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(News.com.au)   On the bright side, there's lots of new ruins to visit in Greece   (news.com.au ) divider line
    More: News, Greece, mass protests, Whitney Houston, riots  
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24949 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Feb 2012 at 5:02 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-12 05:05:23 PM  
Wow they have it backwards. You're supposed to pillage before you burn.
 
2012-02-12 05:05:51 PM  
I'm not sure how to feel about this without more Fark.com opinions
 
2012-02-12 05:07:14 PM  
Get it together, Georgia.
 
2012-02-12 05:07:57 PM  
Oh, THIS will be a good thread.

/something something jackbooted thugs
//something something there are other ways to raise money, etc.
///I'm going to eat dinner
 
2012-02-12 05:08:46 PM  
This is what happens when you try squeezing blood out of a turnip.
If you try to punish the lower and working class as a whole and wholesale theft/sellout of their livelihoods and their democracy, to pay off the debts the upper class has accrued expect resistance like this. All this done for foreign creditors. Bankers and corporations getting off free as hell, the government being replaced and practically handpicked by an outside private institution (in Italy as well, goodbye democracy) of "neutral technocrat" free market ideologues imposing the theft of austerity. And the rest of society pays for the failures of the market and the state.
And if you're one of those police trying to enforce the theft from the people, or one of the bankers initiating it, then you should expect that molotov as much as any normal thief would expect the police to come for a visit and toss them in jail.
 
2012-02-12 05:09:28 PM  
This will certainly fix Greece's economy.
 
2012-02-12 05:10:02 PM  
Maybe if you cheap Greek citizens had paid your taxes like you should have and your gov't wasn't so farked up, you wouldn't have such massive debt problems. Thank you, PIIGS for making the U.S. look like a fiscally responsible nation.
 
2012-02-12 05:10:29 PM  
How do you put out a greece fire?
 
2012-02-12 05:11:06 PM  
The Greek people need yet another bailout, and they're pissed that they're going to have to cut back? What, did they go to the Barack Obama school of economics?

That, or they're just like the Occupy idiots -- they want sh*t for free.
 
2012-02-12 05:11:39 PM  
A democracy is always temporary in nature;
it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.
A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover
that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.
From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates
who promise the most benefits from the public treasury,
with the result that every democracy will finally collapse
due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.

So Democracy is ending in its Birthplace. Thanks Socialism!

/B-B-B-But Austerity!
//You mean the austerity that wouldn't be necessary if Greece had lived within its means in the first place. Yeah, about that ...
///wait until this happens in democracy of 300 million people with 5000 nuclear weapons
 
2012-02-12 05:11:39 PM  
People with no money and no jobs getting upset when everything is taken away, when their leaders don't listen to them, and instead put the people that caused the problems (the bankers) in charge?

That's unpossible.
 
2012-02-12 05:11:53 PM  
a.imageshack.us
 
2012-02-12 05:11:53 PM  
They should just drop the Euro.
 
2012-02-12 05:13:01 PM  
How do you put out a greece fire?

Duh, dump money on it.
 
2012-02-12 05:13:58 PM  
Let's give them Paul Krugman. He is a Nobel prize winner.
 
2012-02-12 05:17:20 PM  
so here's one scenario - Greece implodes into civil war. Turkey decides that this is a great time to shift the borders a bit, and gets into a tiff with remaining loyalist elements within Greece. NATO (and the UN) try to play peacemaker while the guys in suits divide up whatever's left of the country's infrastucture.

meanwhile, Iran completes its nuclear weapons program, prompting Israel to launch a coordinated attack on Iran. iran strikes back, forging a hasty alliance with Jordan, Egypt, and quiet backing from saudi arabia and Iraq.

Here in the US, members of congress (deeply indebted to both banking interests AND Israel lobbyists) push to get the United States to put troops into the Israeli warzone to help the jews fight their war....but they're hampered by the accelerating collapse of the eurozone economy, which is spiking unemployment here in the states. Homeland security and domestic police forces begin an unprecedented crackdown on political dissidents.

China....well, we can cover that later, if there's any interest.
 
2012-02-12 05:17:29 PM  

AntiNorm: That, or they're just like the Occupy idiots -- they want sh*t for free.


