This should be fun

Progressive is doing that over here. Their "Snapshot" thing. I noticed they stopped advertising it and never mention it anymore, so I assume it bombed out.

People willingly put this shiat in their vehicle?

And this is another reason why I won't buy GM products. It doesn't take a giant leap to assume that systems like On*Star and Hyundai's BlueLink are phoning home performance data. BlueLink will actually dump CEL codes remotely and contact you with what service is required.

Once your car is tattling about your driving habits, it doesn't take a giant leap of faith to assume your insurance company will request the data. It also doesn't take a leap of faith to assume the company holding the data will sell it.

ha-ha-guy: Progressive is doing that over here. Their "Snapshot" thing. I noticed they stopped advertising it and never mention it anymore, so I assume it bombed out.

I still see commercials for the snapshot. Geico also offers a similar gadget, but I'm not falling for it.

And people allow insurance companies to track them... they are just looking for a reason to jack your rates.

bbbbbut their commercials say different... Wake up!

ha-ha-guy: Progressive is doing that over here. Their "Snapshot" thing. I noticed they stopped advertising it and never mention it anymore, so I assume it bombed out.

She peddled it this morning. Try the bottom feeder channels.

I'm really glad my daily commuter is 38 years old this year and contains nothing more electronically sophisticated than a solenoid. My rainy day commuter is, um, a bicycle.

/ go go old bikes!
//suck it, insurance companies

Anyone dumb enough to let their insurance company plug a monitoring device to their car under the pretense that it can get them lower rates deserves to have their rates go through the roof.The insurance companies should be required to have a disclaimer in big letters saying that rates can be raised if the device is installed...not just give the idea that they can "save you 15% or more".

And for the record, Progressive is still very much running the adds for their "Snapshot".

If that thing records what I yell at stupid drivers, I'd be locked up.

Don't forget the time of day. If you drive between 11pm and 5am they'd raise your rates as well.

Next time your insurance comes up for renewal look into a mutual company instead of a stock company.

First "stern email": Dear British driver, you are on the wrong side of the road!

freakin insurance companies.

one driver slams on the breaks to avoid an accident and gets a premium increase.

another driver blows through a red light while talking about her new shoes she just bought with her girlfriend and gets a safe driver discount.

flo looks like she has a big black box.

Both Progressive AND GEICO insist, absolutely insist their device and policies can only make your premiums go down.

That's their claim...

knightofargh: People willingly put this shiat in their vehicle?

And this is another reason why I won't buy GM products. It doesn't take a giant leap to assume that systems like On*Star and Hyundai's BlueLink are phoning home performance data. BlueLink will actually dump CEL codes remotely and contact you with what service is required.

Once your car is tattling about your driving habits, it doesn't take a giant leap of faith to assume your insurance company will request the data. It also doesn't take a leap of faith to assume the company holding the data will sell it.

What is worse about Onstar is that they will continue gathering data about you even if you don't subscribe.

Now, if you do like I did and disconnect the antennae from the onstar box (eventually I'll replace it with an after market box that duplicates the non-spying functions), they'll have a hell of a time doing THAT.

Apart from the spying, the service might be useful if I had a nav screen built in to the car. I want a MAP though, not the HUD arrows and voice directions they want to charge me for.

So now I have a mount for my android tablet on my dash and I use google maps to navigate. Still get voice directions, but if I stop, or traffic turns to shiat, I can look for an alternate route.

I drive fast and I break hard. Is it because I grew up in Texas? Is it because I have places to go? Is it because I can't stand being behind anyone who's traveling the speed limit or lower? Perhaps it is all these things, I dunno.

I don't any little black box reporting back to the mothership.

/my daughter has (2 yrs) has slowed me down to between 5-10 over and has generally cured me of farking with other drivers who cut me off.

// I still get all the way over on the freeway and hit the go-juice.

Here's a paranoid thought: could the state you live in issue traffic tickets automatically if it estimates you were driving too fast on the highway? For example, suppose you were traveling on the Massachusetts Turnpike which has tolls on every exit and on-ramp and you were using EZ Pass. They now have a record of the time you got on the road, the time you left the road, and the distance traveled between the two points. They can use this to easily estimate your speed. Going an average of 75mph? They mail you a ticket.

knightofargh: People willingly put this shiat in their vehicle?


