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(CNN)   Attention all: Please join in this protest of Apple's working conditions in hopes to create an "ethical" manufacturing environment - sent from my iPhone   (money.cnn.com) divider line 56
    More: Ironic, iPhone, Apple Inc., Apple Stores, unfair labor practice, combines, worker's rights, Bangalore, electronics manufacturing  
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1741 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Feb 2012 at 10:00 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-09 09:30:49 AM
Not gonna happen

"These jobs arent coming back"

Thats what Jobs said.

Basically, this protest will be about as effective as OWS. Some news report and heated debates, but at the end of the day no one really gives a shiat.
 
2012-02-09 09:31:57 AM
I spent 2000 protest dollars yesterday on a new Mac Mini I7 and a Thunderbolt display
 
2012-02-09 09:44:57 AM
Right, subby. Boycotting is the only way to let a company know you disapprove of their practices.

/ANY electronics manufactured in the last few years has components from Foxconn
//or at least a company that uses the same labor practices.
 
2012-02-09 10:06:34 AM

Babwa Wawa: Right, subby. Boycotting is the only way to let a company know you disapprove of their practices.

/ANY electronics manufactured in the last few years has components from Foxconn
//or at least a company that uses the same labor practices.


i recently began installing extra connectors in service machines around here and laughed when i opened the attachment part and the connector cable it uses was wrapped in white plastic that said: "FOXCONN"

it's everywhere, man.
 
2012-02-09 10:09:58 AM
I was boycotting Apple before it was cool.
 
2012-02-09 10:11:54 AM
Wrong target. It should be Foxconn. And the way I see it, the only way this will stop is multiple governments pressuring Chinese government to force Foxconn into changing the way they do business.
 
2012-02-09 10:14:50 AM
Why is it apple's working conditions? Apple doesn't own foxconn.

Foxxconn manufactures for dozens of companies. All of them should be boycotted if you want the protest to actually mean anything.

Dipshiats hate apple because they get special attention from the media, then turn around and do stuff like this. Maybe they realized that protesting apple, nintendo, panasonic, samsung, sharp, sony, nokia, asus, asrock, amazon.com, dell, cisco, intel, IBM, HP, EVGA, and levono would be too much work.
 
2012-02-09 10:16:42 AM
Yeah! I'm gonna ditch this farking iPhone and get a Samsung!


That way, I'll do absolutely nothing to help Chinese workers AND my money will go to South Korea instead of the US!
 
2012-02-09 10:16:45 AM

Masso: Wrong target. It should be Foxconn. And the way I see it, the only way this will stop is multiple governments pressuring Chinese government to force Foxconn into changing the way they do business.


Super special extra-strength not gonna happen, with chocolate jimmies, whipped cream and a cherry on top.
 
2012-02-09 10:28:17 AM
If Apple weren't contracted to use 40% of Foxconn's production capacity, some other company would be.

Singling out Apple for attack when they're actually the Foxconn partner company that's probably been most publicly critical of their practices is rather repugnant.
 
2012-02-09 10:36:10 AM

Masso: Wrong target. It should be Foxconn. And the way I see it, the only way this will stop is multiple governments pressuring Chinese government to force Foxconn into changing the way they do business.


But Foxconn aren't breaking any Chinese laws or labour practices. They're actually one of the top companies to work for over there and people are/were camped outside waiting for job openings,

It might suck balls compared a western factory but it's infinitely better than working in the rice paddies for 13 hours a day.
 
2012-02-09 10:40:43 AM
From what I understand there aren't a lot of places in China that don't have bad working conditions. So unless you're a Jedi who swears off all possessions, you're supporting slave labor conditions somehow. And lightsaber parts are probably made in China too.
 
2012-02-09 10:51:08 AM

Mugato: And lightsaber parts are probably made in China too.


Only the Jedi ones....the Sith buy American.
 
2012-02-09 10:54:11 AM
It would be pretty funny to find out that a large percentage of the protesters went in and bought something after the protest.
 
2012-02-09 10:54:50 AM

Majick Thise: I spent 2000 protest dollars yesterday on a new Mac Mini I7 and a Thunderbolt display


I feel your pain, bro. I'm gonna protest when the new MacBookPros come next month. That'll show 'em!
 
