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(Salon) Silly "We need a global currency." Isn't Europe already trying this with the Euro? And isn't it proving to be a great failure?   (salon.com) divider line 144
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1531 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Feb 2012 at 10:43 AM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



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2012-02-12 05:54:35 AM
Yay - Europe is now the whole world - bow down you peasants
 
2012-02-12 07:44:18 AM
We already have a global currency, it's called the U.S. Dollar.
 
2012-02-12 07:44:44 AM
Because letting international banks set monetary policy over the whole world is a great goal?
 
2012-02-12 07:55:12 AM
In an ideal world, it would be a fantastic idea. Same currency the world over, the same value the world over, no conversion necessary, some concerns over counterfeiting, but can be handled across the globe by all nations to share information. In a single mass dose, we all turn in our dollars and rubles into whatever credit chit the new world has. Then we get into our jet cars and ride off into the sunset, happy that Wilma Deering looks so damn good in her spandex, and wondering if the robot has set up that gambling den in the back room yet...

We don't live in an ideal world. And monetary policy is more than just: convert old dollars to new credits. It would end some entire industries based on currency swaps. It would certainly make banking easier across the globe. It would also shift a huge amount of cash to whoever controlled the physical presses, as well the body that determined the exchange rate for the initial conversion. It would put an unprecedented amount of power into hands that I just don't trust right now to look out for even the interests of the folks in their own nations, let alone the world.

Their own class? That's a different story, and it is a rift that is going to continue to grow for some time, as citizenship becomes more of a club that some claim to belong to, as opposed to it meaning all that much to them. Less a matter of pan-nationalism, than a unified class theory, and right now, we are engaged in a bit of class warfare across the world, and the sad thing is: the media is not reporting on it overly much, because the folks who control those presses don't really like to illustrate that, but LOOK, IT'S AN AMERICAN WITH A BIG GUN! LOOK A SCARY MUSLIM! HEY, IS THAT PIPA IN SHORT SKIRT?
 
2012-02-12 08:03:27 AM
BillCo: We already havehad a global currency, it's it was called the U.S. Dollar.

ftfy
 
2012-02-12 08:17:21 AM
When did the Euro go global? Last night I bought my 40-dog with good ol' 'Merican greenbacks (and a Canadian quarter)
 
2012-02-12 08:56:46 AM
How about no.

Ever.
 
2012-02-12 09:08:30 AM
The Euro was a mistake. You can't have multiple countries with individual governments all using the same currency. You need a single government for a single currency, or every country has to be at least roughly equal in development.
 
2012-02-12 09:26:07 AM
Globalization is already farking us over and that's just from outsourcing. If anything we should be more isolationist.
 
2012-02-12 09:26:51 AM
GAT_00: The Euro was a mistake. You can't have multiple countries with individual governments all using the same currency. You need a single government for a single currency, or every country has to be at least roughly equal in development.

To be fair, there are folks who figure that the Euro was a first step towards that end. The problem being, the 1500 years of Europeans beating the snot out of one another as nations, and the longer history of tribalism that each has based their national identities upon, and putting the idea out of setting all that aside from the get go, that was a bit too radical for the public. Instead, join economies, as much as joint security forces, then merge nations together into a union that would scare the bejeebus out of the former Soviet states, and make the US somewhat uncomfortable as well, despite our allied status with every single one of the potential signatories.

Then cue the New World Order conspiracy theorists.

I think that is where Europe is heading. Economic interests are so nested at this point, that it is a natural enough progression. How to achieve it is going to be the question. Especially with business interests being very wary of a consolidation of power, though a banking haven to exist on that scale? That is really the goal. Not a single entity, but a place of refuge to head into after raiding developing economies, and keeping them in that status, that seems to be more where the money is headed. That there will be a captive and educated market is likewise nice, but there is a history of trouble there as well, given the deep roots of European socialism that will undercut profit margins, and a reliance on the state to actually provide stuff that means that the creation of such a state has to be considered very carefully. There are a lot of elements to go into a merging of so many nations, and it's not a simple matter of balancing nationalistic urges, but to create a pastiche that will serve a variety of interests.

