I march along the Revolutionary Guards
I never thought I'd meet an Ayatollah like you
Meet an Ayatollah like you

With threats of war and oil sanctions
The kind of sanctions that will close the Strait of Hormuz
Close the Strait of Hormuz

Iran, Iran so far away
I farkin ran, Iran from fundamental change
But I couldn't get away from Tehran

The bomb seems to be a guarantee of protection from both the United States and Israel. I can understand why they want it, the same way they use the hangings and killings t oguarantee protection domestically!

make me some tea: Boy, I certainly hope all of that's true.

I do too, but for about the past years, we've heard the following two refrains:


1. The current regime in Iran is going to topple any minute now.

2. Iran is going to get the bomb any minute now.

I have no doubt that both are likely to happen at some point, I just can't see how this "any minute now" is any different or more accurate than any of the past "any minute nows".

For once it may sound like a trade embargo is actually working... I remain cautiously optimistic.

I'm still not sure what we're fighting, though. I get that the Iranian government is evil and doesn't like the Jews, but I don't buy that they're "a year away from building a nuke." The government's been feeding us that line for 30 years.

All the Asian countries are balking at these sanctions. The U.S.'s big stick is limp.

Shaggy_C: The bomb seems to be a guarantee of protection from both the United States and Israel. I can understand why they want it, the same way they use the hangings and killings t oguarantee protection domestically!

You do realize that Israel and the US could give a rats ass about Iran except for the bomb.

BSABSVR: past 15 years

FTFM

BSABSVR: I do too, but for about the past years, we've heard the following two refrains:

1. The current regime in Iran is going to topple any minute now.

I've been reading these predictions for 20 years. Any day now. Just like Cuba.

Death to New Rome


All the Asian countries are balking at these sanctions. The U.S.'s big stick is limpfirm yet flaccid.

FTFY

yeah, about that...

Link (new window)

Link (new window)

yert: Shaggy_C: The bomb seems to be a guarantee of protection from both the United States and Israel. I can understand why they want it, the same way they use the hangings and killings t oguarantee protection domestically!

You do realize that Israel and the US could give a rats ass about Iran except for the bomb.

At the risk of getting shouted down, I think Iran is valuable to Israel as a substitute bogeyman in order to secure continued American military aid after the decline of the Soviet Union.

yert: You do realize that Israel and the US could give a rats ass about Iran except for the bomb.

Iran is the most powerful nation in the Middle East. They have significant strategic importance above and beyond "the bomb".

Shaggy_C: yert: You do realize that Israel and the US could give a rats ass about Iran except for the bomb.

Iran is the most powerful nation in the Middle East. They have significant strategic importance above and beyond "the bomb".

So what you are say is they are not scared of israel but are building a bomb because they are scared of israel.

indylaw: yert: Shaggy_C: The bomb seems to be a guarantee of protection from both the United States and Israel. I can understand why they want it, the same way they use the hangings and killings t oguarantee protection domestically!

You do realize that Israel and the US could give a rats ass about Iran except for the bomb.

At the risk of getting shouted down, I think Iran is valuable to Israel as a substitute bogeyman in order to secure continued American military aid after the decline of the Soviet Union.

I don't think it is a substitute boogey man. Iran for years has been funding Israel's enemies Hamas and Hezbollah. And they have stated they want to see israel wiped off the map. I personally don't think they mean psychically. I t think they mean politically. Either way it is a threat to the jewish state.

The only reason Israel is a threat to Iran is because Iran is building (arguably) a nuclear bomb. If they were not Israel would not be preparing to bomb the crap out of them (which isn't going to help by the way).

Israel is not the only nation in the area that does not want Iran to have nukes. Nobody over there want the Persians to have it. Because they are giant assholes when they have power. Secretly Saudiarabia, oman, uae, etc.. would love for Israel to stop Iran. that way Israel gets blamed and the threat goes away.

