FARK.com: (6937588) On the bright side, there's lots of new ruins to visit in Greece

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		On the bright side, there's lots of new ruins to visit in Greece (news.com.au)		95
		More: News, Greece, mass protests, Whitney Houston, riots

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24924 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Feb 2012 at 5:02 PM | Favorite | share:

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ACallForPeace		2012-02-12 05:08:46 PM

13 votes:

This is what happens when you try squeezing blood out of a turnip.
If you try to punish the lower and working class as a whole and wholesale theft/sellout of their livelihoods and their democracy, to pay off the debts the upper class has accrued expect resistance like this. All this done for foreign creditors. Bankers and corporations getting off free as hell, the government being replaced and practically handpicked by an outside private institution (in Italy as well, goodbye democracy) of "neutral technocrat" free market ideologues imposing the theft of austerity. And the rest of society pays for the failures of the market and the state.
And if you're one of those police trying to enforce the theft from the people, or one of the bankers initiating it, then you should expect that molotov as much as any normal thief would expect the police to come for a visit and toss them in jail.

beta_plus		2012-02-12 05:11:39 PM

6 votes:

A democracy is always temporary in nature;
it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.
A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover
that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.
From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates
who promise the most benefits from the public treasury,
with the result that every democracy will finally collapse
due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.

So Democracy is ending in its Birthplace. Thanks Socialism!

/B-B-B-But Austerity!
//You mean the austerity that wouldn't be necessary if Greece had lived within its means in the first place. Yeah, about that ...
///wait until this happens in democracy of 300 million people with 5000 nuclear weapons

Styro Foam		2012-02-12 06:05:32 PM

5 votes:

When the fark did the human spirit become "Yeah, shiat sucks, just suck it up and take your economic licking?

That's all I farking see in this thread. It's all "Those stupid Greeks shouldn't have tried to have a good life! Don't they know you have to have 10% unemployment in a real economy? Don't they know you have to work longer hours for less pay while the government cuts the few institutions that used to help people along to shreds? Don't they know that being poor is a moral failing?"

When did we stop believing we can actually do good things for ourselves? When did we stop believing we have the power to make our own lives just a little bit better than farking shiatty? When did the Party take over? When did Big Brother start loving us? I farking missed it, and all I want to do in this life is make people realize that there is no Big Brother. He's in your mind, making you believe that things have to be this shiatty way. If we would stand up for our own farking lives instead of the Holy Economy and the Holy Job Creators maybe we could have some farking economic security for ourselves instead of the farking bankers.

fark you all, you deserve what you get. I can't wait till the system falls down completely, The amazing rise in work productivity in the last century means there isn't enough work to go around any more. But instead of enjoying that and living the good lives we could all have we've shackled ourselves to an economic system that requires ever more growth. We're strangling ourselves and I will cry when it all falls down and no one sees why.

lazyguineapig33		2012-02-12 05:23:18 PM

5 votes:

what the fark is wrong with mediterranean people? can they honest to god not see that a 50 year old retirement age is not possible? the germans went from 65 to 67 with very little complaint. they saw a problem, and squared their shoulders to the task. the greeks/italians/french/spanish by comparison look like menstruating pussies.

ACallForPeace		2012-02-12 05:51:23 PM

4 votes:

leevis: The debts of the upper class? From everything I've read most of Greece's debts stem from entitlements for the poor and middle class and pensions for government employees.

This is about repaying foreign bankers/investors. Debt is the new false obligation since loyalty to god/the king is out. It presumes to be a contract made by equals but it's just the perversion of a promise with mathematics and violence.
Only through some high-in-the-sky moral principle like debt could you justify taking the livelihoods such as food, housing, and basic support and democracy away from an entire people to change the balance sheet in favor of a few banks so they don't lose as much.
The IMF/global economic mafia is pretty much using the Greek government as their enforcer on the people, and the people have had enough.

alltandubh		2012-02-12 05:20:12 PM

4 votes:

The Irresponsible Captain: People with no money and no jobs getting upset when everything is taken away, when their leaders don't listen to them, and instead put the people that caused the problems (the bankers) in charge?

The bankers never forced the Greek government to borrow billions of euros and go on a wild spending spree. But nowadays it seems that bankers can be blamed for just about anything (not that they`re holy innocents, but it`s a hell of a long way from recognizing that some bankers are irresponsible to claiming that they are at the root of all the world`s problems). Supporters of big government are naturally the ones most frantic to deflect attention away from the failure of their ideology by scapegoating financiers. It`s pathetic.

ACallForPeace		2012-02-12 06:16:00 PM

3 votes:

Styro Foam: When the fark did the human spirit become "Yeah, shiat sucks, just suck it up and take your economic licking?

That's all I farking see in this thread. It's all "Those stupid Greeks shouldn't have tried to have a good life! Don't they know you have to have 10% unemployment in a real economy? Don't they know you have to work longer hours for less pay while the government cuts the few institutions that used to help people along to shreds? Don't they know that being poor is a moral failing?"

When did we stop believing we can actually do good things for ourselves? When did we stop believing we have the power to make our own lives just a little bit better than farking shiatty? When did the Party take over? When did Big Brother start loving us? I farking missed it, and all I want to do in this life is make people realize that there is no Big Brother. He's in your mind, making you believe that things have to be this shiatty way. If we would stand up for our own farking lives instead of the Holy Economy and the Holy Job Creators maybe we could have some farking economic security for ourselves instead of the farking bankers.

fark you all, you deserve what you get. I can't wait till the system falls down completely, The amazing rise in work productivity in the last century means there isn't enough work to go around any more. But instead of enjoying that and living the good lives we could all have we've shackled ourselves to an economic system that requires ever more growth. We're strangling ourselves and I will cry when it all falls down and no one sees why.

This.
Hell, before there was less than enough work to go around, people were still living freely and there were still enough resources.
The problem isn't one of resources or work or productivity. It's the concept of work itself and the modern system of hierarchies. That one should turn a profit for others or work for anything other than their own livelihoods or needs.
It's not even like we hit a turning point and now we can abandon where we are. We could have been using a different way of life all along.

ronaprhys: You didn't address the point about tax dodging and living on the dole. Nor do you provide any good reason that the banks shouldn't ask for the money back or have a say in the process of getting their money back.

