10:28:13 AM  
I still have some time for Mozilla and I do admit I've only scanned TFA so I might of missed something.

But when I run an app on say an iPad, I'm accessing largely content that is stored on that device. When I decide, for example, to hit Google Doc's (or Office 365 or whatever) with mobile Safari the content is not stored on my device.

So not only am I now using electricity to power the device (battery or no someone, somewhere paid to charge it) but also burning my 3G data allowance? To type a document or play Angry Birds or whatever. No. That doesn't sound ideal to my mind.

Now if they were advocating compatibility layers so Android could run iOS apps and plug in to the Apple store and iOS devices get the reverse; yeah, sounds like a plan but no, burning my 3G allowance is something I try to avoid unless I'm, actually surfing, if I'm trying to do something productive I want apps and I want them local.
 
2012-02-14 12:04:07 PM  
Vaneshi:

Offline storage is a feature of HTML5, but I admit I don't know what it's limitations are.
 
2012-02-14 12:04:17 PM  
from TFA: In the first quarter, Mozilla will mark add-ons as compatible by default with new versions of Firefox so the six-week cycle of rapid-release browser upgrades won't be so plagued with breakage

Buried deep in the story. This cannot come soon enough.

Between the insanely fast version numbering changes and this absurd "you must change two bytes of your add-on every three months to fix the 'supported versions' list, just because" is a huge hassle for add-on developers whose code is stable and don't need to update the add-on every three days to fix (mostly) self-introduced bugs.

Add to that Mozilla's redunkulous add-on code review process, which is required if you want your add-on listed and available in Mozilla's directory. In my case, it took their code reviewers six weeks to get around to approving an add-on that, five days after approval, wouldn't install on the latest update, because they revved the version number. So I submitted an update, with only the version number changed, and it took someone another week to look at it.

Look, I understand the need for code review, but this has been a clusterbomb of fail since the version renumbering scheme went into effect.

Is it any wonder add-on developers might be getting a bit peeved with the Foundation?
 
2012-02-14 10:24:23 PM  

redpanda2: Vaneshi:

Offline storage is a feature of HTML5, but I admit I don't know what it's limitations are.


I have a feeling it will turn out to be similar to Steam's Offline Mode. It's a really neat idea and should be quite useful although most of the time it doesn't work and it's something the publisher can have disabled for their game.
 
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