In fact in the entire world I can only think of 3 or 4 state actors who want Iran to have the bomb
1. NK (cause they mad)
2. Syrian (cause they are butt buddies with Iran and want to fark with the Joooos)
3. Cuba (butt buddies with Iran and want to fark with USA)
4. Venezuela (butt buddies with cuba, same reason)

yert: indylaw: yert: Shaggy_C: The bomb seems to be a guarantee of protection from both the United States and Israel. I can understand why they want it, the same way they use the hangings and killings t oguarantee protection domestically!

You do realize that Israel and the US could give a rats ass about Iran except for the bomb.

At the risk of getting shouted down, I think Iran is valuable to Israel as a substitute bogeyman in order to secure continued American military aid after the decline of the Soviet Union.

I don't think it is a substitute boogey man. Iran for years has been funding Israel's enemies Hamas and Hezbollah. And they have stated they want to see israel wiped off the map. I personally don't think they mean psychically. I t think they mean politically. Either way it is a threat to the jewish state.

The only reason Israel is a threat to Iran is because Iran is building (arguably) a nuclear bomb. If they were not Israel would not be preparing to bomb the crap out of them (which isn't going to help by the way).

Israel is not the only nation in the area that does not want Iran to have nukes. Nobody over there want the Persians to have it. Because they are giant assholes when they have power. Secretly Saudiarabia, oman, uae, etc.. would love for Israel to stop Iran. that way Israel gets blamed and the threat goes away.

In fact in the entire world I can only think of 3 or 4 state actors who want Iran to have the bomb
1. NK (cause they mad)
2. Syrian (cause they are butt buddies with Iran and want to fark with the Joooos)
3. Cuba (butt buddies with Iran and want to fark with USA)
4. Venezuela (butt buddies with cuba, same reason)

I don't doubt that Iran funds terrorist groups and regimes that are hostile to Israel and pose a security threat to Israel. I'm not saying that Iran's government is not evil. I'd be lying if I did.

That's a separate issue from the question of Iran's capability and intent to build a nuclear weapon. I think the case for that has been largely ginned up by the government of Israel in order to demonstrate (or provide a publicly plausible) threat to the interests of the United States independent of Israel.

Contrary to what American politicians would have you believe, Israel and the United States have not always been BFFs since Israel's founding. The United States jumped in to strongly support Israel with military aid as part of the strategy of the Cold War only after it was clear that the USSR was aligned with Israel's Arab enemies. Early relations were much more tentative. It has also been beneficial from a domestic political stand point for various politicians to declare support for Israel in order to win over Jewish voters and, later, evangelical Christians who believe that supporting Israel will hasten the end times.

Other nations near Iran are wary of Iran for reasons beyond mere fear of nuclear weapons. Iran is a regional power and antagonistic to the interests of Arab neighbors. It has designs on expanding its power and perhaps its political borders. But that's their fight. Without the perception that Iran is building nuclear weapons, Europe and the United States would be hard pressed to care about Iran. Without the fear of the bomb, Israel and the Gulf States want Iran gone because of the terrorist or political threats that it poses.

indylaw: That's a separate issue from the question of Iran's capability and intent to build a nuclear weapon. I think the case for that has been largely ginned up by the government of Israel in order to demonstrate (or provide a publicly plausible) threat to the interests of the United States independent of Israel.

hence my "arguably" qualification. As someone with some knowledge of Israeli intelligence, I tend to agree with you about them being a bit hyperbolic OhNoes. But I also believe that Iran is pursuing a weapon and that elimination of that threat is the goal of most actors in the region.

the entire world has asked that Iran do something and Iran gives it the finger. I don't see US and Israel as the bad actors here. Nor germans, french, saudis, brits etc.

/wife is Israeli
//worked for israeli embassy in DC
///has ambassador on speed dial

Oh and

If they do build that bomb they would be absolutely insane to use it pre-emptively.

