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(Entertainment Weekly)   Ahmed Best talks about a deleted Jar Jar Binks scene that really would have redeemed his character and made a huge difference in The Phantom Menace   (insidemovies.ew.com) divider line 134
    More: Unlikely, Jar Jar, The Phantom Menace, Star Wars, Binks, Ahmed Best, Attack of the Clones, breakout character, Ian McDiarmid  
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11657 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 12 Feb 2012 at 3:47 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



134 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-02-12 12:04:24 AM  
Seppuku?
 
2012-02-12 12:17:57 AM  

2wolves: Seppuku?


LOL a hundred thousand times this.
 
2012-02-12 12:48:40 AM  

MadSkillz: 2wolves: Seppuku?

LOL a hundred thousand times this.


deleted scene
as in if all of them were deleted

or the scene where his mommy didnt love him so he grew up completely retarded
 
2012-02-12 01:11:03 AM  
If they had kept that one scene in, then Jar Jar would've made some sense.
 
2012-02-12 01:14:33 AM  
Someone on fark once made the comment: since jar jar put palpatine in power, does that mean the whole thing is his fault?
 
2012-02-12 02:02:41 AM  
was it the part where he told lucas that talking in a retarded fake Jamaican accent would look stupid??
 
2012-02-12 02:09:19 AM  

Sim Tree: Someone on fark once made the comment: since jar jar put palpatine in power, does that mean the whole thing is his fault?


I bet that's how Lucas wrote it after the reception of the Phantom CGI.
 
2012-02-12 03:11:01 AM  

namatad: was it the part where he told lucas that talking in a retarded fake Jamaican accent would look stupid??


Apparently the voice was Best's idea.
 
2012-02-12 03:15:01 AM  

doglover: I bet that's how Lucas wrote it after the reception of the Phantom CGI.


You're giving Lucas too much credit.
 
2012-02-12 03:24:06 AM  

namatad: MadSkillz: 2wolves: Seppuku?

LOL a hundred thousand times this.

deleted scene
as in if all of them were deleted

or the scene where his mommy didnt love him so he grew up completely retarded


The scene where Jar Jar's daddy jerked off to Gungan porn instead of making Jar Jar.
 
2012-02-12 03:37:51 AM  
i866.photobucket.com
 
2012-02-12 03:58:21 AM  
I wish that Han had shot Jar Jar first.
 
2012-02-12 04:00:11 AM  
I have said this before. Jar Jar Binks is not the worst thing in the prequels. He's not even the worst thing in that first movie. Let that sink in.

He was better acted, less irritating, and had more to do with the story than that damned Anakin kid, for one thing.
 
2012-02-12 04:05:02 AM  
Is a scene where jar Jar says "Meesa can't even be standing meself!" and puts a blaster in this mouth?
 
2012-02-12 04:09:44 AM  
What do I think should have happened to Jar-Jar? Obi-wan should have just taken the Dark Side point and cut his head off within five minutes of meeting him.
 
2012-02-12 04:11:09 AM  

SwissArmyGnome: I have said this before. Jar Jar Binks is not the worst thing in the prequels. He's not even the worst thing in that first movie. Let that sink in.

He was better acted, less irritating, and had more to do with the story than that damned Anakin kid, for one thing.


Lucas isn't much of a director with actual actors let alone a child. I am don't think it was the fault of an eight year old that the movie is mediocre at best.

Lucas should of done the 1st draft of the screen play then passed the rough draft and directing duties to someone else.
 
2012-02-12 04:37:25 AM  

2wolves: Seppuku?


Last person out turn off the lights.
 
2012-02-12 04:38:05 AM  

Lone Stranger: i866.photobucket.com


Yeah, let's steal MadTV jokes, that's clever.
 
2012-02-12 04:46:59 AM  
Gungans, Ewoks, Trade Federation things. If Genocide were socially acceptable that would be the order.
 
2012-02-12 04:49:14 AM  

Coelacanth: If they had kept that one scene in, then Jar Jar would've made some sense.


Honestly, him standing up to introduce the legislation that activated the villain's trap card was in itself probably the high point of the second movie for me. I mean, it causes the trilogy to transition from "stupid people have whacky hijinks, but there's no harm done and it's all for the best" into stupid disregard for logic, reason and decorum suddenly having some pretty dire consequences.

Still by far the worst of the prequels, which were collectively basically disappointingly mediocre, but still a high point in that context.
 
2012-02-12 04:54:27 AM  
Stop it with the Lucas threads! I don't have enough time to keep re-watching the Plinkett reviews!
 
2012-02-12 04:59:51 AM  
What's with all the Phantom Menace / Jar Jar Binks threads these days? I see three on the entertainment page without even scrolling.
 
2012-02-12 05:06:07 AM  

Uncle Tractor: What's with all the Phantom Menace / Jar Jar Binks threads these days? I see three on the entertainment page without even scrolling.


That stupid 3D version coming out.
 
2012-02-12 05:17:23 AM  
If Palpatine had thanked Jar Jar and then thrown his ass off the bridge with some force lightning, then that scene would have made the final cut.
 
2012-02-12 05:20:41 AM  

Myria: Uncle Tractor: What's with all the Phantom Menace / Jar Jar Binks threads these days? I see three on the entertainment page without even scrolling.

That stupid 3D version coming out.


You mean the one you all hate so very much but can't shut up about?
 
2012-02-12 05:22:39 AM  
I like Jar Jar.
I liked the Gungans, and found their underwater society intriguing and wish it could have been revisited.
I didn't like the racial aspects.
They weren't the only ones to suffer negative racial stereotyping.

I also thought having anakin act like an actual kid instead of a 70 year old in a 10 year old's body was fresh. That just isn't done, in American movies. All little kids have to be smarter and wiser than adults. Anakin acting like a real child was jarring, wasn't it?

I believe the problems with the pre-trilogy had to do with lack of coherent story and dismissal/disrespect of two decades worth fan fiction and extended universe canon for no other reason than .... I don't know. These movies should never have had Star wars attached to them. They should have been a parallel universe type story, with different characters instead of nostalgia porn. If these three movies didn't have 'star wars' in front of them, they'd be better received in hindsight... kind of like if FFX-2, FF12 and FF13 -- and especially the movie -- didn't have Final Fantasy attached, they'd all be better received.
 
2012-02-12 05:27:45 AM  

Uncle Tractor: What's with all the Phantom Menace / Jar Jar Binks threads these days? I see three on the entertainment page without even scrolling.


It's amazing. People have been writing space operas since the 1920s and the only one that ever gets any love is Star Wars.

Look up Stanley Weinbaum and H. Beam Piper and Alan E. Nourse on Project Gutenberg. The downloads are free!
 
2012-02-12 05:28:53 AM  
I couldn't help but hear Best's interview quotes in Jar Jar's voice.
 
2012-02-12 05:32:56 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: I also thought having anakin act like an actual kid instead of a 70 year old in a 10 year old's body was fresh. That just isn't done, in American movies. All little kids have to be smarter and wiser than adults. Anakin acting like a real child was jarring, wasn't it?


It would've been more miraculous if they could've gotten Hayden Christensen to act.
 
2012-02-12 05:49:22 AM  

Coelacanth: It's amazing. People have been writing space operas since the 1920s and the only one that ever gets any love is Star Wars.


We really do need a new one. I'm sick of Star Wars. If they could take the Mass Effect universe and give it some better writing, I'd buy a movie ticket.
 
2012-02-12 05:51:14 AM  

Zavulon: What do I think should have happened to Jar-Jar? Obi-wan should have just taken the Dark Side point and cut his head off within five minutes of meeting him.


A retirement to Alderaan would be the best outcome for that character.
 
2012-02-12 06:06:46 AM  

Mentalpatient87: We really do need a new one. I'm sick of Star Wars. If they could take the Mass Effect universe and give it some better writing, I'd buy a movie ticket.


Space Viking by H. Beam Piper Link (new window)

If you fancy yourself to be a bit of a libertarian or a pirate, this is your book.
 
2012-02-12 06:13:25 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: I also thought having anakin act like an actual kid instead of a 70 year old in a 10 year old's body was fresh. That just isn't done, in American movies. All little kids have to be smarter and wiser than adults. Anakin acting like a real child was jarring, wasn't it?


The problem wasn't Anakin acting like a child, it was Anakin acting like an unreasonably cherubic child. Even in the absence of context, a kid from the extreme end of a lower-class upbringing in the mob-owned neighborhood having no socially unacceptable habits whatsoever was enough to set off even and actual 10-year-old's fake-dar.

Add to that how the movie was promoted:

www.moviegoods.com

Come on, seriously... you literally promise us foreshadowing and we don't get a single hint of suppressed anger in the kid? Not some element of jealousy or controlling nature? Nothing?

Hell, I was overall a good kid from a middle-class neighborhood and at 10 years I had plenty of obvious aggression issues, and I didn't grow up to murder even one youngling.
 
2012-02-12 06:37:30 AM  

Coelacanth: If you fancy yourself to be a bit of a libertarian or a pirate, this is your book.


