I give women a massive piece of chocolate every weekend.
/If I'm lucky.

GLOBAL WARMING THREAD!

If climate change really happens, then we'll start growing cocoa, coffee, and sugar cane in someplace like Arkansas. Because those things are really important to civilization.

Here's a list of the most used myths regarding climate change and what the science actually says (with handy links to the primary literature). Let's see how many debunked myths the derp brigade will trot out this time.

Science! (new window)

Eh, chocolate is harvested by child slaves. There are worse things than some entitled first world biatch not getting her public display of bon bons for one day.

Global Warming doesn't exist because it's slightly colder today than it was yesterday.

Wodan11: If climate change really happens, then we'll start growing cocoa, coffee, and sugar cane in someplace like Arkansas. Because those things are really important to civilization.

Yes and no. I'm sure there will be plenty of adaption to new suitable growing areas, but it won't be simple or quick to move entire industries. Additionally, there are more factors than temperature to consider. For example, Canada and Siberia will benefit some from warmer weather, but that doesn't mean the (formally permafrost'd) soil there would be suitable for large scale agriculture.

Racist bastards, where all the white chocolate at?

Yeah that'll go over well. "What? I didn't forget honey. Didn't you hear about global warming?"

Anyone else catch the news article about how glaciers in the himalayas are not shrinking instead of being gone by 2035?

Don`t buy chocolate on Valentines day, buy diamonds instead. It`s good for the environment. (j/k)

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Eh, chocolate is harvested by child slaves. There are worse things than some entitled first world biatch not getting her public display of bon bons for one day.

I must have not been up long enough. I read this as "her pubic display of bon bons"

dready zim: Anyone else catch the news article about how glaciers in the himalayas are not shrinking instead of being gone by 2035?

They are shrinking. The paper showed a smaller than previously thought rate of decrease.

Link: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature10847.ht ml (sorry, fark wouldn't let me link it)

And the "gone by 2035" was retracted years ago.

"Production could fall off dramatically by 2050, making cocoa less available and more expensive."

In other news, an asteroid could hit the earth, triggering a catastrophic event in the next 20 years.

What about that hedge fund buying a huge share of cocoa on the market and then taking delivery of it?

Cocoa's been manipulated quite a few ways the last several years, the "market price" is anything but.

Baryogenesis: I'm sure there will be plenty of adaption to new suitable growing areas

We're done here, then? ;-)

but it won't be simple or quick to move entire industries.

There are already quite a few coffee roasters and sugar refineries in the US, and the process to create cocoa is pretty simple. And regardless, yes, you can pick up a factory and move it. Pack up the machinery, throw up a big building or buy one already existing at the new location, and unpack the machinery.

Additionally, there are more factors than temperature to consider. For example, Canada and Siberia will benefit some from warmer weather, but that doesn't mean the (formally permafrost'd) soil there would be suitable for large scale agriculture.

Agreed, there. You might need a couple of years of planting alfalfa or clover to temper and prepare the soil. That won't be a problem in Arkansas, however.

drjekel_mrhyde: I give women a massive piece of chocolate every weekend.
/If I'm lucky.

The good doctor's name is spelled Jekyll. At least you Hyde right.

I plan on giving slabs of meat. MEEEEEEEEAT!

thelordofcheese: I plan on giving slabs of meat. MEEEEEEEEAT!

You do realise that will lead to your doom...

dready zim: thelordofcheese: I plan on giving slabs of meat. MEEEEEEEEAT!

You do realise that will lead to your doom...

She has a Nny trampstamp. I think it will lead to the bedroom.

Baryogenesis: dready zim: Anyone else catch the news article about how glaciers in the himalayas are not shrinking instead of being gone by 2035?

They are shrinking. The paper showed a smaller than previously thought rate of decrease.

Link: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature10847.ht ml (sorry, fark wouldn't let me link it)

And the "gone by 2035" was retracted years ago.

The article you linked to says about high himalayan glaciers that they are experiencing "a mass loss of only 4±20Gtyr−1" is between -16 and 24 AFAIK. Doesn`t that mean that the `high mountains of asia` (the himalayan glaciers i referenced, not the global glaciers your article talks about) might be growing at 16 Gt/yr as far as we know even with our best measurements? surely the statement "they are shrinking" is put in large amounts of doubt according to the science linked to in your article? I concede that globally glaciers are shrinking.

