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(Yahoo)   Senators circulating resolution urging Obama not to try anything sensible like trying to "contain" a nuclear-armed Iran diplomatically the way we did the Soviet Union, but instead go straight to the bombs and tanks   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 148
    More: Sad, President Obama, Soviet Union, Iran, Joseph Lieberman, Yahoo News, isotope separation, countries by electricity production, Lindsey Graham  
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2128 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Feb 2012 at 1:21 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-09 12:38:48 PM
A bipartisan group of senators--Bob Casey (D-Penn.), Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) and Joseph Lieberman (I-Conn.)

*sigh*
Almost forgot Lieberman was still serving... thanks for the reminder, Joe.
 
2012-02-09 12:46:04 PM

tallguywithglasseson: A bipartisan group of senators--Bob Casey (D-Penn.), Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) and Joseph Lieberman (I-Conn.)

*sigh*
Almost forgot Lieberman was still serving... thanks for the reminder, Joe.


fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com

Joe Lieberman is a dick.
 
2012-02-09 12:53:01 PM
Korea has nukes. Not invaded.
Iraq does not. Invaded and occupied.
Pakistan has nukes. Not invaded.
Afghanistan does not. Invaded and occupied.
India has nukes. Not invaded and given 1/4 of all high tech jobs in the world.
Libya does not. Government overthrown.
Israel has nukes. Given endless sloppy blowjobs.

It seems to me that there's no downside to having nukes. Only an up side.
 
2012-02-09 01:05:10 PM
The difference between the USSR and the crazies in charge of Iran?

The people in charge of USSR were atheists who valued their power and lives more than anything else. The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.
 
2012-02-09 01:09:35 PM

Tatsuma: The difference between the USSR and the crazies in charge of Iran?

The people in charge of USSR were atheists who valued their power and lives more than anything else. The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.


Then why haven't they bombed the shiat out of Israel already? Nuclear weapons aren't magic, regular bombs work kill just as well.
 
2012-02-09 01:20:50 PM

James!: Nuclear weapons aren't magic


They're box office magic.
 
2012-02-09 01:24:49 PM

sigdiamond2000: James!: Nuclear weapons aren't magic

They're box office magic.


Highest grossing film of all time.

t0.gstatic.com
 
2012-02-09 01:25:34 PM
I am all for going to war with Iran as long as every senator and congressman who voted for the war gets a rifle and leads the charge. Otherwise they need to shut the fark up and stop killing our young adults for their own greed.
 
2012-02-09 01:25:43 PM

Tatsuma: The difference between the USSR and the crazies in charge of Iran?

The people in charge of USSR were atheists who valued their power and lives more than anything else. The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.


Oh, it's you.

This thread never had a chance.
 
2012-02-09 01:25:58 PM

James!: Then why haven't they bombed the shiat out of Israel already? Nuclear weapons aren't magic, regular bombs work kill just as well.


Because they're cunning, right up until they're crazy. That's why we, the rational actors, need to bomb them now, before they start acting crazy.
 
2012-02-09 01:26:00 PM
What about approaching Iran with Love, Peace and Mutual Respect instead?
That's like, totally, not containment.
 
2012-02-09 01:26:52 PM
I saw Israel's ambassador being interviewed on Fox News (I know, I know, it was on the TV at my gym) a couple of days ago and he was laying it on with a trowel, claiming that Iran wants to "rule the Arab world" (uh, Iranians aren't Arabs).

fark Bibi. fark Likud. They are not worth a single American life, and if Obama tells Bibi and the right wing to pound sand over war with Iran, he's a hero.
 
2012-02-09 01:27:32 PM
The fark is wrong with these people?
 
2012-02-09 01:27:46 PM

tallguywithglasseson: James!: Then why haven't they bombed the shiat out of Israel already? Nuclear weapons aren't magic, regular bombs work kill just as well.

Because they're cunning, right up until they're crazy. That's why we, the rational actors, need to bomb them now, before they start acting crazy.


They've been crazy suicidal Israel haters thirsting for martyrdom for 33 years now, what are they waiting for?
 
2012-02-09 01:27:51 PM
Seriously. What the fark is going on?

Marcus Aurelius: It seems to me that there's no downside to having nukes. Only an up side.


