FARK.com: (6933747) Greek MPs resigning left, right and far-right over the latest demands from EZ finance ministers. Stay tuned as the drama unfolds toward its final act on Sunday

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		Greek MPs resigning left, right and far-right over the latest demands from EZ finance ministers. Stay tuned as the drama unfolds toward its final act on Sunday (guardian.co.uk)		103
		More: Followup, EZ Rollers, finance ministers

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103 Comments (+0 »)

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shadytony

2012-02-10 12:02:29 PM

JUST DEFAULT ALREADY!!!

/sorry, but this charade has gone on waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long.

vgacolor

2012-02-10 12:03:02 PM

Not surprisingly politicians everywhere are not willing to do things that are unpopular even if they are the right things to do.

Similar to the:

/we wont reform entitlements from the left

and

/any tax increases or loophole closing is off the table from the right

KangTheMad

2012-02-10 12:04:50 PM

Woah woah woah, is that riot cop levitating?

//hot like that molotov cocktail.

BigNumber12

2012-02-10 12:05:33 PM

Few things are as ugly as entitled people having their freebies taken away.

mercator_psi

2012-02-10 12:06:53 PM

If anyone has stock in Europey-smelling-thingies, now would be a really good time to SELLSELLSELLSELLSELLSELLSELL!!!!!!11111

/not a financial advisor

Kazaa

2012-02-10 12:07:03 PM

START COLLECTING TAXES, NIMRODS.

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros

2012-02-10 12:07:13 PM

The final act is where they start nailing their moms, right?

bhcompy

2012-02-10 12:08:10 PM

Why are military police resigning?

KangTheMad

2012-02-10 12:09:15 PM

mercator_psi: If anyone has stock in Europey-smelling-thingies, now would be a really good time to SELLSELLSELLSELLSELLSELLSELL!!!!!!11111

/not a financial advisor

Except BAE. If that railgun works well, they're going to get a nice profit from the US.

fanbladesaresharp

2012-02-10 12:09:19 PM

Of course they're resigning. They have their own "business" connections to keep out of view while looking like a hungry crying baby to the IMF.

What's the interest rate on one gangsta loan to another? Is there a grace period when they miss the payments?

nameless314

2012-02-10 12:10:24 PM

and as the shoes drop in the inevitable collapse of the western financial system....i find myself largely unfazed

DavidVincent

2012-02-10 12:14:55 PM

No snide comments from me. I live in California.

FarkedOver

2012-02-10 12:15:15 PM

Keep farking that austerity chicken. Paradox of thrift will come to bite you in the ass soon enough.

Backwards Cornfield Races

2012-02-10 12:20:43 PM

A welfare state where no one pays taxes? Color me shocked

redundantman

2012-02-10 12:23:38 PM

Greek Mary Poppins' resigning? I guess their contracts were up?

whither_apophis

2012-02-10 12:26:00 PM

So apparently the knowledge that Greece was a completely farked economy, since basically ever, was known by all except the money whiz kids in the EU and their various banks. And these are the same people now coming up with the answers?

/Greece, done. Default and set up a real economy and gov't while you're at it.
//banks: suxors, you made a bad loan, you lose money. Really pretty simple

PowerSlacker

2012-02-10 12:27:01 PM

FarkedOver: Keep farking that austerity chicken. Paradox of thrift will come to bite you in the ass soon enough.

As opposed to the paradox of unsustainable largesse which has been biting Greece in the ass for the last three years?

bhcompy

2012-02-10 12:31:40 PM

Infernalist

2012-02-10 12:31:50 PM

Why do people think that austerity efforts(voluntarily cutting back on all manners of governmental spending) will do anything more than drag the economy down even faster?

Economies need lots of cashing moving around, not for everyone(including the government) to be blindly clenching their money in both fists.

FarkedOver

2012-02-10 12:33:51 PM

PowerSlacker: FarkedOver: Keep farking that austerity chicken. Paradox of thrift will come to bite you in the ass soon enough.

As opposed to the paradox of unsustainable largesse which has been biting Greece in the ass for the last three years?

So cut wages and services and ask workers to pay more. Makes wonderful sense. Nobody will be able to afford anything. I'm sure those who are free market warriors and have diplomas from the Austrian school will say prices will fall when nobody is able to buy. It'll all work out just fine, I'm sure.

FarkingReading

2012-02-10 12:39:26 PM

Xenogiannakopoulou?
Xenogiannakopoulou.
Xenogiannakopoulou!

bhcompy

2012-02-10 12:40:02 PM

Talondel

2012-02-10 12:40:11 PM

Infernalist: Why do people think that austerity efforts(voluntarily cutting back on all manners of governmental spending) will do anything more than drag the economy down even faster?