Even according to standard economic theory, you're supposed to take losses and won't always get debt repaid. As it is now, "repayment" is pretty much extortion. Why should the banks be given automatic control of someone else's government or be able to seize what they need to live in order to make themselves a little richer or change a few numbers on a balance sheet?
In a sensible situation, the two parties could resolve things as equals and each would have a say in what they owe. As it works now, the creditor all of a sudden gets all the power in a situation that was supposedly equal. And all the violence and bullshiat he can use to get his money back is justified in people's minds only because the money can be quantified in an exact symbol. So you're saying it's okay to put a mathematical price on someone's life or freedom. Not too far off from the current state of things, given capitalism and the state have never been primarily organized around free labor, even today with wage slavery people's lives are still just distilled into number worth.

ACallForPeace		2012-02-12 05:44:22 PM

3 votes:

Relatively Obscure: What would you prefer to democracy?

Democracy like capitalism is a form of hierarchy that maximizes mobility within the hierarchy. A world without the market or the state, where direct democracy or some other system than representative could be used would be ideal. They give you the freedom of choosing who holds your chains, but they don't take away the chains.
The people of a country are free until the elections are over. The worker is free until they have a new boss.
We should seek a world without cops, politicians or bosses. Until then you're having people argue that a prison isn't a prison because one day a common prisoner can be the warden.
I Said: As I said in the redlit thread:

The big thing I keep seeing is that these measures need to be taken to prevent a Greek default which could damage global markets"

If I'm a Greek citizen, I'm not giving two sh*ts about global markets and want Greece to serve me at the expense of those markets.

Clearly a default is bad for the citizens too, but taking from the already-suffering has consequences, especially if this is presented as "take from them because international financial institutions would suffer greatly if we don't."
That and the way market and state distribute things are irrational anyway. These economic recessions and shiat are entirely artificial. We still have houses and food and shiat to go around. It didn't all just disappear. It's just one big farked up game of meaningless numbers and algorithms. And unless you're somebody's wage slave, boss or found some other way to give in a piece of symbolic paper, you're locked out of resources you need to survive. And people think other people will just take that lying down?
Any place where you have homeless and foreclosures or supermarkets full of food but people starving, you should expect resistance by the mere observation that people are farking human and need to live.

mark12A		2012-02-12 05:22:13 PM

3 votes:

I'm feeling all Archduke Ferdinandy right now...

Weaver95		2012-02-12 05:17:20 PM

3 votes:

so here's one scenario - Greece implodes into civil war. Turkey decides that this is a great time to shift the borders a bit, and gets into a tiff with remaining loyalist elements within Greece. NATO (and the UN) try to play peacemaker while the guys in suits divide up whatever's left of the country's infrastucture.

meanwhile, Iran completes its nuclear weapons program, prompting Israel to launch a coordinated attack on Iran. iran strikes back, forging a hasty alliance with Jordan, Egypt, and quiet backing from saudi arabia and Iraq.

Here in the US, members of congress (deeply indebted to both banking interests AND Israel lobbyists) push to get the United States to put troops into the Israeli warzone to help the jews fight their war....but they're hampered by the accelerating collapse of the eurozone economy, which is spiking unemployment here in the states. Homeland security and domestic police forces begin an unprecedented crackdown on political dissidents.

China....well, we can cover that later, if there's any interest.

AntiNorm		2012-02-12 05:11:06 PM

3 votes:

The Greek people need yet another bailout, and they're pissed that they're going to have to cut back? What, did they go to the Barack Obama school of economics?

That, or they're just like the Occupy idiots -- they want sh*t for free.

Pontious Pilates		2012-02-12 05:10:29 PM

3 votes:

How do you put out a greece fire?

m2313		2012-02-12 11:23:18 PM

2 votes:

Austerity measures are a classic tactic used by the west, usually through the IMF or WB, to keep third world countries in a perpetual state of debt. To redirect all their government taxes into our own coffers. This has been done time and again, in the name of modernization or "helping". It has the same result every time. Perpetual debt, and foreign control over all the nations resources. No one with any training in economics is fooled by that, and usually, the only thing that maintains it is a corrupted government that's in on the scheme.

This is the first time we've done it to what would traditionally be considered a western power, however. And that sets a precedent that's truly frightening. I suspect what we're seeing is the beginning of a cannibalizing frenzy of western economic powers.

ACallForPeace		2012-02-12 09:01:42 PM

2 votes:

Heron: We want to make this about morality, fine; but let's not be hypocrites about it.

There's this.
Debt is actually a moral statement, not an economic one. It's moral character in simple mathematics allows people to justify unlimited amounts of bullshiat to get back a mathematical quantity.
In positions of debt we're told we're equal parties in a contract and that everyone must pay their debts. Well both of those have been shown to be lies, especially "everyone must pay" since the bankers and politicians have gotten away with untold bullshiat while not paying in (look at the bank bailouts or the Greek crisis). From then on, who decides who really owes whom is just a matter of who has more force. When you have violence on your side, you don't really need to communicate or work things out with the other as though they are a human being or equal.
We should be moving away from living our lives by moral conceptions and towards practical/ethical ones. Get a system that's based on need and contribution. Not rewarding the wealthy for being wealthy and having force on their side. We're not down with theocracy or the king or "God" telling us what to do, not most of us anyway. We shouldn't be down with this band of moral hucksters insisting that we owe them anything either. A free person chooses how to pay their debts or make their promises.

WhyteRaven74		2012-02-12 07:35:30 PM

2 votes:

Nemo's Brother: This is what happens when you treat thieves like adults.

In Greece, good luck finding someone who isn't a thief to some point.

Guntram Shatterhand		2012-02-12 06:25:24 PM

2 votes:

MrEricSir: At this point it's pretty hopeless in Greece. People go to work and don't get paid.

Really the only thing they can do is declare bankruptcy and start over. If the EU says no to that plan, Greece can give them the finger and do it anyway. They'll have to go back to their own currency, but so what?