Also this. Nuclear weapons would simultaneously prevent an American invasion and make Iran the most powerful country in the Middle East. Their whole program is aimed at Saudi Arabia, IMO; now that Iraq is out of the picture, Saudi Arabia is basically the only nation that can challenge Iran for regional hegemony.

Obviously I'm skipping Israel, because they're not an Arab country, and by and large want to be left alone.
 
2012-02-09 01:28:15 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Korea has nukes. Not invaded.
Iraq does not. Invaded and occupied.
Pakistan has nukes. Not invaded.
Afghanistan does not. Invaded and occupied.
India has nukes. Not invaded and given 1/4 of all high tech jobs in the world.
Libya does not. Government overthrown.
Israel has nukes. Given endless sloppy blowjobs.

It seems to me that there's no downside to having nukes. Only an up side.


For the most part the countries with Nukes are advanced technically and socially and we don't see them as a threat. NK and Pakistan are slight oddballs in that group, but I suspect its because we don't see them as a direct threat to the US.
 
2012-02-09 01:28:41 PM
Oh for f*ck's sake.

These men should take up arms and lead their own armies if they really want to do this. Maybe Israel can loan them some men.
 
2012-02-09 01:28:51 PM
I can't believe our representatives are marching into war again, and with more WMD shenanigans.
.
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.
.
.
.
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Just kidding, I can totally believe it :-/
 
2012-02-09 01:29:29 PM

Tatsuma: The difference between the USSR and the crazies in charge of Iran?

(. . .) have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.


Iran has a lot on common with the US.
 
2012-02-09 01:29:49 PM

James!: They've been crazy suicidal Israel haters thirsting for martyrdom for 33 years now, what are they waiting for?


President Barack Hussein Obama, duh.
 
2012-02-09 01:29:53 PM

MindStalker: Marcus Aurelius: Korea has nukes. Not invaded.
Iraq does not. Invaded and occupied.
Pakistan has nukes. Not invaded.
Afghanistan does not. Invaded and occupied.
India has nukes. Not invaded and given 1/4 of all high tech jobs in the world.
Libya does not. Government overthrown.
Israel has nukes. Given endless sloppy blowjobs.

It seems to me that there's no downside to having nukes. Only an up side.

For the most part the countries with Nukes are advanced technically and socially and we don't see them as a threat. NK and Pakistan are slight oddballs in that group, but I suspect its because we don't see them as a direct threat to the US.


NK was part of the axis of evil before they had nukes, afterword not so much.
 
2012-02-09 01:31:26 PM
Won't somebody think of the military industrial complex??!!
 
2012-02-09 01:31:28 PM

tallguywithglasseson: James!: They've been crazy suicidal Israel haters thirsting for martyrdom for 33 years now, what are they waiting for?

President Barack Hussein Obama, duh.


It all makes sense! Iran needed a Kenyan in power in America to something something DESTROY! ISRAEL!

How have I been so blind?
 
2012-02-09 01:34:00 PM

tallguywithglasseson: A bipartisan group of senators--Bob Casey (D-Penn.), Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) and Joseph Lieberman (I-Conn.)

*sigh*
Almost forgot Lieberman was still serving... thanks for the reminder, Joe.



I'm totally shocked, SHOCKED I SAY, that Lieberman would want to wipe Iran off the map.
 
2012-02-09 01:34:06 PM
Just another part of the "Bomb Iran!" Israeli ad blitz this week.
 
2012-02-09 01:35:24 PM

Tatsuma: The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.


Nah. The people in charge of Iran cherish their lives and are not looking for martyrdom, they want to maintain their wealth and power. They're looking for a distraction to keep the people from realizing their leaders are the cause of their problems. And as often has been a case "teh jews" are that distraction. So they fire the rhetoric up, blame every problem on "the zionists" and if they can convince angry young males to blow themselves up before they realize they've been misled and cause trouble for their leaders at home, all the better.

Actually killing off all the jews or getting rid of Isreal takes that distraction away.
 
2012-02-09 01:35:28 PM

Kazrath: I am all for going to war with Iran as long as every senator and congressman who voted for the war gets a rifle and leads the charge. Otherwise they need to shut the fark up and stop killing our young adults for their own greed.


