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(The New York Times)   So can a Jehovah's Witness institution deny coverage for blood transfusions? Can a Hindu organization deny bovine based insulin? Can a Jewish or Muslim group deny porcine heart valves?   (opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 466
    More: Scary, Hindus, muslims, employment discrimination, Ohio Republican, insulin, Rob Portman, hospital system, institutions  
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5638 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Feb 2012 at 4:37 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-09 12:49:06 PM  
No.
 
2012-02-09 12:54:08 PM  
Among other things, I am morally opposed to money being spent on wars and capital punishment. And yet I am inexplicably forced to pay for these things through my taxes. And when I hire someone to work for me, I must pay a share of taxes for these things on their behalf as well. I demand that I be allowed a "conscience" exemption.

It truly does pain me to participate in these activities. I'm not kidding. But for some reason I'm forced to pay for many things the government does that appall me. But my conscience isn't given any special dispensation. And the funny thing is that Catholics who believe as I do -- and there are many --- aren't given any dispensation for those beliefs either. The only area where religion trumps citizenship is when it comes to private sexual behavior. Isn't that odd?

Link (new window)

It's all about the sex.
 
2012-02-09 12:54:53 PM  
The answer appears to be no. The religious institution can't force their workers to abide by the strictures of their faith through the manipulation of health insurance, it's up to the conscience of the individual to make the determination for him or herself.

That's excellent news for the 98% of Catholic women who use birth control.
 
2012-02-09 12:55:55 PM  
"The Obama administration has just told the Catholics of the United States, 'To Hell with you!' "


Can he please please please please say this to the muslims, jews, mormons, and all the other cults in this country that enjoy tax free status for no f**king reason other than that they worship a sky fairy?
 
2012-02-09 12:58:12 PM  

Backwards Cornfield Races: "The Obama administration has just told the Catholics of the United States, 'To Hell with you!' "


Can he please please please please say this to the muslims, jews, mormons, and all the other cults in this country that enjoy tax free status for no f**king reason other than that they worship a sky fairy?


I think he's already implied the "f*ck you" to the Southern Baptists.
 
2012-02-09 12:58:23 PM  
But those people are all going to hell anyway, so what difference does it make?
 
2012-02-09 12:59:23 PM  
You know, the ability to get a blood transfusion has little influence on actually getting one. For example, I've been able to get a transfusion my whole life and I never have.
 
2012-02-09 01:02:19 PM  
As an official spokesman of the Jewish World someone who knows what he's talking about:


We Jews are 100% fine with porcine heart valves, or any other life-saving operations that involve porcine products.

Thank you.
 
2012-02-09 01:02:47 PM  

GAT_00: You know, the ability to get a blood transfusion has little influence on actually getting one. For example, I've been able to get a transfusion my whole life and I never have.


Kieth Richards just looked scornfully in your direction.
 
2012-02-09 01:04:03 PM  
If animal-derived insulin is good enough for PETA's leadership, it should be good enough for Hindus.
 
2012-02-09 01:04:47 PM  

GAT_00: You know, the ability to get a blood transfusion has little influence on actually getting one. For example, I've been able to get a transfusion my whole life and I never have.


Really? Since Roe v. Wade made abortions legal I've been forced to have several. And since gay marriage became legal in New York I've been forced to gay marry TWICE!
 
2012-02-09 01:04:58 PM  
img576.imageshack.us
 
2012-02-09 01:07:19 PM  
Hey, you guys. I have an idea. Let's get a whole bunch of government money to open a Christian Scientist hospital. Provide no care, pocket all the bucks. It's also against our religious freedom to make us pay for health insurance for our few employees.

PROFIT!
 
2012-02-09 01:11:21 PM  
"The Obama administration has just told the Catholics of the United States, 'To Hell with you!' "


Totally. When I went Trick or Treating, the Obamas gave me this
www.monsterwax.com
 
2012-02-09 01:16:26 PM  
If only it was that simple.
 
2012-02-09 01:17:34 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: GAT_00: You know, the ability to get a blood transfusion has little influence on actually getting one. For example, I've been able to get a transfusion my whole life and I never have.

Really? Since Roe v. Wade made abortions legal I've been forced to have several. And since gay marriage became legal in New York I've been forced to gay marry TWICE!


And the six gay abortions you had to get because your Turtle husband forced you to...

/religion makes superstition and hate OKAY!
 
2012-02-09 01:19:02 PM  
This is an organization that believes that virgins can magically become pregnant. I'm not sure why we are respecting their views on women's health issues.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-02-09 01:22:09 PM  
So why should Muslims or Jews have to pay taxes if some of that might be used for food stamps for people who buy bacon?

Religious freedom is all about telling people who don't believe in you religion that they have to follow it anyway, right?
 