2012-02-09 10:55:58 AM
I swore them off when they teamed up with News Corp on the iPad. Other than that, I can't really blame individual companies for playing by the rules they've been given -- the real problem is people refusing to 'boycott' Republicans and other neoliberal apologists that create these rules.
 
2012-02-09 11:00:17 AM

Majick Thise: I spent 2000 protest dollars yesterday on a new Mac Mini I7 and a Thunderbolt display


How easy are the Mini's to upgrade? RAM is one place where there really is an Apple Tax (for custom build upgrades) and I would probably put a couple of TB drives in if given the chance.


/My Mac Pro is getting long in the tooth.
 
2012-02-09 11:12:07 AM

GameSprocket: Majick Thise: I spent 2000 protest dollars yesterday on a new Mac Mini I7 and a Thunderbolt display

How easy are the Mini's to upgrade? RAM is one place where there really is an Apple Tax (for custom build upgrades) and I would probably put a couple of TB drives in if given the chance.


/My Mac Pro is getting long in the tooth.


Ram is easy in the mini, hard drives are a bit more involved but if you are comfortable inside a computer it isn't so bad. Here is a video (new window) Small fingers help quite a bit
 
2012-02-09 11:18:14 AM

Majick Thise: Small fingers help quite a bit


May have to get the kids to help.

Homer: Hey boy, something's stuck underneath the lawnmower -- you've got small hands, reach under there and pull it out.
 
2012-02-09 11:19:48 AM

GameSprocket: How easy are the Mini's to upgrade? RAM is one place where there really is an Apple Tax (for custom build upgrades) and I would probably put a couple of TB drives in if given the chance.


The unibody Minis are a lot easier to open than the earlier ones (no longer need to pry the case apart with a putty knife) but the tiny little motherboards have fairly paltry RAM support compared to full-size workstations: maximum 2x8GB, if I recall correctly.

As for the drives, you'd probably want to install a decent SSD inside the case for the OS and apps, and for data storage hook up an external enclosure via Thunderbolt. Notebook drives aren't exactly high-performance or high-capacity.
 
2012-02-09 11:27:25 AM

poot_rootbeer: As for the drives, you'd probably want to install a decent SSD inside the case for the OS and apps, and for data storage hook up an external enclosure via Thunderbolt. Notebook drives aren't exactly high-performance or high-capacity.


The Apple site lists the drives as 7200 RPM. It doesn't seem like laptop drives. My biggest concern is the video capability.

I love my Mac Pro, but those buggers are very expensive. I was able to justify it once, but I am mostly just doing home video and games these days.
 
2012-02-09 11:35:43 AM
SHOW YOUR IGNORANCE BY BOYCOTTING APPLE!


Signed - all the other companies with manufacturing at FoxConn that make less than Apple.
 
2012-02-09 11:36:22 AM

GameSprocket: It would be pretty funny to find out that a large percentage of the protesters went in and bought something after the protest.


these are the same people who went to apple stores and bought black ipods when steve jobs died "to remember him"

people are strange.
 
2012-02-09 11:53:25 AM
And are these people willing to pay up to 10 times more for their tech toys to make it so?

We created this problem by demanding and buying cheap stuff.

In the 1960's (yup, I am that old) my dad bought my sister one of those new fangled "transistor radios". When looking at the box afterward he commented (not to her) that it was made in JAPAN, and that he wanted to complain to the store that sold it that he did not want cheap crap, but a good one make in America. They said they did not have any that were NOT made in Japan.

It started 50 years ago, and we are paying now. No "quick fix".

And BTW, SOML
 
2012-02-09 11:53:25 AM

poot_rootbeer: If Apple weren't contracted to use 40% of Foxconn's production capacity, some other company would be.

Singling out Apple for attack when they're actually the Foxconn partner company that's probably been most publicly critical of their practices is rather repugnant.


The problem I have with them using Foxconn is the fact that they can easily afford to not, they have close to 100 billion dollars in the bank and their profit margins are far larger than most of the other companies who have Foxconn making their products.
 