Can I get one for people who don't care for silly ideological labels?
 
2012-02-12 06:42:33 AM  

Jim_Callahan: The problem wasn't Anakin acting like a child, it was Anakin acting like an unreasonably cherubic child. Even in the absence of context, a kid from the extreme end of a lower-class upbringing in the mob-owned neighborhood having no socially unacceptable habits whatsoever was enough to set off even and actual 10-year-old's fake-dar.

Add to that how the movie was promoted:

[www.moviegoods.com image 200x294]

Come on, seriously... you literally promise us foreshadowing and we don't get a single hint of suppressed anger in the kid? Not some element of jealousy or controlling nature? Nothing? Hell, I was overall a good kid from a middle-class neighborhood and at 10 years I had plenty of obvious aggression issues, and I didn't grow up to murder even one youngling.


Hadn't thought about that. You do raise some serious points. None of the other slave children (played by the Lucas moppets) did either, though. But you raise some serious points. Didn't have to be Hailey Eisenberg, just Haley Joel Osment. We did get a hint with older Anakin in Clone, when Shmi was killed.

Maybe a story with a kid who's happy go lucky because his life is good because his mother shields him from the realities of being a slave/lower class (some Life is Beautiful type shiat, or it's opposite where the kids are happy because all they know is slavery and degradation and this is just how the world is.. but the audience should be given more to chew on that the kids can't see), and ......the coming disillusionment with the social order, and being lied to by Palpatine and the others like Dooku about what they are planning to do to change things so that even poor kids can survive but come to find out Palpatine just wants power and the ability to oppress causing disillusionment but Anakin thinks it's too late and that's why he succumbs to the darkside and no matter how bad ass he is, we get shades of the first movie where Darth Vader -- for all his badassness -- is actually a lackey... and the emperor's whole thing is his need to control Darth out of some twisted paternal shiat coupled with fearful shiat and making Darth believe this was for the good of the Empire........ or I don't know.

But you're right. That movie poster was a hell of a thing to live up to, yes. And it didn't.

I liked the suggestion in the other thread, to make the shiat talked about in Phantom Menace backstory instead of a whole movie. I think Lucas was constrained by having to do three movies because that's what was expected of him; that, and being a slave to linear story telling.

/wishes jar jar were jedi/sith
//god damn I hate midiclorians.
 
2012-02-12 07:06:41 AM  

Mentalpatient87: Can I get one for people who don't care for silly ideological labels?


Read it, you'll love it. Some of H. Beam Piper's stuff have been ripped off for decades by role-playing game companies and other writers. A million plagiarists can't be wrong. I'm pretty darn sure that Ewoks were based on Fuzzies (big difference is that the average reader cares about Fuzzies).
 
2012-02-12 07:41:09 AM  
Was it the "my breasts, megassa squeeze them" scene?

Probably not, never is.
 
2012-02-12 07:42:49 AM  
I realize that the new 3D version is out, and Lucas does not have enough of our money yet, but...
cdn.stripersonline.com
/I will leave it to some one else to put the Gungan face in - photoshop not real keen on Sunday morning
 
2012-02-12 07:59:27 AM  
The prequels had no soul. They were clumsily overbearing train wrecks. With long boring action sequences in substitute of any depth or character detail. They come off as kids movies.
He should never have made them.
 
2012-02-12 08:15:34 AM  

SwissArmyGnome: I have said this before. Jar Jar Binks is not the worst thing in the prequels. He's not even the worst thing in that first movie. Let that sink in.

He was better acted, less irritating, and had more to do with the story than that damned Anakin kid, for one thing.


So much this. I don't harbor much hate toward Best. It takes a singular vision to make Ray Park, Ewan MacGregor and Liam Neeson painful to watch and that lies right at the bloated lap of Lucas himself.
 
2012-02-12 08:26:54 AM  
Bagshot: What about the Ewoks? They were rubbish! You don't complain about them!
Tim: Yeah, but Jar Jar Binks makes the Ewoks look like... farking Shaft!

That said, people who put the whole responsibility onto Jar Jar are simply looking for something to tag their general annoyance on. If the story and characters had been good, people would have overlooked Jar Jar.
 
2012-02-12 08:33:05 AM  

farkeruk: Bagshot: What about the Ewoks? They were rubbish! You don't complain about them!
Tim: Yeah, but Jar Jar Binks makes the Ewoks look like... farking Shaft!

That said, people who put the whole responsibility onto Jar Jar are simply looking for something to tag their general annoyance on. If the story and characters had been good, people would have overlooked Jar Jar.


If the movies had been good, Lucas could have claimed the right of prima notte with every SW geek out there for the rest of his life. Instead, when his vision was criticized, he chose to show contempt for the very people that built his empire. I'm not a fanboy, but I know bad editing, bad pacing, wooden acting, a poor script, and lazy direction when I see it. No George, no more of my money for you.

It's OK. From what I hear, he redeemed himself with Red Tails. Can't wait to see his next vision brought to the big screen!
 
2012-02-12 08:42:24 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: I liked the suggestion in the other thread, to make the shiat talked about in Phantom Menace backstory instead of a whole movie. I think Lucas was constrained by having to do three movies because that's what was expected of him; that, and being a slave to linear story telling.


The webcomic Darths and Droids accidentally patched up most of the glaringly bad stuff in the writing, albeit usually with tongue pretty firmly in cheek. The Anakin-is-a-little-angel thing was solved by turning the "mean kids pick on the poor little tyke" scene into a schoolyard fight that gets out of hand and ends in Anakin killing (albeit accidentally) the other guy. This is what motivates the rapid departure from Tattooine and results in leaving the mother behind, rather than the contrived nonsense that the actual movies used. That was all the movie needed, one hint of lost control.

Of course, the writing failure for little Anakin was kind of compounded by the acting failure for adult Anakin. Christiansen's decision to spit out every line like he was already a chaotic evil blood knight from his first minute on screen (when, you'll recall, he's a well-regarded padawan who is liked by everyone around him according to his told character) instead of at least trying to seem like a nice guy made the transition jarring and out of character even more than the bad writing.
 
2012-02-12 08:46:51 AM  
I hate saying this, because it hurts as a fan, but star wars really wasn't all that good. Don't get me wrong, there hasn't really been anything made since it that's been all around better than what we got with the first 3 movies, but looking back the acting was fairly mediocre and the plot wasn't all that inspired and there was a lot of stuff that plain didn't make any senese.

Given the gap in years from then (and how heavily Lucas collaborated on the original movies, especially the second move, the Empire Strikes Back, which is easily the most superior movie of the entire lot) it's easy to see how once given free creative reign he could craft a bunch of stinkers.

I mean, fark it, George Lucas isn't really all that farking talented. He got lucky with one concept and then made a few other servicable movies. Have any of you seen the latest Indiana Jones movie? If that's not an argument for Lucas losing whatever few marbles he had as a writer to age and hubris, then I don't know what is.
 
2012-02-12 08:50:34 AM  
I believe this is the scene he is talking about

/or it oughta be
//there is a fansub of TPM somewhere, that edits all of Jar Jar's parts out
///and most of Anikins
////makes the movie mostly watchable
//THAT'S how terrible those characters were
 
2012-02-12 08:50:39 AM  

brokenrecord: The prequels had no soul. They were clumsily overbearing train wrecks. With long boring action sequences in substitute of any depth or character detail. They come off as kids movies.
He should never have made them.


It was shiatloads of CGI trying to cover up lazy film-making and horrible scripts.
RedLetterMedia's reviews should be mandatory viewing to anyone who is still trying to convince himself that the prequels didn't suck.
 
2012-02-12 08:56:04 AM  

Jim_Callahan: ExperianScaresCthulhu: I liked the suggestion in the other thread, to make the shiat talked about in Phantom Menace backstory instead of a whole movie. I think Lucas was constrained by having to do three movies because that's what was expected of him; that, and being a slave to linear story telling.

The webcomic Darths and Droids accidentally patched up most of the glaringly bad stuff in the writing, albeit usually with tongue pretty firmly in cheek. The Anakin-is-a-little-angel thing was solved by turning the "mean kids pick on the poor little tyke" scene into a schoolyard fight that gets out of hand and ends in Anakin killing (albeit accidentally) the other guy. This is what motivates the rapid departure from Tattooine and results in leaving the mother behind, rather than the contrived nonsense that the actual movies used. That was all the movie needed, one hint of lost control.

Of course, the writing failure for little Anakin was kind of compounded by the acting failure for adult Anakin. Christiansen's decision to spit out every line like he was already a chaotic evil blood knight from his first minute on screen (when, you'll recall, he's a well-regarded padawan who is liked by everyone around him according to his told character) instead of at least trying to seem like a nice guy made the transition jarring and out of character even more than the bad writing.


That's one of many problems. Anakin in Clones doesnt even vaguely resemble Anakin from TPM. His impatience and brooding angst are never adequately explained.
 
2012-02-12 08:57:23 AM  
Was that the scene where he was invisable, didn't make a sound and no one knew he was there? All three movies sucked and not because of jar jar.
 