Progressive and now one other company (whose name escapes me) are doing this in the US. It's voluntary for now, but I guarantee you that it will become mandatory before long. Oh, sure, they'll claim "you have the option!" but the option will be to either do it or pay a MASSIVE premium.

WinoRhino: Here's a paranoid thought: could the state you live in issue traffic tickets automatically if it estimates you were driving too fast on the highway? For example, suppose you were traveling on the Massachusetts Turnpike which has tolls on every exit and on-ramp and you were using EZ Pass. They now have a record of the time you got on the road, the time you left the road, and the distance traveled between the two points. They can use this to easily estimate your speed. Going an average of 75mph? They mail you a ticket.

Yes, some states already do that.

You know, the dump of the computer data doesn't worry me too much. That just has performance metrics, but nothing really about location. My insurance has not started pimping this yet, but I doubt it would be a big enough break for me to worry over.

What does worry me is the GPS location data. Who will the data belong to, you or the insurcance company? If it belongs to the company, can they sell your locations as will, or turn that data over to the government without warrant? I know this is the UK, but stuff like this is on rent to own cars and commerical trucks already, so I'm sure it won't be far behind for consumer insurance. The recent supreme court ruling saying they need a warrant to GPS track your car would matter little if they can just request or purchase the data from your insurance company.

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: knightofargh: People willingly put this shiat in their vehicle?


Progressive and now one other company (whose name escapes me) are doing this in the US. It's voluntary for now, but I guarantee you that it will become mandatory before long. Oh, sure, they'll claim "you have the option!" but the option will be to either do it or pay a MASSIVE premium.

Shouldn't be too difficult to disable/jam.

But still, fark that.

loaba: I drive fast and I break hard. Is it because I grew up in Texas? Is it because I have places to go? Is it because I can't stand being behind anyone who's traveling the speed limit or lower? Perhaps it is all these things, I dunno.

I don't any little black box reporting back to the mothership.

/my daughter has (2 yrs) has slowed me down to between 5-10 over and has generally cured me of farking with other drivers who cut me off.

// I still get all the way over on the freeway and hit the go-juice.

No, its because you are an entitled asshole driver. The fact you that only started caring more about your action when you had a kid show that.

Mr. Breeze:

Shouldn't be too difficult to disable/jam.


"Oh, I'm sorry, we didn't get a good reading on your car's performance this quarter. You'll have to pay the opt-out premium instead."

You think it's not coming?

Mr. Breeze: Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: knightofargh: People willingly put this shiat in their vehicle?


Progressive and now one other company (whose name escapes me) are doing this in the US. It's voluntary for now, but I guarantee you that it will become mandatory before long. Oh, sure, they'll claim "you have the option!" but the option will be to either do it or pay a MASSIVE premium.

Shouldn't be too difficult to disable/jam.

But still, fark that.

AFAIK, the Progressive one plugs into the OBD2 port on your car and just read the data from the computer. I have a logger for troubleshooting and aside from codes, it pulls down all sort of cool stuff like top speed, average speed, g forces on start and stop and more. You upload the data to progressive every month or whatever I think. It also records your odometer, so it would be hard 'unplug' for when you are driving hard.

//wonder if there is an exception for those that take their driver to SCCA rallies and Friday night drag races.

Here's what you do...
Step 1: Sign up for one of these insurance polycies with the device. and drive nicely for a while.
Step 2: buy one of these Link (new window), and turn it on when you feel like driving quickly.
Step 3: Profit!

Just don't accelerate too much... cuz they'll find that kinda fishy

WinoRhino: Here's a paranoid thought: could the state you live in issue traffic tickets automatically if it estimates you were driving too fast on the highway? For example, suppose you were traveling on the Massachusetts Turnpike which has tolls on every exit and on-ramp and you were using EZ Pass. They now have a record of the time you got on the road, the time you left the road, and the distance traveled between the two points. They can use this to easily estimate your speed. Going an average of 75mph? They mail you a ticket.

They already do this in PA.

In a hundred years we will have black box chip embedded in our bodies to detect risky behavior, Too much drink, no condoms, double bacon cheeseburger instead of tofu, this could get ugly.

wingnut396: No, its because you are an entitled asshole driver. The fact you that only started caring more about your action when you had a kid show that.

Funny, from my POV, the assholes (as you put it) are the folks who match speeds over 2 or 3 lanes and slow the road down for everyone.