2012-02-09 11:54:23 AM

cman: Basically, this protest will be about as effective as OWS. Some news report and heated debates, but at the end of the day no one really gives a shiat.


Summary of "heated" OWS debates:

Bob: Charlie isn't really saying anything
Charlie: BANANAS PEANUTS MILK EGGS CELERY
Bob: You're just reading a shopping list. Loudly
Charlie: YOU'RE A 1%er
Bob: 1% of what?
Charlie: I'M OUT OF POT
 
2012-02-09 11:59:10 AM
I think the central issue is that Apple makes a very big deal about catering to a certain clientele that believes themselves above such corporate shenanigans. Apple is the "little guy" in the PC Market, waaaaaaaaay behind the evil, hell-bent-on-world-domination Microsoft/Dell/IBM/whoever Illuminati. All their stuff "just works", and it works really well together, and it's for people who "think different".

But here they are making $13B in profits in three months with $100B in cash on hand, while Chinese workers are hurling themselves off rooftops and being poisoned. It's not that they've got a better job than a Chinese person in another industry...it's that by Apple's own standards, Foxconn and the other 62% of its suppliers aren't meeting their end of the bargain, which Apple makes a great deal of promoting on its website. And it's not apparent that Apple is doing anything about it. Nobody really expects Cisco, Amazon, Dell, and the myriad other companies out there to do anything about it, because their consumers largely don't care where their IP infrastructure comes from or where their work desktop was built. Oh, and together, they didn't even make as much in one year as Apple made in one quarter.

If the Apple apologists would merely visit the websites of the two online petitions out there, I think they'd see that it's primarily Apple customers who were -- shock! -- blissfully unaware that their Apple products weren't shat from the magical rainbow-colored unicorn in Steve Job's wavy-grass sunny pasture outside his solar-and-wind-powered, fully recyclable office in Cupertino.

Unfortunately, since the mobile carriers are the ones buying these phones and subsidizing them for the consumer, after thinking about the target of these petitions, I think they're off the mark -- if they want change, they need to send the petitions to AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint. Their profits are now tied directly to the iPhone.

/Own a 4-year old iPod.
 
2012-02-09 12:28:05 PM

change1211:
The problem I have with them using Foxconn is the fact that they can easily afford to not, they have close to 100 billion dollars in the bank and their profit margins are far larger than most of the other companies who have Foxconn making their products.


You can make exactly the same statement about (goes to Wikipedia):

Acer Inc.
Amazon.com
ASRock
Asus
Barnes & Noble
Cisco
Dell
EVGA Corporation
Hewlett-Packard
Intel
IBM
Lenovo
Microsoft
MSI
Motorola
Netgear
Nintendo
Nokia
Panasonic
Samsung
Sharp
Sony
Sony Ericsson
Vizio

All of those are their major customers and frankly all of them can afford to 'go local'. Yes, Sony is on that list. Sony, they who make a fark ton of electronics. I don't hear people whining about Sony's use of Foxconn.
 
2012-02-09 12:37:37 PM

Vaneshi: change1211:
The problem I have with them using Foxconn is the fact that they can easily afford to not, they have close to 100 billion dollars in the bank and their profit margins are far larger than most of the other companies who have Foxconn making their products.

You can make exactly the same statement about (goes to Wikipedia):

(list)

All of those are their major customers and frankly all of them can afford to 'go local'. Yes, Sony is on that list. Sony, they who make a fark ton of electronics. I don't hear people whining about Sony's use of Foxconn.


Most people are more than happy to complain about Sony. For all kinds of reasons. I know I do.
 
2012-02-09 12:44:19 PM

Kraftwerk Orange:
Most people are more than happy to complain about Sony. For all kinds of reasons. I know I do.


True and likewise. But the same is also true of Apple (people complain for all kinds of reasons) . I'd be more than happy to sign a petition if it was aimed at ALL of Foxconn's customers or at Foxconn directly but this just seems like yet another Apple bash.
 
2012-02-09 01:01:55 PM

Babwa Wawa:

/ANY electronics manufactured in the last few years has components from Foxconn
//or at least a company that uses the same labor practices.


Not my Samsung Galaxy SII.

