Funny thing is none of them even pays taxes ...

Good for them.
Fark the banks.

Because lending is always the answer to an excessive debt problem.

TravisBickle62: Funny thing is none of them even pays taxes ...

The lower 47 percent pay no taxes. That is correct.
Because lowering taxes is the best way to free the job creators to create jobs and grow the economy.

/If you're an idiot like Ben Stein.

These people are lazy bums. They are rioting because they can no longer retire with full benefits after 10 years of working. Of course, during those years they only had to work 20 hours a week with 4 months of vacation time a year. This is where "social justice" takes a country.

I have the solution, but it's a shame that I can't contact anyone that would listen that would solve the problems of all european economies...

1) Legalize cannabis
2) Kick Greece out of the euro and force it to return to the Drachma
3) Profit!?!?

Ok you probably think, where the hell does the profit come from.

Well lets look at it this way, IF you took out an EU mandate that legalised cannabis, you could then tax it. Taxes raise money for government..but wait, we can also make money in the form of profit & taxes..if we own the entire pipeline.

But how do we make profit margins higher? By getting our source product cheaper. If the Drachma is re-introduced, then we can buy from Greece, EXTREMELY cheaply. (it also has the perfect climate for growing the stuff)

So everyone wins, Governments open up a new source of extremely lucrative revenue, the bottom drops out of the black market, requiring less policing..Greece has an export product, other than tourism..and europe thrives again....ok it might dent the Netherlands economy a bit...but nothing too major.

HotIgneous Intruder: TravisBickle62: Funny thing is none of them even pays taxes ...

The lower 47 percent pay no taxes. That is correct.
Because lowering taxes is the best way to free the job creators to create jobs and grow the economy.

/If you're an idiot like Ben Stein.

Haven't been paying attention, have you? The upper 53 percent haven't been paying much either. That's one of the biggest problems Greece has: tax evasion.

Pshaw. We americans post stiffly worded arguments on the interwebs about how Bush's, and Obama's bailouts that both put us farther into debt. This whole violence thing is so old fashioned.

Austerity for more bailouts == more failure.

The Iceland route is looking better each passing day.

I think one difference between the US and Greece is simply no one is calling the US on its debt. Yet.

chaddsfarkprefect: I think one difference between the US and Greece is simply no one is calling the US on its debt. Yet.

Or that the US has less debt as a percentage of GDP

Or that the US is solvent

Or that the US has its own currency so it can control monetary policy

Or that one country likes to eat rice wrapped in leaves

Let the plundering of the Greek carcass begin.

Then, let the dominoes that trigger the collapse of the EU start to fall.

chaddsfarkprefect: I think one difference between the US and Greece is simply no one is calling the US on its debt. Yet.

Thats because every time they do, America mysteriously engages or threatens to engage them in war.

Whats that Mr Hussein...you want to change your underlying denomination for oil, to Euro's rather than the USD.

We'll be right there to change your mind.

At some point in our future, a leader will be elected that finaly does the right thing and makes the necessary cuts. There will be riots and violence just like in Greece.

/But we will emerge a stronger country in the long term.
//can't say the same for Greece

moel: chaddsfarkprefect: I think one difference between the US and Greece is simply no one is calling the US on its debt. Yet.

Thats because every time they do, America mysteriously engages or threatens to engage them in war.

Whats that Mr Hussein...you want to change your underlying denomination for oil, to Euro's rather than the USD.

We'll be right there to change your mind.

Calling US on their debt isn't the same as trading oil in Euro's, but thanks for playing.

sethstorm: Austerity for more bailouts == more failure.

The Iceland route is looking better each passing day.