You want to live on the road with me? Do you drive slow? Then keep it in the right-hand lane, Winger. You'll live longer that way.

damageddude: WinoRhino: Massachusetts Turnpike which has tolls on every exit and on-ramp and you were using EZ Pass. They now have a record of the time you got on the road, the time you left the road, and the distance traveled between the two points.

You go the speed limit on the NJ Turnpike where it speed limit 55 and you're getting tailgated and run off the road, even in the right lane. Same for the Garden State Parkway, though you can get on/off without going through a toll booth. People seem to drive closer to the speed limit where it is 65.

Out here, on the freeway, speed limit is 65. And people routinely drive lower than that. I typically get as far left as I can and then punch it. Invariably, someone wanders into my lane and forces me to either slow or go around 'em.

On regular city streets, lots of 'em just two-laners, you see two cars going the speed side-by-side.

damageddude: You go the speed limit on the NJ Turnpike where it speed limit 55 and you're getting tailgated and run off the road, even in the right lane. Same for the Garden State Parkway, though you can get on/off without going through a toll booth. People seem to drive closer to the speed limit where it is 65.

Yeah, I have plenty of experience driving down that way (wife is from NJ and her family still lives there.) I think the worst road with regard to speed and risk factor, though, would be the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut. 2 lanes, no shoulder or median, little to no lights, and everyone uses it like it's a NASCAR road course. It also is mostly comprised of rolling hills with twists and turns. People have been inches off my bumper going 75mph routinely. Admittedly, I'm usually doing the same without the tailgating.

loaba: Funny, from my POV, the assholes (as you put it) are the folks who match speeds over 2 or 3 lanes and slow the road down for everyone.

You want to live on the road with me? Do you drive slow? Then keep it in the right-hand lane, Winger. You'll live longer that way.

It sounds like you're more of an asshole than the people you purport to hate. Yes, people who drive in passing lanes are farking idiots, but road-raging, tail-gating, death-threatening impotent tosspots who have a burning desire to reach their destination a whole 30 seconds earlier than they otherwise would are definitely worse.

wingnut396: What does worry me is the GPS location data.

Yeah. A stop at the bar or liquor store might be actuarially imprudent as well, resulting in a premium increase.

They'll put one in my car when they pry open my cold dead hands - or something like that.

/or in 10 years when it become mandatory and everyone without one is labelled a terrorist

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: knightofargh: People willingly put this shiat in their vehicle?


Progressive and now one other company (whose name escapes me) are doing this in the US. It's voluntary for now, but I guarantee you that it will become mandatory before long. Oh, sure, they'll claim "you have the option!" but the option will be to either do it or pay a MASSIVE premium.

This is what I'm afraid of. If an insurance company mandates one of these with an opt-out, they aren't going to give you an average rate. If they have a "safe", "average", and "dangerous" driver category, you know opt-outs aren't going to be allowed to default to the "safe" or "average" rates, even if they already default to those under current predictors, such as driving history, age, etc.

I've never been in an accident after driving for nearly a decade, and I speed a little... to a lot. One of those flags me as "safe" the other (which the insurance company doesn't, and shouldn't know) does not. But in a few years, I'm sure we're all going to have to do this.

As long as there's a way to fudge the OBDII data, I think the consumer has a chance. But as soon as insurance companies get a chance to mandate these unless you opt to pay ridiculous premiums, we're so farked.

The Envoy: It sounds like you're more of an asshole than the people you purport to hate. Yes, people who drive in passing lanes are farking idiots, but road-raging, tail-gating, death-threatening impotent tosspots who have a burning desire to reach their destination a whole 30 seconds earlier than they otherwise would are definitely worse.

Why is it such a foreign concept that I value my time? You may have all day to putter about, I don't.

/ I don't tail-gate - but I do get around slow traffic ASAP
// my #1 goal is to maintain distance between my vehicles and everyone else. I don't want to be stuck in the pack.

loaba: wingnut396: No, its because you are an entitled asshole driver. The fact you that only started caring more about your action when you had a kid show that.

Funny, from my POV, the assholes (as you put it) are the folks who match speeds over 2 or 3 lanes and slow the road down for everyone.

You want to live on the road with me? Do you drive slow? Then keep it in the right-hand lane, Winger. You'll live longer that way.

You know, it depends on why there are 3 lanes going the same speed. Is it because it is heavy traffic and no where to go? Being an asshole zipping in and out traffic just makes it worse you know But I assume you don't care, as you are the most farking important person in the world. Who cares if you kill or harm someone else so you can arrive at the Outback 5 minutes earlier, am I right?