2012-02-12 08:59:19 AM  

Ishkur: I believe this is the scene he is talking about


Then people would complain about how such an excellent swimmer wouldn't have just dove in the water.
 
2012-02-12 09:06:23 AM  

OregonVet: Then people would complain about how such an excellent swimmer wouldn't have just dove in the water.


Suspension of disbelief is much more believable when it's something in the audience's favor (like how Indiana Jones managed to stay on top of that sub for ~300 miles all the way to the island without being detected).

And by that point in the movie, the audience had had enough of Jar Jar's special brand of scenery-chewing.
 
2012-02-12 09:22:03 AM  
Well, the fact that they even act like a single scene can change a movie and a half's worth of crap highlights a major issue with the writing.

Characters shouldn't turn on a dime. Sure, you can have that one 'scene' that can be identified as the pivot point, but the audience must believe that such a change is possible, likely, or understood.

I can just as easily believe that Jar-Jar would be perceived as a puppet politician in one scene as I would believe that a person can go from normal to baby-murdering maniac in 45 seconds.
 
2012-02-12 09:24:31 AM  

SwissArmyGnome: I have said this before. Jar Jar Binks is not the worst thing in the prequels. He's not even the worst thing in that first movie. Let that sink in.

He was better acted, less irritating, and had more to do with the story than that damned Anakin kid, for one thing.


True, but Jar Jar is a close second. I've never been able to sit through the entire phantom menace because of that insufferable kid. And I've tried a handful of times.
 
2012-02-12 09:25:21 AM  
Best thinks that ANOTHER scene where characters walk down a hallway talking politics would have made the movies BETTER?

The political nonsense is what made the movies so dreadfully boring to begin with
 
2012-02-12 09:25:36 AM  
media.screened.com

"If Roger Rabbit had been made by Satan himself."
 
2012-02-12 09:27:09 AM  

Derwood: Best thinks that ANOTHER scene where characters walk down a hallway talking politics would have made the movies BETTER?

The political nonsense is what made the movies so dreadfully boring to begin with


That, and the endless streaming flat "sexual tension" dialogue between that rat-tailed eunuch and the frigid clown woman.
 
2012-02-12 09:29:05 AM  

born_yesterday: farkeruk: Bagshot: What about the Ewoks? They were rubbish! You don't complain about them!
Tim: Yeah, but Jar Jar Binks makes the Ewoks look like... farking Shaft!

That said, people who put the whole responsibility onto Jar Jar are simply looking for something to tag their general annoyance on. If the story and characters had been good, people would have overlooked Jar Jar.

If the movies had been good, Lucas could have claimed the right of prima notte with every SW geek out there for the rest of his life. Instead, when his vision was criticized, he chose to show contempt for the very people that built his empire. I'm not a fanboy, but I know bad editing, bad pacing, wooden acting, a poor script, and lazy direction when I see it. No George, no more of my money for you.

It's OK. From what I hear, he redeemed himself with Red Tails. Can't wait to see his next vision brought to the big screen!


From everything I've heard Red Tails sucks, and has all the problems of other Lucas-controlled films.
 
2012-02-12 09:43:15 AM  

Mentalpatient87: Lone Stranger: i866.photobucket.com

Yeah, let's steal MadTV jokes, that's clever.


Is the stick up your arse painful?
 
2012-02-12 09:50:58 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Hell, I was overall a good kid from a middle-class neighborhood and at 10 years I had plenty of obvious aggression issues, and I didn't grow up to murder even one youngling.



brainofjay.files.wordpress.com

NO ANAKIN!! I TOLD YOU TO GO AHEAD AND KILL OFF THE REST OF THE YUENGLING!!
 
2012-02-12 10:15:47 AM  

thamike: NO ANAKIN!! I TOLD YOU TO GO AHEAD AND KILL OFF THE REST OF THE YUENGLING!!


LOL.
 
2012-02-12 10:27:42 AM  
As I've said many times before, if Lucas had revealed in the third movie that Jar Jar was the actual Dark Lord of the Sith and the Emperor the Sith apprentice, Jar Jar would have gone down as the greatest villain in cinematic history this side of Darth Vader. The character would have made complete sense and all of the stupid stuff that happened in the first film would have had a whole new subtext.

But, alas. Lucas has such contempt for his fans that he decided that Jar Jar needs to not only be stupid, but also simple-minded and tragic in the end. That's what you get for trying to replicate success on your own that was originally built with the creative contributions of hundreds of other people. Lucas was a great visionary leader on the first three films, but he proved what a terrible writer and director he is in the prequels.
 
2012-02-12 10:30:26 AM  

kibbled: SwissArmyGnome: I have said this before. Jar Jar Binks is not the worst thing in the prequels. He's not even the worst thing in that first movie. Let that sink in.

He was better acted, less irritating, and had more to do with the story than that damned Anakin kid, for one thing.

Lucas isn't much of a director with actual actors let alone a child. I am don't think it was the fault of an eight year old that the movie is mediocre at best.

Lucas should of done the 1st draft of the screen play then passed the rough draft and directing duties to someone else.


lucas didnt direct the 3 films
lucas did the cool special effects directing and had someone else direct the real people.
hahahahahahah
in other words, no one cared about the rest of the film

lucas "you want to play an alien and have the worlds most annoying accent? SWEET!!!"
lucas "you want to have a love scene between anakin and padma? ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww"

and yah
jar jar was just one of many terrible parts of those movies
 
2012-02-12 10:32:29 AM  

FooDog: SwissArmyGnome: I have said this before. Jar Jar Binks is not the worst thing in the prequels. He's not even the worst thing in that first movie. Let that sink in.

He was better acted, less irritating, and had more to do with the story than that damned Anakin kid, for one thing.

True, but Jar Jar is a close second. I've never been able to sit through the entire phantom menace because of that insufferable kid. And I've tried a handful of times.


this is why the FSM made skip and fast forward
talking about pod racing? skip
anakin? skip
jar jar? skip

ooooooooooooooooo light sabers and darth maul

so, it is like a 10 min movie??
:D
 
2012-02-12 10:35:40 AM  
So the essential arc of Jar-Jar is that a borderline retarded black man gains a senate seat through affirmative because Amidala wants to enforce racial equality in the Naboo parliament after decades of Gungan oppression, and this stupid black man then brings about the collapse of the government due to his overwhelming retarded blackness?

It's worse than the "Five dorrar! Five dorrar!" Chinese whackiness of the Trade Federation. Or the hook-nosed Shylock rubbing his dirty hands together over the sale of Anakin's mother.
 
2012-02-12 10:38:21 AM  
Did it look like this?

img820.imageshack.us
 
2012-02-12 10:38:40 AM  
I've seen the deleted scene that he is talking about and agree 100%. It takes place before they all landed on Tatooine and what happens in it really added a lot of depth to the later scene where he steps in the poopy.

It would've saved the prequels.
 
2012-02-12 10:49:04 AM  

Derwood: Best thinks that ANOTHER scene where characters walk down a hallway talking politics would have made the movies BETTER?


"Man, if only Jar Jar's political career had been brought to fruition on screen...

a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com

CZAR CZAR BINKS
 
2012-02-12 10:50:01 AM  

thamike: Jim_Callahan: Hell, I was overall a good kid from a middle-class neighborhood and at 10 years I had plenty of obvious aggression issues, and I didn't grow up to murder even one youngling.


[brainofjay.files.wordpress.com image 640x480]

NO ANAKIN!! I TOLD YOU TO GO AHEAD AND KILL OFF THE REST OF THE YUENGLING!!


I laughed 'til I stopped.

seriously...Yuengling out the nose and everything.
 
2012-02-12 10:59:57 AM  

TwistedFark: I hate saying this, because it hurts as a fan, but star wars really wasn't all that good. Don't get me wrong, there hasn't really been anything made since it that's been all around better than what we got with the first 3 movies, but looking back the acting was fairly mediocre and the plot wasn't all that inspired and there was a lot of stuff that plain didn't make any senese.


You're right but the big difference is that the original Star Wars is fun to watch. No movie can be perfect, and Star Wars had tons of flaws, but who hasn't dreamed of flying an X-wing? Or just being Luke, or Han, or even Darth Vader? For all the nitpick bullshiat things that are wrong with it, there's so much that's right.

Which is why all the Star Wars retcon things piss me off so much. Just admit it was a flaw, don't try and make up some BS excuse why the Kessel run was a distance not a time.
 
2012-02-12 11:00:28 AM  

SwissArmyGnome: I have said this before. Jar Jar Binks is not the worst thing in the prequels. He's not even the worst thing in that first movie. Let that sink in.

He was better acted, less irritating, and had more to do with the story than that damned Anakin kid, for one thing.


This. Jar Jar was a lightning rod as to what was wrong with the initial movie. but ultimately, he served his purpose as a kid-friendly character, and though silly, a tight script and well-directed movie would have not suffered from his inclusion. His irritating traits were harder to overlook because aside from about 5 minutes of lightsaber fights in the first movie, there was nothing for adults to enjoy. Anakin was terrible and was one of the most poorly acted child roles that I have ever seen in a motion picture. I've seen kids that were better actors on daytime soap operas.