Herpity doo da.
Yeah, it's not like the upper class has just been getting shiat for free at our expense or anything. It's all about free shiat, not about taking back a raw deal. Yerppp.

beta_plus: So Democracy is ending in its Birthplace. Thanks Socialism!

/B-B-B-But Austerity!
//You mean the austerity that wouldn't be necessary if Greece had lived within its means in the first place. Yeah, about that ...
///wait until this happens in democracy of 300 million people with 5000 nuclear weapons


Democracy ended when the IMF and other debt-collectors stepped in to override the people's choice and choose the government they wanted. Capitalism and democracy seem to have become incompatible as opposed to socialism. And when capitalism is in crisis, historically the response is to throw in for a fascist movement as an extreme way to protect their wealth.
 
2012-02-12 05:19:25 PM  
Do they have oil wells? No? Tell us how that works out, then.
 
2012-02-12 05:20:12 PM  

The Irresponsible Captain: People with no money and no jobs getting upset when everything is taken away, when their leaders don't listen to them, and instead put the people that caused the problems (the bankers) in charge?


The bankers never forced the Greek government to borrow billions of euros and go on a wild spending spree. But nowadays it seems that bankers can be blamed for just about anything (not that they`re holy innocents, but it`s a hell of a long way from recognizing that some bankers are irresponsible to claiming that they are at the root of all the world`s problems). Supporters of big government are naturally the ones most frantic to deflect attention away from the failure of their ideology by scapegoating financiers. It`s pathetic.
 
2012-02-12 05:20:50 PM  
Austerity measures? Why? All you have to do is spend more of the governments money and everything will sort itself out. At least that's what the libs tell me...
 
2012-02-12 05:21:53 PM  
I love the smell of capitalism in the morning.

τίγρη! τίγρη! τίγρη! Κλωτσήσει κάποιο γάιδαρο, ανόητοι!
 
2012-02-12 05:22:05 PM  

beta_plus: A democracy is always temporary in nature;
it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.
A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover
that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.
From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates
who promise the most benefits from the public treasury,
with the result that every democracy will finally collapse
due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.

So Democracy is ending in its Birthplace. Thanks Socialism!

/B-B-B-But Austerity!
//You mean the austerity that wouldn't be necessary if Greece had lived within its means in the first place. Yeah, about that ...
///wait until this happens in democracy of 300 million people with 5000 nuclear weapons



So, you just quote-argued that democracy can never "succeed." Fine. What's your alternative?
 
2012-02-12 05:22:13 PM  
I'm feeling all Archduke Ferdinandy right now...
 
2012-02-12 05:22:40 PM  

LeafyGreens: I'm not sure how to feel about this without more Fark.com opinions


Let me help you out

Congratulations! You've gifted one free month of TotalFark to LeafyGreens.
 
2012-02-12 05:23:18 PM  
what the fark is wrong with mediterranean people? can they honest to god not see that a 50 year old retirement age is not possible? the germans went from 65 to 67 with very little complaint. they saw a problem, and squared their shoulders to the task. the greeks/italians/french/spanish by comparison look like menstruating pussies.
 
2012-02-12 05:23:48 PM  
i bet the smell of cheap aftershave and hair grease mixed with burning chest fur mingled with teargas is an overpoweringly delicious .....with a side of feta and .....

/get over yourself Papadopoulos
//what does a greek musician drive?
//A Vangelis!

no but on a serious note...

what do the Greeks actually make there? urns? olive oil? whats left to export? bad sexist one liners?

no but seriously...
 
2012-02-12 05:26:01 PM  

alltandubh: The bankers never forced the Greek government to borrow billions of euros and go on a wild spending spree.


Which isn't actually the problem in Greece. If dodging taxes wasn't the national sport, they'd be doing alright. As it is, it is, and they cooked the books and some other fun stuff.
 
2012-02-12 05:26:44 PM  
You mean a welfare country where nobody pays taxes will face economical trouble ?
What they are trying to do now is to delay the inevitable: Greece will default. Better sooner than later.
 
2012-02-12 05:27:17 PM  

boobsrgood: Do they have oil wells? No? Tell us how that works out, then.


They don't have oil wells, but they do have oil that grows on trees.
 
2012-02-12 05:27:47 PM  

James Scameron: what do the Greeks actually make there? urns? olive oil? whats left to export? bad sexist one liners?


That's one of their problems, they don't really make much. And they aren't particularly good with the whole infrastructure thing either.
 