Iran has a misguided belief that the US and Israel plan to invade sooner rather than later and so they want the bomb just in case. In reality probably the best thing we can do is let them build the thing and sit on it while their populace grows increasingly weary of their posturing. After years of talk about how they need the bomb and everything will be great once they get it it would be a lot of egg on their face to complete the bomb and the citizens see the same shiatty government.

And I doubt they would willingly hand it over to terrorists either since they know it would be easily traced back to them with the same outcome. The population of Iran is not N Korea. They travel to Europe, they access the internet and are tied into international media.

yert: the entire world has asked that Iran do something and Iran gives it the finger. I don't see US and Israel as the bad actors here. Nor germans, french, saudis, brits etc.

I don't see them as bad actors, necessarily. There's no love lost for the Iranian regime... they're miserable, evil shiats. But at the same time, I can't get excited for a war with Iran, because I think the casus belli is premised on questionable evidence, and because the last thing we need is another war. Let Israel bomb nuclear targets if it so desires, but we shouldn't get involved in another got-dammed land war/nation building exercise.

indylaw: yert: the entire world has asked that Iran do something and Iran gives it the finger. I don't see US and Israel as the bad actors here. Nor germans, french, saudis, brits etc.

I don't see them as bad actors, necessarily. There's no love lost for the Iranian regime... they're miserable, evil shiats. But at the same time, I can't get excited for a war with Iran, because I think the casus belli is premised on questionable evidence, and because the last thing we need is another war. Let Israel bomb nuclear targets if it so desires, but we shouldn't get involved in another got-dammed land war/nation building exercise.

agreed. though if it is a true international effort such as Libya and not bank rolled by the USA I would have less trouble with limited involvement. I am so glad we are past Bush's daddy issues. Farked up one justified war to start an unjustified one. I think Obama has it under control.

I also think they are playing good cop bad cop with Iran.

obama: see that guy in the yamika over there. he doesn't believe your story and he wants to kick your teeth in. Me I want to help you. I can keep him off you for a while but you have to help me to help you.

(netinyaooo over in the corner Krav Magaing the crap out of a bunny wabbit)

yert: But I also believe that Iran is pursuing a weapon and that elimination of that threat is the goal of most actors in the region.

How far should Israel or their attack dog be willing to go to eliminate that threat? 60 year old technology and so on. You have to do some serious damage to stop the iranians from getting hold of it.

Uncle Tractor: yert: But I also believe that Iran is pursuing a weapon and that elimination of that threat is the goal of most actors in the region.

How far should Israel or their attack dog be willing to go to eliminate that threat? 60 year old technology and so on. You have to do some serious damage to stop the iranians from getting hold of it.

You really do not understand what "most actors in that region" means. This is not about Israel. This is about the whole farking world asking for Iran to stop doing something/let us see what you are doing. And Iran going fark you I'll do what I want. Just because Israel is one of the players does not mean everyone else is their attack dog.

If we were to take action it would be for the security of everyone in the region. Persians hate arabs as much if not more that they hate jews.

So please put away your "it's the joooooooos" mantra and look at the whole situation not just the one that fits into your little world view.

Lunchlady: If they do build that bomb they would be absolutely insane to use it pre-emptively.


Prob is they are insane (at least some of the leadership). Look up the 12th Iman bit (could be the 13th to lazy to go look)

BSABSVR: 1. The current regime in Iran is going to topple any minute now.

2. Iran is going to get the bomb any minute now.

Number one is much more likely than number two. And number one is the only reason we should be worried about number two.

yert: You really do not understand what "most actors in that region" means. This is not about Israel.

Yes, this is about Israel. Israel is a large part of Iran's motive for getting nukes (besides that bit about totalitarian regimes without them tend to get bombed by the US), and without Israel, the noise level around this wouldn't have been a fraction of what it is now.

This is about the whole farking world asking for Iran to stop doing something/let us see what you are doing.

"The whole farking world" in this case is mostly Israel and the US. Yes, other states also want Iran to stop, but most of the noise is from Israel and the US.

