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(Yahoo)   Senators circulating resolution urging Obama not to try anything sensible like trying to "contain" a nuclear-armed Iran diplomatically the way we did the Soviet Union, but instead go straight to the bombs and tanks   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 51
    More: Sad, President Obama, Soviet Union, Iran, Joseph Lieberman, Yahoo News, isotope separation, countries by electricity production, Lindsey Graham  
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2128 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Feb 2012 at 1:21 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-02-09 12:53:01 PM
5 votes:
Korea has nukes. Not invaded.
Iraq does not. Invaded and occupied.
Pakistan has nukes. Not invaded.
Afghanistan does not. Invaded and occupied.
India has nukes. Not invaded and given 1/4 of all high tech jobs in the world.
Libya does not. Government overthrown.
Israel has nukes. Given endless sloppy blowjobs.

It seems to me that there's no downside to having nukes. Only an up side.
2012-02-09 01:47:20 PM
4 votes:
It's a completely cynical political ploy, because this is the only way to make Obama look weak in foreign affairs after he ended the war in Iraq and finally managed to kill bin Laden. "Fartbama is gonna let Iran get nukes!"

That's all this is about. The right has become so desperate to find ways to hurt Obama that they are, quite literally, willing to start a war.
2012-02-09 11:12:30 PM
3 votes:
The amassing of the Soviet power alerted free nations to a new danger of aggression. It compelled them in self-defense to spend unprecedented money and energy for armaments. It forced them to develop weapons of war now capable of inflicting instant and terrible punishment upon any aggressor.

It instilled in the free nations-and let none doubt this-the unshakable conviction that, as long as there persists a threat to freedom, they must, at any cost, remain armed, strong, and ready for the risk of war.

It inspired them-and let none doubt this-to attain a unity of purpose and will beyond the power of propaganda or pressure to break, now or ever.

There remained, however, one thing essentially unchanged and unaffected by Soviet conduct: the readiness of the free nations to welcome sincerely any genuine evidence of peaceful purpose enabling all peoples again to resume their common quest of just peace.

The free nations, most solemnly and repeatedly, have assured the Soviet Union that their firm association has never had any aggressive purpose whatsoever. Soviet leaders, however, have seemed to persuade themselves, or tried to persuade their people, otherwise.

And so it has come to pass that the Soviet Union itself has shared and suffered the very fears it has fostered in the rest of the world.

This has been the way of life forged by 8 years of fear and force.

What can the world, or any nation in it, hope for if no turning is found on this dread road?

The worst to be feared and the best to be expected can be simply stated.

The worst is atomic war.

The best would be this: a life of perpetual fear and tension; a burden of arms draining the wealthand the labor of all peoples; a wasting of strength that defies the American system or the Soviet system or any system to achieve true abundance and happiness for the peoples of this earth.

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.

This world in arms in not spending money alone.

It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.

The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities.

It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population.

It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals.

It is some 50 miles of concrete highway.

We pay for a single fighter with a half million bushels of wheat.

We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people.

This, I repeat, is the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking.

This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.


As applicable today as ever, thanks Ike.
2012-02-09 02:53:46 PM
3 votes:

Tatsuma: .


Go to hell, man.

I support Israel and her right to self-defense, but you are full of hate and fear and only succeeding in turning off people to your cause and people. STOP!
2012-02-09 02:41:16 PM
3 votes:

colithian: Yeah, fark all those diplomats and American citizens in Israel! Bomb them to hell! It's not like they're people or anything!

/sister is in Tel Aviv right now
//kinda scared
///all you farkers screaming "Death to Israel!" and "Death to the Evil Empire!" can please stfu.


Nobody wants Tel Aviv to be bombed, but we also don't want Tehran to be bombed. The optimal number of bombed cities is zero.
2012-02-09 01:35:24 PM
3 votes:

Tatsuma: The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.