The yearly variation in glacier mass in the himalayas is in the hundreds of gigatonnes to put this into perspective.

As far as ""gone by 2035" was retracted years ago." this is only right and the IPCC should fact check before scaremongering. It should not have been stated publicly in the first place.

Global warming killed all the Husnock.

Karen Blixen nods knowingly.
"They told me the land was to high to grow coffee. And you know what? They were right."

Baryogenesis: dready zim: Anyone else catch the news article about how glaciers in the himalayas are not shrinking instead of being gone by 2035?

They are shrinking. The paper showed a smaller than previously thought rate of decrease.

Link: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature10847.ht ml (sorry, fark wouldn't let me link it)

And the "gone by 2035" was retracted years ago.

If by "years ago" you mean about a year ago, then yes, you are correct.

The train engineer never retracted his "voo doo science" remark, did he?

dready zim: Baryogenesis: dready zim: Anyone else catch the news article about how glaciers in the himalayas are not shrinking instead of being gone by 2035?

They are shrinking. The paper showed a smaller than previously thought rate of decrease.

Link: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature10847.ht ml (sorry, fark wouldn't let me link it)

And the "gone by 2035" was retracted years ago.

The article you linked to says about high himalayan glaciers that they are experiencing "a mass loss of only 4±20Gtyr−1" is between -16 and 24 AFAIK. Doesn`t that mean that the `high mountains of asia` (the himalayan glaciers i referenced, not the global glaciers your article talks about) might be growing at 16 Gt/yr as far as we know even with our best measurements? surely the statement "they are shrinking" is put in large amounts of doubt according to the science linked to in your article? I concede that globally glaciers are shrinking.

The yearly variation in glacier mass in the himalayas is in the hundreds of gigatonnes to put this into perspective.

As far as ""gone by 2035" was retracted years ago." this is only right and the IPCC should fact check before scaremongering. It should not have been stated publicly in the first place.

It's within the error bars, yes, but they could also be losing mass at 24GT/yr. It's best to go with 4GT/yr and see what follow up papers have to say.

stirfrybry: Baryogenesis: dready zim: Anyone else catch the news article about how glaciers in the himalayas are not shrinking instead of being gone by 2035?

They are shrinking. The paper showed a smaller than previously thought rate of decrease.

Link: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature10847.ht ml (sorry, fark wouldn't let me link it)

And the "gone by 2035" was retracted years ago.

If by "years ago" you mean about a year ago, then yes, you are correct.

The train engineer never retracted his "voo doo science" remark, did he?

I thought it was longer ago, but it appears it's been just over 2 years according to a quick google search.

Wodan11: And regardless, yes, you can pick up a factory and move it. Pack up the machinery, throw up a big building or buy one already existing at the new location, and unpack the machinery.

Of course it's *possible*, but it's not without costs which is the point.

I saw Fox News stick "An Inconvenient Truth" in a pile of snow therefore global warming doesn't exist because how can it snow if it is warm and furthermore