If we were to take action it would be for the security of everyone in the region.

If you want to talk about security in the region, start by looking at Israel and US interference.

Persians hate arabs as much if not more that they hate jews.

That's just hasbara BS. Oh, and the whole "hate jews" thing sounds a bit iffy, considering that about 25000 jews live in Iran. If the iranians hate them that much, shouldn't they be dead by now?

So please put away your "it's the joooooooos" mantra and look at the whole situation not just the one that fits into your little world view.

Maybe you should put away your "anti-semite" mantra. Criticizing Israel is not anti-semitism. Accusing critics of anti-semitism (yes, that's what you were doing with you idiotic "jooooooooos" comment) is plain dishonest.

But what else can one expect from an Israel-apologist?

Uncle Tractor: yert: You really do not understand what "most actors in that region" means. This is not about Israel.

Yes, this is about Israel. Israel is a large part of Iran's motive for getting nukes (besides that bit about totalitarian regimes without them tend to get bombed by the US), and without Israel, the noise level around this wouldn't have been a fraction of what it is now.

This is about the whole farking world asking for Iran to stop doing something/let us see what you are doing.

"The whole farking world" in this case is mostly Israel and the US. Yes, other states also want Iran to stop, but most of the noise is from Israel and the US.

If we were to take action it would be for the security of everyone in the region.

If you want to talk about security in the region, start by looking at Israel and US interference.

Persians hate arabs as much if not more that they hate jews.

That's just hasbara BS. Oh, and the whole "hate jews" thing sounds a bit iffy, considering that about 25000 jews live in Iran. If the iranians hate them that much, shouldn't they be dead by now?

So please put away your "it's the joooooooos" mantra and look at the whole situation not just the one that fits into your little world view.

Maybe you should put away your "anti-semite" mantra. Criticizing Israel is not anti-semitism. Accusing critics of anti-semitism (yes, that's what you were doing with you idiotic "jooooooooos" comment) is plain dishonest.

But what else can one expect from an Israel-apologist?

I think everyone is looking at it the wrong way. Iran is not a big evil monster who wants to nuke the world. Iran has an inept government and an infrastructure incapable of properly handling nuclear energy. If everybody just said "we aren't afraid of you because you're badass, we're scared of you because we have reason to believe you are stupid enough to blow yourselves up and contaminate the entire Gulf region" I think a lot of the Iranian/Israeli/Saudi/Republican hawkish chest-thumping would dissipate.

karnal: I march along the Revolutionary Guards
I never thought I'd meet an Ayatollah like you
Meet an Ayatollah like you

With threats of war and oil sanctions
The kind of sanctions that will close the Strait of Hormuz
Close the Strait of Hormuz

Iran, Iran so far away
I farkin ran, Iran from fundamental change
But I couldn't get away from Tehran

Your day job. Do not quit it.

yert: Shaggy_C: The bomb seems to be a guarantee of protection from both the United States and Israel. I can understand why they want it, the same way they use the hangings and killings t oguarantee protection domestically!

You do realize that Israel and the US could give a rats ass about Iran except for the bomb.

You're right. It's not like they'd attack a sovereign nation to remove their capability to use nuclear weapons despite that nation not having any nuclear weapons.

thamike: think everyone is looking at it the wrong way. Iran is not a big evil monster who wants to nuke the world. Iran has an inept government and an infrastructure incapable of properly handling nuclear energy.

To be fair, that isn't an argument I've heard from, well, anybody. Regarding the latter, who are we to tell them whether they're ready for a given technology? Is any nation really any more trustworthy when it comes to that sort of thing?

blahpers: To be fair, that isn't an argument I've heard from, well, anybody. Regarding the latter, who are we to tell them whether they're ready for a given technology? Is any nation really any more trustworthy when it comes to that sort of thing?

Yes.

I can break it down into simpler terms:

vs.

/but in a generally philosophical way, I feel your point.