Well of course. Austerity isn't intended to work. The only reason the banks are lending is because they know they're getting an entire slave country out of it, and that all the Greek taxes will go to foreign banks instead of their own people. The entire set up is a monetary/moral game to make the average Greek/victim feel like they owe something to the bankers when its basic human dignity to have your needs met. What you're seeing is an entire country being thrown into a perverted debtors' prison where they can still work and all of their money goes to foreign creditors. In other words, indentured servitude/slavery.
This is already what the third world has been doing for the first. Austerity is just a way of keeping nations in perpetual debt so that we can claim all their wealth and deny their people access to their own livelihoods/resources/needs in exchange for our luxuries. This is a special case though because Greece is the first "Western" nation we've done this too.

chaddsfarkprefect: I think one difference between the US and Greece is simply no one is calling the US on its debt. Yet.

That's because America is an empire and the reason Greece and Haiti are farked but we're not is because people are paying us to lend money to us. Probably for a subversive way to make us their client state in the long run. But it would be more accurate to see American "loans" as tribute and look at our trade conditions where we have military bases. Whereas Greece literally had its democracy taken away and put into the hands of private economic institutions as though the country were some giant corporation and the entire populace should be its wage slaves, the only thing giving this any legitimacy is the force of the state and the policeman.
Of course, things are changing for America and given the internal budget pressure/that we've been robbed almost as badly as Greece by the upper class, and depending on changes in military policy in the rest of the world, the American empire may just be negotiating its dissolution soon (I mean as an empire and not as a country).

Hmmm... Looks like I picked a good time NOT to vacation there.

I don't get it.

Your government is broke. Your country is broke. They are doing what they need to do to get a loan.

How, exactly, does rioting, destruction of property, and throwing things at cops help in ANY way?!?!?!?!

m2313: This is a special case though because Greece is the first "Western" nation we've done this too.

No, Western banks may be perpetuating it, but ultimately it's because the Greek people have done it to themselves. The PM(or whoever it was) that said they should let the people vote on what to do(like they did in Iceland) was doing the right thing until he backed off due to foreign pressure. Their leaders farked their country when given ample opportunity to LEAD them out of the mess.

lordaction: These people are lazy bums. They are rioting because they can no longer retire with full benefits after 10 years of working. Of course, during those years they only had to work 20 hours a week with 4 months of vacation time a year. This is where "social justice" takes a country.

YES...., clearly, this is the ONLY possible outcome of caring about social justice.

Your intellect is truly dizzying.

SpectroBoy: lordaction: These people are lazy bums. They are rioting because they can no longer retire with full benefits after 10 years of working. Of course, during those years they only had to work 20 hours a week with 4 months of vacation time a year. This is where "social justice" takes a country.

YES...., clearly, this is the ONLY possible outcome of caring about social justice.

Your intellect is truly dizzying.

"Social justice" also demands that people pay their taxes.

liam76:
Calling US on their debt isn't the same as trading oil in Euro's, but thanks for playing.

Thanks for the sarcastic comment...but if you think that the US won't get all 'fighty' in an attempt to stave off the inevitable...then you are highly mistaken. (Remember winning a war = resources, resources = money)

Ultimately, the US faces the same issues that every other country does...which is, that the whole system was designed from the beginning to grow and grow and grow and grow, and then fail in this manner.

US debt, just like Greek debt is completely unsustainable. Percentages of GDP, is completely irrelevant. The US is stuck in almost exactly the same position as the Greek government, in that the government is paralysed by it's people, and it's opposition. It can't push thru the necessary cuts in spending..and as a result, you are going to shiat out and go bust just like everyone else!

Basically we are all stuffed!

It would be best if everyone would starve in an orderly and above all quietly obedient manner.

There are a few people who must be paid whatever amount they feel is necessary. Pay up or let chaos reign.

Question of the day: What is the difference between loan sharks and the IMF?

Answer: The IMF has nicer suits and bigger guns.

xanadian: I wonder what we would do in America if we enacted severe austerity measures... probably set up tents in some park somewhere and wait for a cop to hit us with the pepper spray.

Don't forget pooping on police cars.