I actually blame Jake Lloyd less than I do Lucas. Lucas cannot get a decent performance out of an actor. If you have Liam Neeson, Natalie Portman and Ewan McGregor in your movie and critics talk repeatedly about how lifeless all 3 of them are, then the fault is going to be on the director, not the actors. If Liam Neeson can't get going as a Jedi master, then what chance does a little kid have playing the future dark lord of the Sith?

I swear, I always think I'm done biatching about the prequels, but I just get dragged back in every time.
 
2012-02-12 11:03:10 AM  
A long time ago I actually had thought up a plot for what phantom menace should have been(almost anything is better than what was seen.) It went something like this:

Anakin is not on Tattoine first and foremost. This coincidental crap has to be cut out. Where do we hide baby luke? On the planet Anakin was born of course!!! Totally logical!!

I pictured anakin as being born on some dystopian like planet where he was something like a slave child gladiator be forced to provide entertainment to wealthy elites. His mother tries to tend his wounds from the matches and his father while stern does his best to try and train him to stay alive for possible manumission while imparting unto him a warriors code. This would have served a few purposes.

1) The training would have honed his reflexes which would have explained his reputed battle prowess remarked on by Obiwan later in the story line.

2) Being surrounded by death and violence all the time could be used to show him developing a disturbed personality opening him up for later manipulation by palpatine to embrace the darkside and his own suppressed rage.

3) It would have given Quigon or whatever his name is a stronger reason to take an interest in Anakin as he would see Anakin as a potential force using massmurderer if someone didn't remove him from that environment.

4) Somehow the father would have died(at the hands of alien guards) trying to get anakin out of the gladiator pits thus removing someone extremely close and steering him straight. Only his mother remains trying to calm anakins seething hostility towards aliens.

5) Somehow they get to naboo and their is a gungan type race only it is much more lizard like and looks kind of like bipedal iguanas. The replacement for Jar Jar (lets call him jamie) would have been exiled on religious grounds. Not able to produce eggs is taken as a sign of the Gods displeasure with a grievous sin and so she is an outcast looking for vindication and saying things like "The Gods know no sin is upon me!!!"

6) the Gungan replacements don't have a huge clunky army like what is depicted but instead a sleeker one that takes advantage of stealth, camoflage, and misdirection to confuse the droid army and lead it into a trap.

7) Darth maul is on Naboo and while fighting in the residential area with the jedi kills both Wuigon and Anakins mother reinforcing Anakin's hatred of aliens and causing him to lash out with the force without any control obliterating almost everything around him and ripping Darth Maul apart. He then faints.

8) Obiwan having witnessed and barely survived Anakins force display takes him to train as a jedi because he is obviously dangerous and if not trained will start killing with the force in fits of rage. Killing him while he is a child is clearly not the way of the jedi. He tries to pick up where Anakins father left off, instilling in anakin a code of honor and trying to calm his fury and by now pronounced xenophobia.
 
2012-02-12 11:03:59 AM  

GoldSpider: That's one of many problems. Anakin in Clones doesnt even vaguely resemble Anakin from TPM. His impatience and brooding angst are never adequately explained.


I wouldn't be surprised if Lucas just wanted to show how a good kid can make bad decisions while a teen, then turn to a life of sex, Sith, and shiatty music.

But since Lucas swims in the money of nerds and drinks in their attention like a drunken college girl, I bet he just said "Teens are angsty for no reasons! Amirite parents?"
 
2012-02-12 11:10:29 AM  

Gergesa: A long time ago I actually had thought up a plot for what phantom menace should have been(almost anything is better than what was seen.) It went something like this:

Anakin is not on Tattoine first and foremost. This coincidental crap has to be cut out. Where do we hide baby luke? On the planet Anakin was born of course!!! Totally logical!!

I pictured anakin as being born on some dystopian like planet where he was something like a slave child gladiator be forced to provide entertainment to wealthy elites. His mother tries to tend his wounds from the matches and his father while stern does his best to try and train him to stay alive for possible manumission while imparting unto him a warriors code. This would have served a few purposes.

1) The training would have honed his reflexes which would have explained his reputed battle prowess remarked on by Obiwan later in the story line.

2) Being surrounded by death and violence all the time could be used to show him developing a disturbed personality opening him up for later manipulation by palpatine to embrace the darkside and his own suppressed rage.

3) It would have given Quigon or whatever his name is a stronger reason to take an interest in Anakin as he would see Anakin as a potential force using massmurderer if someone didn't remove him from that environment.

4) Somehow the father would have died(at the hands of alien guards) trying to get anakin out of the gladiator pits thus removing someone extremely close and steering him straight. Only his mother remains trying to calm anakins seething hostility towards aliens.

5) Somehow they get to naboo and their is a gungan type race only it is much more lizard like and looks kind of like bipedal iguanas. The replacement for Jar Jar (lets call him jamie) would have been exiled on religious grounds. Not able to produce eggs is taken as a sign of the Gods displeasure with a grievous sin and so she is an outcast looking for vindication and saying things l ...


I'd have loved Anakin to have been played by the second Tom Riddle from the Harry Potter films. Genuinely creepy.
 
2012-02-12 11:11:13 AM  
Also, not sure if anybody has linked to this yet...

ANI, DEES ARE SOME NICE-A DUDS-EEPOOPA (new window)
 
2012-02-12 11:13:58 AM  

Bungles: I'd have loved Anakin to have been played by the second Tom Riddle from the Harry Potter films. Genuinely creepy.


They should have cast Macauley Culkin, as he is now, for young Anakin. It would explain why adult Darth Vader is over seven feet tall with a face too frightening to behold.
 
2012-02-12 11:14:02 AM  

Bungles: I'd have loved Anakin to have been played by the second Tom Riddle from the Harry Potter films. Genuinely creepy.


Sadly Lucas is bad at casting as well.
 
2012-02-12 11:18:24 AM  

Gergesa: Bungles: I'd have loved Anakin to have been played by the second Tom Riddle from the Harry Potter films. Genuinely creepy.

Sadly Lucas is bad at casting as well.



Ewan McGregor was on-the-money casting (even if acting in a green screen box severly undermined his skills)

Or cast someone like the kid from The Omen. He has literally only 3 lines, but scares the crap out of you.
 
2012-02-12 11:20:10 AM  

Gergesa: Bungles: I'd have loved Anakin to have been played by the second Tom Riddle from the Harry Potter films. Genuinely creepy.

Sadly Lucas is bad at casting as well.


nerdpai.com

Dis..Dis hunk-a-JUunK...IT MADE...the kessel RUN...in tuh-WELVE PAAAHsecs.
 
2012-02-12 11:34:13 AM  
Revenge of the Sith, submitter. Not The Phantom Menace. It's right there in the headline.
 
2012-02-12 11:38:32 AM  

Sun Worshiping Dog Launcher: This. Jar Jar was a lightning rod as to what was wrong with the initial movie. but ultimately, he served his purpose as a kid-friendly character, and though silly, a tight script and well-directed movie would have not suffered from his inclusion.


I can remember the exact moment I facepalmed in the theatre when I first watched The Phantom Menace..... the moment that I realized this was going to be a big, steaming turd and I had wasted my money.

It was right after Qui Gon met Jar Jar in the forest. And Jar Jar is following him around and he exclaims "ex-squeeze me..."

And I thought, "Isn't that a catch phrase from farking Stephanie Tanner on Full House?" ....and then later on, he exclaims "How wude!" and pouts, just like farking Stephanie Tanner.

My mouth gaped open. Why.....is George Lucas....stealing dialogue.... from farking Full House, the most whitebread, milquetoast, offensively lame television show in history?! Why.... is dialogue... from a farking wholesome family television show that ranks on the stomach-churning scale between The Family Circus and Up With People.... in a space fantasy movie?!

WHY DID HE DO THAT?! Did he think it would make Jar Jar cuter, like the Olson twins? Jar Jar's not farking human and he's not a baby. He's a creepy, uncanny-valley affirming motherfarking CGI alien.

This kind of genre-mashing is just so out of place. It'd be like Gandalf riding a skateboard and slam dunking a basketball at Bilbo's birthday party. That's the level of disconnect here.
 
2012-02-12 11:48:12 AM  
Anakin wasn't supposed to be a defective kid. I don't know why everyone is wishing they had gotten an evil, creepy child instead of the happy, good-hearted one. THAT WAS THE POINT. The Dark Side corrupted him. He wasn't always evil.

If he was evil, creepy, and angry in the first place, then what's the point of all of Yoda's warnings about fear and attachment leading to the Dark Side? What's the point of the Jedi's monastic existence? The reason they grab kids when they're babies and train them to be Jedi is because they believe (and rightly so) that the Dark Side or misuse of the Force can lead a person to evil deeds; It's not the other way around!

You aren't evil, then seek out the Dark Side. You're seduced by the Dark Side and become evil.

