One builder, Murray Moore, has been building for nearly 40 years, but from March 1 he will need to be licensed to stay in business.

If it is DIY, it is not a business. If it is a business, it is not DIY...stoopid kiwis...

Under the Department of Building and Housing scheme, trades people must be licensed to do any design or construction work which affects whether a house or apartment is structural sound or weather tight.

... I'm okay with this.

But do you need a licence in NZ to be an interior designer?

They'll love when they have to join the lawnmowers guild.

Theaetetus: Under the Department of Building and Housing scheme, trades people must be licensed to do any design or construction work which affects whether a house or apartment is structural sound or weather tight.

... I'm okay with this.

As am I, but how is a "trades person" in any way a DIYer, unless he's working on his own property?

"Cowboy" (FTA) better describes it.

/also known as "trunk-slammer"...

Well that pretty much eliminates the savings you get from simply taping a camera to your old cell phone.

Property law is so farking weird. The primary reason such laws exist anywhere is to discourage shoddy work done to houses that aren't intended to be lived in by the current owner/decision maker. However, there exists many people who don't trust homeowners with their own homes, under the assumption that the ownership is temporary. So I replace some plumbing in my house, sell it after 5 years (or whatever) and then the plumbing fails, screwing the new owners.

This is bullshiat. The permitting process in the US is primarily a jobs program for contractors who want government sponsored monopoly power over the home maintenance and upgrade business. But it's all about "safety" and "consumer protection" and that makes it ok.

It really doesn't take any advanced education to replace PVC plumbing or do minor electrical work, up to and including replacing breakers and running new wires. The calculations are quite simple; anyone with a high school education can do this work.

Anyone prepared to scream about excessive regulation should first read up on the leaky home crisis caused by deregulation, and now costing the taxpayers in this country billions of dollars, while the companies responsible took the money and ran. A country with four million people lumped with a twenty billion dollar bill.

I know, it's shocking that idealism-based deregulation enacted by a right-wing government failed.

Yet they let you build decks willy nilly. Which is fine until it crashes when you have a party on it.

It sounds like this legislation was poorly constructed and might tip over in the strong winds of a court room.

Okay, that aside... I would suggest they get a permit and inspection process rather than this licensure process. Permit and inspection should provide a consistent quality control that could catch more errors than handing out licenses and catching shoddy work years later.

Phil McKraken: Property law is so farking weird. The primary reason such laws exist anywhere is to discourage shoddy work done to houses that aren't intended to be lived in by the current owner/decision maker. However, there exists many people who don't trust homeowners with their own homes, under the assumption that the ownership is temporary. So I replace some plumbing in my house, sell it after 5 years (or whatever) and then the plumbing fails, screwing the new owners.

This is bullshiat. The permitting process in the US is primarily a jobs program for contractors who want government sponsored monopoly power over the home maintenance and upgrade business. But it's all about "safety" and "consumer protection" and that makes it ok.

It really doesn't take any advanced education to replace PVC plumbing or do minor electrical work, up to and including replacing breakers and running new wires. The calculations are quite simple; anyone with a high school education can do this work.

guess how I know you have never earned a dime in the building trades...

/20 year tin knocker

one of Ripley's Bad Guys: Phil McKraken: Property law is so farking weird. The primary reason such laws exist anywhere is to discourage shoddy work done to houses that aren't intended to be lived in by the current owner/decision maker. However, there exists many people who don't trust homeowners with their own homes, under the assumption that the ownership is temporary. So I replace some plumbing in my house, sell it after 5 years (or whatever) and then the plumbing fails, screwing the new owners.

This is bullshiat. The permitting process in the US is primarily a jobs program for contractors who want government sponsored monopoly power over the home maintenance and upgrade business. But it's all about "safety" and "consumer protection" and that makes it ok.

It really doesn't take any advanced education to replace PVC plumbing or do minor electrical work, up to and including replacing breakers and running new wires. The calculations are quite simple; anyone with a high school education can do this work.

guess how I know you have never earned a dime in the building trades...

/20 year tin knocker

He's right, it doesn't take an advanced education to do it. It really isn't that hard to do it right. What is hard is to do it right quickly. I don't know all of the tips and tricks of the trade. So when I do a task it takes me far longer than it would a tradesman. However, I *do* do it right. I read the appropriate sections of the IBC and my municipilities modifications and understand what the intent behind the code is. When I was doing electrical work in my home and ran across 15A outlets on 20A circuits I made sure I knew under what circumstances it's allowed and why before completing the work. Likewise with my sprinkler system. I'm looking to replace it and deciding between designing and installing myself or contracting it out. But so far I know what kind of backflow prevention is required, I know what pipe sizing, flow rates, and pressures are allowed and why. Nothing I've run across so far requires more than I learned in high school.

Yes, tradesman have a body of knowledge built up that I don't. But the what and why is captured in books and other sources that I can learn from. Learning is easy.

What isn't easily captured or easily learned is how to be most efficient performing the task. That's the true value of a tradesman and why I'm sometimes willing to pay someone else to do the work. Because what would take me all weekend, an experienced tradesman can do in a far shorter time.

Mike Holmes would probably be okay with this, also. His shows have basically scared me from hiring a contractor to do anything where I'm not present to supervise 100% of the time.

arcas: Mike Holmes would probably be okay with this, also. His shows have basically scared me from hiring a contractor to do anything where I'm not present to supervise 100% of the time.

This

Khanmots: It really isn't that hard to do it right. What is hard is to do it right quickly.

That's where the money's at.

DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: One builder, Murray Moore, has been building for nearly 40 years, but from March 1 he will need to be licensed to stay in business.

If it is DIY, it is not a business. If it is a business, it is not DIY...stoopid kiwis...

I'm with this sentiment.

assuming DIY means something completely different in a country where professionals weren't licensed (as it seems is/was the case in NZ)

/won't tackle anything myself that may cause the house to fall down, burn down, or blow up. I'd like someone to sue if that happens.

wildcardjack: It sounds like this legislation was poorly constructed and might tip over in the strong winds of a court room.

Okay, that aside... I would suggest they get a permit and inspection process rather than this licensure process. Permit and inspection should provide a consistent quality control that could catch more errors than handing out licenses and catching shoddy work years later.

Yeah, that would make much more sense, but then they have to actually do something useful. Inspections cost money and require competent workers. Licenses are slips of paper that are free money for the government. Guess which wins.