Nah. The people in charge of Iran cherish their lives and are not looking for martyrdom, they want to maintain their wealth and power. They're looking for a distraction to keep the people from realizing their leaders are the cause of their problems. And as often has been a case "teh jews" are that distraction. So they fire the rhetoric up, blame every problem on "the zionists" and if they can convince angry young males to blow themselves up before they realize they've been misled and cause trouble for their leaders at home, all the better.

Actually killing off all the jews or getting rid of Isreal takes that distraction away.
2012-02-09 01:28:51 PM
3 votes:
I can't believe our representatives are marching into war again, and with more WMD shenanigans.
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Just kidding, I can totally believe it :-/
2012-02-09 01:25:34 PM
3 votes:
I am all for going to war with Iran as long as every senator and congressman who voted for the war gets a rifle and leads the charge. Otherwise they need to shut the fark up and stop killing our young adults for their own greed.
2012-02-09 09:06:58 PM
2 votes:
Getting really tired of the psychotically paranoid Israel first hawks and their chickenhawk American co-propagandists' attempts to force us to act stupidly and against our own self interests. It's completely unsubstantiated and evidence-devoid bullsh*t that the Iranian power structure live only for the destruction of Israel and don't care if they stay in power or doom their populace to certain death. They're a rational state actor as much as any other. Some bombastic, populist anti-Zionist rhetoric and quotes don't change that.

I've been a general vague supporter, however qualified, of Israel in the past but following them down this path is madness. F*ck 'em; we should burn our bridges and let them sort themselves out at this point. Yeah it sucks being a tiny country surrounded by enemies. Good thing you have nukes. I have no doubt of your irrational, paranoid, fundamentalist, and knee-jerk mindset leading to you using them preemptively in a paroxysmal fit of self-immolating rage and psychosis.
2012-02-09 06:26:36 PM
2 votes:
There are decent people in every country, which is why war should be the last option. More civilians were killed in Iraq then soldiers or insurgents. Ask yourself a question... Would you want to die because your government was being idiotic and picking a fight? Maybe if we manned up and admitted our mistakes in installing and supporting the shah of Iran, we wouldn't be in this situation. To punish others for our own foreign policy errors is extremely farked up. Anyone supporting war is supporting the killing of civilians, who probably don't like what their government is doing in the first place. Its like killing the hostages to arrest the criminals... it's completely asinine. I don't care if they have Stockholm syndrome, it is still wrong.
2012-02-09 03:09:16 PM
2 votes:

colithian: Yeah, fark all those diplomats and American citizens in Israel! Bomb them to hell! It's not like they're people or anything!

/sister is in Tel Aviv right now
//kinda scared
///all you farkers screaming "Death to Israel!" and "Death to the Evil Empire!" can please stfu.


So now there is a wordfilter on Fark that converts "Let Israel solve their own problems" to "Death to Israel!" What an odd thing for the mods to do.

/sarcasm

Now, what most of us ARE saying, is that Iran has had the CAPABILITY to seriously harm Israelis for years, yet they haven't done it. Perhaps they have a vested interest in the continued existence of Israel as a scapegoat for all the problems in Iran.

Did you know, in fact that the last Nation that Iran/Persia invaded was India, in 1738. Since then Iran has been invaded by: Russia, Britain, The USA, and Iraq. Not to mention there are strong implications that Mossad operates with impunity within Iran's borders performing everything from sabotage to espionage to outright assassination.

Israel is in no more danger today than it was 20 years ago.
2012-02-09 01:57:43 PM
2 votes:

ShawnDoc: Tatsuma: The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.

Nah. The people in charge of Iran cherish their lives and are not looking for martyrdom, they want to maintain their wealth and power. They're looking for a distraction to keep the people from realizing their leaders are the cause of their problems. And as often has been a case "teh jews" are that distraction. So they fire the rhetoric up, blame every problem on "the zionists" and if they can convince angry young males to blow themselves up before they realize they've been misled and cause trouble for their leaders at home, all the better.

Actually killing off all the jews or getting rid of Isreal takes that distraction away.