In the case of a wide open freeway, yeah, that it annoying, but not what I consider what is worthy of a death threat.

But then I try not be an asshole.

//I actually usually drive about 5 to 10 over on wide open interstate and speed limit or lower if needed in residential areas(re, lots of pedestrians around). Love it when the lawn care guys with their F350s and 20 foot trailers get pissy about me driving the speed limit in the neighborhood because they have important lawns to maintain... and half the street to block when they arrive at their destination.

WinoRhino: Here's a paranoid thought: could the state you live in issue traffic tickets automatically if it estimates you were driving too fast on the highway? For example, suppose you were traveling on the Massachusetts Turnpike which has tolls on every exit and on-ramp and you were using EZ Pass. They now have a record of the time you got on the road, the time you left the road, and the distance traveled between the two points. They can use this to easily estimate your speed. Going an average of 75mph? They mail you a ticket.

They've been doing this to commercial drivers for decades. I worked on the system back in the '80s.

The Envoy

who have a burning desire to reach their destination a whole 30 seconds earlier than they otherwise would

Either you're assuming people all drive very short distances or you're assuming speeding means driving 5 mph faster than other people.

Neither are realistic.

WinoRhino: damageddude: You go the speed limit on the NJ Turnpike where it speed limit 55 and you're getting tailgated and run off the road, even in the right lane. Same for the Garden State Parkway, though you can get on/off without going through a toll booth. People seem to drive closer to the speed limit where it is 65.

Yeah, I have plenty of experience driving down that way (wife is from NJ and her family still lives there.) I think the worst road with regard to speed and risk factor, though, would be the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut. 2 lanes, no shoulder or median, little to no lights, and everyone uses it like it's a NASCAR road course. It also is mostly comprised of rolling hills with twists and turns. People have been inches off my bumper going 75mph routinely. Admittedly, I'm usually doing the same without the tailgating.

I had to commute on the Merritt about 20 miles each way for 3 months. Its really kind of impressive that there's not a fatal accident every day, because it is exactly as you described. But, people seem to do their thing and it works, more or less.

If it's a friday afternoon/evening, or there is an accident, things get FUBAR, though. And CT doesn't have a lot of alternate routes.

The Envoy: It sounds like you're more of an asshole than the people you purport to hate. Yes, people who drive in passing lanes are farking idiots, but road-raging, tail-gating, death-threatening impotent tosspots who have a burning desire to reach their destination a whole 30 seconds earlier than they otherwise would are definitely worse.

THIS. I typically don't drive slowly so I am usually in the left lane getting around slower traffic. If I see a car flying up on me I'll get out of the way because 70-75mph is usually my limit. If I can't get over to the middle lane because of traffic, the road-raging moron in back of me will just have to wait. If they're patient and a few car lengths off my bumper, I make it a priority to get out of their way. If they flash their lights and ride my tail, I will slow down to 50 or, like this guy complained about, match speeds with the other lanes. Then I'll flip them off so they know I am doing it on purpose. I realize this is being just as much of an asshole as the light flashing tailgater, but I don't claim to be very mature in those situations.

gojirast: Apart from the spying, the service might be useful if I had a nav screen built in to the car. I want a MAP though, not the HUD arrows and voice directions they want to charge me for.

Four color displays aren't that expensive, GM's "nav" is an embarrassment. "Top of the line" on a 2012 car is a four line monochromatic display that looks like it came from my parents' '98 BMW... The again nearly 28k for a Cruze is embarrassing. I can get much nicer mid-size cars for that price.

I'm still trying to get a straight answer from Hyundai as to how much data BlueLink is phoning home. I'm looking at buying a Sonata and I don't want that "feature" tattling to my insurer. Apparently it doesn't phone home unless it's activated, but that's according to the dealer.

wingnut396: You know, it depends on why there are 3 lanes going the same speed. Is it because it is heavy traffic and no where to go? Being an asshole zipping in and out traffic just makes it worse you know But I assume you don't care, as you are the most farking important person in the world. Who cares if you kill or harm someone else so you can arrive at the Outback 5 minutes earlier, am I right?

In the case of a wide open freeway, yeah, that it annoying, but not what I consider what is worthy of a death threat.

But then I try not be an asshole.