"You don't know the power of the Dark Side." -Vader

He's saying he wants to be like he was as a young man, but he cannot because the Dark Side holds him hostage and makes him commit the evil acts he knows he has committed. He wishes he could go back to how it was before he was seduced by power and murdered children, but he's a slave to it.

He's always a slave. ALL his life, Anakin/Vader is a slave. He's a slave to Watto and the Hutts, and then he's a slave to love, and finally a slave to the Dark Side and Palpatine.

He isn't free until his son Luke sets him free... And even then it's only to die as a free, sovereign man.

There's another point to his good nature as a child. He is the result of Darth Plagueis manipulating the Force to create life. He is, in essence, a creation of the Dark Side, and yet his nature is kind and benevolent. The Force itself is neutral, and the good/evil comes in how you access and use it. Anakin is a living representation of that-- Sort of the argument that all babies, regardless of their origin or parents, are born agnostic.

Anakin is agnostic in the beginning. He feels the Force, but it's neither dark or light. It's his mother and her love that has made him a good person, and it's the loss of love-- both Shmi's and the threat of losing Padme's-- that makes him desperate enough to use the Dark Side of the Force. He does it when he's young and facing the Tusken Raiders, and he does it later when he believes he's going to lose Padme.

It's a story of a good man who is manipulated BECAUSE he loves so deeply, and is such a noble, good person at heart.

If he were just an evil dick his whole life, then all Obi-Wan would have had to say in ANH was, "I knew your father. He was always kind of an evil dick. Here's his lightsaber; Don't do what he did, kid."

But instead he referred to Anakin as a good friend, a noble soul, a good man, and a hero before he was corrupted by the Dark Side. Obi-Wan NEVER says anything like, "He was always prone to anger and the Dark Side just made it worse." --- He even makes it clear that he believes that Anakin died when the Dark Side took him. Why? Because Anakin was a good man, and what he became was nothing like the man he used to be.

But the way people talk about the kid, it seems like they wanted an asshole who just becomes a powerful asshole when he learns the Force.

Yes, TPM is a dull flick. Yes, it's all set-up and exposition that should have been done in some other format. But it's necessary to understand that Vader wasn't always evil. He was a good person at heart. THAT'S THE DAMNED POINT OF HIS REDEMPTION SCENE IN ROTJ.
 
2012-02-12 11:48:17 AM  
I thought it had been well established that Lucas made the prequals with merchandising being the driving force rather than making good movies.
 
2012-02-12 12:06:58 PM  

Wayne 985: Revenge of the Sith, submitter. Not The Phantom Menace. It's right there in the headline.


Funny thing is, I read 'Revenge of the Sith' in subby's headline when I saw it earlier. It seems to have been changed for some reason. I could be wrong though.
 
2012-02-12 12:11:36 PM  

Nihilist's Guide to Reticent Entropy: Anakin wasn't supposed to be a defective kid. I don't know why everyone is wishing they had gotten an evil, creepy child instead of the happy, good-hearted one. THAT WAS THE POINT. The Dark Side corrupted him. He wasn't always evil.


I think by "evil" or "edge" people meant "not from a My Buddy commercial" and "able to act." If the kid had an ounce of anything other than robotic cute-kid 2.0 running through his veins, nobody would have ever brought it up. Same thing with the sequels. Nobody should blame the actors, in my opinion. The writing was impossible to work with, and the direction seemed almost like Lucas spent the whole shoot huffing markers and trying to figure out how the merchandise would look.
 
2012-02-12 12:14:33 PM  
The problem wasn't the character of binks.

The problem is they took the absolute worst thing about Return and dialed it to 11, and dialed the slapstick to 28.

If George wanted to write a kids comedy show, he should have gone that route.
 
2012-02-12 12:19:20 PM  

Nihilist's Guide to Reticent Entropy: Anakin wasn't supposed to be a defective kid. I don't know why everyone is wishing they had gotten an evil, creepy child instead of the happy, good-hearted one. THAT WAS THE POINT. The Dark Side corrupted him. He wasn't always evil.

If he was evil, creepy, and angry in the first place, then what's the point of all of Yoda's warnings about fear and attachment leading to the Dark Side? What's the point of the Jedi's monastic existence? The reason they grab kids when they're babies and train them to be Jedi is because they believe (and rightly so) that the Dark Side or misuse of the Force can lead a person to evil deeds; It's not the other way around!



Why did Yoda and others thing there was something terribly "off" about Anakin, if he wasn't creepy?
 
2012-02-12 12:30:58 PM  

TyrantII: If George wanted to write a kids comedy show, he should have gone that route.


He did.

www.jeffco.ca

It just came off as Pedo-bacca.

bluraymedia.ign.com

GRAAHHREEEOINGLBLGLBGLGL
 
2012-02-12 12:37:50 PM  

Wonderduck: Mentalpatient87: Lone Stranger: i866.photobucket.com

Yeah, let's steal MadTV jokes, that's clever.

Is the stick up your arse painful?


Lighten up, Francis. A little sarcasm never hurt anyone. Really, stick up my ass?
 
2012-02-12 12:40:33 PM  

Ishkur: This kind of genre-mashing is just so out of place. It'd be like Gandalf Legolas riding a skateboard and slam dunking a basketball at Bilbo's birthday party dwarf-tossing jokes. That's the level of disconnect here.


FTFY
 
2012-02-12 12:41:44 PM  

Nihilist's Guide to Reticent Entropy: Anakin wasn't supposed to be a defective kid. I don't know why everyone is wishing they had gotten an evil, creepy child instead of the happy, good-hearted one. THAT WAS THE POINT. The Dark Side corrupted him. He wasn't always evil.


That's not what I said. I said that there needed to be a hint, some minor flaw in an otherwise heroic character that could build into a heroic flaw later.

It didn't have to be as dramatic as killing another kid, something as simple as intentionally cutting off another racer in the pod race scene in a way that results in injury, and having an adult chide him or even just comment on him cheerfully not caring. Having him freak out about losing his mother to an appreciable degree or at least show some mild understanding of the implications of her still being a slave when he gets to go free.

He's not supposed to be creepy, there just needed to be some manner of conflict that could justify the council's lack of desire to train him. It didn't in any way need to be "the beast rises" conflict, basic "I've been taken from my home planet by 'guardians' who left my mother enslaved to brutal gangsters who are freshly upset with me for losing them a lot of money" conflict would have been fine, and perfectly reasonable as a character motivation. Blithely reacting with angelic temperance and understanding to everything that happened is technically creepy in its own way, sure, but it's the opposite way of the direction that the character is supposed to go. Heroes are supposed to fall because they're too human, making him a goddamned Buddha was retarded.
 
2012-02-12 12:46:32 PM  

Mentalpatient87: Lighten up, Francis. A little sarcasm never hurt anyone. Really, stick up my ass?


Yeah, let's steal Stripes jokes. That's clever.
 
2012-02-12 12:47:24 PM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: I liked the suggestion in the other thread, to make the shiat talked about in Phantom Menace backstory instead of a whole movie. I think Lucas was constrained by having to do three movies because that's what was expected of him; that, and being a slave to linear story telling.


THIS

The first movie should have been more or less episode II then the motherfarking CLONE WARS as the second movie, then episode III as the third movie.
 
2012-02-12 12:52:48 PM  

Tax Boy: FTFY


No argument here. The LOTR movies have good things about them and bad things about them. What earns the most criticism is how "Americanized" the whole operation feels, when it should've been more elegant, more classical, and more "british". It was, essentially, an English mythology that Tolkien wrote, to go with the Norse and Greek mythologies he loved so much.

But hey, who are we to complain. When you spend $300 million dollars over three years and you have one weekend, two tops, to make it all back, you'd make things a little bit more commercial too.
 
2012-02-12 12:54:46 PM  
I believe jar jar wasnt planned to be a politician from the beginning, since lucas was thinking he would be a success in the other films he would join obi wan and anakin in the whole story BUT always as the funny sidekick to be a hero in the end. The politician role and the thing that started the empire was the revenge but this goofyness from the first film was too much. I was thinking if later he would be a serious character, and i mean walking and talking like that other guy from the army and maybe he would join those people who started the rebel alliance (ok ill stop here)
 
2012-02-12 01:05:33 PM  

Nihilist's Guide to Reticent Entropy: Anakin wasn't supposed to be a defective kid. I don't know why everyone is wishing they had gotten an evil, creepy child instead of the happy, good-hearted one. THAT WAS THE POINT. The Dark Side corrupted him. He wasn't always evil.

If he was evil, creepy, and angry in the first place, then what's the point of all of Yoda's warnings about fear and attachment leading to the Dark Side? What's the point of the Jedi's monastic existence? The reason they grab kids when they're babies and train them to be Jedi is because they believe (and rightly so) that the Dark Side or misuse of the Force can lead a person to evil deeds; It's not the other way around!

You aren't evil, then seek out the Dark Side. You're seduced by the Dark Side and become evil.