It's the same reason that Congress and will pass tons of Abortion restrictions now that Obama is president and Dems have a majority in the Senate, but passed exactly 0 when they had control of the presidency, both houses of Congress and the Supreme Court: because if they actually DID outlaw abortion, thousands of Catholic and evangelical voters would no longer have any compelling reason to support them
2012-02-09 01:48:04 PM
2 votes:

Tatsuma: The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.


Iran hasn't actually been sending off its own people as holy warriors, they've just been funding extremist groups in other countries which have politically convenient targets. Which is something that the US and Israel (second example for your benefit since this is where the thread is heading with you here anyhow) both have done on a regular basis. Well "have done" in the US's case, Israel's pretty unsubtle about still actively doing it.

I don't see Iran sending "settlers" into areas specifically forbidden by treaties with hostile political entities in an attempt to bait those entities into martyring them, either, or establishing an apartheid state (Christians do just fine in Iran, as, iirc, do Jews that don't have direct ties to Israel. Muslims in Israel? Forced into ghettoes).

Basically what I'm saying here is that Israel, or at least one of the primary ruling factions controlling Israel, is exactly the kind of batshiat theocracy you're describing, to a much greater extent than Iran, and they've held off on nuking the world just fine, thanks. Realpolitik is king even in looneyville, at least where weapons that can cause the US to glass your entire nation are concerned. We've damocles'd that issue pretty spectacularly, all Iran joining the nuclear club would do is let them have a real voice in the world government that they've been denied for some time.
2012-02-09 01:42:02 PM
2 votes:

Tatsuma: The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.


Then you guys should go ahead and bomb them if they are such a threat. Stop trying to get the US to do your dirty work. Israel has been saying Iran is a couple years away from having a nuclear bomb for 20 friggin' years now.
2012-02-09 01:38:05 PM
2 votes:
Ok, so it's like this:

The US military is going through a drastic reduction in force. A lot of people are getting the boot and a lot more are being barre from re/entering the service.

The economy is doing better, but it's not really good enough to support a surge of unemployed troops and recent graduates who banked on getting a gov. gig.

And we can't really justify a huge military and inflated defense budget when our only military action is Afghanistan + a few surgical drone/SF missions.

So what to do? Either extend the war in Afghanistan (Americans see no point), create a boogey-man (Osama is dead), or get involved where we're not really needed (Iran).

Honestly, I think that we could get involved in areas like Syria or most of Africa, but there's no economic gain there. War with Iran can not only be justified (omigawd nukes) but can secure beneficial trade agreements as well.

/adjusts tinfoil hat
//it's the latest style
2012-02-09 01:36:04 PM
2 votes:
Tatsuma: The difference between the USSR and the crazies in charge of Iran?

The people in charge of USSR were atheists who valued their power and lives more than anything else. The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.


herp derp

Apparently someone hasn't been watching the green revolution, or picked up a history book.

Irans ayatollahs are praying to their heathen gods that we bomb them and reignite the populations hatred for the West. Nothing better consolidates power than a big enemy coming in and threatening a nation. Even pro American forces would wane and fight with their brothers.

You people are clinical if you can't see it. Hell, most of you were ready to shoot a random Muslim after 9/11. It's the same fraking thing.
2012-02-09 01:26:52 PM
2 votes:
I saw Israel's ambassador being interviewed on Fox News (I know, I know, it was on the TV at my gym) a couple of days ago and he was laying it on with a trowel, claiming that Iran wants to "rule the Arab world" (uh, Iranians aren't Arabs).

fark Bibi. fark Likud. They are not worth a single American life, and if Obama tells Bibi and the right wing to pound sand over war with Iran, he's a hero.
2012-02-10 08:17:08 AM
1 votes:

Karac: Military option #1 - we bomb their nuclear production facilities.
Military option #2 - full scale boots-on-ground invasion until we manage to find the WMD's.

Now for option 1, it would be helpful to know exactly where those facilities are, and be actually able to damage them. I have serious doubts as to both issues. Option 2 - Iraq has 169,000 square miles and 30 million Iraqis, Iran has 637,000 square miles and 75 million citizens. Is anyone really wanting to take on a job between 2 and 4 times as big as Iraq? Are we supposed to believe that Iranians will rise up against the ayatollahs and then peacefully submit to an occupation? If getting rid of a madman like Saddam wasn't enough to buy peace in Iraq, why would getting rid of the ayatollahs do it in Iran.