Economies need lots of cashing moving around, not for everyone(including the government) to be blindly clenching their money in both fists.

Why do people think Greece has any other option *other* than austerity? What else do you want them to do, borrow more money? No one will lend them any money. You want them to inflate their currency? They can't, they use the Euro and don't have any control over their own monetary policy.

Greece has exactly two options. 1) Do what the rest of the EZ says to do, and get some extra money from them to keep their economy from completely falling apart. 2) Default and deal with the consequences.

As for the EZ, they have no choice but to demand harsh cutbacks and austerity. There are four other EZ countries that are also in financial trouble. Germany can't afford to bail out all of them. And whatever they do for Greece, they'll be expected to do for the others. They have no choice but to make accepting a bailout look unpalatable to Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Ireland, because if they don't those four will be the next in line with their hands out asking for bailouts.

Anyone who thinks there's an option for Greece other than austerity isn't paying attention to what's going on.

Tatterdemalian

2012-02-10 12:44:32 PM

I'll put my money on the Greek military invading either Albania or Turkey the first time their paychecks bounce.

/might not even bother declaring war first

jjorsett

2012-02-10 12:49:32 PM

FarkedOver: PowerSlacker: FarkedOver: Keep farking that austerity chicken. Paradox of thrift will come to bite you in the ass soon enough.

As opposed to the paradox of unsustainable largesse which has been biting Greece in the ass for the last three years?

So cut wages and services and ask workers to pay more. Makes wonderful sense. Nobody will be able to afford anything. I'm sure those who are free market warriors and have diplomas from the Austrian school will say prices will fall when nobody is able to buy. It'll all work out just fine, I'm sure.

And what's your solution, just keep borrowing and spending? What do you do when there's nobody who'll lend you money any longer? There are two alternatives to austerity (which also goes by the name "live within your means): 1) Leave the EU, force your citizens to convert their Euros into Drachmas (institute currency controls first so people can't get their Euros out before you force the conversion), and hope you can inflate your way out of the problem, or 2) get some non-broke EU state like Germany to pick up the tab. Looks like 2) isn't going to happen, so 1) is your only out.

shadytony

2012-02-10 12:53:43 PM

There is a perfectly viable alternative to austerity. It's called default. Choosing to default is a formal declaration that Greece, as a sovereign country, will not lick the boots of bankers. It worked for Iceland and it can work for Greece. Since the bankers are now firmly in control of the Western world, they are pushing to prevent this option from being realized, as it threatens their profits, and therefore their power. Greece WILL default. It's not a matter of "if" but "when". A 509% one-year bond yield is not the reflection of a healthy, austerity-loving economy.

Gunther

2012-02-10 12:56:32 PM

Talondel: Anyone who thinks there's an option for Greece other than austerity isn't paying attention to what's going on.

That doesn't stop austerity measures from being a really, really horrible way of dealing with an economic crisis.

But yeah, the EU is forcing them on Greece, and their only other choice is to default. Which is no choice at all, really.

error 303

2012-02-10 12:57:26 PM

I sort of think European officials have shot themselves in the foot this time. I'd wager their banks are more exposed to Greek debt than they've let on and Greece won't tolerate being dictated to much longer, definitely not after the next round of elections.

What I see happening is Greece winds up with an unstructured default and goes back to their own currency. The EU tries to get together a resolution to kick Greece out of the Union but the measure gets blocked when various other countries refuse to sign off on treaties, so they're left in some weird situation where Greece remains in the EU while not really being in the EU.

Greece gets 10 - 20 years of insane inflation and worthless currency and European markets party like it's September 2008.

As they say in Barcelona, it's gonna get Messi.

Smelly Pirate Hooker

2012-02-10 12:58:12 PM

It's kinda hard to feel sorry for countries that are the financial equivalent of some guy that borrowed shiatloads of money to buy a big house, a nice car and luxurious vacations, then whined that he had no money when all the bills came due.

Hasn't Greece been doing that shiat for decades?

Not that the people who loaned them money are much smarter.

FarkedOver

2012-02-10 12:58:31 PM

jjorsett: FarkedOver: PowerSlacker: FarkedOver: Keep farking that austerity chicken. Paradox of thrift will come to bite you in the ass soon enough.

As opposed to the paradox of unsustainable largesse which has been biting Greece in the ass for the last three years?

So cut wages and services and ask workers to pay more. Makes wonderful sense. Nobody will be able to afford anything. I'm sure those who are free market warriors and have diplomas from the Austrian school will say prices will fall when nobody is able to buy. It'll all work out just fine, I'm sure.