HotIgneous Intruder: TravisBickle62: Funny thing is none of them even pays taxes ...

The lower 47 percent pay no taxes. That is correct.
Because lowering taxes is the best way to free the job creators to create jobs and grow the economy.

/If you're an idiot like Ben Stein.

Yes, you're right they are in this predicament 1000 times worse than their neighbors because they didn't tax the rich enough.

It had nothing to do with welfare for everyone, retire with full benefits at 55 leading to more people sucking the tit of the government than putting milk in....

spicorama: At some point in our future, a leader will be elected that finaly does the right thing and makes the necessary cuts. There will be riots and violence just like in Greece.

/But we will emerge a stronger country in the long term.
//can't say the same for Greece

moel: Thanks for the sarcastic comment...but if you think that the US won't get all 'fighty' in an attempt to stave off the inevitable...then you are highly mistaken. (Remember winning a war = resources, resources = money)

Sorry but that doesn't have fark all to dow ith calling the US on their debt. There was nothing sarcastic in pointing ot you were flat out wrong with yoru Iraq comparison.

As to your new claim of war and resources, where is the resources ro money we got from "winning" in Iraq?

moel: US debt, just like Greek debt is completely unsustainable. Percentages of GDP, is completely irrelevant. The US is stuck in almost exactly the same position as the Greek government, in that the government is paralysed by it's people, and it's opposition. It can't push thru the necessary cuts in spending..and as a result, you are going to shiat out and go bust just like everyone else!

So if the dominican republic had the same amoutn of debt as the Us it wouldn;t be any worse for thwem? that is really what you are going to try and run with?

chaddsfarkprefect: I think one difference between the US and Greece is simply no one is calling the US on its debt. Yet.

The US holds enough debt to take down entire countries.

The US holds enough weaponry to take down the entire world.

Any questions?

Look what they did to the place. It's in ruins.

spicorama: At some point in our future, a leader will be elected that finaly does the right thing and makes the necessary cuts. There will be riots and violence just like in Greece.

Why would we need to make cuts?

Mr. Fiscal Discipline himself, Germany, spends 43.7% of their GDP as government spending.

The US? 38.9%

Greece was at 46.8% in 2011, which isn't much more than Germany, and is at a level less than England(47.3), France (52.8), or the Scandanavian countries spent.


It's not spending that's the problem. It's refusing to pay for that spending that is the problem. Greece has massive tax evasion issues.

bhcompy: m2313: This is a special case though because Greece is the first "Western" nation we've done this too.

No, Western banks may be perpetuating it, but ultimately it's because the Greek people have done it to themselves. The PM(or whoever it was) that said they should let the people vote on what to do(like they did in Iceland) was doing the right thing until he backed off due to foreign pressure. Their leaders farked their country when given ample opportunity to LEAD them out of the mess.

And everyone was held responsible for what a few financial and political leaders who didn't listen to the people did. And even that's out of the window since their government isn't even really their government any more, it's just an economic junta instead of a military one. "Unity government" and a banker PM.
The government is essentially selling the people out to the banks. The government and banks are complicit with each other and had been carrying on lies/charades for quite some time.
They've had general strikes and mass protests. They've had hundreds of thousands of people come out to say their word. And the government still sold them out to private interests instead of defaulting.
Arguing whether or not the banks or the government or more responsible is arguing two sides of the same coin. But I'm not surprised that people are revolting over having their sovereignty and freedom sold out private institutiions by their government.
And aside from all that, when there are supermarkets full of food, houses to be had but people are locked out from them and told to just starve or freeze meekly, to get jobs where there are none, to tolerate the police beating and assaulting them even at peaceful protests (and often cooperating with the fascists in migrant pogroms or assaults on migrant street vendors), banks are still making money, and the government is going along with it, I'd expect looting, and attacks on police, banks and government institutions as well. That's not all they attacked and rioting isn't really a reasoned ordeal, but you can only push someone so hard before they decide to shove back.

moel: liam76:
...Percentages of GDP, is completely irrelevant...