The workers at that factory only work 2 hours a day, and get a puppy or kitten to keep close by should they need comforting during those stressful times.
 
2012-02-09 01:36:59 PM
Profits (All in USD):

Acer Inc. - $479 Million
Amazon.com - $1.2 Billion. However isn't almost all of this from them selling things that they haven't made? They lose money on their tablets and the big money from their e-readers come from book sales.
ASRock - $36 Million
Asus - $390 Million
Barnes & Noble - Loss of $73.9 Million
Cisco - Loss of $6.49 Billion
Dell - 2.63 Billion
EVGA Corporation - I think you mean Nvidia - Loss of $67 Million
Hewlett-Packard - Loss of 7 Billion
Intel - 12.9 Billion - However they do a good amount of production and assembly out of China
IBM - 15.8 Billion - Like Intel, they do a good amount of their production and assembly outside of China
Lenovo - $273 Million
Microsoft - Their Games Division had a profit of $1.32 Billion
MSI - I wasn't able to find their profit
Motorola - It looks like somewhere around $50 Million. I could be very wrong though
Netgear - $59 Million
Nintendo - Loss of $952 Million
Nokia - 2.3 Billion
Panasonic - $893 Million
Samsung - $21.2 Billion - Same situation as Intel, a lot of their production isn't located in China
Sharp - I think my calculation may be wrong but around $250,000?
Sony - Loss of 2.41 Billion
Sony Ericsson - This is Sony
Vizio - Couldn't find their profit

Apple - 13 Billion Q4 2011, assuming this continues then $52 Billion. This is why people have a problem with Apple producing all their products in China, they can easily afford to not but continue to do so.
 
2012-02-09 01:51:42 PM

change1211:
Apple - 13 Billion Q4 2011, assuming this continues then $52 Billion. This is why people have a problem with Apple producing all their products in China, they can easily afford to not but continue to do so.


And so can all the others. Or are you suggesting they're small fry or should be except because they aren't Apple? For their part Apple have been quite vocal about auditing (both announced and surprise it seems) the factories and keeping things to their liking. I've yet to see any of the other, major, customers say one iota about the working conditions in China either in general or specifically Foxconn.

When you say they (Company X) make a lot of stuff outside of China, you do realise that Foxconn are the second largest exporter in the Czech Republic (again according to Wikipedia) so... I'm gonna suggest it's STILL Foxconn pumping out shiat in a place with 'favorable' employment standards.

No, not Nvidia. EVGA. Vizio are, allegedly, Americas number 1 maker of HDTV's.. not a brand I'd recognise but I assume they make a fair amount of coin.

As I said, if these petitions were aimed at ALL the companies using those production lines I'd be more than happy to sign it; but it's not.
 
2012-02-09 01:56:37 PM
How is that ironic? The only people that could reasonably assume that they could exert direct pressure on apple in this fashion would be apple customers. It doesn't matter that I disapprove of their foreign manufacturing partners and subsidiaries, since I already don't buy their products.

//Ironically, one of the reasons I don't buy their products is their close relationship with China in the first place, but either way "not getting a customer" doesn't have the same oomph as "losing a current customer".
//I tend to buy from companies that do the bulk of their fab and assembly in Japan, Mexico, or the US. Sometimes Korea, probably, as well. Not sure I'd know how to tell if I weren't part of the industry, though.
 
2012-02-09 02:16:55 PM

ColonelSanders33: Why is it apple's working conditions? Apple doesn't own foxconn.

Foxxconn manufactures for dozens of companies. All of them should be boycotted if you want the protest to actually mean anything.

Dipshiats hate apple because they get special attention from the media, then turn around and do stuff like this. Maybe they realized that protesting apple, nintendo, panasonic, samsung, sharp, sony, nokia, asus, asrock, amazon.com, dell, cisco, intel, IBM, HP, EVGA, and levono would be too much work.


Yeah, Apple has become the "poster child" for this - probably because they are seen as having lots of money, therefore the power to change things. But it is unfair, bordering on complete dishonesty, to imply that Apple is wholly responsible for this. Hell, a guy who wrote an "in depth" book on Foxconn was on Bill Maher last week and he used the term "Apple Employees" several times.
 