//I actually usually drive about 5 to 10 over on wide open interstate and speed limit or lower if needed in residential areas(re, lots of pedestrians around). Love it when the lawn care guys with their F350s and 20 foot trailers get pissy about me driving the speed limit in the neighborhood because they have important lawns to maintain... and half the street to block when they arrive at their destination.
_____________________________

Residential areas are sacrosanct.

On normal city streets there are any number of reasons for why traffic slows. Some I can understand, others (like one car that is driving slow for no apparent reason) piss me off.

Basically it comes down to this; there are fast drivers and slow drivers and we all share the same roads. It's not your job to police me (the fast driver). Slow traffic to the left, faster traffic to the right. If everyone respected that one basic rule, there would be a lot less rage on the road.

/ of course I'm the most important driver on the road. Aren't you?

jcb274: Its really kind of impressive that there's not a fatal accident every day, because it is exactly as you described.

Right? I usually am pretty relaxed when driving... one hand on the wheel, the other around the shoulders of my best girl, listening to the latest pop crooner on the hi-fi. But I hit the merritt and it's a quick spit in the my palms for sure grip, hands at 10-and-2 and a Motorhead CD blaring.

loaba: The Envoy: It sounds like you're more of an asshole than the people you purport to hate. Yes, people who drive in passing lanes are farking idiots, but road-raging, tail-gating, death-threatening impotent tosspots who have a burning desire to reach their destination a whole 30 seconds earlier than they otherwise would are definitely worse.

Why is it such a foreign concept that I value my time? You may have all day to putter about, I don't.

/ I don't tail-gate - but I do get around slow traffic ASAP
// my #1 goal is to maintain distance between my vehicles and everyone else. I don't want to be stuck in the pack.

It's not a foreign concept, at all. On long journeys you may save yourself a few minutes, but on short ones it really is only a metter of a few seconds. As for not being stuck in the pack, every motorway in the world is made up of packs, constantly revolving, merging, pulling apart etc. You're never going to be free of them. Speed up and you'll end up in the one in front. Slow down and you'll be caught by the one behind. Maintain your spead and you'll catch the slow ones from the pack in front and the fast ones from the pack behind and you'll be in a whole new pack. It's a losing battle.

I get what you're saying and I used to drive aggressively for exactly the same reason as you. My favourite mantra was that the idiots' home lives must have been dysfunctional and unhappy as they didn't want to seem to get where they were going, whereas all I wanted to do was arrive. I've slowed down, I still arrive and I'm not a raving ball of stress and anger when I do.

For what it's worth, I apologise for calling you an asshole. I understand what you mean.

loaba: Slow traffic to the left, faster traffic to the right.

LOL. I think I've identified your problem.

loaba: of course I'm the most important driver on the road. Aren't you?

Back in my days as a psych student, I often thought there should be a course on the psychology of driving. Part of it definitely is a thought process where everyone thinks they're "the only one who knows how to drive properly" in whatever condition, road, route, or what have you is presented to them.

WinoRhino: Here's a paranoid thought: could the state you live in issue traffic tickets automatically if it estimates you were driving too fast on the highway? For example, suppose you were traveling on the Massachusetts Turnpike which has tolls on every exit and on-ramp and you were using EZ Pass. They now have a record of the time you got on the road, the time you left the road, and the distance traveled between the two points. They can use this to easily estimate your speed. Going an average of 75mph? They mail you a ticket.

Britain uses average speed camera systems on some of their roads that basically do the same thing

/as long as you're within about 5mph of the speed limit chances are that speed is not the primary causative factor in an accident
//but staring at your speedometer trying to make sure you're not going 2mph over the limit might be

WinoRhino: damageddude: ...

Yeah, I have plenty of experience driving down that way (wife is from NJ and her family still lives there.) I think the worst road with regard to speed and risk factor, though, would be the Merritt Parkway in Connecticut. 2 lanes, no shoulder or median, little to no lights, and everyone uses it like it's a NASCAR road course. It also is mostly comprised of rolling hills with twists and turns. People have been inches off my bumper going 75mph routinely. Admittedly, I'm usually doing the same without the tailgating.

Huh, I'll put the (NY) Belt Parkway, from Verrazano into Nassau Cnty, againt your Merritt Parkway for the white knuckle experience.


loaba:
/ I don't tail-gate - but I do get around slow traffic ASAP
// my #1 goal is to maintain distance between my vehicles and everyone else. I don't want to be stuck in the pack.

Word