Not to mention that, unlike Iraq, which was hastily carved out of the Ottoman Empire, Iran is an organically-formed country, and a very old one, at that. The resistance in Iran would make Iraq look like a park stroll on Saturday morning.
2012-02-09 07:26:39 PM
1 votes:

GleeUnit: Am I missing something here? What's the deal with the recent surge of manufactured 'desperate need' to start a war with Iran?

Is it really just that the MIC is getting hungry again? Because if so, that war is going to be pretty tough to sell to a weary country that just got out of one war less than four months ago and is still engaged in another. I would like to think we're collectively a lot more skeptical about "oh noes, WMDs!" after the Iraq debacle.

/Not that there aren't plenty of foaming-at-the-mouth retards who gobble that shiat up
//And not that it matters what we think anyway when there's money to be made


High-RWA personality types want warfare. They want to be the glorious underdog who saves the day.

This is not something we should ever encourage.
2012-02-09 06:25:19 PM
1 votes:
Forcing a war with Iran is just one of the tactics anti-Obama politicians are using as a weapon against him.

This is an election year. Conservatives have most likely realized that an unnecessary war--even a threatened one--for Israel's sake would divide the Democratic party. On one hand there are the pro-peace liberals, and on the other are pro-Israel voters. Obama can't really afford to lose either group. Or even make either group suspect he's abandoning them.

I also wonder at the timing of this. Many Republicans seemed to criticize Obama for not "doing more" to help the Iranian protesters during the Green Revolution marches (even though US involvement would have discredited the protesters).

Now, suddenly, many of the same Republicans want to attack Iran, an action that would drive the average Iranian straight into the arms of the government that they were protesting in '09.

Are they attempting to preempt any more anti-authority protests? I can't help but compare that to the timing of the Occupy crackdowns.

Just a few thoughts. Curious to hear others' views on this.
2012-02-09 06:24:49 PM
1 votes:
mikeely.files.wordpress.com

They're the same war! Doesn't anyone notice this?! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
2012-02-09 04:58:16 PM
1 votes:

RyogaM: Obama should refuse to use anything other than diplomatic means in dealing with Iran until the Congress gets some skin in the game by first, declaring war against Iran, second, by ensuring that at least the first trillion dollars of the war are paid for by raised taxes or spending cuts, and three, authorizing a draft to ensure that there are enough able bodies on the field to make. If the Congressional Republicans believe Iran is a serious threat, then they should act like it.


Oh, fark that.

Ensuring the entirety of the war is paid for and fought by the people in whose best interests the war is: the 1%. No drafts, no poor and middle-class Americans sent off to die in a war against their own interest let alone having nothing to do with the defense of this country.
2012-02-09 04:19:31 PM
1 votes:
Dear all those advocating US involvement:


www.GoArmy.com
2012-02-09 03:18:49 PM
1 votes:
Why don't these founding fellating consititutional 'orginalist' look more often to the words of those that actually wrote the farking Contiution?

Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.

--Some peacnik hippie whose wife bakes HoHos and other snack cakes I think.


Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none; the support of the State governments in all their rights, as the most competent administrations for our domestic concerns and the surest bulwarks against antirepublican tendencies; the preservation of the General Government in its whole constitutional vigor, as the sheet anchor of our peace at home and safety abroad; a jealous care of the right of election by the people -- a mild and safe corrective of abuses which are lopped by the sword of revolution where peaceable remedies are unprovided; absolute acquiescence in the decisions of the majority, the vital principle of republics, from which is no appeal but to force, the vital principle and immediate parent of despotism; a well-disciplined militia, our best reliance in peace and for the first moments of war till regulars may relieve them; the supremacy of the civil over the military authority; economy in the public expense, that labor may be lightly burthened; the honest payment of our debts and sacred preservation of the public faith; encouragement of agriculture, and of commerce as its handmaid; the diffusion of information and arraignment of all abuses at the bar of the public reason; freedom of religion; freedom of the press, and freedom of person under the protection of the habeas corpus, and trial by juries impartially selected

Some obvious anti-semite that I believe owns a small dry cleaning chains and lives in a de-luxe apartment in the sky.