This

Unless you're currently serving or have served, you don't get to decide who we go to war with or when we go to war unless we're under attack. Why can't they pass that bill
 
2012-02-09 01:36:04 PM
Tatsuma: The difference between the USSR and the crazies in charge of Iran?

The people in charge of USSR were atheists who valued their power and lives more than anything else. The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.


herp derp

Apparently someone hasn't been watching the green revolution, or picked up a history book.

Irans ayatollahs are praying to their heathen gods that we bomb them and reignite the populations hatred for the West. Nothing better consolidates power than a big enemy coming in and threatening a nation. Even pro American forces would wane and fight with their brothers.

You people are clinical if you can't see it. Hell, most of you were ready to shoot a random Muslim after 9/11. It's the same fraking thing.
 
2012-02-09 01:36:58 PM
As soon as I opened the page and saw a pictuere of those two dicks I closed it. I'm eating lunch. I don't feel like getting pissed.

/I despise Joe Lieberman.
 
2012-02-09 01:38:05 PM
Ok, so it's like this:

The US military is going through a drastic reduction in force. A lot of people are getting the boot and a lot more are being barre from re/entering the service.

The economy is doing better, but it's not really good enough to support a surge of unemployed troops and recent graduates who banked on getting a gov. gig.

And we can't really justify a huge military and inflated defense budget when our only military action is Afghanistan + a few surgical drone/SF missions.

So what to do? Either extend the war in Afghanistan (Americans see no point), create a boogey-man (Osama is dead), or get involved where we're not really needed (Iran).

Honestly, I think that we could get involved in areas like Syria or most of Africa, but there's no economic gain there. War with Iran can not only be justified (omigawd nukes) but can secure beneficial trade agreements as well.

/adjusts tinfoil hat
//it's the latest style
 
2012-02-09 01:41:31 PM
It's a shame Liebermann is leaving the Senate. he was one of my favorite Senators.
 
2012-02-09 01:41:44 PM

Kazrath: I am all for going to war with Iran as long as every senator and congressman who voted for the war gets a rifle and leads

sends their children to lead the charge. Otherwise they need to shut the fark up and stop killing our young adults for their own greed.

A) Most of them are so old, that dying that way is not such a big threat.
B) It's one thing to die for your country, it's another to be at home and get a call from a military bigwig offering his condolences for your loss. they need to be here and take the call and live with the decision. Death is too easy a way out of these types of calls.
 
2012-02-09 01:41:49 PM
remind me again where does it say that the US needs to be isarel's shabbos goy.

you know tats, i dont agree with israel's methods altho i kind of understand why they're very defensive and willing to go in the offensive - but why do you guys have the need to drag the US into what's clearly your own goddamn fight.
 
2012-02-09 01:42:02 PM

Tatsuma: The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.


Then you guys should go ahead and bomb them if they are such a threat. Stop trying to get the US to do your dirty work. Israel has been saying Iran is a couple years away from having a nuclear bomb for 20 friggin' years now.
 
2012-02-09 01:44:17 PM

Tatsuma: The difference between the USSR and the crazies in charge of Iran?

The people in charge of USSR were atheists who valued their power and lives more than anything else. The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.


Ok, let's first assume you are right that Iran will immediately use a nuke the moment they get it (unlikely, but let's assume so). Let's also assume that they are really working on it (seems likely, but still not proven). Let's also assume they are anywhere near getting one (completely unknown). Let's also assume they have a delivery method (possible they have a missile capable of hitting Israel, highly unlikely they have a missile capable of hitting the US, although I guess they could just smuggle it in on a boat).

Then, you have to assume that attacking them we will actually stop them from building it (unlikely; maybe we will slow them down, but that's probably it). Then, you have to assume that Iran won't respond from the attack (they absolutely will). Now, you have to factor in the total number of deaths from the response versus the chances that all the other assumtions are correct times the total number of deaths from an attack.

That is, let's say we (or the Israelis) attack them. Even if you assume we destroy their nuke program, assuming it exists, and assuming that it was going anywhere, and assuming that they were planning on bombing somebody once they got the nukes, they almost certainly will counter-attack in some fashion.

If you average out all the assumptions there, attacking Iran will likely kill more Israelis and/or Americans than not attacking them.
 
2012-02-09 01:44:42 PM
Am I missing something here? What's the deal with the recent surge of manufactured 'desperate need' to start a war with Iran?