Here is where your post went to stupid. The general sentiment about what you are saying is fine, but %GDP is FAR from irrelevant.

Perhaps these terms will make more sense - Someone who makes $250K a year takes out a $10K loan, someone who makes $15K a year takes out a $10K loan.

Is the burden of that debt the same for each individual?

/In case you need help, the answer is hell no.

lordaction: These people are lazy bums. They are rioting because they can no longer retire with full benefits after 10 years of working. Of course, during those years they only had to work 20 hours a week with 4 months of vacation time a year. This is where "social justice" takes a country.

I met an American airforce guy the other day, in Germany. He must have been in his thirties - he talked about retiring in a few years time.

To be fair to the Greek people, it's not all from skimping taxes and splurging vacations. What money the government did have is said to have been horribly mismanaged. Also apparently they like to just riot and throw out their government every few hundred years or so.

/Was there during the June/July riots.
//Stay away from the white smoke.

themanuf: moel: liam76:
...Percentages of GDP, is completely irrelevant...

Here is where your post went to stupid. The general sentiment about what you are saying is fine, but %GDP is FAR from irrelevant.

Perhaps these terms will make more sense - Someone who makes $250K a year takes out a $10K loan, someone who makes $15K a year takes out a $10K loan.

Is the burden of that debt the same for each individual?

/In case you need help, the answer is hell no.

See also: nearly every twenty and thirty-something in the First World -- the student loan bubble combined with a horrific job market for late gen x and "millenials" is going to spell some serious trouble.

SpectroBoy: I don't get it.

Your government is broke. Your country is broke. They are doing what they need to do to get a loan.

How, exactly, does rioting, destruction of property, and throwing things at cops help in ANY way?!?!?!?!

Someone has never spent time in Greece.

When ITALIANS call you lazy and hard to work with...you know you are farked.

xanadian: I wonder what we would do in America if we enacted severe austerity measures... probably set up tents in some park somewhere and wait for a cop to hit us with the pepper spray.

Compared to much of Europe, we already have them.

Trance750: HotIgneous Intruder: TravisBickle62: Funny thing is none of them even pays taxes ...

The lower 47 percent pay no taxes. That is correct.
Because lowering taxes is the best way to free the job creators to create jobs and grow the economy.

/If you're an idiot like Ben Stein.

Or raise taxes when people can't even afford to put bread on the table

/If you're an idiot like Barbara Boxer

Yeah, poor multi-million and billionaires, they just can't afford the good kobe beef anymore, or the massaged organic onions. How is a ultra-wealthy American supposed to put food on the table these days?

radiumsoup: syberpud: That's one of the biggest problems Greece has: tax evasion.

Perhaps it is, but they're not rioting because rich people "aren't paying their fair share"... they're rioting because their free government handouts are being cut, and they might have to... *gasp* ...actually contribute themselves in order to receive any more handouts in the future.

Or because they're contributing and not getting paid or compensated. Or because they're not allowed to contribute.
And when all your tax money is "contributing" to foreign banks instead of your own country, that's not much incentive either.
There is none more entitled than the MPs/PMs and the bankers. But it's the people who are entitled when they refuse to be slaves, of course.

xanadian: PacManDreaming: [i.imgur.com image 325x400]

/Q&D

Haven't seen those two in ages.

Thank you, I needed that .

Coming on a Bicycle: lordaction: These people are lazy bums. They are rioting because they can no longer retire with full benefits after 10 years of working. Of course, during those years they only had to work 20 hours a week with 4 months of vacation time a year. This is where "social justice" takes a country.

I met an American airforce guy the other day, in Germany. He must have been in his thirties - he talked about retiring in a few years time.

I would guess that the majority of people who "retire" from the US military in their 30s then go on to work in the private sector for another 20-30 years or so.