This list just keeps growing and growing and growing

http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm

Afghan poppies destroyed, African holocaust, aged deaths, poppies more potent, Africa devastated, Africa in conflict, African aid threatened, aggressive weeds, Air France crash, air pockets, air pressure changes, airport farewells virtual, airport malaria, Agulhas current, Alaskan towns slowly destroyed, Al Qaeda and Taliban Being Helped, allergy increase, allergy season longer, alligators in the Thames, Alps melting, Amazon a desert, American dream end, amphibians breeding earlier (or not), anaphylactic reactions to bee stings, ancient forests dramatically changed, animals head for the hills, animals shrink, Antarctic grass flourishes, Antarctic ice grows, Antarctic ice shrinks, Antarctic sea life at risk, anxiety treatment, algal blooms, archaeological sites threatened, Arctic bogs melt, Arctic in bloom, Arctic ice free, Arctic ice melt faster, Arctic lakes disappear, Arctic tundra lost, Arctic warming (not), a rose by any other name smells of nothing, asteroid strike risk, asthma, Atlantic less salty, Atlantic more salty, atmospheric circulation modified, attack of the killer jellyfish, avalanches reduced, avalanches increased, Baghdad snow, Bahrain under water, bananas grow, barbarisation, bats decline, beer and bread prices to soar, beer better, beer worse, beetle infestation, bet for $10,000, big melt faster, billion dollar research projects, billion homeless, billions face risk, billions of deaths, bird loss accelerating, bird populations dying, bird strikes, bird visitors drop, birds confused, birds decline (Wales), birds driven north, birds face longer migrations, birds on long migrations threatened, birds return early, birds shrink(Aus), birds shrink (USA), bittern boom ends, blackbirds stop singing, blackbirds threatened, Black Hawk down, blizzards, blood contaminated, blue mussels return, borders redrawn, bluetongue, brains shrink, bridge collapse (Minneapolis), Britain one big city, Britain Siberian, Britain's bananas, British monsoon, brothels struggle, brown Ireland, bubonic plague, Buddhist temple threatened, building collapse, building season extension, bushfires, butterflies move north, butterflies reeling, butterfly saved, carbon crimes, caribou decline, camel deaths, cancer, cancer deaths in England, cannibalism, cataracts, caterpillar biomass shift, cave paintings threatened, childhood insomnia, children's mental health, chocolate shortage, Cholera, circumcision in decline, cirrus disappearance, civil unrest, cloud increase, clownfish get lost, coast beauty spots lost, cockroach migration, cod go south, coffee threatened, coffee berry borer, coffee berry disease, cold climate creatures survive, cold spells, cold spells (Australia), colder waters (Long Island), cold wave (India), cold weather (world), cold winters, computer models, conferences, conflict, conflict with Russia, consumers foot the bill, coral bleaching, coral fish suffer, coral reefs dying, coral reefs grow, coral reefs shrink, coral reefs twilight, cost of trillions, cougar attacks, crabgrass menace, cradle of civilisation threatened, creatures move uphill, crime increase, crocodile sex, crocodiles driven from water, crops devastated, crop failures increase, cross-breeding, crumbling roads, buildings and sewage systems, cryptococcal disease, curriculum change, cyclones (Australia), damselflies forced back to UK, danger to kid's health, Darfur, Dartford Warbler plague, daylight increase, deadly virus outbreaks, death rate increase (US), death rate drop, deaths to reach 6 million, decades of progress at risk, Dengue hemorrhagic fever, depression, desert advance, desert retreat, destruction of the environment, dig sites threatened, disasters, diseases move north, diving reefs closed, dog disease, dozen deadly diseases - or not, drought, ducks and geese decline, dust bowl in the corn belt, dust doubles, earlier pollen season, Earth axis tilt, Earth biodiversity crisis, Earth crumbling, Earth dying, Earth even hotter, Earth light dimming, Earth lopsided, Earth melting, Earth morbid fever, Earth on fast track, Earth past point of no return, Earth slowing down, Earth spins faster, Earth to explode, earth upside down, earthquakes, earthquakes redux, El Niño intensification, end of the world as we know it, erosion, emerging infections, encephalitis, English villages lost, equality threatened, Europe simultaneously baking and freezing, eutrophication, expansion of university climate groups, extinctions (apes, human, civilisation, koalas, lizards, logic, Inuit, smallest butterfly, cod, penguins, pikas, polar bears, possums, walrus, tigers, toads, turtles, pandas, penguins, plants, ladybirds, rhinoceros, salmon, trout, wild flowers, woodlice, a million species, half of all animal and plant species, mountain species, not polar bears, barrier reef, leaches, salamanders, tropical insects, flowers) experts muzzled, extreme changes to California, fading fall foliage, famine, farmers benefit, farmers go under, farm output boost, farming soil decline, fashion disaster, fever, figurehead sacked, fir cone bonanza, fires fanned in Nepal, fish bigger, fish catches drop, fish downsize, fish deaf, fish feminised, fish get lost, fish head north, fish lopsided, fish shrinking, fish stocks at risk, fish stocks decline, five million illnesses, flesh eating disease, flies on Everest, flood patterns change, floods, floods of beaches and cities, flood of migrants, flood preparation for crisis, flora dispersed, Florida economic decline, flowers in peril, flowers wilt, flying squirrels move up, fog increase in San Francisco, fog decrease in San Francisco, food poisoning, food prices rise, food prices soar, food production increased, food safety affected, food security threat (SA), football team migration, forest decline, forest expansion, foundations threatened, foundations increase grants, frog with extra heads, frosts, frostbite, frost damage increased, fungi fruitful, fungi invasion, fungi rot the world, games change, Garden of Eden wilts, geese decline in Hampshire, genetic changes, genetic diversity decline, gene pools slashed, geysers imperiled, giant icebergs (Australia), giant icebergs (Arctic), giant oysters invade, giant pythons invade, giant squid migrate, gingerbread houses collapse, glacial earthquakes, glacial retreat, glacier grows (California), glaciers on Snowden, glacier wrapped, global cooling, glowing clouds, golf course to drown, golf Masters wrecked, grain output drop (China), grain output stagnating (India), grandstanding, grasslands wetter, gravity shift, Great Barrier Reef 95% dead, great tits cope, greening of the North, Grey whales lose weight, Gulf Stream failure, habitat loss, haggis threatened, Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome, harvest increase, harvest shrinkage, hay fever epidemic, health affected, health of children harmed, health risks, health risks (even more), heart deaths, heart disease, heart attacks and strokes (Australia), heat waves, hedgehogs bald, hibernation affected, hibernation ends too soon, hibernation ends too late, homeless 50 million, hornets, human development faces unprecedented reversal, human fertility reduced, human health risk, human race oblivion, human rights violations, hurricanes, hurricane reduction, hurricanes fewer, hurricanes more intense, hurricanes not, hydropower problems, hyperthermia deaths, hyphthermia deaths, ice age, ice sheet growth, ice sheet shrinkage, icebergs, icesheet tipping point, illegal immigration, illness and death, inclement weather, India