So we are preparing to enter another war, in no small part due to an alliance of increasingly questionable value, after 10 years of war in which we increased debt and decreased liberty at home. Who could have seen such things happening? I wish they would have warned us!
2012-02-09 03:01:02 PM
1 votes:

James!:

The optimal number of bombed cities is zero.


Agreed.
This is the message that extremists on both sides can't seem to understand.

Most of us have had enough of war for a generation or so. Were burnt out and broke from the effort.
2012-02-09 02:50:44 PM
1 votes:

colithian: Yeah, fark all those diplomats and American citizens in Israel! Bomb them to hell! It's not like they're people or anything!

/sister is in Tel Aviv right now
//kinda scared
///all you farkers screaming "Death to Israel!" and "Death to the Evil Empire!" can please stfu.


I feel like I must be reading an entirely different thread than you are.
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-02-09 02:40:30 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: The difference between the USSR and the crazies in charge of Iran?

The people in charge of USSR were atheists who valued their power and lives more than anything else. The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.


I remember hearing similar things about the "godless communists". And about Muslims in general.
2012-02-09 02:18:55 PM
1 votes:
There is no appetite for another war within the majority of the American public.

Tel Aviv would have to be a smoking crater to get Americans on board invading Iran.

I don't think the Israelis are willing to use one of their own nukes to implicate Iran.

I do think they are willing to start a war to stop them from getting 70 year old technology.
2012-02-09 02:17:00 PM
1 votes:
Yes, because ramping up the war in Afghanistan, invading Pakistani airspace for drone attacks, killing OBL in Pakistan, bombing in Yemen, bombing Libya, sending in SEALs to rescue hostages in pirates and Somali kidnappers, it's obvious Obama is a pacifist.
2012-02-09 02:15:01 PM
1 votes:
Meanwhile our school systems continue to deteriorate.
2012-02-09 02:14:20 PM
1 votes:
Tatsuma is calling someone a crazed fundamentalist.

Read that sentence a couple of times.
2012-02-09 02:10:42 PM
1 votes:
Also, Israel has been worried about Iran's nuclear program for 20 years or more. They've been 6 months or so away from a bomb forever.

This thread is no different.
2012-02-09 02:07:26 PM
1 votes:
How long until McCain joins his chickenhawk buddies Graham and Lieberman? These retards have been beating the drum for war with Iran for 4 years.

Iraq and Afghanistan are winding down. The military industrial complex needs to spend money somewhere.
2012-02-09 02:03:05 PM
1 votes:
It's about the oil. And, it always will be.
2012-02-09 02:01:00 PM
1 votes:
Why don't we just tell Iran that if they stop their enrichment process, we'll join them in a joint research project developing thorium reactors (initially more expensive, but once you have multiples up and running it gets cheaper). Thorium is much harder to pull weapons grade material from, doesn't need to be enriched, produces less long-term radioactivity...and then the US gets a testbed for Thorium reactors outside the whole NIMBY thing and gets to prove they work. Plus we can keep a nice close eye on Iran.

Granted, they'll more then likely refuse, but hey, nice offers first.
2012-02-09 01:59:01 PM
1 votes:
Military option #1 - we bomb their nuclear production facilities.
Military option #2 - full scale boots-on-ground invasion until we manage to find the WMD's.

