Not in the long run, yuo can't.

Grown?
Groan.

It helps when your bank regulators are armed.

They should just transfer it to another card. At least they got all those Skymiles so that should cut down on expenses for a few years.

Subby apparently missed out on the debt ceiling debate last summer. Or at least any of the sane arguments regarding the debt.

I think it's hilarious that people actually think all of this debt is ever going to get paid back.

/Hint: It's not.

Extend and pretend.

I'm sure this isn't a forecast to anything bad at all.

This is the economy that's going to surpass ours, right?

China looks more and more like Japan of 20 years ago.

AbbeySomeone: Grown?
Groan.

Gloan.

Kramer : They just write it off .

Jerry : Write it off what ?

Kramer : Jerry all these big companies they write off everything

Jerry : You don't even know what a write off is .

Kramer : Do you ?

Jerry : No . I don't .

Kramer : But they do and they are the ones writing it off .

Yes, you can.

Inflation + a growing economy [papers it over / makes it more affordable], and [makes the eventual crash bigger / allows long-term growth]

Your pick.

DamnYankees: PowerSlacker: China looks more and more like Japan of 20 years ago.

Ni hao mao?

Did you just say "hello cat"?

so wait? I thought they're our lenders and we're the loaners... so if our lender is in financial problems what does that say about the guy who borrows from him?

reminds of of the phrase from Obi Wan - Who's more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?

Their debt is absolutely minuscule compared to the US.

Does China have a central bank like other countries to funnel money to the top or how does that work for them?

See, the US and China should do the same thing. Find out who they owe all that money to, then set up an elaborate scheme to like save them from being killed. Maybe lure the person they owe all that money to into a dark alley, then have somebody jump them and threaten to kill them. Then the US can run in and fend off the attack and save the day, and the person we owe all that money to will be all like "oh, you saved my life, don't worry about that money you owe me, life is too short to worry about money between friends". And if that person the US owes money to is a hot chick I bet the US could at least get a handy out of the deal, too. So no more debt and a handy, go USA!

/Patent pending

Arkanaut: DamnYankees: PowerSlacker: China looks more and more like Japan of 20 years ago.

Ni hao mao?

Did you just say "hello cat"?

Rintoo?

Greece: We will not rollover!

CygnusDarius: dittybopper: Not in the long run, yuo can't.

Why not? They still are, in essence, a totalitarian regime; and in the end, if they feel like it, they can suddenly arrest and kill the CEOs to cancel whatever debts they can. That should scare the banks away.

/Or force other countries in the bank's payroll to make sanctions on China

It would also scare away foreign investment, which is what 99.9999% of China's growth is built upon.

StopLurkListen: Yes, you can.

Inflation + a growing economy [papers it over / makes it more affordable], and [makes the eventual crash bigger / allows long-term growth]

Your pick.

Maybe the Chinese can do it, but we sure can't. You have to grow your economy faster than you grow your debt. Here's ours over the last 30 years.

This is how China built all the cities in the middle of nowhere.

They borrowed and built vast communities far away from population centers to keep the economy growing, but these cities in the middle of nowhere are now completed, but stand empty and produce no income. Barring a massive government sponsored relocation and jobs program, they will simply rot away.

Now, the US, on the other hand, could -- and should -- spend a bunch of money on USEFUL infrastructure projects as investments. Roads, bridges, electrical, water, Internet, etc. Things like that produce income over the long term and provide employment in the short and medium term.

dittybopper: CygnusDarius: dittybopper: Not in the long run, yuo can't.

Why not? They still are, in essence, a totalitarian regime; and in the end, if they feel like it, they can suddenly arrest and kill the CEOs to cancel whatever debts they can. That should scare the banks away.

/Or force other countries in the bank's payroll to make sanctions on China

It would also scare away foreign investment, which is what 99.9999% of China's growth is built upon.

I'm not entirely sure it would anymore. They don't have the will to resist a market that large: to a deodorant company, China is the land of 2 billion armpits.

They should just hire this guy:



He's good with calculation.

DamnYankees: Yes of course. Every country that has its own currency has a central bank, as far as I know.

Not necessarily a private commercial bank like most countries though, that's what I was asking. I imagine China has an actual government run bank.

You pray nice, Amelica, or re cut off WarMalt! Then what you buy?

Millennium: They don't have the will to resist a market that large: to a deodorant company, China is the land of 2 billion armpits.

jasimo: This is how China built all the cities in the middle of nowhere.

