Step 3: Profit?

I instantly thought this article was about Chicago schools.

cocaine?

I understand why they tried to use a different system (you can't really have 100% attendance, can you?), but why not just use percentiles then? Giving letter grades just obfuscates the actual numbers.

Grade inflation? In YOUR school? It's more likely than you think.

America, home of institutionalized mediocrity.

Aidan: I understand why they tried to use a different system (you can't really have 100% attendance, can you?), but why not just use percentiles then? Giving letter grades just obfuscates the actual numbers.

Pardon me. Giving letter grades IN ADDITION to grading on a curve just obfuscates the actual numbers.

Bad economy? Print boat loads of greenbacks. Boom, everyone is rich.

This reminds me of one of my grandad's favorite adages--

"If at first you don't succed, lower you standards."

He was an inspiration.

Mom I got straight A's! I'm gonna be a doctor!

"Our bar is the top 10 percent," Skandera said. "That's how we're measuring success. I think that's an excellent starting point for asking, 'How are we doing?' And let's benchmark against that and go forward and aspire that every single one of our schools is in the top 10 percent."

Aspire that every single one of their schools is in the top 10 percent (of all their schools)? EPIC FAIL

FTA: "After all, the standard grading scale of 90-100 equaling a "A," 80-89 equaling a "B," 70-79 a "C," and so on has been around for decades."

I seem to remember back in the early 1990's (high school for me) that 94-up was an "A", "B"s started around 86, "C"s started in the upper 70's, and anything below 70 was an "F". Do they even give "F"s anymore?

Grade inflation has been going on for decades, and it doesn't help our kids.

Its even worse here in Canadia...50% is a Passing grade...I real wonder half of Ontario is on welfare...


/American
//never moving back

I see nothing asinine here. They are using a distributive, normalized scoring system that accounts for a number of variables. Perhaps the use of a letter grade is not the best choice, but it is something the public understands.

As a concrete example: if a student gets 50% of the question on the American Chemical Society's standardized exam in organic chemistry correct, that puts the student in the 85th percentile (a very good score). This normalization is required because organic chemistry is a huge discipline and until someone has studied it for years, it is not possible for him to know it all. So students taking the exam after a single year of study should have a basic understanding of the concepts, but will have no idea of how to answer many of the questions, with so limited knowledge. However the advanced topics are included to identify those students who really excel in the subject.

If 75 is an "A" grade, then 45 is a "D" grade. With that logic, they only have to show up to get a passing grade. Spell your name correctly, and you get to teach the class for a day. Talk about " no child left behind"

Quiefenburger: I know a guy that drowned in a lake with an average depth of just 1 foot. Sounds impossible, but it's a true story.

you can drown in a lake with a maximum depth of one foot as well.

my brother teaches in a high school where more than half of the students could not answer the following "what is 7 times 11?"

most of them can barely read, if at all. there are a few that try, but they are frequently disrupted by the loud and frequent interruptions of the majority.

How about you aspire to make sure every child has the skills to succeed in life?

This headline is proof that America's education system is failing.

Woot_Gawd: Its even worse here in Canadia...50% is a Passing grade...I real wonder half of Ontario is on welfare...


/American
//never moving back

Which half is on welfare ?

proteus_b: Quiefenburger: I know a guy that drowned in a lake with an average depth of just 1 foot. Sounds impossible, but it's a true story.

you can drown in a lake with a maximum depth of one foot as well.

my brother teaches in a high school where more than half of the students could not answer the following "what is 7 times 11?"

most of them can barely read, if at all. there are a few that try, but they are frequently disrupted by the loud and frequent interruptions of the majority.

Sounds like they'll graduate right to prison.

This space intentionaly left blank: If 75 is an "A" grade, then 45 is a "D" grade. With that logic, they only have to show up to get a passing grade. Spell your name correctly, and you get to teach the class for a day. Talk about " no child left behind"

That's the thing, it seems that the 87% failing was under the NCLB criteria, and they've actually gone and lowered -that- bar so more appear to be passing. Even the top 10% of schools aren't doing all that well--only 4 in the whole state scored 90 or higher. That is pathetic, and they know it. Applying a curve was only done so the administration could fudge the numbers and look better than they actually are.

Quiefenburger: I know a guy that drowned in a lake with an average depth of just 1 foot. Sounds impossible, but it's a true story.

Of course it isn't impossible.


Reading warnings on 5 gallon polyethylene buckets has taught me one can drown in as little as just a few inches of water.

It's okay ... the public school kids were always on a 10-point grade scale ...

100-90 - A
89-80 - B
79-70 - C
69-60 - D

Whereas, us private school kids were always on an 8-point grade scale ...

100-92 - A
91-84 - B
83-76 - C
75-68 - D

Welcome to the fold ... where the kids in public schools are passed because well, they go to public schools. Fark them.. Everyone should be on an 8-point scale or a 10-point scale ... it's a useless double standard if it's anything else.

This space intentionaly left blank: If 75 is an "A" grade, then 45 is a "D" grade. With that logic, they only have to show up to get a passing grade. Spell your name correctly, and you get to teach the class for a day. Talk about " no child left behind"

You know how I know you didn't read the article?

At least all of their schools are in the top 100%.

MemeSlave: Sounds like they'll graduate right to prison.

yeah i was home a few weeks ago and one of the days the cops came in and arrested some kid for robbing an old lady with a knife. my brother's a reasonable guy, so he let them all go watch if unfold through the window.