"You don't know the power of the Dark Side." -Vader

He's saying he wants to be like he was as a young man, but he cannot because the Dark Side holds him hostage and makes him commit the evil acts he knows he has committed. He wishes he could go back to how it was before he was seduced by power and murdered children, but he's a slave to it.

He's always a slave. ALL his life, Anakin/Vader is a slave. He's a slave to Watto and the Hutts, and then he's a slave to love, and finally a slave to the Dark Side and Palpatine.

He isn't free until his son Luke sets him free... And even then it's only to die as a free, sovereign man.

There's another point to his good nature as a child. He is the result of Darth Plagueis manipulating the Force to create life. He is, in essence, a creation of the Dark Side, and yet his nature is kind and benevolent. The Force itself is neutral, and the good/evil comes in how you access and use it. Anakin is a living representation of that-- Sort of the argument that all babies, regardless of their origin or parents, are born agnostic.

Anakin is agnostic in the beginning. He feels the Force, but it's neither dark or light. It's his mother and her love that has made him a good person, and it's the loss o ...


So here is my problem especially in playing The Old Republic which has an entire story arc devoted to the Dark Side acting, in part, like a virus is that it is far too simplistic to simply say "Well, he is innocent here, but he is evil here because he is a badguy in the second movie." I think the argument is that there had to be some sign that Anakin was even vulnerable to the dark side in TPM which they never showed. I mean, we see an Anakin that is some strange Ragged Dick character that doesn't really mind being a slave to Watto and the Hutts and constantly sees corruption or bad actions rewarded (Sebulba is the main marker of this view). I think if they at least showed that Anakin had a problem with authority specifically because he came from a world where authority is specifically corrupt, the story would have made a lot more sense. The other thing that could have done is show Anakin, while on Corruscant, grow to hate the Galactic Senate for not doing what needed to be done in regards to the Clone Wars. Palpatine takes that hatred, balls it with his authority problem, and uses his status as a war hero to allow himself power and gain a new apprentice.

I saw TPM again yesterday, and the problem with showing Anakin as such an innocent youth is the warnings the Council gives on training him seems paranoid or ideologically problematic. We are simply led to believe Yoda because, hell, he's Yoda and he should know what he is talking about. Instead, we don't see Anakin's problem with political authority until the second movie where is seems tacked on and rushed (much like the entirety of the prequel trilogy).

See, the problem with Darth Vader being a prisoner to the Dark Side and him knowing it bad doesn't really work all that well because it cuts free will out of the equation and makes it so the character is forced to always take the easy path (the Dark Side). If Vader knows he is serving a tyrant, why does he continue to do so when he is essentially seeing his whole worldview that a dictatorship is best (see Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith) torn apart? It works if he still believes that he is serving his side of the war (the reason he goes after Obi-Wan and the Jedi) and saving the Republic/Empire. Without it, it just becomes the same logic that allowed The Old Republic writers to say that Dark Side corruption can come from a form of mind control plague that subjects your free will (which is stupid).
 
2012-02-12 01:09:46 PM  

thamike: Mentalpatient87: Lighten up, Francis. A little sarcasm never hurt anyone. Really, stick up my ass?

Yeah, let's steal Stripes jokes. That's clever.


Curses!
 
2012-02-12 01:29:35 PM  

Tax Boy: Ishkur: This kind of genre-mashing is just so out of place. It'd be like Gandalf Legolas riding a skateboard and slam dunking a basketball at Bilbo's birthday party dwarf-tossing jokes. That's the level of disconnect here.

FTFY


That dwarf-tossing bullshiat annoyed me so much about LOTR. That was an issue (and maybe even an urban legend) in the mid-80's and somehow it's supposed to be funny in a 2005 movie about Middle Earth?

Really, really stupid. But like the movies otherwise.
 
2012-02-12 01:34:10 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Come on, seriously... you literally promise us foreshadowing and we don't get a single hint of suppressed anger in the kid? Not some element of jealousy or controlling nature? Nothing?


Good point. The thing that bugs me is that in the PT Anakin is essentially TRICKED into falling to the dark side. If you're going to tell this story then skip the Anakin as a kid thing all together but then make it a CHOICE by the adult Anikin to fall to evil. That makes the later choice to turn from evil all the more poignant. Yes, this wouldn't be a kid's story but the story you chose to tell doesn't adapt well for children.
 
2012-02-12 01:37:33 PM  
Another problem with TPM is that it keeps losing focus.

This is easily the most important rule of filmmaking: All movies must convey a single mood or tone, and it must stay true to this tone throughout. You can't shift gears halfway through and make your silly slapstick movie suddenly a Hitchcockian suspense thriller.

This is part of what makes the Transformers franchise so awful: It can't decide if its a comedy, a romantic fable, an action adventure or a war epic. These are four entirely different tones that do not mix well together. You can not have giant alien robots pooping, peeing, farting, humping, wandering about absent-mindedly with ridiculous earth accents, smacking each other like the Three Stooges in one scene, and then suddenly have them hunker down and behave like serious, hardened soldiers of war in a big battle five minutes later. Aside from the fact that this is a betrayal of their characters, the movies are so completely unfocused as to how they want you to feel. Moreover, Michael Bay doesn't give you the time and space to let these emotions well up inside so you can connect with the characters better, before the plot whisks them away to make them do some other dumb thing out of character. It is important that, if you're going to put serious, somber political intrigue and squabbling diplomatic disputes and other legal dialogue in your movie, don't put it right beside a CGI dewback farting on a farking gungan.

Focus is an establishment of mood. You want the audience to be in a certain state of mind to appreciate your film correctly. Stanley Kubrick was a master of this. A lot of his films had very long, drawn out single shot scenes several minutes long where nothing happens or characters fill it with mind-numbing protocol. The purpose is to lull the audience into a certain state of mind before he nails them later on (and this is not something that can happen instantly...it takes several seconds/minutes of buildup).

If the audience is not given the time to feel and reflect on something, it does not hold very much importance with them and is easily forgotten and dismissed. This is why no one cares when Qui Gon dies in The Phantom Menace: We aren't given the time to. A few seconds of last words, and then we are pulled in a different direction where three other plots are occurring simultaneously, none of them as heavy-handed as Qui Gon's death, and two of them are goofy slapstick.

TPM can't decide what it wants to be. It's a kids movie..... where a great deal of dialogue is political jargon. Even the opening crawl is boring, being about trade disputes and diplomatic negotiations and other nonsense. What is this, Star Trek?

I'm sure Red Letter Media has complained about this.
 
2012-02-12 01:57:16 PM  

Daquin: If Vader knows he is serving a tyrant, why does he continue to do so when he is essentially seeing his whole worldview that a dictatorship is best (see Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith) torn apart? It works if he still believes that he is serving his side of the war (the reason he goes after Obi-Wan and the Jedi) and saving the Republic/Empire.


This brings up another problem with the prequel trilogy, which is that people that a large fraction of the audience is likely to believe that Anakin is on the right side. In TVTropes terms, the strawman has a hell of a point.

-- The Jedi are violent sociopaths that brainwash children from a young age. If the scene showing them literally training child soldiers doesn't send a chill up your back your unfortunate implications meter is severely out of whack.

-- Palpatine achieves power by winning an election, winning an appointment to chancellorship by another election, and then being granted emergency powers through entirely legal means. When the Jedi council decides that they want power instead, they bust into the elected chancellor's room waving weapons and try to murder him.

-- The Sith solution to nightmares about your spouse dying in childbirth? Hey, we've got loads of ancient medical knowledge, maybe if we go over it we'll find something to help. The Jedi solution? Let her die, it's not our place to interfere with fate. Yeah, that's rich, coming from people that use artificial means to arm themselves with goddamned laser swords. Gotta keep to the natural way, eh?

-- Sith apprentices killed by their master's betrayal in all six movies: zero. Sith apprentices killed without thought by Jedi who by any reasonable standard should have attempted to capture them instead to gain information if nothing else: 3.

-- Oh, no, a droid army is invading! Palpatine: this deserves consideration, I'll convene the council and we can vote after some discussion. The Jedi Council: Charge up your laser swords, boys, I bet if we behead enough of the non-droids we can wrap this up before that pansy "democracy" can even open discussion.

Basically, if you get to the "execute order 66" bit of the movie and a good third of the audience is thinking "well, that seems like a reasonable contingency plan and a rational time to execute it" instead of "oh, no!" then you needed to think your political allegory through a little better. Or, you know, not dedicated the entire second movie to a ham-fisted political allegory that makes the audience start thinking about it in the first place, either one.
 
2012-02-12 02:01:25 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Sith apprentices killed by their master's betrayal in all six movies: zero


images.wikia.com

Count Dookoo says hello "Why did you give me such a stupid name, George Lucas?"
 
2012-02-12 02:08:57 PM  
Is the scene Best is talking about where Jar-Jar talks about how he really does have a secret girlfriend living in Canada? She loves him a lot and does all kinds of freaky stuff in bed but she doesn't like him to talk about her.
 
2012-02-12 02:09:02 PM  

Tax Boy: Jim_Callahan: Sith apprentices killed by their master's betrayal in all six movies: zero

[images.wikia.com image 389x524]

Count Dookoo says hello "Why did you give me such a stupid name, George Lucas?"