It ain't going to be easy...
 
2012-02-12 09:31:09 AM
Might as well try to have the same weather all over the world....
 
2012-02-12 09:49:28 AM
Mugato: Globalization is already farking us over and that's just from outsourcing. If anything we should be more isolationist.

I am very ok with trade.

I am not ok with Free Trade. It destroys local economies and causes financial imbalances.
 
2012-02-12 10:33:33 AM
Nadie_AZ: Mugato: Globalization is already farking us over and that's just from outsourcing. If anything we should be more isolationist.

I am very ok with trade.

I am not ok with Free Trade. It destroys local economies and causes financial imbalances.


It depends on what you are chamioning as "Free Trade." I am all for the freedom to compete, and the freedom to compete fairly.

Which is the exact opposite of what most folks who shout FREE TRADE! mean. They want the freedom to do any damn thing they want, without restriction and without any regulation or hinderance of squashing their competition by hook or crook. It should never the be free of regulation, but rather, the freedom to compete, and compete fairly. When everyone is on the same basic footing, so that the best products, services, and strategies rise to the top. What we have now, are folks who like to game the system, and want to institutionalize that to keep anyone else from getting anything up on them.

It is a perversion of the system, and it is offensive folks who want to see real competition drive things.
 
2012-02-12 10:49:22 AM
Krugman writes about the problems of a global currency in The Return of Depression Economics.
 
2012-02-12 10:50:11 AM
And for the Paulistas -- isn't the Gold Standard the same idea?
 
2012-02-12 10:51:30 AM
With a global currency, how could a Government just print more money to try and fix all its problems? The solution to all problems is just to print more money. See US Recovery.
 
2012-02-12 10:52:56 AM
Nadie_AZ: Mugato: Globalization is already farking us over and that's just from outsourcing. If anything we should be more isolationist.
I am very ok with trade.
I am not ok with Free Trade. It destroys local economies and causes financial imbalances.


"Free Trade" has mostly been a push to circumvent the human-rights and environmental progress in America by treating human desperation as a natural resource.
 
2012-02-12 10:53:16 AM
Globalism and world currency are utterly inevitable. The transition, however, won't be easy at all. For things like currency I'm pretty sure we ought to wait a bit longer. Wait for the Internet to do its work of connecting us and spreading our ideas more evenly across the globe. Undertake projects to modernize and connect the nations still lagging behind.

If we try to globalize while ignorance and vast inequality are still the rule, we're not going to do very well.
 
2012-02-12 10:55:24 AM
Look, this is really simple: The Euro expanded too quickly to countries that had no business operating under the single currency. Hell, there's a decent argument that Italy and Spain had no business being elevated to the level of the Mark from the outset.

By way of comparison, Mexico has one of the world's largest economies, but can you imagine putting the Peso on the same level as the $US? No? Then why would you allow Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Cyprus a similar consideration? They could have done every other measure but the single currency, waited a few decades, then integrated once everyone's financial system was robust enough, but no, political considerations gave way to common sense?

Don't believe me? Turkey has one of the world's most vibrant economies, but they aren't about to become EU currency members.

Why?

We get it: they're Muslim (and too brown)
 
2012-02-12 10:56:18 AM
Go back and study our Articles of Confederation to understand why Europe both tried to build a unified currency and why it's having trouble.

If you are going to share a currency then you need to share a government that is a lot stronger and more central than the EU. But governments seldom devolve powers to higher authorities willingly.

That being said, it's going to be a long time before we get any government body higher than our federal government. Although I suspect some interesting things will come along with the AI singularity. If we're lucky, we'll get a technocratic rule bent on increasing overall human happiness. If we get what we deserve it'll make the matrix movies look optimistic.
 