2012-02-09 02:29:16 PM

DontMakeMeComeBackThere:
Yeah, Apple has become the "poster child" for this - probably because they are seen as having lots of money, therefore the power to change things. But it is unfair, bordering on complete dishonesty, to imply that Apple is wholly responsible for this. Hell, a guy who wrote an "in depth" book on Foxconn was on Bill Maher last week and he used the term "Apple Employees" several times.


Well that guy is full of Derp isn't he?

The other question nobody seems to care about is what happens to the workers at the factories? Yeah ok, the pay is by our standards crappy the shifts long. But it pays better than the manual labour of farming and working the rice paddies; if we assume a, hypothetical, 13 year old is entering the work force in China because they have too and over there that's perfectly normal where do we want them going? Foxconn or manual labour? High wages or low?

It's a very morally ambiguous situation.
 
2012-02-09 02:58:59 PM

Vaneshi: change1211:
Apple - 13 Billion Q4 2011, assuming this continues then $52 Billion. This is why people have a problem with Apple producing all their products in China, they can easily afford to not but continue to do so.

And so can all the others. Or are you suggesting they're small fry or should be except because they aren't Apple? For their part Apple have been quite vocal about auditing (both announced and surprise it seems) the factories and keeping things to their liking. I've yet to see any of the other, major, customers say one iota about the working conditions in China either in general or specifically Foxconn.

When you say they (Company X) make a lot of stuff outside of China, you do realise that Foxconn are the second largest exporter in the Czech Republic (again according to Wikipedia) so... I'm gonna suggest it's STILL Foxconn pumping out shiat in a place with 'favorable' employment standards.

No, not Nvidia. EVGA. Vizio are, allegedly, Americas number 1 maker of HDTV's.. not a brand I'd recognise but I assume they make a fair amount of coin.

As I said, if these petitions were aimed at ALL the companies using those production lines I'd be more than happy to sign it; but it's not.


Vizio's total income in 2009 was 2.5 billion, that's nothing compared to Apple.

So how do you expect the companies that have lost a whole bunch of money to move their production to the first world and survive? Your argument seems full of crap when you compare the amount of money Apple has made compared to the other companies. Also, you've just provided a big list of companies, you haven't told us how much of their manufacturing is done by Foxconn. We know that pretty much all of Apple's work is done by them, how about the other companies?
 
2012-02-09 03:33:08 PM

Stabone33: I think the central issue is that Apple makes a very big deal about catering to a certain clientele that believes themselves above such corporate shenanigans. Apple is the "little guy" in the PC Market, waaaaaaaaay behind the evil, hell-bent-on-world-domination Microsoft/Dell/IBM/whoever Illuminati. All their stuff "just works", and it works really well together, and it's for people who "think different".

/Own a 4-year old iPod.


That stopped being true when the ipad and the iphone made them the top smartphone and pc manufacturers in the US, respectively. They don't cater to niches anymore. They now cater to the teeming masses, and their advertising and design philosophy reflects that.

And what better way to reflect the teeming masses than to employ as many chinese people as possible? :V
 
2012-02-09 03:41:19 PM

change1211:
So how do you expect the companies that have lost a whole bunch of money to move their production to the first world and survive? Your argument seems full of crap when you compare the amount of money Apple has made compared to the other companies. Also, you've just provided a big list of companies, you haven't told us how much of their manufacturing is done by Foxconn. We know that pretty much all of Apple's work is done by them, how about the other companies?


And your argument, based on the number of times you've mentioned a single company, seems to revolve around Apple should relocate to the first world because it's Apple and hey who cares if Dell, HP, IBM, Microsoft and pretty much a who's who of American tech companies use them as well. It's equally full of crap, but please, let the buthurt flow through you.

I haven't provided WHAT? Now you really are clutching at straws. It is known that every Dell machine is made there from chassis to system board. Pictures of it were floating around from years before you decided to get outraged by Apple. Pretty much the whole of the 360, PS3 and Wii come from there. A lot of the Samsung stuff is again PCB assembly and plastics, it's one of Foxconn's oldest specialties.

But you'd know that, because you, like me, were dubious about them since the 00's... right? I mean you were outraged at Dell using them back in the day right? You swore off Dell & HP products right?