Now for option 1, it would be helpful to know exactly where those facilities are, and be actually able to damage them. I have serious doubts as to both issues. Option 2 - Iraq has 169,000 square miles and 30 million Iraqis, Iran has 637,000 square miles and 75 million citizens. Is anyone really wanting to take on a job between 2 and 4 times as big as Iraq? Are we supposed to believe that Iranians will rise up against the ayatollahs and then peacefully submit to an occupation? If getting rid of a madman like Saddam wasn't enough to buy peace in Iraq, why would getting rid of the ayatollahs do it in Iran.
2012-02-09 01:55:38 PM
1 votes:

Here Comes Everybody: I saw Israel's ambassador being interviewed on Fox News (I know, I know, it was on the TV at my gym) a couple of days ago and he was laying it on with a trowel, claiming that Iran wants to "rule the Arab world" (uh, Iranians aren't Arabs).

fark Bibi. fark Likud. They are not worth a single American life, and if Obama tells Bibi and the right wing to pound sand over war with Iran, he's a hero.




Except there are already British SAS forces fighting in Syria right now along side the rebels, and very likely, US special forces as well. And Russian Spetznaz fighting alongside the Syrian army.


Hmmm, we pull tens of thousands of troops out of Afghanistan while at the same time parking an aircraft carrier group right off the coast of Israel and Hormuz. Nope, nothing suspicious about that.

Basically its a proxy war right now between the Brits, US, Israel and Syrian rebels vs the Syrian government, Iran, and Russia. Hopefully no US or British units kill any Russians or this could get hot.
2012-02-09 01:55:07 PM
1 votes:

ShawnDoc: Tatsuma: The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.

Nah. The people in charge of Iran cherish their lives and are not looking for martyrdom, they want to maintain their wealth and power. They're looking for a distraction to keep the people from realizing their leaders are the cause of their problems. And as often has been a case "teh jews" are that distraction. So they fire the rhetoric up, blame every problem on "the zionists" and if they can convince angry young males to blow themselves up before they realize they've been misled and cause trouble for their leaders at home, all the better.

Actually killing off all the jews or getting rid of Isreal takes that distraction away.



^ Recursive ursines.

Any Iranian leader that actually wanted "martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power" would be dead by now. The rest have a deeply vested personal interest in going on living, and the sense to want nukes as a bargaining chip rather than an ultimate grade of suicide bomb. Genuine fanatics and motivational hype go up front, manipulators and forward planning sit watchfully in the back.
2012-02-09 01:52:06 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: The difference between the USSR and the crazies in charge of Iran?

The people in charge of USSR were atheists who valued their power and lives more than anything else. The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.


If this were true, they would have acted VERY differently over the last 10 years. You've exaggerated and created caricatures of Iran in your mind. Amadinnerjacket is a dangerous idiot, as is much of their government. They are not, however, war mongers and slobbering fundies who are trying to burn the world down.

I'm all for stopping Iran. but dropping the hammer as we've so eloquently done over the last decade isn't going to do the trick. Two wars, nearly a trillion dollars in unbudgeted expenditures, 5,000 soldiers killed, massive drop in citizen and solider morale, netting nearly zero useful accomplishments while toppling two governments and leaving awful power vacuums and massive internal violence, stirring up already strong anti-American sentiment in the region.....

So let's do it all over again in the country between the two we already shredded? Screw that. Blockade and sanction them until either they give in and allow the dismantling of their nuclear program, or their people revolt and tear the government down. We haven't paid for our last two wars which have driven us into the ground financially. Let's not do this again. There are other ways that are much cheaper, and won't create 500,000 destitute, starving terrorists who now have a blood and bones reason to attack us.
2012-02-09 01:46:32 PM
1 votes:
I am so farking tired of that entire part of the world. How about we put a moratorium on American soldiers dying in the desert until MINIMUM 2025.

I mean, hell, Israel is REALLY good at assassinating valuable targets, where does the religious leadership of Iran hang out most of the time? How hard could it be to have a spy on a motorcycle stick a bomb to their limo or whatever? Why does the US need to be involved?

From now on, you stir up the shiat, the clean it up.
2012-02-09 01:44:42 PM
1 votes:
Am I missing something here? What's the deal with the recent surge of manufactured 'desperate need' to start a war with Iran?