Because then the rich won't get their money, and Greece will show how easy it is to simply say 'you shouldn't have lent your money, now you get nothing.' That is the other side of the capitalism coin, really: once you owe so much there's no real way of getting out from under it, you just give up and undermine the process. And that's what these lenders really fear: the idea that the system can be set up so the risk doesn't have to be on the lendee.

cameroncrazy1984		2012-02-12 06:06:40 PM

2 votes:

UCFRoadWarrior: Lots of ignorance concerning Greece:

Their "being farked" is not really of their own doing. When they joined the EU, the EU required any member, new or current, to bring up their standard of living to Western European levels. Pretty much the Greeks were forced to to start huge spending programs to bring up wages, retirement, and repaying the bankers who loaned them the money. After nearly 40 yrs of EU forced economics....the shiat has hit the Acropolis

The Greeks are borrowing about $170 billion. Their GNP is about $320 billion. There is no way they can pay off this loan, or any of the previous loans

Of course, the nattering GOP-voting Business Socialist Free Trade Communist-Globalist is going to blame everything on Greek Socialism....but this is what the EU forced on everyone. And, Greece is not the biggest problem....Spain is about ready to explode....and there is not enough money to bail them out

Once again you display a stunning lack of comprehension of the issue of the day. Who forced Greece to join the EU? Who forced Greece to hire an American company to cook their books to fool the EU? No one but Greece did this.

svenge		2012-02-12 05:58:05 PM

2 votes:

ronaprhys		2012-02-12 05:53:52 PM

2 votes:

ACallForPeace: This is what happens when you try squeezing blood out of a turnip.
If you try to punish the lower and working class as a whole and wholesale theft/sellout of their livelihoods and their democracy, to pay off the debts the upper class has accrued expect resistance like this. All this done for foreign creditors. Bankers and corporations getting off free as hell, the government being replaced and practically handpicked by an outside private institution (in Italy as well, goodbye democracy) of "neutral technocrat" free market ideologues imposing the theft of austerity. And the rest of society pays for the failures of the market and the state.
And if you're one of those police trying to enforce the theft from the people, or one of the bankers initiating it, then you should expect that molotov as much as any normal thief would expect the police to come for a visit and toss them in jail.

So you're saying that the government continuing to borrow money to keep the public on the dole, the public not paying taxes, and continued elections of governments that perpetuated this had nothing to do with it. That it's all the fault of the bankers for actually not giving* them any more money until they show they have some plan to actually become a useful country again?

*At this point, it's probably giving. The chances of actually getting any of the money back are slim to none.

that bosnian sniper		2012-02-12 05:52:23 PM

2 votes:

You know, is it just me or can you pretty much predict how fark-awful a given situation looks on conservatism in general by how fervently the Fark Independent brigade carpet threadshiats a given article?

Here's an idea. Why not actually force corporations and the rich to pay their damn taxes, so you don't run so deep in the red you kick off a debt crisis which finance and lending institutions capitalize upon to buy up and shortsell mass amounts of debt to cash in on your country's economic collapse, knowing they'll get bailed out thanks to the convenient marriage between financial and political interests?

I_C_Weener		2012-02-12 05:39:20 PM

2 votes:

whither_apophis: The Greeks are revolting!

Not to mention rioting.

optional		2012-02-12 05:35:38 PM

2 votes:

Weaver95: iran strikes back, forging a hasty alliance with Jordan, Egypt, and quiet backing from saudi arabia and Iraq.

Unlikely. The Arab states fear Iran more than they hate Israel.

ACallForPeace		2012-02-12 05:34:52 PM

2 votes:

alltandubh: Supporters of big government are naturally the ones most frantic to deflect attention away from the failure of their ideology by scapegoating financiers. It`s pathetic.

Relatively Obscure: So, you just quote-argued that democracy can never "succeed." Fine. What's your alternative?

The market and state are symbiotic. The way they developed historically as well as how they function today.
Arguing between "big government" and "financiers" or market/state left/right is arguing over two different hinds of the same animal, they work for each other unless the bureaucrat and merchant are fighting over turf.
There are many alternatives given by anarchist/autonomous movements.
Debt: The First 5000 Years and almost anything by David Graeber is a good insight to this. PDF of Debt. (new window)
Alternatively, Negri's autonomous writings through "Empire" and its continuations are more insight.
Exarchia in Greece is more or less an autonomous zone, the Zapatistas in Mexico, the reoccupation of factories in Argentina.
Of course, it doesn't even need to go that far. The alter-globalization movement convinced many countries to kick the IMF out, and Iceland and Argentina have told these economic mafia arm-breakers to fark right off before.

mark12A		2012-02-12 05:31:34 PM

2 votes:

meanwhile, Iran completes its nuclear weapons program, prompting Israel to launch a coordinated attack on Iran. iran strikes back, forging a hasty alliance with Jordan, Egypt, and quiet backing from saudi arabia and Iraq.

Duh. The Saudi fear Iran, so they will cheer on any Israeli attack on Iran. They've already made it known thru back channels that they won't stop Israeli warplanes cutting thru their airspace on their way to Iran.

Do try to keep up..

blindpreacher		2012-02-12 05:29:33 PM

2 votes:

lazyguineapig33: what the fark is wrong with mediterranean people? can they honest to god not see that a 50 year old retirement age is not possible? the germans went from 65 to 67 with very little complaint. they saw a problem, and squared their shoulders to the task. the greeks/italians/french/spanish by comparison look like menstruating pussies.

Not to mention outside of a few agricultural products the Greeks don't make anything anybody else wants. If an export power house like Germany needs to tweak their retirement system how the hell can the Greeks think they can get away without changing it?

WhyteRaven74		2012-02-12 05:26:01 PM

2 votes:

alltandubh: The bankers never forced the Greek government to borrow billions of euros and go on a wild spending spree.

Which isn't actually the problem in Greece. If dodging taxes wasn't the national sport, they'd be doing alright. As it is, it is, and they cooked the books and some other fun stuff.

hackhix		2012-02-12 05:22:40 PM

2 votes:

LeafyGreens: I'm not sure how to feel about this without more Fark.com opinions

Let me help you out

Congratulations! You've gifted one free month of TotalFark to LeafyGreens.

The Irresponsible Captain		2012-02-12 05:11:39 PM

2 votes:

People with no money and no jobs getting upset when everything is taken away, when their leaders don't listen to them, and instead put the people that caused the problems (the bankers) in charge?

That's unpossible.

Thunderpipes		2012-02-13 12:11:40 AM

1 votes:

We are Greece in 10 years on Obama's path. That is not biatching, but honest truth when you run the numbers.

Oh, he is bragging about saving 2 trillion over 10 years? Okay, when you will run up 15 trillion more in debt, how is that saving?

"Oh Honey, I only spent $80,000 on the credit card this year instead of $100,000, so I SAVED you money!"

Dumbass libs,

m2313		2012-02-13 12:08:46 AM

1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: Hmmm, I'm really curious about all this any good links/ citations? No snark just curious.

Quickie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Fzm1hEiDQ

The Economic Hitman sums it up well from a individual point of view:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTbdnNgqfs8

The Debt of the Dictators maybe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSAkoUAFvrE

It's how the world works though. Not much you can do about it, so far as I can tell. Most of us here live in first world countries, and have to accept that the luxury we're accustom to comes at a price to others. We can't all be economic vampires, however, as some of the leftist would dream - there must be cattle. The fact that Greece has been slotted under cattle, suggests we're really running low on sources of blood.