I'm willing to bet no.
 
2012-02-09 03:48:06 PM

ColonelSanders33: That stopped being true when the ipad and the iphone made them the top smartphone and pc manufacturers in the US, respectively. They don't cater to niches anymore. They now cater to the teeming masses, and their advertising and design philosophy reflects that.


"Apple is committed to the highest standards of social responsibility across our worldwide supply chain. We insist that all of our suppliers provide safe working conditions, treat workers with dignity and respect, and use environmentally responsible manufacturing processes. Our actions - from thorough site audits to industry-leading training programs - demonstrate this commitment." (new window)

nexgadget.com
 
2012-02-09 03:57:18 PM

change1211: So how do you expect the companies that have lost a whole bunch of money to move their production to the first world and survive?


How do you expect Apple to move their production to the first world and survive?

Sorry, I didn't mean "how", I meant "why".

"They can afford it" might have truth to it now, but if it probably wouldn't for long if they sank billions into doing something that puts them at a competitive disadvantage in the marketplace. Sure they could single-handedly rebuild the domestic electronics manufacturing industry in the US, but what's in it for them? What's in it for their customers? What's in it for the economics of China and other developing nations?

Apple has been on the brink of death before. I'd imagine they'd prefer never to have to go hat in hand asking Microsoft for a bailout again, and so they're going to be very careful not to give any competitor an opportunity to undercut them.
 
2012-02-09 04:03:28 PM
The other question nobody seems to care about is what happens to the workers at the factories? Yeah ok, the pay is by our standards crappy the shifts long. But it pays better than the manual labour of farming and working the rice paddies; if we assume a, hypothetical, 13 year old is entering the work force in China because they have too and over there that's perfectly normal where do we want them going? Foxconn or manual labour? High wages or low?

It's a very morally ambiguous situation.


So it's okay, then, because they need the money?

Bullshiat. Children worked and died in US and European factories a hundred years ago because they needed the money. Was that okay?

Apple has the ability to fix endemic problems in one of the single largest manufacturing companies in China by enforcing their standards. They could afford to pay workers more, or pay Foxconn to hire more workers. Or hell, just buy Foxconn and slap a silver apple on the front.

South Korea assembles a shiatload of smartphones and feature phones for Samsung, so why not go there and diversify their manufacturing base? Since AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint subsidize the smartphone prices for consumers anyway, and still make up to 40% profit, why not relocate some assembly to Mexico, South America, or the US, and the carriers recoup some of the price increase as a 20-30% up-front increase in the subsidized price, and raise data rates 5% or so to offset the rest?

Apple spends millions annually training its suppliers' workforce (new window). Why not spend a few bucks on that over here?
 
2012-02-09 04:08:42 PM

Vaneshi: change1211:
So how do you expect the companies that have lost a whole bunch of money to move their production to the first world and survive? Your argument seems full of crap when you compare the amount of money Apple has made compared to the other companies. Also, you've just provided a big list of companies, you haven't told us how much of their manufacturing is done by Foxconn. We know that pretty much all of Apple's work is done by them, how about the other companies?

And your argument, based on the number of times you've mentioned a single company, seems to revolve around Apple should relocate to the first world because it's Apple and hey who cares if Dell, HP, IBM, Microsoft and pretty much a who's who of American tech companies use them as well. It's equally full of crap, but please, let the buthurt flow through you.

I haven't provided WHAT? Now you really are clutching at straws. It is known that every Dell machine is made there from chassis to system board. Pictures of it were floating around from years before you decided to get outraged by Apple. Pretty much the whole of the 360, PS3 and Wii come from there. A lot of the Samsung stuff is again PCB assembly and plastics, it's one of Foxconn's oldest specialties.

But you'd know that, because you, like me, were dubious about them since the 00's... right? I mean you were outraged at Dell using them back in the day right? You swore off Dell & HP products right?

I'm willing to bet no.


I'd guess the reason I've mentioned Apple so much is because that's what the article and thread have been about.

poot_rootbeer: change1211: So how do you expect the companies that have lost a whole bunch of money to move their production to the first world and survive?

How do you expect Apple to move their production to the first world and survive?