2012-02-12 10:56:56 AM
GAT_00: The Euro was a mistake. You can't have multiple countries with individual governments all using the same currency. You need a single government for a single currency, or every country has to be at least roughly equal in development.

That's the rub. Global currency is foot in the door for global government.
 
2012-02-12 11:01:14 AM
We don't need a global currency. We need a global language. I propose an international symposium of experts to develop a universally accepted international sign language. Teach it in our schools and in a single generation everyone on earth will be able to talk to everyone else. In terms of transformative social change it would be without peer.
 
2012-02-12 11:02:17 AM
Arkanaut: And for the Paulistas -- isn't the Gold Standard the same idea?

Yes.

gold actually is the world standard, that is what governments keep their wealth in. they just took the everyday currency the peasants use, (that would be us), off the gold standard so they can inflate anytime they want to.
 
2012-02-12 11:02:31 AM
Lionel Mandrake: When did the Euro go global? Last night I bought my 40-dog with good ol' 'Merican greenbacks (and a Canadian quarter)

Subby's point is that Europe has already tried tying together a bunch of disparate economies with different regulatory structures and different policies regarding debt, etc, using a single currency...

... and it did not end well.

If we could hand off the regulation of monetary policy for the entire world to a single agency that could make binding decisions about things like debt caps and could be trusted to actually enforce them and apply their power in an even-handed fashion... maybe global currency is viable. Until then? How about no.
 
2012-02-12 11:02:33 AM
wildcardjack: Go back and study our Articles of Confederation to understand why Europe both tried to build a unified currency and why it's having trouble.

If you are going to share a currency then you need to share a government that is a lot stronger and more central than the EU. But governments seldom devolve powers to higher authorities willingly.

That being said, it's going to be a long time before we get any government body higher than our federal government. Although I suspect some interesting things will come along with the AI singularity. If we're lucky, we'll get a technocratic rule bent on increasing overall human happiness. If we get what we deserve it'll make the matrix movies look optimistic.


Pretty much. If they want to join a firmer union, then a singular currency would be appropriate. Instead, they tried it the other way around. Introduce a common currency then cohese into a stronger political union. Europe will, I suspect, become a singular nation, and the funny thing, is if they do it right, then every nation in it will believe that their nations finally carved Euope into the single empire that they've all dreamed of...well, since the Romans left.
 
2012-02-12 11:02:42 AM
LasersHurt: Globalism and world currency are utterly inevitable. The transition, however, won't be easy at all. For things like currency I'm pretty sure we ought to wait a bit longer. Wait for the Internet to do its work of connecting us and spreading our ideas more evenly across the globe. Undertake projects to modernize and connect the nations still lagging behind.

If we try to globalize while ignorance and vast inequality are still the rule, we're not going to do very well.


There will be a few wars in between now and then.

Simple fact is that governments play with the value of their currency for their own benefit as well as to mess with other countries.
Giving control of your money (the whole worlds money) to a third party, basically gives them, whoever they are, the power to FARK over whole nations.

Not everyone is going to accept that kind of thing with grace.
 
2012-02-12 11:05:08 AM
wildcardjack: Go back and study our Articles of Confederation to understand why Europe both tried to build a unified currency and why it's having trouble.

If you are going to share a currency then you need to share a government that is a lot stronger and more central than the EU. But governments seldom devolve powers to higher authorities willingly.

That being said, it's going to be a long time before we get any government body higher than our federal government. Although I suspect some interesting things will come along with the AI singularity. If we're lucky, we'll get a technocratic rule bent on increasing overall human happiness. If we get what we deserve it'll make the matrix movies look optimistic.




The problem is that nations like Spain and Greece took economic advice from free market neoliberals and monetarists like Alan Greenspan -- just like we did in this country. It resulted in the same problem -- lots of debt, corruption, and systemic risk. The United States, however, has a central bank that can act to make sure the whole system doesn't come apart. Greece and Spain no longer do -- and the people running the Euro central bank who could do something are tight assed Germans who won't. It's causing major problems.
 