And what's your solution, just keep borrowing and spending? What do you do when there's nobody who'll lend you money any longer? There are two alternatives to austerity (which also goes by the name "live within your means): 1) Leave the EU, force your citizens to convert their Euros into Drachmas (institute currency controls first so people can't get their Euros out before you force the conversion), and hope you can inflate your way out of the problem, or 2) get some non-broke EU state like Germany to pick up the tab. Looks like 2) isn't going to happen, so 1) is your only out.

It's a shiatty situation indeed but asking those he can't afford it to pay for something they cannot is absurd. The problem is not the average worker shirking their taxes. The problem is (and this is not just a Greek problem) that to many concessions have been given to big business. The corporate tax rate in Greece in 2000 was 40%. In 2010 it was at 20%. The problem is business and they are the ones that should be hung out to dry for this. They caused the whole mess globally and they need to reap what they sow.

umad

2012-02-10 01:02:48 PM

FarkedOver: Keep farking that austerity chicken. Paradox of thrift will come to bite you in the ass soon enough.

Austerity would work if they had been allowed to cut enough. Corrupt politicians supported by morons are just voting against the people's best interests. Things would be much worse if they didn't do what little they did.

Negligible

2012-02-10 01:03:03 PM

jjorsett: FarkedOver: PowerSlacker: FarkedOver: Keep farking that austerity chicken. Paradox of thrift will come to bite you in the ass soon enough.

As opposed to the paradox of unsustainable largesse which has been biting Greece in the ass for the last three years?

So cut wages and services and ask workers to pay more. Makes wonderful sense. Nobody will be able to afford anything. I'm sure those who are free market warriors and have diplomas from the Austrian school will say prices will fall when nobody is able to buy. It'll all work out just fine, I'm sure.

And what's your solution, just keep borrowing and spending? What do you do when there's nobody who'll lend you money any longer? There are two alternatives to austerity (which also goes by the name "live within your means): 1) Leave the EU, force your citizens to convert their Euros into Drachmas (institute currency controls first so people can't get their Euros out before you force the conversion), and hope you can inflate your way out of the problem, or 2) get some non-broke EU state like Germany to pick up the tab. Looks like 2) isn't going to happen, so 1) is your only out.

Or there's 3) Default, stay in the Euro and drag everyone else down with them (for a time, at least)

PowerSlacker

2012-02-10 01:07:01 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's kinda hard to feel sorry for countries that are the financial equivalent of some guy that borrowed shiatloads of money to buy a big house, a nice car and luxurious vacations, then whined that he had no money when all the bills came due.

Hasn't Greece been doing that shiat for decades?

Not that the people who loaned them money are much smarter.

Farkers hate individuals who do this but are totally cool with countries who do this.

umad

2012-02-10 01:21:46 PM

PowerSlacker: Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's kinda hard to feel sorry for countries that are the financial equivalent of some guy that borrowed shiatloads of money to buy a big house, a nice car and luxurious vacations, then whined that he had no money when all the bills came due.

Hasn't Greece been doing that shiat for decades?

Not that the people who loaned them money are much smarter.

Farkers hate individuals who do this but are totally cool with countries who do this.

I would bet a substantial amount of money that farkers that are cool with countries that do this are the same ones that bend over backwards to make excuses for individuals that do the same.

They are freaking out because their entire belief system is falling apart. They are seeing that when you get to a high enough level, you can't just keep borrowing your way out. I guess we just need to start borrowing from other planets or something so we can keep the party going.

Brontes

2012-02-10 01:23:09 PM

BBC was reporting unemployment is up over 20%. More cuts aren't going to help. They need to default and pull and Argentina.

Polly Ester

2012-02-10 01:25:30 PM

FarkedOver: The problem is (and this is not just a Greek problem) that to many concessions have been given to big business. The corporate tax rate in Greece in 2000 was 40%. In 2010 it was at 20%. The problem is business and they are the ones that should be hung out to dry for this. They caused the whole mess globally and they need to reap what they sow.

Bringing the Greek corporate tax rate down to a competitive level wasn't the problem. Not by a long shot.

Nadie_AZ

2012-02-10 01:26:18 PM

Default and drop out of the EU. Then restart.

See: Argentina.

Current Resident

2012-02-10 01:26:55 PM

Geez, they're Greek.

You'd think that they would be used to being butthurt.