Sorry, I didn't mean "how", I meant "why".

"They can afford it" might have truth to it now, but if it probably wouldn't for long if they sank billions into doing something that puts them at a competitive disadvantage in the marketplace. Sure they could single-handedly rebuild the domestic electronics manufacturing industry in the US, but what's in it for them? What's in it for their customers? What's in it for the economics of China and other developing nations?

Apple has been on the brink of death before. I'd imagine they'd prefer never to have to go hat in hand asking Microsoft for a bailout again, and so they're going to be very careful not to give any competitor an opportunity to undercut them.


This is for the both of you. The reason people are attacking Apple over this is because they're in the best position to move their production to the first world. As for why, because they're able to? Because of the huge boost it would be to the US? It sure would be great for their image.
 
2012-02-09 04:21:52 PM

change1211: This is for the both of you. The reason people are attacking Apple over this is because they're in the best position to move their production to the first world. As for why, because they're able to? Because of the huge boost it would be to the US? It sure would be great for their image.


Any CEO will tell you that his first obligation is to the stock holders. That overshadows any moral, ethical, even legal priorities if they can get away with it. To them, nothing matter but making money for their stockholders. If they can do that, then that's all that matters. So no, none of these companies have a reason to change anything.
 
2012-02-09 04:35:30 PM
Any CEO will tell you that his first obligation is to the stock holders. That overshadows any moral, ethical, even legal priorities if they can get away with it. To them, nothing matter but making money for their stockholders. If they can do that, then that's all that matters. So no, none of these companies have a reason to change anything.

And what if their sales drop because of negative press and a hipster boycott?

What if sales increased because Apple announces, in advance, that they're going to make real changes in their production and assembly contracts for more ethically-produced iStuff in response to customer demands?

methinks the shareholders care more about where that income is coming from in that if it starts to disappear, it doesn't matter what the profit margin on manufacturing unsold phones is.

This is the argument Apple fanbois use when they point at "shipped" vs. "sold" numbers from Samsung and Nokia. It doesn't matter to Samsung and Nokia, because that phone is still sold...to the mobile company.
 
2012-02-09 04:51:09 PM

Stabone33: ColonelSanders33: That stopped being true when the ipad and the iphone made them the top smartphone and pc manufacturers in the US, respectively. They don't cater to niches anymore. They now cater to the teeming masses, and their advertising and design philosophy reflects that.

"Apple is committed to the highest standards of social responsibility across our worldwide supply chain. We insist that all of our suppliers provide safe working conditions, treat workers with dignity and respect, and use environmentally responsible manufacturing processes. Our actions - from thorough site audits to industry-leading training programs - demonstrate this commitment." (new window)

[nexgadget.com image 600x381]


Replace "Apple" in that sentence with any other company name and I'm sure the statement will be pretty much identical. I don't see how saying "we dont want our suppliers to use slave labor" is something exclusively reserved for 'alternative', or 'smug', if you will, companies.

Hell, find me a company that has a statement saying "fark our suppliers' employees." on a public page after getting the same amount of burn that apple has gotten for it.
 
2012-02-09 04:56:52 PM

Meat's dream: I was boycotting Apple before it was cool.


i've boycotted Apple all my life. It's easy to avoid buying inferior, overpriced fashion statements.
 
2012-02-09 05:02:11 PM
Two cheers for sweatshops (new window) (somewhat similar issue)
 
2012-02-09 05:15:18 PM

Stabone33: And what if their sales drop because of negative press and a hipster boycott?

What if sales increased because Apple announces, in advance, that they're going to make real changes in their production and assembly contracts for more ethically-produced iStuff in response to customer demands?


Obviously they don't think that's the case. And they're probably right.

And I don't own any Apple products, not that it matters. I'm just describing the corporate mindset as I understand it, good or bad.
 
2012-02-09 06:43:48 PM

change1211: Apple - 13 Billion Q4 2011, assuming this continues then $52 Billion. This is why people have a problem with Apple producing all their products in China, they can easily afford to not but continue to do so.


It's not about "can they afford to", it's about, is the American manufacturing sector able to meet Apple's needs. And it's not, not for love and money.
 
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