2012-02-12 11:07:48 AM
In case anyone doubts that gold is already the international standard:

Officially reported gold holdings (new window)

/Fiat money is for the little people
 
2012-02-12 11:12:19 AM
tomWright: In case anyone doubts that gold is already the international standard:

Officially reported gold holdings (new window)

/Fiat money is for the little people


Shiny rocks are for idiots.
 
2012-02-12 11:17:06 AM
LasersHurt: tomWright: In case anyone doubts that gold is already the international standard:

Officially reported gold holdings (new window)

/Fiat money is for the little people

Shiny rocks are for idiots.


This. Also, been looking for a chance to repost this; here seems like as good a place as any:

farm8.staticflickr.com
 
2012-02-12 11:19:08 AM
Keynes Bancor? (new window)
 
2012-02-12 11:22:14 AM
tomWright: Arkanaut: And for the Paulistas -- isn't the Gold Standard the same idea?

Yes.

gold actually is the world standard, that is what governments keep their wealth in. they just took the everyday currency the peasants use, (that would be us), off the gold standard so they can inflate anytime they want to.


So... how do you feel about the Gold vs Euro comparison?
 
2012-02-12 11:23:09 AM
LasersHurt: tomWright: In case anyone doubts that gold is already the international standard:

Officially reported gold holdings (new window)

/Fiat money is for the little people

Shiny rocks are for idiots.


Calling gold "shiny rocks" proves you to be an idiot.
 
2012-02-12 11:26:12 AM
We're going to have a global currency. It's inevitable.

We effectively already have one, and it's called VISA.

Given it 40 years, we'll have global Paypal-VISA credits. Old national currencies may still exist, but they'll be like gold today. The average person will have nothing to do with them.
 
2012-02-12 11:29:50 AM
I like how my Dad described this. He likened it to having a party where everyone brings a bottle of wine. Some bring really nice stuff, some bring decent stuff but most bring MD 20/20, Night Train and Richard's Wild Irish Rose. Then, they all pour it into a giant punch bowl. Voila, you now have the Euro.
 
2012-02-12 11:30:30 AM
Whether you like it or not, a global currency is coming. Oh, there will still be national currencies and regional currencies like the Euro, but all of them will be tied to a universal reserve currency backed by international investment banks. Over time, we may see local currencies fall away in favor of trading directly in the reserve currency, or a host of suoer-local micro-currencies spring up, but all if them will just be facets if the global mega-currency so it doesn't matter.

/same thing with governments
//get used to it
///the world is a business, Mr. Beale
 
2012-02-12 11:30:38 AM
Arkanaut: tomWright: Arkanaut: And for the Paulistas -- isn't the Gold Standard the same idea?

Yes.

gold actually is the world standard, that is what governments keep their wealth in. they just took the everyday currency the peasants use, (that would be us), off the gold standard so they can inflate anytime they want to.

So... how do you feel about the Gold vs Euro comparison?


dunno. What/which comparison?
 
2012-02-12 11:34:51 AM
tomWright: Arkanaut: tomWright: Arkanaut: And for the Paulistas -- isn't the Gold Standard the same idea?

Yes.

gold actually is the world standard, that is what governments keep their wealth in. they just took the everyday currency the peasants use, (that would be us), off the gold standard so they can inflate anytime they want to.

So... how do you feel about the Gold vs Euro comparison?

dunno. What/which comparison?


That going back to the Gold Standard would work about as well for us (or everybody who adopts it) as the Euro did for Europe?
 
2012-02-12 11:35:49 AM
Driving Without Pants: a global currency is coming.

Not it's not.
 
2012-02-12 11:36:44 AM
DarnoKonrad: Driving Without Pants: a global currency is coming.