The 3.7 quadrillion dollar derivatives market might be another good indicator though.

Ya know... This is essentially why world war 2 started - Europe doing, essentially, the same thing to conquered Germany (yes, using bankers who just happened to be Jewish)... I wonder if some Hitler-like figure will rise up in Greece, and blame the Jews, or what not, and turn Greece into a flash-in-the-bucket world war machine.

BigNumber12		2012-02-12 10:41:24 PM

1 votes:

Oh look, another thread full of people with childlike, Santa Claus-esque views on society. *Society* owes me an arbitrary standard living, and I shouldn't be at all tied to the costs that my lifestyle generates because FARK THE 1%, THAT'S WHY. The evil banks that I want to abolish should be forced to grant me loan after loan, even though I don't believe in paying loans back; banks should just accept that they're supposed to take losses and not worry about anyone ever repaying. If we were just to eliminate cops, politicians, and bosses, all of the unicorns would come out of hiding and resume shiatting gold bricks into everyone's mailboxes while we watch American Idol and smoke weed all day. Because, God knows, we're owed the 'good life.'

grotto_man		2012-02-12 10:16:55 PM

1 votes:

Weaver95

so here's one scenario - Greece implodes into civil war. Turkey decides that this is a great time to shift the borders a bit, and gets into a tiff with remaining loyalist elements within Greece. NATO (and the UN) try to play peacemaker while the guys in suits divide up whatever's left of the country's infrastucture.

No one thinks a Greece/Turkey war is likely at this point.

meanwhile, Iran completes its nuclear weapons program, prompting Israel to launch a coordinated attack on Iran. iran strikes back, forging a hasty alliance with Jordan, Egypt, and quiet backing from saudi arabia and Iraq.

Saudi Arabia is more likely to join in an attack on Iran - this, this. There's also zero chance Jordan would join - they're a US allied Sunni non-theocratic monarchy. If Iraq tried to join such a war, which is kind of unlikely given their divisions and relative lack of ability to project force beyond its borders (and even within), it's more likely it would break apart with the Sunni middle allied with SA against the shiate south.

Here in the US, members of congress (deeply indebted to both banking interests AND Israel lobbyists) push to get the United States to put troops into the Israeli warzone to help the jews fight their war

More baseless conspiracy crap I see. So much for the self proclaimed rationalist. Nevermind there's a very large and powerful Arab lobby. They'd be perfectly happy to range against Israel for an Arab attacker, though they probably wouldn't for Iran given SA opposition to Iran.

....but they're hampered by the accelerating collapse of the eurozone economy, which is spiking unemployment here in the states. Homeland security and domestic police forces begin an unprecedented crackdown on political dissidents.

Warmed over "V for Vendetta" garbage.

China....well, we can cover that later, if there's any interest.

From a clinical perspective, I can see the interest.

Sliding Carp		2012-02-12 10:15:26 PM

1 votes:

evoke: Austerity measures? Why? All you have to do is spend more of the governments money and everything will sort itself out. At least that's what the libs tell me...

Have they tried just cutting taxes some more?

trotsky		2012-02-12 10:14:47 PM

1 votes:

AntiNorm: The Greek people need yet another bailout, and they're pissed that they're going to have to cut back? What, did they go to the Barack Obama school of economics?

That, or they're just like the Occupy idiots -- they want sh*t for free.

Jesus, where did you come from to stink up the politics tab? Welcome to my ignore list, you ignorant moron.

Man On Pink Corner		2012-02-12 10:10:59 PM

1 votes:

MBA Whore: Default is better than enslavement. This is a power grab by Europe's elite. fark them.

Well, no, the "power grab" was when they asked for loans they couldn't pay back.

Live within your means, and this stuff doesn't tend to be a problem.

muck4doo		2012-02-12 10:04:00 PM

1 votes:

Frank N Stein: Weaver95: so here's one scenario - Greece implodes into civil war. Turkey decides that this is a great time to shift the borders a bit, and gets into a tiff with remaining loyalist elements within Greece. NATO (and the UN) try to play peacemaker while the guys in suits divide up whatever's left of the country's infrastucture.

meanwhile, Iran completes its nuclear weapons program, prompting Israel to launch a coordinated attack on Iran. iran strikes back, forging a hasty alliance with Jordan, Egypt, and quiet backing from saudi arabia and Iraq.

Here in the US, members of congress (deeply indebted to both banking interests AND Israel lobbyists) push to get the United States to put troops into the Israeli warzone to help the jews fight their war....but they're hampered by the accelerating collapse of the eurozone economy, which is spiking unemployment here in the states. Homeland security and domestic police forces begin an unprecedented crackdown on political dissidents.

China....well, we can cover that later, if there's any interest.

It's funny how your stupid crackpot scenarios never come to fruition

Let him live his fantasy in a bunker. It's as funny as Czarangelus thinking he's going to be killing cops from storm drains.

Little.Alex		2012-02-12 08:55:59 PM

1 votes:

The Irresponsible Captain: People with no money and no jobs getting upset when everything is taken away, when their leaders don't listen to them, and instead put the people that caused the problems (the bankers) in charge?

That's unpossible.

Actually; the problem is that their leaders DID listen to them. The public demanded lavish social spending and generous pensions, and they elected politicians who made that happen. The fact that Greece is not a prosperous enough country to afford such extravagance didn't enter into their calculations for a minute. Populism run amok.

The were served exactly what they ordered. Then the waiter brought the check, and things turned ugly. Now they want to dine and dash on the people who, in good faith, lent them money.

Beware of Greeks wanting Gifts.

cameroncrazy1984		2012-02-12 08:39:35 PM

1 votes:

prjindigo: I hope that the next time a whole mess of youths go out as "protestors" then smash, pillage and burn that the local police load FMJ and gun them down in the street.

This is absolute bullshiat.

You try this crap in MY country and *I* will load FMJ and apply Federal Law on your ass.

And...then you'll be arrested.

Pockafrusta		2012-02-12 08:39:30 PM

1 votes:

Gus Portokalos: Give me a word, any word, and I show you that the root of that word is Greek.

cameroncrazy1984		2012-02-12 08:37:25 PM

1 votes:

olddinosaur: am already told there will be violent protests this summer---George Soros said so on TV live---and I believe him.

Lulz

jpo2269		2012-02-12 08:17:18 PM

1 votes:

Does anyone have a educated guess as to what this will do to Gyro futures? Should I stock up, or let the market sort things out???