2012-02-09 01:22:32 PM  
It's almost as if there wasn't an already existing law on the books covering this.

Go be outraged somewhere else!
 
2012-02-09 01:26:28 PM  

vpb: So why should Muslims or Jews have to pay taxes if some of that might be used for food stamps for people who buy bacon?

Religious freedom is all about telling people who don't believe in you religion that they have to follow it anyway, right?


I'm just depressed that the Founders didn't anticipate this kind of conflict between religion and government. If only they had given us some guidance put it into the Constitution or something.
 
Byn
2012-02-09 01:28:35 PM  

vernonFL: This is an organization that believes that virgins can magically become pregnant. I'm not sure why we are respecting their views on women's health issues.


BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!
 
2012-02-09 01:31:34 PM  

SphericalTime: That's excellent news for the 98% of Catholic women who use birth control.


All of whom should be speaking out.

Why do people like me have to fight their battle for them?
 
2012-02-09 01:34:43 PM  

cman: If only it was that simple.


Then by all means, do elaborate.
 
2012-02-09 01:37:13 PM  
Seriously, it's old white men who are against birth control, that's all I hear. All these women sitting silently are going to reap what they sow... birth control is NOT cheap -- even when it's generic.

Where do they draw the line? No annual exams for anyone who isn't married since they "shouldn't" be having sex and therefore, won't have to worry about STDs or cervical cancer or any of that?

And what about the Catholics who have PCOS, PMDD, endemetriosis, painful/heavy periods, irregular periods, etc -- who use birth control as MEDICINE to treat those issue? Hell, even nuns can have horrible, painful menstrual cycles. When I was a teenager, my first day of my period was so bad and so heavy, I missed school one-two days a month as a result. Thanks to being raised Catholic, I wasn't on the pill to control it. I should have been, it would have improved my quality of life.
 
2012-02-09 01:38:37 PM  
Nobody gets Bovine insulin anymore, everyone uses recombinant human insulin made in e coli or yeast or something. They got the DNA from an aborted fetus though so that might be a problem.
 
2012-02-09 01:41:39 PM  

SphericalTime: it's up to the conscience of the individual to make the determination for him or herself.



This bears repeating!
 
2012-02-09 01:43:15 PM  
I like the way they're framing it as "forcing us to provide birth control"

/No, your insurance company is required to provide COVERAGE for it, no one is required to USE that coverage
//minor difference
 
2012-02-09 01:43:20 PM  
I work for a Christian Science Institution. It has great health coverage, but unfortunately not a single bit of it is allowed :(
 
2012-02-09 01:47:02 PM  

hillbillypharmacist: I work for a Christian Science Institution. It has great health coverage, but unfortunately not a single bit of it is allowed :(


There is no such thing as pre-existing to God. Just pray that pain away. You do have to give 10% in premiums though.
 
2012-02-09 01:48:26 PM  

serpent_sky: Seriously, it's old white men who are against birth control, that's all I hear. All these women sitting silently are going to reap what they sow... birth control is NOT cheap -- even when it's generic.


The old white men get their Viagra covered, and that's really all that a prescription drug plan should cover.

Women shouldn't be using birth control pills, no need to cover that. People wouldn't need things like blood pressure medication if they just attended church once in a while, so maybe that shouldn't be covered either. Viagra is an integral part of the education of altar boys, so it's necessary.
 
2012-02-09 01:49:44 PM  

I_C_Weener: There is no such thing as pre-existing to God. Just pray that pain away. You do have to give 10% in premiums though.


Honestly, I can't really complain- they hired me, but I don't have to actually dispense any medication. So I just cruise the politics threads all day.
 
2012-02-09 01:51:32 PM  

hillbillypharmacist: I work for a Christian Science Institution. It has great health coverage, but unfortunately not a single bit of it is allowed :(


+1
 
2012-02-09 01:53:02 PM  
It's a simple matter of contracts, you want to offer employment, you play by the rules of labor contracts.
 
2012-02-09 01:53:17 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I like the way they're framing it as "forcing us to provide birth control"

/No, your insurance company is required to provide COVERAGE for it, no one is required to USE that coverage
//minor difference


True dat. If you're hiring the right kind of people, they shouldn't want to use that coverage anyway. I'd say the Catholic schools and hospitals simply suffer from their own habit of hiring out of the 98% of people who use birth control.

However, I have a simple solution to the whole mess. Don't make ANY insurance company cover ANYTHING it doesn't want to. Then simply cover everyone in the US with a federal insurance plan that uses tax funds to provide those "controversial" coverages. I guarantee you that within a few years, the whole uninsured problem will be a thing of the past.