drowning, infrastructure failure (Canada), indigestion, industry threatened, infectious diseases, inflation in China, insect explosion, insect invasion, insurance premium rises, Inuit displacement, Inuit poisoned, Inuit suing, invasion of alien worms, invasion of Antarctic aliens, invasion of Asian carp, invasion of cane toads, invasion of caterpillars, invasion of cats, invasion of crabgrass, invasion of herons, invasion of jellyfish, invasion of king crabs, invasion of lampreys, invasion of midges, invasion of pine beetles, invasion of rats (China), invasion of slugs, island disappears, islands sinking, Italy robbed of pasta, itchier poison ivy, Japan's cherry blossom threatened, jellyfish explosion, jets fall from sky, Kew Gardens taxed, kidney stones, killer cornflakes, killing us, kitten boom, koalas leaves inedible, koalas under threat, krill decline, lake empties, lake shrinking and growing, landslides, landslides of ice at 140 mph, large trees decline, lawsuits increase, lawsuit successful, lawyers' income increased (surprise surprise!), lawyers want more, legionnaires' surge, lives lost, lives saved, Loch Ness monster dead, locust plagues suppressed, lost $350 billion, low oxygen zones threaten sea life, lush growth in rain forests, Lyme disease, Major vegetation shifts, Malaria, Malaria decline, malnutrition, mammoth dung melt, mammoth ivory bonanza, mango harvest fails, Maple production advanced, Maple syrup shortage, marmots fatter, marine diseases, marine food chain decimated, Meaching (end of the world), Meat eating to stop, Mediterranean rises, megacryometeors, Melanoma, Melanoma decline, mental health decline, mental illness, methane emissions from plants, methane burps, methane runaway, melting permafrost, Mexican climate migrant flood, Middle Kingdom convulses, migration, migratory birds huge losses, microbes to decompose soil carbon more rapidly, milk production lost, minorities hit, monkeys at risk, monkeys on the move, Mont Blanc grows, monuments imperiled, moose dying, more bad air days, more research needed, mortality increased, mosquitoes adapting, mountain (Everest) shrinking, mountaineers fears, mountains break up, mountains green and flowering, mountains taller, mortality lower, Mubarak fall, murder rate increase, musk ox decline, Myanmar cyclone, narwhals at risk, narwhals suffocate, National Parks damaged, National security implications, native wildlife overwhelmed, natural disasters quadruple, neurological diseases, new islands, next ice age, NFL threatened, Nile delta damaged, noctilucent clouds, no effect in India, Northwest Passage opened, nuclear plants bloom, oaks dying, oaks move north, oblivion, ocean acidification, ocean acidification faster, ocean dead spots, ocean dead zones unleashed, ocean deserts expand, ocean salt extremes, ocean oxygen crisis, ocean waves speed up, Olympic Games to end, opera house to be destroyed, outdoor hockey threatened, owls turn brown, oxygen depletion zones, oyster herpes, ozone repair slowed, ozone rise, penguin chicks frozen, penguin chicks smaller, penguins in the dark, penguin populations devastated, penguins replaced by jellyfish, personal carbon rationing, pest outbreaks, pests increase, pets in danger, phenology shifts, pines decline, pirate population decrease, pirates run rampant, plankton blooms, plankton plummeting, plankton wiped out, plants lose protein, plants march north, plants move uphill, polar bears aggressive, polar bears cannibalistic, polar bears deaf, polar bears drowning, polar bears fewer cubs, polar tours scrapped, pollination halved, porpoise astray, profits collapse, psychiatric illness, puffin decline, pushes poor women into prostitution, rabid bats, radars taken out, rail network threatened, railroad tracks deformed, rainfall increase, rainforest destruction, rape wave, refugees, reindeer endangered, reindeer larger, release of ancient frozen viruses, resorts disappear, rice less fragrant, rice production fall, rice threatened, rice yields crash, rift on Capitol Hill, rioting and nuclear war, river flow impacted, river rerouted, rivers raised, road accidents, roads wear out, robins rampant, rocky peaks crack apart, roof of the world a desert, rooftop bars, Ross river disease, ruins ruined, Russia under pressure, salinity reduction, salinity increase, Salmonella, salmon stronger, sardine run unpredictable, satellites accelerate, school closures, sea level rise, sea level rise faster, sea snot, seals mating more, seismic activity, sewer bills rise, severe thunderstorms, sex change, sexual dysfunction, sexual promiscuity, shark attacks, sharks booming, sharks moving north, sheep change colour, sheep shrink, shop closures, short-nosed dogs endangered, shrimp sex problems, shrinking ponds, shrinking sheep, shrinking shrine, Sidney Opera House wiped out, ski resorts threatened, slavery, skinks impacted, slow death, smaller brains, smog, snowfall decrease, snowfall increase, snowfall heavy, snow thicker, soaring food prices, societal collapse, soil change, soil subsidence, songbirds change eating habits, sour grapes, soybean crop to drop, space junk increase, space problem, spectacular orchids, spider danger in UK, spider bites to increase, spiders getting bigger, spiders invade Scotland, squid aggressive giants, squid larger, squid population explosion, squid tamed, squirrels reproduce earlier, starfish sperm eaten by parasites, stingray invasion, storm damage costs rise, storms wetter, stratospheric cooling, street crime to increase, subsidence, suicide, sunset displaced, swordfish in the Baltic, Tabasco tragedy, taxes, tea flavour change, tectonic plate movement, teenage prostitution, terrorists (India), thatched cottages at risk, threat to peace, ticks move northward (Sweden), tides rise, tigers eat people, tigers drown, tomatoes rot, tornado outbreak, tourism increase, toxic bacteria, toxic seaweed, trade barriers, trade winds weakened, traffic jams, transport snarl, transportation threatened, tree foliage increase (UK), tree growth slowed, tree growth faster, trees grow too fast, trees in trouble, trees less colourful, trees more colourful, trees lush, trees on Antarctica, treelines change, tropics expansion, tropopause raised, truffle shortage, truffles down, truffles increase, turtles crash, turtle feminised, turtles lay earlier, UFO sightings, UK coastal impact, UK Katrina, Venice flooded, volcanic eruptions, volcanoes awakened in Iceland, walrus pups orphaned, walrus stampede, walruses come ashore, wars over water, wars sparked, wars threaten billions, wasps, water bills double, water shortage to increase vegetarianism, wave of natural disasters, waves bigger, weather out of its mind, weather patterns awry, weather patterns last longer, Western aid cancelled out, West Nile fever, whale beachings, whales lose weight, whales move north, whales wiped out, wheat rust in Syria, wheat yields crushed in Australia, wild boars thrive, wildfires, wind shift, wind reduced, winds stronger, winds weaker, wine - Australian baked, wine - harm to Australian industry, wine industry damage (California), wine industry disaster (US), wine - more English, wine - England too hot, wine -German boon, wine - no more French , wine passé (Napa), wine - Scotland best, wine stronger, winters in Britain colder, winter in Britain dead, witchcraft executions, wolverine decline, wolverines vanish, wolves eat more moose, wolves eat less, women cheat on vacation, workers laid off, World at war, World War 4, World bankruptcy, World-famous places threatened, World in crisis, World in flames, Yellow fever, zebra mussel threat, zoonotic diseases.