Heron		2012-02-12 07:45:24 PM

1 votes:

Weaver95: so here's one scenario - Greece implodes into civil war. Turkey decides that this is a great time to shift the borders a bit, and gets into a tiff with remaining loyalist elements within Greece. NATO (and the UN) try to play peacemaker while the guys in suits divide up whatever's left of the country's infrastucture.

meanwhile, Iran completes its nuclear weapons program, prompting Israel to launch a coordinated attack on Iran. iran strikes back, forging a hasty alliance with Jordan, Egypt, and quiet backing from saudi arabia and Iraq.

Here in the US, members of congress (deeply indebted to both banking interests AND Israel lobbyists) push to get the United States to put troops into the Israeli warzone to help the jews fight their war....but they're hampered by the accelerating collapse of the eurozone economy, which is spiking unemployment here in the states. Homeland security and domestic police forces begin an unprecedented crackdown on political dissidents.

China....well, we can cover that later, if there's any interest.

Nope. Turkey might use this opportunity to boost their Cypriot client's, though. It's difficult to say if they will however; putting aside all the other stuff going on in the region they're worried about tight now, the people who really run the EU -France and Germany- wouldn't like it, hurting Turkey's bid for EU membership. On the other, both France and Germany have been doing every desperate thing they can think of to stall Turkish accession for a decade now (Turks aren't "real" Euros, apparently, unlike Serbians), and a growing number of Turks don't really see the benefit to joining any longer. I doubt the "solution" on display in Greece and Italy will improve their opinion any.

Heron		2012-02-12 07:38:53 PM

1 votes:

ACallForPeace: This is what happens when you try squeezing blood out of a turnip.
If you try to punish the lower and working class as a whole and wholesale theft/sellout of their livelihoods and their democracy, to pay off the debts the upper class has accrued expect resistance like this. All this done for foreign creditors. Bankers and corporations getting off free as hell, the government being replaced and practically handpicked by an outside private institution (in Italy as well, goodbye democracy) of "neutral technocrat" free market ideologues imposing the theft of austerity. And the rest of society pays for the failures of the market and the state.
And if you're one of those police trying to enforce the theft from the people, or one of the bankers initiating it, then you should expect that molotov as much as any normal thief would expect the police to come for a visit and toss them in jail.

And who do the EU technocrats put in charge? Actual Fascists (new window).

/not a Godwin; I'm not bringing up Hitler
//And, as the link shows, it isn't hyperbole

Heron		2012-02-12 07:35:22 PM

1 votes:

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Wow they have it backwards. You're supposed to pillage before you burn.

The Germans beat them to the pillaging, so burning's all they've got left to express their rage with.

I wonder how the EU will react when firing the few people who still have jobs left in Greece mysteriously doesn't improve their economy.

LemSkroob		2012-02-12 07:30:32 PM

1 votes:

AntiNorm: The Greek people need yet another bailout, and they're pissed that they're going to have to cut back? What, did they go to the Barack Obama school of economics?

That, or they're just like the Occupy idiots -- they want sh*t for free.

Its Greece. They want to sit in their coffee lounges for 8 hours a day and get paid for it. They haven't had a productive citizen since Aristotle

raerae1980		2012-02-12 07:08:59 PM

1 votes:

Well...at least the Elgin Marbles are safe.

Actually, I really can't be snarky about this.

/archaeologist :(

that bosnian sniper		2012-02-12 07:03:45 PM

1 votes:

Bob16: The real buttfarking came from US intel orgs.

Latin America just kind of got passed between the two. Any of the countries got pissed or tried to buck the system, the CIA swooped in to shore things up by any means necessary. World Bank/IMF was the carrot, and the US intelligence community was the stick.

Big Man On Campus		2012-02-12 06:58:52 PM

1 votes:

It's somewhat scarier in California, where working for various government agencies can have you retiring at 40.

sophus_tree		2012-02-12 06:53:40 PM

1 votes:

Austerity Plan for Greece Wins Passage in Parliament

Link (new window)

that bosnian sniper		2012-02-12 06:48:53 PM

1 votes:

ACallForPeace: Every mafia head ever is probably going "Damn, the IMF knows how to play it good".

Hell, this whole Greek situation's a slap-and-tickle job compared to the decades-long buttfarking Latin America's gotten care of the IMF and World Bank.

Nemo's Brother		2012-02-12 06:43:01 PM

1 votes:

Mrtraveler01		2012-02-12 06:37:59 PM

1 votes:

that bosnian sniper: More like private moneyed interests buy up legislators and/to cook the hell out of the books and stack the legal scales in their own favor, which propels entire countries into revenue crises, which are seized upon by -- you guessed it! -- the same private moneyed interests who buy up and shortsell debt for short-term profit. That, in turn, turns into a debt crisis, which -- you guessed it! -- the same private moneyed interests get bailouts on the back of severe austerity, socializing the costs while privatizing the payout.

This sounds familiar...

that bosnian sniper		2012-02-12 06:36:35 PM

1 votes:

Dinjiin: Herrr--PLOP

Other than the fact that isn't and hasn't been the case.

More like private moneyed interests buy up legislators and/to cook the hell out of the books and stack the legal scales in their own favor, which propels entire countries into revenue crises, which are seized upon by -- you guessed it! -- the same private moneyed interests who buy up and shortsell debt for short-term profit. That, in turn, turns into a debt crisis, which -- you guessed it! -- the same private moneyed interests get bailouts on the back of severe austerity, socializing the costs while privatizing the payout.

I mean, which financial institution was it the Greeks paid to cook the shiat out of the books and continue selling debt, then turned around and securitized and resold that debt on the open market? It certainly wasn't any financial institution who played a key role in the 2008 economic crisis...

Bob16		2012-02-12 06:30:01 PM

1 votes:

Troy McClure: Bob16: Troy McClure: Okay, but what is the alternative?

Gee thats a hard one. How about making everyone sacrifice instead of protecting the 1 percenters at the cost of the 99%.

Is it really possible for Greece to suddenly start collecting taxes quickly enough to avoid a default?

Probably not but i wasn't thinking of a quick fix.

My point is the 1 % are really deluded if they say "fark you you are not getting anything now go shut up while i finish my prime rib dinner". Yes a certain amount of people are going to shut up but a certain amount are not gonna listen to that and one of the characteristics of this universe we live in is that disintegration is much easier to do than integration.

They can really cause some trouble.

ACallForPeace		2012-02-12 06:23:04 PM

1 votes:

ronaprhys: No. What he's describing is a bunch of idiots deciding to go into a contractual relationship without a solid plan to make good on their portion. Then they continue to borrow money, making the situation worse. Then, after doing all that, they want to just get a do-over.