What? You don't want to pay for other people's contraception? See the second contribution in this thread. Then STFU.
 
2012-02-09 01:56:24 PM  
Since Roe v. Wade made abortions legal I've been forced to have several. And since gay marriage became legal in New York I've been forced to gay marry TWICE!

My gay rape baby personally muslim abortion three times pow in the socialismists.

Best part...forever
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-02-09 01:58:14 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I like the way they're framing it as "forcing us to provide birth control"

/No, your insurance company is required to provide COVERAGE for it, no one is required to USE that coverage
//minor difference


That's true. If their employees take the teachings of the church seriously, they they won't use it anyway. And we all know Catholic girls don't have pre-marital sex, right?
 
2012-02-09 01:59:41 PM  
If the Catholics want the exemption, looks like they'll have to get theirs the way everybody else does: massive juicy campaign contributions. Think of it as buying indulgences.
 
2012-02-09 01:59:58 PM  
Can a straw man factory refuse to cover a straw man whose straw has fallen out?
 
2012-02-09 02:01:00 PM  

Tatsuma: As an official spokesman of the Jewish World someone who knows what he's talking about:


We Jews are 100% fine with porcine heart valves, or any other life-saving operations that involve porcine products.

Thank you.


Well, that makes sense. I wouldn't object to a human organ transplant, but damn if I'll EAT one.
 
2012-02-09 02:02:53 PM  

vpb: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I like the way they're framing it as "forcing us to provide birth control"

/No, your insurance company is required to provide COVERAGE for it, no one is required to USE that coverage
//minor difference

That's true. If their employees take the teachings of the church seriously, they they won't use it anyway. And we all know Catholic girls don't have pre-marital sex, right?


Nothing that could result in pregnancy, certainly

/or so I have heard
 
2012-02-09 02:06:45 PM  
Catholics be getting all uppity.
 
2012-02-09 02:10:12 PM  
It looks to me like the only people complaining are people in Catholic leadership. You know, the people who swore an oath of celibacy to be in their positions.
 
2012-02-09 02:10:23 PM  

Gulper Eel: If the Catholics want the exemption, looks like they'll have to get theirs the way everybody else does: massive juicy campaign contributions. Think of it as buying indulgences.


Weren't they a Washington-based rock band consisting of Duke Cunningham, Jesse Helms, Mitch McConnell and John McCain? They were awesome at Burning Man.
 
2012-02-09 02:11:58 PM  

muck4doo: It looks to me like the only people complaining are people in Catholic leadership. You know, the people who swore an oath of celibacy to be in their positions.


That's "celibacy" with an asterisk, an asterisk that, oddly enough, may resemble a young boy's anus.
 
2012-02-09 02:12:02 PM  
As someone who knew a girl very close to me who was trapped in that farking cult, fark the Jehovah's Witnesses. Their refusal of blood transfusions for their children is only one of their backward ass offenses. But that's not really what this is about so I digress.
 
2012-02-09 02:12:47 PM  

muck4doo: It looks to me like the only people complaining are people in Catholic leadership. You know, the people who swore an oath of celibacy to be in their positions.


I take all my sex advice from people who have never had it. I have my car fixed by a mechanic who has never touched a car and in college, I made sure to take chemistry classes taught by professors who were morally foresworn from doing chemistry.
 
2012-02-09 02:20:37 PM  

NowhereMon: SphericalTime: it's up to the conscience of the individual to make the determination for him or herself.


This bears repeating!


Unfortunately, I actually heard a Representative from Long Island (NY) last night say this:

He was asked what about non-Catholic people that certainly work there and their rights. His answer? "They can get a job somewhere else, nobody makes them work there."

I wonder if he'd have the same answer for the Catholic doctor at a public hospital refusing an abortion or the morning after pill to a rape victim or a pharmacist refusing to dispense properly prescribed birth control.
 
2012-02-09 02:21:12 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: muck4doo: It looks to me like the only people complaining are people in Catholic leadership. You know, the people who swore an oath of celibacy to be in their positions.

That's "celibacy" with an asterisk, an asterisk that, oddly enough, may resemble a young boy's anus.


celibacy means not married, chaste means not screwing around.
 
2012-02-09 02:22:20 PM  

serpent_sky: Hell, even nuns can have horrible, painful menstrual cycles.


Maybe that's God's way of telling them to stop wasting their lives on being fervently unproductive god-botherers.
 
2012-02-09 02:24:02 PM  

Mugato: As someone who knew a girl very close to me who was trapped in that farking cult, fark the Jehovah's Witnesses. Their refusal of blood transfusions for their children is only one of their backward ass offenses. But that's not really what this is about so I digress.


There are some things I like about them, but that, and the whole "shunning" thing of people who leave is a bit extreme.
 
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