2012-02-12 05:27:48 PM  
"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."

It's fitting that it occurred in the birth place of democracy.
 
2012-02-12 05:27:55 PM  

Relatively Obscure: So, you just quote-argued that democracy can never "succeed." Fine. What's your alternative?


I kinda believe that dictatorship is the purest form of human society.
But then, I have a nihilistic streak.
 
2012-02-12 05:27:57 PM  
That's sad. I like their yogurt.
 
2012-02-12 05:28:49 PM  

blindpreacher: "A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."

It's fitting that it occurred in the birth place of democracy.


What would you prefer to democracy?
 
2012-02-12 05:29:33 PM  

lazyguineapig33: what the fark is wrong with mediterranean people? can they honest to god not see that a 50 year old retirement age is not possible? the germans went from 65 to 67 with very little complaint. they saw a problem, and squared their shoulders to the task. the greeks/italians/french/spanish by comparison look like menstruating pussies.


Not to mention outside of a few agricultural products the Greeks don't make anything anybody else wants. If an export power house like Germany needs to tweak their retirement system how the hell can the Greeks think they can get away without changing it?
 
2012-02-12 05:29:50 PM  

Rev. Skarekroe: Relatively Obscure: So, you just quote-argued that democracy can never "succeed." Fine. What's your alternative?

I kinda believe that dictatorship is the purest form of human society.
But then, I have a nihilistic streak.


Maybe. There certainly have been a lot of 'em.
 
2012-02-12 05:30:28 PM  

alltandubh: The bankers never forced the Greek government to borrow billions of euros and go on a wild spending spree.


Greeks never forced banks to loans them billions of dollars that they most likely wouldn't be able to pay back.

The Greek bailout is a bailout of the banks by foisting the burdens onto those least able to bear them.

Also, regardless of how much you white knight them, bankers aren't going to sleep with you.
 
2012-02-12 05:30:58 PM  

Relatively Obscure: Rev. Skarekroe: Relatively Obscure: So, you just quote-argued that democracy can never "succeed." Fine. What's your alternative?

I kinda believe that dictatorship is the purest form of human society.
But then, I have a nihilistic streak.

Maybe. There certainly have been a lot of 'em.


Well thanks to Czar Mao Fartbama, we're already one. Yeah.
 
2012-02-12 05:31:13 PM  
Kratos?
 
2012-02-12 05:31:34 PM  
meanwhile, Iran completes its nuclear weapons program, prompting Israel to launch a coordinated attack on Iran. iran strikes back, forging a hasty alliance with Jordan, Egypt, and quiet backing from saudi arabia and Iraq.

Duh. The Saudi fear Iran, so they will cheer on any Israeli attack on Iran. They've already made it known thru back channels that they won't stop Israeli warplanes cutting thru their airspace on their way to Iran.

Do try to keep up..
 
2012-02-12 05:31:54 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Which isn't actually the problem in Greece. If dodging taxes wasn't the national sport, they'd be doing alright. As it is, it is, and they cooked the books and some other fun stuff.


And nobody realized that there was no revenue coming in until now?? At what point do their leaders say "STOP! We aren't approving a single dime of spending until you people start paying for your shiat!"?
 
2012-02-12 05:32:12 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: alltandubh: The bankers never forced the Greek government to borrow billions of euros and go on a wild spending spree.

Greeks never forced banks to loans them billions of dollars that they most likely wouldn't be able to pay back.

The Greek bailout is a bailout of the banks by foisting the burdens onto those least able to bear them.


Agree completely.

As I said in the redlit thread:

The big thing I keep seeing is that these measures need to be taken to prevent a Greek default which could damage global markets"

If I'm a Greek citizen, I'm not giving two sh*ts about global markets and want Greece to serve me at the expense of those markets.

Clearly a default is bad for the citizens too, but taking from the already-suffering has consequences, especially if this is presented as "take from them because international financial institutions would suffer greatly if we don't."
 
2012-02-12 05:32:39 PM  

I Said: Relatively Obscure: Rev. Skarekroe: Relatively Obscure: So, you just quote-argued that democracy can never "succeed." Fine. What's your alternative?

I kinda believe that dictatorship is the purest form of human society.
But then, I have a nihilistic streak.

Maybe. There certainly have been a lot of 'em.

Well thanks to Czar Mao Fartbama, we're already one. Yeah.