No.

And why not?
Why not just have a jubilee?
It's curious though. We've past the point of compromise. It used to be Fordism and trade unions and whatever to keep the masses happy and give them a reason to kick in. Now it's the carrot instead of the stick. Let's not protect the debtors, let's go back to debtor's prisons and just kick anyone out of the ability to live if they can't pay. Jubilees and similar events were used to stave off revolt, but it seems now the people at the top think they can prevent and counter any revolt.
If any economic summit was serious about fixing economic issues they would call for the abolishment of debt for a renewal, open borders for labor as well as capital, etc. etc. This economic crisis isn't a crisis for them, they're just shifting it onto us

Bob16		2012-02-12 06:18:45 PM

1 votes:

MrEricSir: So would I, but then again you and I both live in the US where we could actually get new jobs.

5 Unemployed People for Every Job Opening

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/11/5-unemployed-for-every-j o b-opening/

Weaver95		2012-02-12 06:11:54 PM

1 votes:

whatshisname: After nearly 40 yrs of EU forced economics....the shiat has hit the Acropolis

? The EU was formed 20 years ago. Greece joined 10 years ago.

libruls have time machines.

or something.

Weaver95		2012-02-12 06:09:22 PM

1 votes:

so...if Greece implodes...will they take the eurozone economy with them when they die?

Because if the eurozone economy goes under, that'll do bad things to the US economy in the process.

SuwonROKs		2012-02-12 06:08:45 PM

1 votes:

that bosnian sniper: SuwonROKs: Really???? Unfortunately I only have CNN. With the coverage I'm watching, I thought the only thing happening in the world right now is that Whitney Houston died. There is actually something else happening?

Al Jazeera (Link) (new window) is discussing the story right now.

US news media is [i83.photobucket.com image 303x320]SQUIRREL

Yeah I know Al Jazeera is probably showing more news. I just can't stand streaming video on my computer when I'm using it for browsing. Luckily I have nothing to do at work today so I might be able watch some real news when I get there.

Sad about Greece. I was there for my honeymoon last June. We actually attended a couple of the protests out of curiosity and talked to a lot of the locals. Things weren't so heated then and it's really a shame that the government hasn't listened and things have reached this point.

dahmers love zombie		2012-02-12 06:07:13 PM

1 votes:

Weaver95: optional: Weaver95: iran strikes back, forging a hasty alliance with Jordan, Egypt, and quiet backing from saudi arabia and Iraq.

Unlikely. The Arab states fear Iran more than they hate Israel.

i'm making shiat up here as I go along...geez people...work with me here!

ok so Israel strikes Iran, and saudi arabia and iraq stay quietly out of the way and let their enemies fight each other (meanwhile quietly securing a few key resources for later and positioning themselves for after the fight is over).

NATO, of course, is by this time stuck in Greece. Turkey is being intractable and the economic crisis in the eurozone is causing social unrest across europe, which only feeds back into the economic disruption, and creating a vicious cycle. Germany and France pull out of the euro, triggering a wave of economic collapse that washes up on the shores of the US.

meanwhile, here in america, the eurozone crisis and subsquent backlash (as well as the ill advised military foray into Iran to assist in Israel's little war) triggers civil unrest and protests on levels not seen since the anti-war rallies of the late 60's and early 70's. ISPs and telco corporations comply with little known (and previously unused) government regulations and being marking out leaders of local protests and assisting police in rounding up dissidents. 'non-violent' means are used to crush early protests, leading to a number of deaths among the protesters. The right wing beings to organize 'retreats' to private communities of the faithful, while cities and suburbs increasingly become the sites of violence and brutal oppression. basic services (power, water, internet access) become spotty, expensive, and more regulated than ever before. Travel outside of the cities become more difficult, as citizens are tracked more closely. massive lists of political dissidents are assembled, people being to 'disappear'.

No more Tom Clancy novels for you. Bad.

ronaprhys		2012-02-12 06:05:38 PM

1 votes:

ACallForPeace: ronaprhys: So you're saying that the government continuing to borrow money to keep the public on the dole, the public not paying taxes, and continued elections of governments that perpetuated this had nothing to do with it. That it's all the fault of the bankers for actually not giving* them any more money until they show they have some plan to actually become a useful country again?

The government's biggest fault is not defaulting and choosing to do that instead of selling out their entire democracy and country to private institutions.
But even that's semi-out of their hands now, since the IMF/EU/ECB troika stepped in, told the prime minister to step down and replaced him with a banker from part of the group that's largely responsible for this crisis.

You didn't address the point about tax dodging and living on the dole. Nor do you provide any good reason that the banks shouldn't ask for the money back or have a say in the process of getting their money back.

Maybe Grecian politicians should've been smarter. Maybe their citizens should've realized that one cannot get paid by the government to do nothing and then have everyone not pay taxes and expect anything other than financial collapse.

ACallForPeace		2012-02-12 06:01:03 PM

1 votes:

ronaprhys: So you're saying that the government continuing to borrow money to keep the public on the dole, the public not paying taxes, and continued elections of governments that perpetuated this had nothing to do with it. That it's all the fault of the bankers for actually not giving* them any more money until they show they have some plan to actually become a useful country again?

The government's biggest fault is not defaulting and choosing to do that instead of selling out their entire democracy and country to private institutions.
But even that's semi-out of their hands now, since the IMF/EU/ECB troika stepped in, told the prime minister to step down and replaced him with a banker from part of the group that's largely responsible for this crisis.

Weaver95		2012-02-12 06:00:24 PM

1 votes:

svenge:
Then Greece shouldn't have tried to sign up for the EU! Then again, the EU should've seen that Greece wouldn't have integrated well financially with the rest of the bloc and denied their application. A pox on both their houses, I say.

there's a LOT of things that SHOULD have happened in this situation but didn't...

I honeslty don't know how this is gonna shake out. I'm thinking Greece is going to implode no matter what though. i'm just not sure if they'll rip themselves apart in civil war or if they'll just burn themselves to the ground and then starve.

MrEricSir		2012-02-12 06:00:07 PM

1 votes:

Weaver95: MrEricSir: At this point it's pretty hopeless in Greece. People go to work and don't get paid.

If I went to work and my company stopped paying me, I'd be leaving at the end of shift with a couple/few shiny new server racks full of high powered computers and a brand new generator.