FarkedOver

2012-02-10 01:30:14 PM

Polly Ester: FarkedOver: The problem is (and this is not just a Greek problem) that to many concessions have been given to big business. The corporate tax rate in Greece in 2000 was 40%. In 2010 it was at 20%. The problem is business and they are the ones that should be hung out to dry for this. They caused the whole mess globally and they need to reap what they sow.

Bringing the Greek corporate tax rate down to a competitive level wasn't the problem. Not by a long shot.

No, it's a worldwide problem. We've been letting these farkers skate for far too long.

snailbarf

2012-02-10 01:33:23 PM

DavidVincent: No snide comments from me. I live in California.

this.

Backwards Cornfield Races

2012-02-10 01:34:19 PM

I heard they're now offering bonds for 20 cents on the dollar.

My question is if they're offering these in two ply or three ply

namatad

2012-02-10 01:35:30 PM

Kazaa: START COLLECTING TAXES, NIMRODS.

we want to cheat on our taxes (I heard numbers in the 30% range for greece)
we want to retire early
we want great benefits

and we are surprised that our country is going bankrupt?

why are we trying to bail them out?
cant they just go to the banks and get a LOAN?
or sell bonds?

I guess no one wants to buy those unless they are backed by collateral or have crazy high interest rates.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

must suck to have only two choices
1) go bankrupt
2) obey the EU and germans

bahahahahahahahahahaah

11of12

2012-02-10 01:42:27 PM

vgacolor: Not surprisingly politicians everywhere are not willing to do things that are unpopular even if they are the right things to do.

Similar to the:

/we wont reform entitlements from the left

and

/any tax increases or loophole closing is off the table from the right

Are you trying to say that both the left and the right care more about keeping their cushy jobs than doing what is best for the country. That kind of talk won;t be accepted around here bub! Next thing you know you'll be expecting people to stop blindly following a political philosophy/party and start thinking for themselves. The very idea!

Debeo Summa Credo

2012-02-10 01:43:56 PM

Nadie_AZ: Default and drop out of the EU. Then restart.

See: Argentina.

Yeah, maybe. Growth prospects in Argentina made it a better bet for investors post devaluation/default. Greece, even after defaulting, will still be bringing nothing to the table. They'll probably have alot more trouble inducing once-burned investors to come back than Argentina did.

There really is no easy answer for Greece or the EU. If there were, it would have happened by now.

Infernalist

2012-02-10 01:45:05 PM

The Greeks want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to play Tax Evasion: The Home Edition and also get all their expensive perks and such, and it really doesn't work that way. If you want all the niceties of civilized society and such, then everyone has to contribute to that end. Those that don't are to blame for the mess that they're in.

It doesn't help that the corporate interests in Greece have massively lowered the tax rates for businesses, as if evading their taxes wasn't enough.

It's literally as if the worst of the GOP combined with the worst of the Democratic Party to form some obscene "No Taxes For Anyone!" frankenstein monster that expects society to function on wishes and unicorn farts.

groppet

2012-02-10 01:49:02 PM

So how much will you think they will sell the ruins of Sparta for?

Goodfella

2012-02-10 01:53:21 PM

Default is inevitable.

If you owe the bank $10,000, then you're in trouble.

If you owe the bank $100 billion, then the bank is in trouble.

G-Pap #2 is going to get run out of town by his own people if he isn't careful.

namatad

2012-02-10 01:55:29 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: There really is no easy answer for Greece or the EU. If there were, it would have happened by now.

the EU expects and requires its member countries to be adults.
the greeks are children.

the EU hopes that it wont have to punish one of its members and hopes greece will grow up and act like an adult.
the greeks are rioting in the street because they are petulant children.

EU will either have to spank the child or kick the child out of the house.
This will serve as a nice warning to portugal, italy and ireland: this could be you next.

children respect firm, fair authority.

Infernalist

2012-02-10 01:57:40 PM

namatad: Debeo Summa Credo: There really is no easy answer for Greece or the EU. If there were, it would have happened by now.

the EU expects and requires its member countries to be adults.
the greeks are children.

the EU hopes that it wont have to punish one of its members and hopes greece will grow up and act like an adult.
the greeks are rioting in the street because they are petulant children.

EU will either have to spank the child or kick the child out of the house.
This will serve as a nice warning to portugal, italy and ireland: this could be you next.

children respect firm, fair authority.

The mess in Greece is what happens when you treat Tax Evasion like a national sport. Take note, Conservatives: Taxes are a necessary evil.

ObeliskToucher

2012-02-10 01:59:43 PM

namatad: EU will either have to spank the child or kick the child out of the house.
This will serve as a nice warning to portugal, italy and ireland: this could be you next.

A key point -- it's not just about Greece...

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