Acne, Africa hit hardest, African summer frost, agricultural land increase, Alaska reshaped, allergies increase, anxiety, Arctic tundra to burn, atmospheric defiance, bananas destroyed, beer shortage, bird distributions change, blizzards, boredom, brain eating amoebae, business opportunities, business risks, British gardens change, budget increases, cardiac arrest, cataracts, challenges and opportunities, cloud stripping, cremation to end, damages equivalent to $200 billion, dermatitis, desert life threatened, diarrhoea, disappearance of coastal cities, Dolomites collapse, drought in distant regions, drowning people, early marriages, early spring, Earth spinning out of control, Earth wobbling, evolution accelerating, extinctions (bats, pigmy possums, koalas, turtles, orang-utan, elephants, tigers, gorillas, whales, frogs,) fainting, fish catches rise, flames stoked, footpath erosion, glacial growth, global dimming, god melts, Gore omnipresence, Great Lakes drop, harmful algae, hazardous waste sites breached, high court debates, HIV epidemic, human health improvement, ice shelf collapse, jet stream drifts north, lake and stream productivity decline, lightning related insurance claims, little response in the atmosphere, Lyme disease, marine dead zone, Maple production advanced, mental illness (Alberta), migration difficult (birds), mountains melting, mudslides, oceans noisier, oyster diseases, ozone loss, Pacific dead zone, plankton destabilised, plankton loss, plant viruses, polar bears starve, psychosocial disturbances, popcorn rise, rainfall reduction, riches, rivers dry up, rockfalls, skin cancer, smelt down, snowfall reduction, stick insects, stormwater drains stressed, teenage drinking, terrorism, tree beetle attacks, trees could return to Antarctic, tree growth increased, tsunamis, tundra plant life boost, uprooted - 6 million, Vampire moths, violin decline, walrus displaced, war, war between US and Canada, water scarcity (20% of increase), water stress, water supply unreliability, weeds, white Christmas dream ends.