So would I, but then again you and I both live in the US where we could actually get new jobs. If we lived in Greece, we'd have to pick up and move somewhere else. And unless we were fluent in another language (i.e. German or English) we'd be pretty much farked.

ronaprhys		2012-02-12 05:59:22 PM

1 votes:

UCFRoadWarrior: Lots of ignorance concerning Greece:

Their "being farked" is not really of their own doing. When they joined the EU, the EU required any member, new or current, to bring up their standard of living to Western European levels. Pretty much the Greeks were forced to to start huge spending programs to bring up wages, retirement, and repaying the bankers who loaned them the money. After nearly 40 yrs of EU forced economics....the shiat has hit the Acropolis

The Greeks are borrowing about $170 billion. Their GNP is about $320 billion. There is no way they can pay off this loan, or any of the previous loans

Of course, the nattering GOP-voting Business Socialist Free Trade Communist-Globalist is going to blame everything on Greek Socialism....but this is what the EU forced on everyone. And, Greece is not the biggest problem....Spain is about ready to explode....and there is not enough money to bail them out

So what you're saying is they didn't think through their cunning plan?

Were they forced into the EU? Is a significant portion of the populace on the dole? Is tax dodging the national sport?

MrEricSir		2012-02-12 05:57:49 PM

1 votes:

that bosnian sniper: Here's an idea. Why not actually force corporations and the rich to pay their damn taxes, so you don't run so deep in the red you kick off a debt crisis which finance and lending institutions capitalize upon to buy up and shortsell mass amounts of debt to cash in on your country's economic collapse, knowing they'll get bailed out thanks to the convenient marriage between financial and political interests?

It's not just the rich, it's everyone. Greek tax laws bizarre, and are filled with bizarre loopholes as well.

Problem is this -- if they started enforcing those tax laws now it's not even clear how many people would be able to pay. The Greeks have a habit of overly-optimistic projections for tax revenues.

AlwaysRightBoy		2012-02-12 05:57:41 PM

1 votes:

I'm surprised they're rioting on the weekends now, last time I was over there (two days after the bank bombing), they usually enjoy the weekend and let the tourists see things.

/protip Greeks; Tourism

Weaver95		2012-02-12 05:57:29 PM

1 votes:

MrEricSir: At this point it's pretty hopeless in Greece. People go to work and don't get paid.

If I went to work and my company stopped paying me, I'd be leaving at the end of shift with a couple/few shiny new server racks full of high powered computers and a brand new generator.

nwarlick		2012-02-12 05:57:15 PM

1 votes:

On the bright side, it looks like my bear 3x market index stock should get a nice bump.

The market has been propping itself up on daily stories about how Greece is working towards a fix. I predict a huge DOW drop Monday morning.

that bosnian sniper		2012-02-12 05:57:09 PM

1 votes:

SuwonROKs: Really???? Unfortunately I only have CNN. With the coverage I'm watching, I thought the only thing happening in the world right now is that Whitney Houston died. There is actually something else happening?

Al Jazeera (Link) (new window) is discussing the story right now.

US news media is i83.photobucket.com

SQUIRREL

MrEricSir		2012-02-12 05:54:32 PM

1 votes:

At this point it's pretty hopeless in Greece. People go to work and don't get paid.

Really the only thing they can do is declare bankruptcy and start over. If the EU says no to that plan, Greece can give them the finger and do it anyway. They'll have to go back to their own currency, but so what?

Weaver95		2012-02-12 05:54:23 PM

1 votes:

that bosnian sniper: You know, is it just me or can you pretty much predict how fark-awful a given situation looks on conservatism in general by how fervently the Fark Independent brigade carpet threadshiats a given article?

Here's an idea. Why not actually force corporations and the rich to pay their damn taxes, so you don't run so deep in the red you kick off a debt crisis which finance and lending institutions capitalize upon to buy up and shortsell mass amounts of debt to cash in on your country's economic collapse, knowing they'll get bailed out thanks to the convenient marriage between financial and political interests?

hey, we can't force corporations to pay taxes! that's SOCIALISMS!

Bob16		2012-02-12 05:53:32 PM

1 votes:

Troy McClure: Okay, but what is the alternative?

Gee thats a hard one. How about making everyone sacrifice instead of protecting the 1 percenters at the cost of the 99%.

RockofAges		2012-02-12 05:51:40 PM

1 votes:

leevis: ACallForPeace: This is what happens when you try squeezing blood out of a turnip.
If you try to punish the lower and working class as a whole and wholesale theft/sellout of their livelihoods and their democracy, to pay off the debts the upper class has accrued expect resistance like this. All this done for foreign creditors. Bankers and corporations getting off free as hell, the government being replaced and practically handpicked by an outside private institution (in Italy as well, goodbye democracy) of "neutral technocrat" free market ideologues imposing the theft of austerity. And the rest of society pays for the failures of the market and the state.
And if you're one of those police trying to enforce the theft from the people, or one of the bankers initiating it, then you should expect that molotov as much as any normal thief would expect the police to come for a visit and toss them in jail.

The debts of the upper class? From everything I've read most of Greece's debts stem from entitlements for the poor and middle class and pensions for government employees.

Yes, because the REVENUE side of the SOCIAL CONTRACT has been SHORTED ON by those with 90+% of ALL of the monopoly money.

"Let the poor bastards rot, I have MY pile of money locked up nice and safe, and beyond circulation / taxation!"

Kumana Wanalaia		2012-02-12 05:47:26 PM

1 votes:

So hey about those "too big to fail" banks... what do you say we go ahead and split them up?

WhyteRaven74		2012-02-12 05:46:56 PM

1 votes:

leevis: From everything I've read most of Greece's debts stem from entitlements for the poor and middle class and pensions for government employees.

They stem mostly from tax dodging being the national sport.

Weaver95		2012-02-12 05:46:23 PM

1 votes:

optional: Weaver95: iran strikes back, forging a hasty alliance with Jordan, Egypt, and quiet backing from saudi arabia and Iraq.

Unlikely. The Arab states fear Iran more than they hate Israel.

i'm making shiat up here as I go along...geez people...work with me here!

ok so Israel strikes Iran, and saudi arabia and iraq stay quietly out of the way and let their enemies fight each other (meanwhile quietly securing a few key resources for later and positioning themselves for after the fight is over).