Not it's not.


No it's not, rather.
 
2012-02-12 11:40:37 AM
Wait til the EU enacts their own Interstate-Commerce Clause. That'll fix 'em!
 
2012-02-12 11:41:45 AM
The problem with the Euro was that it expanded too rapidly to countries too economically weak to embrace a new currency. There is no problem with having a global currency. The logistics in switching a currency to another is the main problem. Stricter banking protocols and state finances need to be obtained before entering the Euro. Had they stricter standards, the Greeks and Spaniards would not have been allowed into the Euro zone until they fixed their systemic economic problems.

Remember when each US state had it's own currency and all the problems that that caused? The constant conversions were wreaking havoc with trade. Having a national currency allayed many of the problems caused by the conversion and disparity of value between currencies.

The people that do not want a global currency include those that are afraid of the erosion of their own pay or the value of their goods and commodities.
 
2012-02-12 11:42:23 AM
DarnoKonrad: DarnoKonrad: Driving Without Pants: a global currency is coming.

Not it's not.

No it's not, rather.


China and western investment banks are pushing hard for it. They will get it as soon as the dollar and Euro collapse. Welcome to the 21st century.
 
2012-02-12 11:42:46 AM
The Euro has been a massive success, does anyone remember what Germany was like shortly before it started - talking about a lost generation being dragged down due to the massive costs of East German accession? Plenty of countries like Ireland that had been stuck in an unproductive rut for decades? Even with the current problems the Euro has been a massive boost to virtually all the countries in it, and its not as if they would have been immune to investing in the screwy US investment products that took the system down - or the global shiatstorm that happened when they collapsed - even if they hadn't joined the Euro.
 
2012-02-12 11:46:50 AM
Driving Without Pants: China and western investment banks are pushing hard for it.

What forwarded email told you this?

Driving Without Pants: They will get it as soon as the dollar and Euro collapse.

*eye roll*
 
2012-02-12 11:49:16 AM
s2s2s2: LasersHurt: tomWright: In case anyone doubts that gold is already the international standard:

Officially reported gold holdings (new window)

/Fiat money is for the little people

Shiny rocks are for idiots.

Calling gold "shiny rocks" proves you to be an idiot.


Yes, it's a metal. So shiny metal. Still farking stupid to the nth degree.
 
2012-02-12 11:59:19 AM
Byno: Don't believe me? Turkey has one of the world's most vibrant economies, but they aren't about to become EU currency members.

same reason as japan? (not part of europe)
 
2012-02-12 12:03:54 PM
"Would it make more sense to have one currency for the entire world?"

no, no it would not.
If greece has not been enough of an example against this idea, toss in protugal, spain, italy and the US.

Unless countries gave up their sovereignty or were allowed to go bankrupt, a single currency wouldnt really solve anything :P
 
2012-02-12 12:09:33 PM
MyRandomName: With a global currency, how could a Government just print more money to try and fix all its problems? The solution to all problems is just to print more money. See US Recovery.

but unless you have MASSIVE inflation (the recent US inflation has BEEN TINY), printing money is fine.

The best part of the call for a new or different global currency to replace the US dollar is that ANYONE can do this.
The euro has been a GREAT experiment for creating a balance to the US dollar. OPEC keeps talking about a PETRO-dollar.
They could do that tomorrow and only sell oil in petro-dollars. Everyone else would be required to buy and sell them.
China is talked about as the 3rd big currency. The DAY that China lets their currency float on the open market is the day they take their real place in the global market.
 
2012-02-12 12:09:52 PM
namatad: "Would it make more sense to have one currency for the entire world?"

no, no it would not.
If greece has not been enough of an example against this idea, toss in protugal, spain, italy and the US.

Unless countries gave up their sovereignty or were allowed to go bankrupt, a single currency wouldnt really solve anything :P


My question is, what problems would a global currency be designed to solve...?
 
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