and all on 0.006 deg C per year!

Baryogenesis: Wodan11: If climate change really happens, then we'll start growing cocoa, coffee, and sugar cane in someplace like Arkansas. Because those things are really important to civilization.

Yes and no. I'm sure there will be plenty of adaption to new suitable growing areas, but it won't be simple or quick to move entire industries. Additionally, there are more factors than temperature to consider. For example, Canada and Siberia will benefit some from warmer weather, but that doesn't mean the (formally permafrost'd) soil there would be suitable for large scale agriculture.

How many carbon credits do you have left to sell to people? If we buy them, will you go away? It's over, they people are no longer buying into this scam. It's time to move on to a new way to dupe the public, this one ran out of steam.

Evil Kirk vs Bad Ash: Racist bastards, where all the white chocolate at?

White chocolate sucks. There, I said it.

Isn't this a repeat from last year?
Hell, I'm pretty sure "oh noes! cocoas!" has been a recurring story every three to four months since Anthony Ward started working to corner the cocoa market.

Is he a cocoa/weather genius, or is this the same Hedge Fund-manipulation of prices through shenanigans that hit every other commodity last year and oil several times since 2008?

Needlessly Complicated: White chocolate sucks. There, I said it.

Well, the U.S version does. Which consists of congealed soybean oil and cornsyrup, and exactly nothing from a cocoa bean.

Real white chocolate, which has 3 ingredients - cocoa butter, milk, sugar. is actually quite tasty. However it is also considerably more expensive than regular chocolate since it isolates only the most coveted part of the cocoa bean.