NATO, of course, is by this time stuck in Greece. Turkey is being intractable and the economic crisis in the eurozone is causing social unrest across europe, which only feeds back into the economic disruption, and creating a vicious cycle. Germany and France pull out of the euro, triggering a wave of economic collapse that washes up on the shores of the US.

meanwhile, here in america, the eurozone crisis and subsquent backlash (as well as the ill advised military foray into Iran to assist in Israel's little war) triggers civil unrest and protests on levels not seen since the anti-war rallies of the late 60's and early 70's. ISPs and telco corporations comply with little known (and previously unused) government regulations and being marking out leaders of local protests and assisting police in rounding up dissidents. 'non-violent' means are used to crush early protests, leading to a number of deaths among the protesters. The right wing beings to organize 'retreats' to private communities of the faithful, while cities and suburbs increasingly become the sites of violence and brutal oppression. basic services (power, water, internet access) become spotty, expensive, and more regulated than ever before. Travel outside of the cities become more difficult, as citizens are tracked more closely. massive lists of political dissidents are assembled, people being to 'disappear'.

leevis		2012-02-12 05:44:56 PM

1 votes:

ACallForPeace: This is what happens when you try squeezing blood out of a turnip.
If you try to punish the lower and working class as a whole and wholesale theft/sellout of their livelihoods and their democracy, to pay off the debts the upper class has accrued expect resistance like this. All this done for foreign creditors. Bankers and corporations getting off free as hell, the government being replaced and practically handpicked by an outside private institution (in Italy as well, goodbye democracy) of "neutral technocrat" free market ideologues imposing the theft of austerity. And the rest of society pays for the failures of the market and the state.
And if you're one of those police trying to enforce the theft from the people, or one of the bankers initiating it, then you should expect that molotov as much as any normal thief would expect the police to come for a visit and toss them in jail.

The debts of the upper class? From everything I've read most of Greece's debts stem from entitlements for the poor and middle class and pensions for government employees.

birdboy2000		2012-02-12 05:42:43 PM

1 votes:

Maybe the Greek government should listen to its people. One can debate all day and night about the merits of austerity vs. default in such a crappy fiscal situation, and what programs should be cut, but the government in power was elected before this crisis and has done an atrocious job of actually listening to the people. If Papendrou had stuck to his guns and called a referendum, these riots wouldn't be happening.

But Greece needs to be "bailed out" and get the IMF package of drastic spending cuts on every program that helps ordinary people so that the foreign bankers can get their debts repaid. They'd be better off with bankruptcy. They want bankruptcy. But their pathetic excuse for democracy won't give it to them.

WhyteRaven74		2012-02-12 05:34:58 PM

1 votes:

GoldSpider: At what point do their leaders say "STOP! We aren't approving a single dime of spending until you people start paying for your shiat!"?

Oh hell, Greek leaders cheat on their own taxes just like everyone else. And they cooked the books for ages to make things look better. When they joined the EU what everyone saw was numbers that had no basis in reality.

genner		2012-02-12 05:33:55 PM

1 votes:

Relatively Obscure: blindpreacher: "A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."

It's fitting that it occurred in the birth place of democracy.

What would you prefer to democracy?

Democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

www.tobacco-news.net

konigsforst		2012-02-12 05:33:46 PM

1 votes:

lazyguineapig33: what the fark is wrong with mediterranean people? can they honest to god not see that a 50 year old retirement age is not possible? the germans went from 65 to 67 with very little complaint. they saw a problem, and squared their shoulders to the task. the greeks/italians/french/spanish by comparison look like menstruating pussies.

Funny that you put shame on the "menstruating pussies" of Southern Europe, but neglect to mention the shiat-fit Blue-balled women in England threw when some of their retirement ages were proposed to come closer to men's retirement age.

/poor things

TofuTheAlmighty		2012-02-12 05:30:28 PM

1 votes:

alltandubh: The bankers never forced the Greek government to borrow billions of euros and go on a wild spending spree.

Greeks never forced banks to loans them billions of dollars that they most likely wouldn't be able to pay back.

The Greek bailout is a bailout of the banks by foisting the burdens onto those least able to bear them.

Also, regardless of how much you white knight them, bankers aren't going to sleep with you.

blindpreacher		2012-02-12 05:27:48 PM

1 votes:

"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."

It's fitting that it occurred in the birth place of democracy.

WhyteRaven74		2012-02-12 05:27:47 PM

1 votes:

James Scameron: what do the Greeks actually make there? urns? olive oil? whats left to export? bad sexist one liners?

That's one of their problems, they don't really make much. And they aren't particularly good with the whole infrastructure thing either.

TappingTheVein		2012-02-12 05:26:44 PM

1 votes:

You mean a welfare country where nobody pays taxes will face economical trouble ?
What they are trying to do now is to delay the inevitable: Greece will default. Better sooner than later.

James Scameron		2012-02-12 05:23:48 PM

1 votes:

i bet the smell of cheap aftershave and hair grease mixed with burning chest fur mingled with teargas is an overpoweringly delicious .....with a side of feta and .....

/get over yourself Papadopoulos
//what does a greek musician drive?
//A Vangelis!

no but on a serious note...

what do the Greeks actually make there? urns? olive oil? whats left to export? bad sexist one liners?

no but seriously...

evoke		2012-02-12 05:20:50 PM

1 votes:

Austerity measures? Why? All you have to do is spend more of the governments money and everything will sort itself out. At least that's what the libs tell me...

boobsrgood		2012-02-12 05:19:25 PM

1 votes:

Do they have oil wells? No? Tell us how that works out, then.

ACallForPeace		2012-02-12 05:17:29 PM

1 votes:

AntiNorm: That, or they're just like the Occupy idiots -- they want sh*t for free.

Herpity doo da.
Yeah, it's not like the upper class has just been getting shiat for free at our expense or anything. It's all about free shiat, not about taking back a raw deal. Yerppp.

beta_plus: So Democracy is ending in its Birthplace. Thanks Socialism!

/B-B-B-But Austerity!
//You mean the austerity that wouldn't be necessary if Greece had lived within its means in the first place. Yeah, about that ...
///wait until this happens in democracy of 300 million people with 5000 nuclear weapons

Democracy ended when the IMF and other debt-collectors stepped in to override the people's choice and choose the government they wanted. Capitalism and democracy seem to have become incompatible as opposed to socialism. And when capitalism is in crisis, historically the response is to throw in for a fascist movement as an extreme way to protect their wealth.

DavidVincent		2012-02-12 05:13:58 PM

1 votes:

Let's give them Paul Krugman. He is a Nobel prize winner.

skinink		2012-02-12 05:10:02 PM

1 votes:

Maybe if you cheap Greek citizens had paid your taxes like you should have and your gov't wasn't so farked up, you wouldn't have such massive debt problems. Thank you, PIIGS for making the U.S. look like a fiscally responsible nation.