Ahhh, New Mexico...where one can go from utter beauty to abject poverty in the space of a few miles.

Yay, further lowering the standards. But I hope the kids still have bible class so true knowledge is imparted on them.

thomps: Aidan: Aidan: I understand why they tried to use a different system (you can't really have 100% attendance, can you?), but why not just use percentiles then? Giving letter grades just obfuscates the actual numbers.

Pardon me. Giving letter grades IN ADDITION to grading on a curve just obfuscates the actual numbers.

but if the goal is to identify schools that need more attention, shouldn't grading on a curve be the better system, since it always clearly separates and identifies stragglers? assigning grades based on those separations is just a simple way of communicating which schools are in more need of attention.

That's why I recommended percentiles. That would clearly show just HOW badly some schools are doing in relation to others.

seadoo2006: Everyone should be on an 8-point scale or a 10-point scale ... it's a useless double standard if it's anything else.

isn't it kind of a useless standard unless you're all taking the same test under the same conditions as well? i mean, i've taken some tests that a score of 50% would demonstrate a much better level of competence than a score of 95% on some other tests.

/you needed 93 for an A in my high school...

KelvinZero: "...go forward and aspire that every single one of our schools is in the top 10 percent."

I think I see your problem.

Yeah. They would have to add way more schools in order to get them all in the top 10 percent.

The Crepes of Wrath: America, home of institutionalized unionized education mediocrity.

FTFY.

/government schools, raising dumb little democrats for 4 generations

Isn't that how organic chem finals are graded?

buzzcut73: This space intentionaly left blank: If 75 is an "A" grade, then 45 is a "D" grade. With that logic, they only have to show up to get a passing grade. Spell your name correctly, and you get to teach the class for a day. Talk about " no child left behind"

That's the thing, it seems that the 87% failing was under the NCLB criteria, and they've actually gone and lowered -that- bar so more appear to be passing. Even the top 10% of schools aren't doing all that well--only 4 in the whole state scored 90 or higher. That is pathetic, and they know it. Applying a curve was only done so the administration could fudge the numbers and look better than they actually are.

I just wanted to point this out again for people. This is the real reason for the bell curve.

This film should be classified as a documentary.

chuckufarlie: This film should be classified as a documentary.



try that again

Aidan: thomps: Aidan: Aidan: I understand why they tried to use a different system (you can't really have 100% attendance, can you?), but why not just use percentiles then? Giving letter grades just obfuscates the actual numbers.

Pardon me. Giving letter grades IN ADDITION to grading on a curve just obfuscates the actual numbers.

but if the goal is to identify schools that need more attention, shouldn't grading on a curve be the better system, since it always clearly separates and identifies stragglers? assigning grades based on those separations is just a simple way of communicating which schools are in more need of attention.

That's why I recommended percentiles. That would clearly show just HOW badly some schools are doing in relation to others.

I think that could facilitate a race to the bottom even more. Sure, you want YOUR school to be in the 90th percentile in your state, but each state wants to be in the top 50% of all states. And with Federal funding and state funding playing off of one another, you could see a very small pool of states jump up to the top, while most states remain in the ever falling state of mediocrity, and a few become absolutely craplousy.

It would be really honest, and hard to fudge with, but I suspect states would find a way to obfuscate those metrics the same way our tax system has become this mystical political force in which there are but two solitary states: Increasing or Decreasing.

At least when you make shiat up, parents become aware of how THEIR kids are graded. Kid comes home with Cs all over and has to explain that a B requires an 84%. Not all parents are paying attention but for those that are, a universal system of metrics doesn't really help them determine the quality of education their kids are receiving.

Random Anonymous Blackmail: I instantly thought this article was about Chicago schools.

Did you see the station letters? First thing I thought of.

A! (a) L! (l) B! (b) U! (u)........ KRQE!!!!

BeesNuts: Sure, you want YOUR school to be in the 90th percentile in your state, but each state wants to be in the top 50% of all states.

Not true for Texas. I think we take subsidies to make other states' education systems look good in comparison.

Redefinition. They do the same thing for the Unemployment Rating. Simply change the requirements to receive it, thereby eliminating people who receive it, and the rating goes down. Simply change a number, and now it looks like you've created jobs. Through no real work at all.

So we should go back to 12 kids per classroom?

I took physics as a junior in high school. It was hard, I needed a tutor, but I stuck with it and got a respectable high-80's/low 90's score in the class (out of 100).

Two years later in college, I took Physics 101 (I never took the AP) for engineers. Same difficulty as highschool. However the mean was a 30 out of 100. And kids were getting C's!!


/Me? I was getting 50s.
//I should have been ashamed, but... I was a freshman in college, skating by, and lovin' it!

BeesNuts: I think that could facilitate a race to the bottom even more. Sure, you want YOUR school to be in the 90th percentile in your state, but each state wants to be in the top 50% of all states. And with Federal funding and state funding playing off of one another, you could see a very small pool of states jump up to the top, while most states remain in the ever falling state of mediocrity, and a few become absolutely craplousy.

Hm. Probably. I really dislike the belief that people need to see one figure (a number, or a letter) instead of presenting multiple (slightly more honest) figures in some fashion. It seems like the reductionist view practically invites fraud, pretty much like you said.