Is it really just that the MIC is getting hungry again? Because if so, that war is going to be pretty tough to sell to a weary country that just got out of one war less than four months ago and is still engaged in another. I would like to think we're collectively a lot more skeptical about "oh noes, WMDs!" after the Iraq debacle.

/Not that there aren't plenty of foaming-at-the-mouth retards who gobble that shiat up
//And not that it matters what we think anyway when there's money to be made
 
2012-02-09 01:45:31 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: As soon as I opened the page and saw a pictuere of those two dicks I closed it. I'm eating lunch. I don't feel like getting pissed.

/I despise Joe Lieberman.


As a Pennsylvanian, I would like to personally apologize for Bob Casey. That guy has been a colossal disappointment (it was his vote that prevented an override of Bush's veto of federal stem-cell research funding... and now this). On the other hand, keep in mind that the alternative was Rick Santorum. So lesser of two evils.
 
2012-02-09 01:46:32 PM
I am so farking tired of that entire part of the world. How about we put a moratorium on American soldiers dying in the desert until MINIMUM 2025.

I mean, hell, Israel is REALLY good at assassinating valuable targets, where does the religious leadership of Iran hang out most of the time? How hard could it be to have a spy on a motorcycle stick a bomb to their limo or whatever? Why does the US need to be involved?

From now on, you stir up the shiat, the clean it up.
 
2012-02-09 01:46:32 PM
I hate to sound like a liberal pussy, but let's give assassinations and terror bombings more time to work before we actually invade.
 
2012-02-09 01:47:20 PM
It's a completely cynical political ploy, because this is the only way to make Obama look weak in foreign affairs after he ended the war in Iraq and finally managed to kill bin Laden. "Fartbama is gonna let Iran get nukes!"

That's all this is about. The right has become so desperate to find ways to hurt Obama that they are, quite literally, willing to start a war.
 
2012-02-09 01:47:51 PM
What people looking to martyr themselves look like.

www.spiked-online.com

/hot like Iran's glass parking lot.
 
2012-02-09 01:48:04 PM

Tatsuma: The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.


Iran hasn't actually been sending off its own people as holy warriors, they've just been funding extremist groups in other countries which have politically convenient targets. Which is something that the US and Israel (second example for your benefit since this is where the thread is heading with you here anyhow) both have done on a regular basis. Well "have done" in the US's case, Israel's pretty unsubtle about still actively doing it.

I don't see Iran sending "settlers" into areas specifically forbidden by treaties with hostile political entities in an attempt to bait those entities into martyring them, either, or establishing an apartheid state (Christians do just fine in Iran, as, iirc, do Jews that don't have direct ties to Israel. Muslims in Israel? Forced into ghettoes).

Basically what I'm saying here is that Israel, or at least one of the primary ruling factions controlling Israel, is exactly the kind of batshiat theocracy you're describing, to a much greater extent than Iran, and they've held off on nuking the world just fine, thanks. Realpolitik is king even in looneyville, at least where weapons that can cause the US to glass your entire nation are concerned. We've damocles'd that issue pretty spectacularly, all Iran joining the nuclear club would do is let them have a real voice in the world government that they've been denied for some time.
 
2012-02-09 01:48:20 PM

GleeUnit: Am I missing something here? What's the deal with the recent surge of manufactured 'desperate need' to start a war with Iran?

Is it really just that the MIC is getting hungry again?


It's an election year; I suspect the GOP is desperately trying to reclaim the "tough on national security" mantle.
 
2012-02-09 01:50:36 PM

GleeUnit: Am I missing something here? What's the deal with the recent surge of manufactured 'desperate need' to start a war with Iran?


My theory is that our soldiers have been genetically altered into mindless murder machines by a shady government program partnered with the RAND corporation. The only people who know are former Bush Pentagon officials who are desperately trying to keep them away at war so that Americans aren't eaten alive by these monster-soldiers.
 
2012-02-09 01:51:18 PM
As long as they put in the bill that these same senators, along with their sons and daughters, lead the first charge into Tehran, yes, sounds like a good plan.
 
2012-02-09 01:52:06 PM

Tatsuma: The difference between the USSR and the crazies in charge of Iran?

The people in charge of USSR were atheists who valued their power and lives more than anything else. The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.