One thing no one can deny: sugar cane and cocoa plants absolutely hate warm temperatures.

Sugar and chocolate plantations in the arctic are closing down every year due to lack of ice. Attempts to grow them in special refrigerated greenhouses have so far failed to yield sufficient harvests to offset these losses.


If we're not careful not only will snow be a thing of the past but the economies of scandanavia, Russia, and Canada may collapse as well.

Baryogenesis: Wodan11: If climate change really happens, then we'll start growing cocoa, coffee, and sugar cane in someplace like Arkansas. Because those things are really important to civilization.

Yes and no. I'm sure there will be plenty of adaption to new suitable growing areas, but it won't be simple or quick to move entire industries. Additionally, there are more factors than temperature to consider. For example, Canada and Siberia will benefit some from warmer weather, but that doesn't mean the (formally permafrost'd) soil there would be suitable for large scale agriculture.

Entire industries like agriculture? That, by definition, involve tearing up your whole field and replanting every single year? Somehow I think that industry would be able to adjust pretty regularly. Like at yearly intervals.

/tell a corn farmer that next year he will have terrible conditions for growing corn, but excellent conditions for sugar cane at a much greater profit per acre. What do you suppose he will do next planting season?

Of course, new growing regions could develop, but moving an entire industry is never a sure thing, or cheap.


For the first time in history next year might possibly be different than the year before.

/that's why all agriculture is limited to the small area between the Tigris and Euphrates and the only industry we have is banging rocks together to make smaller and sharper rocks.

//I do worry what will happen to us should the mammoths ever die off. We rely so much on that industry to make it through the harsh winters we suffer through during this ice age.

Big Media pays people to write this nonsense and then complains that they need protection? Get your house in order and fire all the non-journalist rentseekers on your payroll, then maybe your customers might respect you.

Baryogenesis: It's within the error bars, yes, but they could also be losing mass at 24GT/yr. It's best to go with 4GT/yr and see what follow up papers have to say.

Statistical significance, how does it work? The paper you're citing comes out to about a 60% likelihood of shrinking, and 40% growth. The conclusion from that isn't "glaciers are shrinking". It's "we don't know with any confidence whether they are shrinking or growing, but shrinking is slightly more likely." As a general rule, if you can't even determine the sign of a signal, it's not significant.

watson.t.hamster: Baryogenesis: Wodan11: If climate change really happens, then we'll start growing cocoa, coffee, and sugar cane in someplace like Arkansas. Because those things are really important to civilization.

Yes and no. I'm sure there will be plenty of adaption to new suitable growing areas, but it won't be simple or quick to move entire industries. Additionally, there are more factors than temperature to consider. For example, Canada and Siberia will benefit some from warmer weather, but that doesn't mean the (formally permafrost'd) soil there would be suitable for large scale agriculture.

Entire industries like agriculture? That, by definition, involve tearing up your whole field and replanting every single year? Somehow I think that industry would be able to adjust pretty regularly. Like at yearly intervals.

/tell a corn farmer that next year he will have terrible conditions for growing corn, but excellent conditions for sugar cane at a much greater profit per acre. What do you suppose he will do next planting season?

More importantly, CO2 and higher temperatures are good for plants. That's part of the reason why crop yields are at an all time high (better technology and pest control are other major reasons), despite IPCC projections. Yes, IPCC, I'm supposed to believe you that wheat yields are steadily increasing from in the last decade, but that they'll fall dramatically by 2020. The idea that projections of chocolate production in 50 years could be even remotely accurate is comical.

Whoops! Old news. Already there:

http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm

http://www.alternet.org/health/148834/global_warming_could_lead_to_va s t_chocolate_shortage_

Thanks for my daily laugh, Warmists!

oren0: watson.t.hamster: Baryogenesis: Wodan11: If climate change really happens, then we'll start growing cocoa, coffee, and sugar cane in someplace like Arkansas. Because those things are really important to civilization.

Yes and no. I'm sure there will be plenty of adaption to new suitable growing areas, but it won't be simple or quick to move entire industries. Additionally, there are more factors than temperature to consider. For example, Canada and Siberia will benefit some from warmer weather, but that doesn't mean the (formally permafrost'd) soil there would be suitable for large scale agriculture.