They borrowed and built vast communities far away from population centers to keep the economy growing, but these cities in the middle of nowhere are now completed, but stand empty and produce no income. Barring a massive government sponsored relocation and jobs program, they will simply rot away.

Now, the US, on the other hand, could -- and should -- spend a bunch of money on USEFUL infrastructure projects as investments. Roads, bridges, electrical, water, Internet, etc. Things like that produce income over the long term and provide employment in the short and medium term.

The problem is there are alot fewer USEFUL infrastructure investments available than you might think. Building another tunnel into Manhattan from New Jersey might alleviate traffic some, but it isn't going to improve commerce enough pay for its cost. Likewise with roads.

I'll not argue that there are likely some infrastructure projects that would payback, but its overly simplistic to say the US has significant infrastructure investment opportunities while saying China (which is still a developing nation, unlike us) doesn't.

roncofooddehydrator: StopLurkListen: Yes, you can.

Inflation + a growing economy [papers it over / makes it more affordable], and [makes the eventual crash bigger / allows long-term growth]

Your pick.

Maybe the Chinese can do it, but we sure can't. You have to grow your economy faster than you grow your debt. Here's ours over the last 30 years.

[www.market-ticker.org image 640x353]

No argument there, though that chart doesn't include inflation. But then, that leads us into the often pointless craziness of economics, the dismal non-science where PhD's flame each other using complicated formulas which can be abbreviated as a five year old saying "you stinkyhead" ...

DamnYankees: vodka: DamnYankees: Yes of course. Every country that has its own currency has a central bank, as far as I know.

Not necessarily a private commercial bank like most countries though, that's what I was asking. I imagine China has an actual government run bank.

Oh. Ya, China's central bank is a government entity. But that's not unusual; the UK's central bank is a government branch, for example.

Our central bank, known as The Federal Reserve, is also a government entity.

China's leaders have a problem. They realize that having a hundred million angry, unemployed workers is a recipe for revolution so they're doing everything they can to give those people something to do. So they forced local governments to take out hundreds of billions of dollars in loans to fund unnecessary construction projects. Now they're finding that those municipalities can't repay the loans. Imagine that.

I'd be curious to know the occupancy rates for all the new office and apartment buildings that China has erected in the last 5 years...

jasimo: This is how China built all the cities in the middle of nowhere.

They borrowed and built vast communities far away from population centers to keep the economy growing, but these cities in the middle of nowhere are now completed, but stand empty and produce no income. Barring a massive government sponsored relocation and jobs program, they will simply rot away.

Now, the US, on the other hand, could -- and should -- spend a bunch of money on USEFUL infrastructure projects as investments. Roads, bridges, electrical, water, Internet, etc. Things like that produce income over the long term and provide employment in the short and medium term.

You mean like that approx $800 billion we spent on things like "shovel ready jobs" and socially aware puppet shows, Solyndra and Fisker ?

Debeo Summa Credo: jasimo: This is how China built all the cities in the middle of nowhere.

They borrowed and built vast communities far away from population centers to keep the economy growing, but these cities in the middle of nowhere are now completed, but stand empty and produce no income. Barring a massive government sponsored relocation and jobs program, they will simply rot away.

Now, the US, on the other hand, could -- and should -- spend a bunch of money on USEFUL infrastructure projects as investments. Roads, bridges, electrical, water, Internet, etc. Things like that produce income over the long term and provide employment in the short and medium term.

The problem is there are alot fewer USEFUL infrastructure investments available than you might think. Building another tunnel into Manhattan from New Jersey might alleviate traffic some, but it isn't going to improve commerce enough pay for its cost. Likewise with roads.

I'll not argue that there are likely some infrastructure projects that would payback, but its overly simplistic to say the US has significant infrastructure investment opportunities while saying China (which is still a developing nation, unlike us) doesn't.

Yeah, a couple of short paragraphs on Fark will necessarily be oversimplistic. I would argue though, that China's willy-nilly building of cities in the middle of nowhere was idiotic. As you point out, they are a developing country and could have done great things with that money. Instead of a grand scheme of infrastructure, education, industrialization, however, a ton of money was spent on these ridiculous ghost cities.
I also think that the US would have no trouble finding $1 trillion in infrasture and other long-term investments that would pay off over time. Internet, education, job training, alternative energy, roads, trains, bridges, water, electricity, etc., etc.

ObeliskToucher: dittybopper: Not in the long run, yuo can't.

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I was waiting to see how long it would take. It was an honest typo that I caught, saw how it fit, and left in.