Point, I guess Palpatine did throw him under a bus even though the Jedi did the actual murderin'.

Call it 2.5 mindless Jedi murder to 0.5 deadly Sith corruption, then.

Still a bad move to play the "dangers of corruption in a democracy" card when your heroic alternative is a theocratic militaristic faction that considers skill at chopping people up with a sword to be one of the primary considerations in choosing their leaders, has no qualms about working with autocrats and slavers, and attempts a bloody coup the moment they suspect that a member of the secular government subscribes to a different religion (instead of, y'know, presenting their evidence of conspiracy to the senate).
 
2012-02-12 02:29:42 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Of course, the writing failure for little Anakin was kind of compounded by the acting failure for adult Anakin. Christiansen's decision to spit out every line like he was already a chaotic evil blood knight from his first minute on screen (when, you'll recall, he's a well-regarded padawan who is liked by everyone around him according to his told character) instead of at least trying to seem like a nice guy made the transition jarring and out of character even more than the bad writing.


I think this is the biggest flaw in the whole trilogy. Yes, more than Jar Jar and Jake Lloyd.

In ANH, Obi-Wan presents Anakin to Luke like he was truly a good man. And the first time we see him grown up, he's being a whiny biatch, disrespecting Obi-Wan in front of important people, and generally not embodying any of the qualities of a Jedi. And yet somehow they talk about him like he's doing good, noble things we never see. And from there, he only gets worse throughout the rest of the trilogy.

Also, the first few times he meets Padme as an adult, he's a total unabashed creepster, to the point where she justifiably says, "get out of my room, you're making me uncomfortable." She seems to be responding like a sensible young woman to a guy who up till now has only been an asshole and a stalker in her presence, and then when he keeps trying to molest her after all the times she's told him no, suddenly she's OK with it. Again, we never see him do anything that explains why anybody likes this guy.
 
2012-02-12 02:33:50 PM  
Every year at San Diego Comic Con, every major toy manufacturer does an exclusive just for the con (and a limited number of online sales). This year is a "Lost Line" type thing, with one figure from each film in special packaging made to look as it Kenner was still making them. There's a bonus figure that you can only get in this set, however, and it was revealed yesterday:

toyfair2012.figures.com

This made it a must buy for me.

/Hot like carbonite isn't.
 
2012-02-12 02:52:03 PM  
Carbonite is insufficient because Jar Jar isn't dismembered.
 
2012-02-12 03:15:49 PM  
When I first saw the artwork for Jar Jar Bink, there was no name on it and he looked quite solemn and sad. Mournful even. Then he turned out to be a slapstick nitwit with a daft name. Too bad, it was an interesting creature design with those ears and eyes.
 
2012-02-12 03:47:27 PM  

SwissArmyGnome: I have said this before. Jar Jar Binks is not the worst thing in the prequels. He's not even the worst thing in that first movie. Let that sink in.

He was better acted, less irritating, and had more to do with the story than that damned Anakin kid, for one thing.


thisthisthis! A thousand times this!

I just can't bother with this 3D release. There's no way I'm going to sit through that annoying little block of wood's performance ever again.
 
2012-02-12 03:50:24 PM  

Max Awesome: There's no way I'm going to sit through that annoying little block of wood's performance ever again.


Yippee!
 
2012-02-12 04:45:45 PM  

Sim Tree: Someone on fark once made the comment: since jar jar put palpatine in power, does that mean the whole thing is his fault?


I keep saying there shoukd be a scene in rots that resembles michaels ending in godfather 3
 
2012-02-12 06:05:59 PM  

Tax Boy: Jim_Callahan: Sith apprentices killed by their master's betrayal in all six movies: zero

[images.wikia.com image 389x524]

Count Dookoo says hello "Why did you give me such a stupid name, George Lucas?"


Because it was better than the original name.

/Count Shiat-turd
 
2012-02-12 06:09:51 PM  
fc00.deviantart.net
 
2012-02-12 07:32:52 PM  
Ishkur: Another problem with TPM is that it keeps losing focus.

This is easily the most important rule of filmmaking: All movies must convey a single mood or tone, and it must stay true to this tone throughout. You can't shift gears halfway through and make your silly slapstick movie suddenly a Hitchcockian suspense thriller.

This is part of what makes the Transformers franchise so awful: It can't decide if its a comedy, a romantic fable, an action adventure or a war epic. These are four entirely different tones that do not mix well together. You can not have giant alien robots pooping, peeing, farting, humping, wandering about absent-mindedly with ridiculous earth accents, smacking each other like the Three Stooges in one scene, and then suddenly have them hunker down and behave like serious, hardened soldiers of war in a big battle five minutes later. Aside from the fact that this is a betrayal of their characters, the movies are so completely unfocused as to how they want you to feel. Moreover, Michael Bay doesn't give you the time and space to let these emotions well up inside so you can connect with the characters better, before the plot whisks them away to make them do some other dumb thing out of character. It is important that, if you're going to put serious, somber political intrigue and squabbling diplomatic disputes and other legal dialogue in your movie, don't put it right beside a CGI dewback farting on a farking gungan.

Focus is an establishment of mood. You want the audience to be in a certain state of mind to appreciate your film correctly. Stanley Kubrick was a master of this. A lot of his films had very long, drawn out single shot scenes several minutes long where nothing happens or characters fill it with mind-numbing protocol. The purpose is to lull the audience into a certain state of mind before he nails them later on (and this is not something that can happen instantly...it takes several seconds/minutes of buildup).

If the audience is not given th ...


I love the special feature bit where it's essentially the first screening of TPM before some big editing decisions need to be made. Lucus has got a child smile on his face, yet everyone else in the special feature looks bordering on unabridged terror. You can see it in their eyes they know it absolutely stinks, but no one will speak up to king George who simply thinks it perfect.

It's amusing as hell. The editors, producers and everyone else in that room was pissing their pants.

Lucky for them SW can make millions on brand alone. Honestly, it should have been a Medellín moment.
 
2012-02-12 08:12:11 PM  

TyrantII: I love the special feature bit where it's essentially the first screening of TPM before some big editing decisions need to be made. Lucus has got a child smile on his face, yet everyone else in the special feature looks bordering on unabridged terror. You can see it in their eyes they know it absolutely stinks, but no one will speak up to king George who simply thinks it perfect.

It's amusing as hell. The editors, producers and everyone else in that room was pissing their pants.


My favorite moment on the special features is when Lucas is doing the auditions for Anakin.

They show several boys, each of whom is ok and a halfway-decent child actor.

Then they get to Jake Lloyd, who gives a flat, emotionless line reading with no charisma whatsoever. It's terrible, like when junior-high school kids read shakespeare in class and they don't understand the words.

Then suddenly George Lucas stands up and yells "We've found our Anakin!"
 
2012-02-12 08:29:45 PM  
So another cliche from Lucus,
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions..."


/makes sense
 
2012-02-12 08:36:13 PM  

Derwood: Best thinks that ANOTHER scene where characters walk down a hallway talking politics would have made the movies BETTER?

The political nonsense is what made the movies so dreadfully boring to begin with


To be fair he didn't say it would have made the movies better. He said it would've made better sense of his character.
 
2012-02-12 09:15:19 PM  

Tax Boy: TyrantII: I love the special feature bit where it's essentially the first screening of TPM before some big editing decisions need to be made. Lucus has got a child smile on his face, yet everyone else in the special feature looks bordering on unabridged terror. You can see it in their eyes they know it absolutely stinks, but no one will speak up to king George who simply thinks it perfect.

It's amusing as hell. The editors, producers and everyone else in that room was pissing their pants.

My favorite moment on the special features is when Lucas is doing the auditions for Anakin.

They show several boys, each of whom is ok and a halfway-decent child actor.

Then they get to Jake Lloyd, who gives a flat, emotionless line reading with no charisma whatsoever. It's terrible, like when junior-high school kids read shakespeare in class and they don't understand the words.

Then suddenly George Lucas stands up and yells "We've found our Anakin!"


Obviously he's trying to sabotage his own movies. He's being held hostage by evil duck aliens.
 
2012-02-12 09:28:55 PM  
TyrantII:
I love the special feature bit where it's essentially the first screening of TPM before some big editing decisions need to be made. Lucus has got a child smile on his face, yet everyone else in the special feature looks bordering on unabridged terror. You can see it in their eyes they know it absolutely stinks, but no one will speak up to king George who simply thinks it perfect.

It's amusing as hell. The editors, producers and everyone else in that room was pissing their pants.

Lucky for them SW can make millions on brand alone. Honestly, it should have been a Medellín moment.


That is what saved Star Wars in the first place. There were others to tell George Lucas that what he was trying to release was horrible and they were able to get outside people to re-edit the movie and managed to scrap something together worth watching. The release of the scenes they cut that were in the movie were truly awful. Then they managed to get a decent director and producer for the second and third movie.