Entire industries like agriculture? That, by definition, involve tearing up your whole field and replanting every single year? Somehow I think that industry would be able to adjust pretty regularly. Like at yearly intervals.

/tell a corn farmer that next year he will have terrible conditions for growing corn, but excellent conditions for sugar cane at a much greater profit per acre. What do you suppose he will do next planting season?

More importantly, CO2 and higher temperatures are good for plants. That's part of the reason why crop yields are at an all time high (better technology and pest control are other major reasons), despite IPCC projections. Yes, IPCC, I'm supposed to believe you that wheat yields are steadily increasing from in the last decade, but that they'll fall dramatically by 2020. The idea that projections of chocolate production in 50 years could be even remotely accurate is comical.

The facts are nothing but lies! We're all doomed! Antarctica has entirely melted, snow no longer exists, and we're all desperate starving refugees from a world that has rejected us.

Also the waters have risen 20 ft. No fooling.

Are you deniers getting paid? Because that's a lot of diligent horseshiattery, and the petroleum industry has plenty of money if you want some.

watson.t.hamster: Baryogenesis: Wodan11: If climate change really happens, then we'll start growing cocoa, coffee, and sugar cane in someplace like Arkansas. Because those things are really important to civilization.

Yes and no. I'm sure there will be plenty of adaption to new suitable growing areas, but it won't be simple or quick to move entire industries. Additionally, there are more factors than temperature to consider. For example, Canada and Siberia will benefit some from warmer weather, but that doesn't mean the (formally permafrost'd) soil there would be suitable for large scale agriculture.

Entire industries like agriculture? That, by definition, involve tearing up your whole field and replanting every single year? Somehow I think that industry would be able to adjust pretty regularly. Like at yearly intervals.

/tell a corn farmer that next year he will have terrible conditions for growing corn, but excellent conditions for sugar cane at a much greater profit per acre. What do you suppose he will do next planting season?


I'm sure harvesting sugar is exactly like harvesting corn and uses exactly the same equipment and expertise.


oren0: watson.t.hamster: Baryogenesis: Wodan11: If climate change really happens, then we'll start growing cocoa, coffee, and sugar cane in someplace like Arkansas. Because those things are really important to civilization.

Yes and no. I'm sure there will be plenty of adaption to new suitable growing areas, but it won't be simple or quick to move entire industries. Additionally, there are more factors than temperature to consider. For example, Canada and Siberia will benefit some from warmer weather, but that doesn't mean the (formally permafrost'd) soil there would be suitable for large scale agriculture.

Entire industries like agriculture? That, by definition, involve tearing up your whole field and replanting every single year? Somehow I think that industry would be able to adjust pretty regularly. Like at yearly intervals.

/tell a corn farmer that next year he will have terrible conditions for growing corn, but excellent conditions for sugar cane at a much greater profit per acre. What do you suppose he will do next planting season?

More importantly, CO2 and higher temperatures are good for plants. That's part of the reason why crop yields are at an all time high (better technology and pest control are other major reasons), despite IPCC projections. Yes, IPCC, I'm supposed to believe you that wheat yields are steadily increasing from in the last decade, but that they'll fall dramatically by 2020. The idea that projections of chocolate production in 50 years could be even remotely accurate is comical.


Higher temperatures are good for *some* plants, sure, but definitely not all types. The article used the example of maple trees. Even so, it's still called *climate* change. It's not just a matter of rising temperature. Rain patterns, for example, will be effected. The new temperature might help certain crops but that doesn't mean the altered climate in that area will cooperate.


oren0: Baryogenesis: It's within the error bars, yes, but they could also be losing mass at 24GT/yr. It's best to go with 4GT/yr and see what follow up papers have to say.

Statistical significance, how does it work? The paper you're citing comes out to about a 60% likelihood of shrinking, and 40% growth. The conclusion from that isn't "glaciers are shrinking". It's "we don't know with any confidence whether they are shrinking or growing, but shrinking is slightly more likely." As a general rule, if you can't even determine the sign of a signal, it's not significant.


Agreed. It also should be noted that paper differed from previously established trends (it says so in the abstract) so it'll be interesting to see what sorts of trends follow up papers find.