Is it really just that the MIC is getting hungry again? Because if so, that war is going to be pretty tough to sell to a weary country that just got out of one war less than four months ago and is still engaged in another. I would like to think we're collectively a lot more skeptical about "oh noes, WMDs!" after the Iraq debacle.

/Not that there aren't plenty of foaming-at-the-mouth retards who gobble that shiat up
//And not that it matters what we think anyway when there's money to be made
2012-02-09 01:41:49 PM
1 votes:
remind me again where does it say that the US needs to be isarel's shabbos goy.

you know tats, i dont agree with israel's methods altho i kind of understand why they're very defensive and willing to go in the offensive - but why do you guys have the need to drag the US into what's clearly your own goddamn fight.
2012-02-09 01:35:28 PM
1 votes:

Kazrath: I am all for going to war with Iran as long as every senator and congressman who voted for the war gets a rifle and leads the charge. Otherwise they need to shut the fark up and stop killing our young adults for their own greed.


This

Unless you're currently serving or have served, you don't get to decide who we go to war with or when we go to war unless we're under attack. Why can't they pass that bill
2012-02-09 01:29:53 PM
1 votes:

MindStalker: Marcus Aurelius: Korea has nukes. Not invaded.
Iraq does not. Invaded and occupied.
Pakistan has nukes. Not invaded.
Afghanistan does not. Invaded and occupied.
India has nukes. Not invaded and given 1/4 of all high tech jobs in the world.
Libya does not. Government overthrown.
Israel has nukes. Given endless sloppy blowjobs.

It seems to me that there's no downside to having nukes. Only an up side.

For the most part the countries with Nukes are advanced technically and socially and we don't see them as a threat. NK and Pakistan are slight oddballs in that group, but I suspect its because we don't see them as a direct threat to the US.


NK was part of the axis of evil before they had nukes, afterword not so much.
2012-02-09 01:28:41 PM
1 votes:
Oh for f*ck's sake.

These men should take up arms and lead their own armies if they really want to do this. Maybe Israel can loan them some men.
2012-02-09 01:27:51 PM
1 votes:
Seriously. What the fark is going on?

Marcus Aurelius: It seems to me that there's no downside to having nukes. Only an up side.


Also this. Nuclear weapons would simultaneously prevent an American invasion and make Iran the most powerful country in the Middle East. Their whole program is aimed at Saudi Arabia, IMO; now that Iraq is out of the picture, Saudi Arabia is basically the only nation that can challenge Iran for regional hegemony.

Obviously I'm skipping Israel, because they're not an Arab country, and by and large want to be left alone.
2012-02-09 01:27:46 PM
1 votes:

tallguywithglasseson: James!: Then why haven't they bombed the shiat out of Israel already? Nuclear weapons aren't magic, regular bombs work kill just as well.

Because they're cunning, right up until they're crazy. That's why we, the rational actors, need to bomb them now, before they start acting crazy.


They've been crazy suicidal Israel haters thirsting for martyrdom for 33 years now, what are they waiting for?
2012-02-09 01:25:58 PM
1 votes:

James!: Then why haven't they bombed the shiat out of Israel already? Nuclear weapons aren't magic, regular bombs work kill just as well.


Because they're cunning, right up until they're crazy. That's why we, the rational actors, need to bomb them now, before they start acting crazy.
2012-02-09 01:09:35 PM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: The difference between the USSR and the crazies in charge of Iran?

The people in charge of USSR were atheists who valued their power and lives more than anything else. The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.


Then why haven't they bombed the shiat out of Israel already? Nuclear weapons aren't magic, regular bombs work kill just as well.
2012-02-09 01:05:10 PM
1 votes:
The difference between the USSR and the crazies in charge of Iran?

The people in charge of USSR were atheists who valued their power and lives more than anything else. The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.
2012-02-09 12:46:04 PM
1 votes:

tallguywithglasseson: A bipartisan group of senators--Bob Casey (D-Penn.), Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) and Joseph Lieberman (I-Conn.)

*sigh*
Almost forgot Lieberman was still serving... thanks for the reminder, Joe.


fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com

Joe Lieberman is a dick.
 
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