Aw, dang :( You mean we didn't even come up with a really cool and ominous march tune first?
 
2012-02-12 05:33:46 PM  

lazyguineapig33: what the fark is wrong with mediterranean people? can they honest to god not see that a 50 year old retirement age is not possible? the germans went from 65 to 67 with very little complaint. they saw a problem, and squared their shoulders to the task. the greeks/italians/french/spanish by comparison look like menstruating pussies.


Funny that you put shame on the "menstruating pussies" of Southern Europe, but neglect to mention the shiat-fit Blue-balled women in England threw when some of their retirement ages were proposed to come closer to men's retirement age.

/poor things
 
2012-02-12 05:33:55 PM  

Relatively Obscure: blindpreacher: "A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."

It's fitting that it occurred in the birth place of democracy.

What would you prefer to democracy?


Democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

www.tobacco-news.net
 
2012-02-12 05:34:01 PM  

GoldSpider: WhyteRaven74: Which isn't actually the problem in Greece. If dodging taxes wasn't the national sport, they'd be doing alright. As it is, it is, and they cooked the books and some other fun stuff.

And nobody realized that there was no revenue coming in until now?? At what point do their leaders say "STOP! We aren't approving a single dime of spending until you people start paying for your shiat!"?


The leaders say that at the very very very last minute. The books weren't balanced in the US when we got into two wars, but taxes never went up because the government's gonna do what the governments gonna do. And that was when the small government fiscal conservatives were in power.
 
2012-02-12 05:34:08 PM  
I know there's the whole argument that it will shake faith in the Euro, and concern about what happens the next time another member has economic issues, but they really should think about just cutting Greece loose at this point. This just keeps getting worse and there's no end in sight.
 
2012-02-12 05:34:52 PM  

alltandubh: Supporters of big government are naturally the ones most frantic to deflect attention away from the failure of their ideology by scapegoating financiers. It`s pathetic.


Relatively Obscure: So, you just quote-argued that democracy can never "succeed." Fine. What's your alternative?


The market and state are symbiotic. The way they developed historically as well as how they function today.
Arguing between "big government" and "financiers" or market/state left/right is arguing over two different hinds of the same animal, they work for each other unless the bureaucrat and merchant are fighting over turf.
There are many alternatives given by anarchist/autonomous movements.
Debt: The First 5000 Years and almost anything by David Graeber is a good insight to this. PDF of Debt. (new window)
Alternatively, Negri's autonomous writings through "Empire" and its continuations are more insight.
Exarchia in Greece is more or less an autonomous zone, the Zapatistas in Mexico, the reoccupation of factories in Argentina.
Of course, it doesn't even need to go that far. The alter-globalization movement convinced many countries to kick the IMF out, and Iceland and Argentina have told these economic mafia arm-breakers to fark right off before.
 
2012-02-12 05:34:58 PM  

GoldSpider: At what point do their leaders say "STOP! We aren't approving a single dime of spending until you people start paying for your shiat!"?


Oh hell, Greek leaders cheat on their own taxes just like everyone else. And they cooked the books for ages to make things look better. When they joined the EU what everyone saw was numbers that had no basis in reality.
 
2012-02-12 05:35:19 PM  

I Said: TofuTheAlmighty: alltandubh: The bankers never forced the Greek government to borrow billions of euros and go on a wild spending spree.

Greeks never forced banks to loans them billions of dollars that they most likely wouldn't be able to pay back.

The Greek bailout is a bailout of the banks by foisting the burdens onto those least able to bear them.

Agree completely.

As I said in the redlit thread:

The big thing I keep seeing is that these measures need to be taken to prevent a Greek default which could damage global markets"

If I'm a Greek citizen, I'm not giving two sh*ts about global markets and want Greece to serve me at the expense of those markets.

Clearly a default is bad for the citizens too, but taking from the already-suffering has consequences, especially if this is presented as "take from them because international financial institutions would suffer greatly if we don't."


Too big to fail. Greece is too big to fail...but not as big as those banks. They are even too bigger to fail.

You can't prop up forever. I tried that once with a tree house when I was little. Propped up one side. Turns out eventually your big brother gets too big and causes a shift which makes the whole west wing fall down. So...what I'm saying is....don't use rotted 2x4s to prop up Greece because my big brother will ruin it for everyone.
 
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