No one had the guts to tell George Lucas he was off his rocker. I guess they didn't want to be fired rather than have artistic integrity. George Lucas is best at releasing first drafts that can be rewritten, special effects and general ideas, but needs keeping on a lease.

He done a a couple of good films when he didn't have the budget to blow like THX-1138 where he had to rely more on acting and writing to put across the point. However, in Star Wars he purposely had some of the most talented actors in the world act intentionally wooden, and then fed them awful dialogue and relied on special effects to make up for bad writing.
 
2012-02-12 09:30:41 PM  

Tax Boy: TyrantII: I love the special feature bit where it's essentially the first screening of TPM before some big editing decisions need to be made. Lucus has got a child smile on his face, yet everyone else in the special feature looks bordering on unabridged terror. You can see it in their eyes they know it absolutely stinks, but no one will speak up to king George who simply thinks it perfect.

It's amusing as hell. The editors, producers and everyone else in that room was pissing their pants.



That's one of my favorite parts of the Plinkett reviews, if only for the moment where it is so clear exactly how bad it is, that Lucas actually apologizes for the end of the movie. Well, as close as we're ever going to get.
 
2012-02-12 11:14:19 PM  
I always envisioned a scene in Revenge of the Sith, to showcase Anakin's descent towards the dark side, where we see Anakin sitting at a table eating. Obi Wan walks in and asks,
"Anakin, what are you eating?"

After a pause, Anakin replies, deadpan,

"Jar Jar."

Anakin takes another bite as Obi Wan looks on, horrified.
 
2012-02-13 12:06:54 AM  

FunkOut: When I first saw the artwork for Jar Jar Bink, there was no name on it and he looked quite solemn and sad. Mournful even. Then he turned out to be a slapstick nitwit with a daft name. Too bad, it was an interesting creature design with those ears and eyes.


alldisneycharacters.com

Yeah who ever could have suspected.
 
2012-02-13 12:16:10 AM  

FunkOut: Obviously he's trying to sabotage his own movies. He's being held hostage by evil duck aliens.


images.wikia.com
"I told you to stop doing that."
 
2012-02-13 12:25:23 AM  

Mentalpatient87: Coelacanth: If you fancy yourself to be a bit of a libertarian or a pirate, this is your book.

Can I get one for people who don't care for silly ideological labels?


Ignore the ideological labels, it's a interesting concept on its own. A technologically advanced group of planets raiding the fallen remnants of a galaxy-spanning civilization is pretty cool to read about.
 
2012-02-13 12:41:36 AM  
The 3-d animated show had the right take on Jar-Jar: he represents chaotic good: He's like the "drunken master" martial arts guy: a tool of the Force that doesn't consciously control his powers, but thru fandom chance, every "accident" he creates has an overall positive, though unanticipated result.

THIS would make Jar-Jar the awesome character the kiddies would like to collect: Kids are clumsy in adolescence, they break things, they make rash decisions that are incompletely panned-out, but in their minds their intent is positive. Jar-Jar as chaotic good Jedi by Accident says to them: we know your intentions are good, you're just immature and clumsy, but some day you'll grow out of that."


As far as Annakin, I think a lot of this was made worse by hand-fisted and wrong edits Lucas made. He spent too much screen time on the spectacles and not enough on proper character development and motivation. He shot but threw away scenes of Padme sitting in on the creation of what will be the Rebel Alliance. Had he left that in, and let Annakin discover his wife and master teacher were in on a conspiracy that he had been risking his life to fight, Discovering his religion and his woman are all (in his eyes) lies and deceit, fueled by prompts from the Emperor, THAT makes for proper farking motivation for turning into VADER. It's the most classic conflict in human history: Love vs. Fear. Trust vs. suspicion.
 
2012-02-13 12:45:55 AM  

NEDM: Mentalpatient87: Coelacanth: If you fancy yourself to be a bit of a libertarian or a pirate, this is your book.

Can I get one for people who don't care for silly ideological labels?

Ignore the ideological labels, it's a interesting concept on its own. A technologically advanced group of planets raiding the fallen remnants of a galaxy-spanning civilization is pretty cool to read about.


Heh, I'll look it up. I was just ribbing Coelacanth for the politics plug, instead of recommending a book because it's a good book..
 
2012-02-13 02:33:18 AM  

Mentalpatient87: Heh, I'll look it up. I was just ribbing Coelacanth for the politics plug, instead of recommending a book because it's a good book..


I was making a joke off the title of the book.
 
2012-02-13 09:29:53 AM  

limeyfellow: That is what saved Star Wars in the first place. There were others to tell George Lucas that what he was trying to release was horrible and they were able to get outside people to re-edit the movie and managed to scrap something together worth watching. The release of the scenes they cut that were in the movie were truly awful. Then they managed to get a decent director and producer for the second and third movie.


There's an interesting article about how Marcia Lucas (new window), his first wife, basically saved Star Wars and got an editing Oscar, the only Oscar Star Wars received.

Of course, the Star Wars Holiday Special was her idea, too, but then everyone was probably on cocaine by that time.
 
2012-02-13 01:22:08 PM  

2wolves: Seppuku?


Damn you. Stole my idea. But I will raise you, "seppuku with a lightsaber."
 
2012-02-13 02:09:53 PM  
The Jedi Counsel doesn't want to train Anakin because he's TOO OLD.

That's it.

There's no "he's creepy" or "there's something not right about that kid." to it. He was just TOO OLD and the Jedi Counsel's rules were very strict: You don't train someone who is too old because they have attachments, and that leads to fear, which leads to anger, which leads to the Dark Side.

And it was in their rules. They were up to their necks in tradition and red tape. They couldn't accept something that would break "the rules"-- It was unfathomable to them.

THAT IS WHY THEY DIED. They couldn't get their heads out of their asses and feel the "living" Force, as Qui-Gon begged them to.

Again, the story is about how the wars and the Dark Side corrupted society and brought it down, so that a new, fresh start could happen.

Bringing balance to the Force meant getting rid of the old Jedi Order, and all its ridiculous bureaucratic rules, too.
 
2012-02-13 06:03:14 PM  
I hope you don't have to go through that much bureaucratic red tape to get that nerdgasm cleaned up.
 
2012-02-14 12:15:41 AM  
GoldSpider

That's one of many problems. Anakin in Clones doesnt even vaguely resemble Anakin from TPM. His impatience and brooding angst are never adequately explained.

I can believe a good kid growing up into a brooding youth, it happens often enough. Though it would have been nice to throw in some connection, like his saying "I'm still a slave" in reaction to some piece of Jedi code or Obi-wan mastering.

What I can't stand is the whole "I sense in him much fear" line - the child Anakin doesn't display any fear - he leaves his home, mother, and planet and goes off with a bunch of strangers with regret but no fear. He engages in highly dangerous race with no fear. And despite Yoda's caution, his fall into the dark side is not due to fear, but possessiveness.
 
2012-02-14 06:52:59 AM  

grotto_man: GoldSpider

That's one of many problems. Anakin in Clones doesnt even vaguely resemble Anakin from TPM. His impatience and brooding angst are never adequately explained.

I can believe a good kid growing up into a brooding youth, it happens often enough. Though it would have been nice to throw in some connection, like his saying "I'm still a slave" in reaction to some piece of Jedi code or Obi-wan mastering.

What I can't stand is the whole "I sense in him much fear" line - the child Anakin doesn't display any fear - he leaves his home, mother, and planet and goes off with a bunch of strangers with regret but no fear. He engages in highly dangerous race with no fear. And despite Yoda's caution, his fall into the dark side is not due to fear, but possessiveness.


1.bp.blogspot.com


That's because the only formal writing class Lucas ever attended was taught by Kitty Farmer.
 
2012-02-14 09:28:47 AM  
The prequils strayed too far from the oringal movies in Lucas' attempt to fill in his plot holes. Only he made them larger.

Ancient hokey religion - a religion just doesn't become 'ancient' in 40 years.
Darth Vader being Luke's father - come on, that's just some serious bad writing there.
Oh wait, now you're brother and sister and we'll never mention that kiss again - I hate you Lucas, I really do.
 
2012-02-14 06:16:20 PM  

Mearen: The prequils strayed too far from the oringal movies in Lucas' attempt to fill in his plot holesMERCHANDISE. Only he made them larger.



Then again, merchandising's the only reason Han survived.
 
2012-02-14 10:37:12 PM  

whenIsayGO: In ANH, Obi-Wan presents Anakin to Luke like he was truly a good man. And the first time we see him grown up, he's being a whiny biatch, disrespecting Obi-Wan in front of important people, and generally not embodying any of the qualities of a Jedi. And yet somehow they talk about him like he's doing good, noble things we never see. And from there, he only gets worse throughout the rest of the trilogy.


Old Ben must have been fondly remembering something from the ten off-screen years between TPM and AOTC (during which, notably, Anakin and Padme had no contact), or from the Clone Wars years. It's really interesting how all the voice actors in the Clone Wars animated series try to sound consistent with their characters' actors from the films except for Anakin who is doing a completely different take on the character as a charming, confident hero.
 
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