If this were true, they would have acted VERY differently over the last 10 years. You've exaggerated and created caricatures of Iran in your mind. Amadinnerjacket is a dangerous idiot, as is much of their government. They are not, however, war mongers and slobbering fundies who are trying to burn the world down.

I'm all for stopping Iran. but dropping the hammer as we've so eloquently done over the last decade isn't going to do the trick. Two wars, nearly a trillion dollars in unbudgeted expenditures, 5,000 soldiers killed, massive drop in citizen and solider morale, netting nearly zero useful accomplishments while toppling two governments and leaving awful power vacuums and massive internal violence, stirring up already strong anti-American sentiment in the region.....

So let's do it all over again in the country between the two we already shredded? Screw that. Blockade and sanction them until either they give in and allow the dismantling of their nuclear program, or their people revolt and tear the government down. We haven't paid for our last two wars which have driven us into the ground financially. Let's not do this again. There are other ways that are much cheaper, and won't create 500,000 destitute, starving terrorists who now have a blood and bones reason to attack us.
 
2012-02-09 01:55:07 PM

ShawnDoc: Tatsuma: The people in charge of Iran are crazed fundamentalists who cherish martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power, have said so for years and years, and have shown for decades they have no qualms sending their own children and friends to death for the greater good.

Nah. The people in charge of Iran cherish their lives and are not looking for martyrdom, they want to maintain their wealth and power. They're looking for a distraction to keep the people from realizing their leaders are the cause of their problems. And as often has been a case "teh jews" are that distraction. So they fire the rhetoric up, blame every problem on "the zionists" and if they can convince angry young males to blow themselves up before they realize they've been misled and cause trouble for their leaders at home, all the better.

Actually killing off all the jews or getting rid of Isreal takes that distraction away.



^ Recursive ursines.

Any Iranian leader that actually wanted "martyrdom and holy war more than they value life and their power" would be dead by now. The rest have a deeply vested personal interest in going on living, and the sense to want nukes as a bargaining chip rather than an ultimate grade of suicide bomb. Genuine fanatics and motivational hype go up front, manipulators and forward planning sit watchfully in the back.
 
2012-02-09 01:55:38 PM

Here Comes Everybody: I saw Israel's ambassador being interviewed on Fox News (I know, I know, it was on the TV at my gym) a couple of days ago and he was laying it on with a trowel, claiming that Iran wants to "rule the Arab world" (uh, Iranians aren't Arabs).

fark Bibi. fark Likud. They are not worth a single American life, and if Obama tells Bibi and the right wing to pound sand over war with Iran, he's a hero.




Except there are already British SAS forces fighting in Syria right now along side the rebels, and very likely, US special forces as well. And Russian Spetznaz fighting alongside the Syrian army.


Hmmm, we pull tens of thousands of troops out of Afghanistan while at the same time parking an aircraft carrier group right off the coast of Israel and Hormuz. Nope, nothing suspicious about that.

Basically its a proxy war right now between the Brits, US, Israel and Syrian rebels vs the Syrian government, Iran, and Russia. Hopefully no US or British units kill any Russians or this could get hot.
 
2012-02-09 01:56:22 PM

James!: GleeUnit: Am I missing something here? What's the deal with the recent surge of manufactured 'desperate need' to start a war with Iran?

My theory is that our soldiers have been genetically altered into mindless murder machines by a shady government program partnered with the RAND corporation. The only people who know are former Bush Pentagon officials who are desperately trying to keep them away at war so that Americans aren't eaten alive by these monster-soldiers.


4.bp.blogspot.com

Curse you Trioxin!!
 
2012-02-09 01:57:19 PM

GleeUnit: Am I missing something here? What's the deal with the recent surge of manufactured 'desperate need' to start a war with Iran?

Is it really just that the MIC is getting hungry again? Because if so, that war is going to be pretty tough to sell to a weary country that just got out of one war less than four months ago and is still engaged in another. I would like to think we're collectively a lot more skeptical about "oh noes, WMDs!" after the Iraq debacle.

/Not that there aren't plenty of foaming-at-the-mouth retards who gobble that shiat up
//And not that it matters what we think anyway when there's money to be made


It's an attempt by the Israeli government to get a Republican elected President of the USA.

I wish I was joking.
 
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