If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Yahoo)   Mitt Romney's latest proposal has been denounced by TEA party leaders, The Club For Growth, and the US Chamber of Commerce and described as "class warfare". The proposal? Making sure the minimum wage keeps up with inflation   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 286
    More: Asinine, Club for Growth, Mitt Romney, Steve Forbes, tea party, human beings, Yahoo News, Andrew McCarthy, Alan Krueger  
•       •       •

1522 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Feb 2012 at 9:28 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



286 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-02-08 10:20:46 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Her vision is predicated on the absolute desperation of the poor.


Which is why I said it was in error.

the_geek: Labor costs are about 15% of the cost of fast food. So doubling fast food workers' wages would increase the cost of your dollar value menu cheeseburger by about $0.15. For actual food (you know, in the front section of the grocery store that doesn't come in a box) the labor costs are so tiny that you could double the wages of vegetable pickers and you'd only see like a $0.02 increase in the price per pound at the store.


Cool story, bro.

/I didn't realize vegetable pickers also stocked shelves. themoreyouknow.jpg
 
2012-02-08 10:23:08 AM  

Magorn: You know, every single farking minimum wage thread, some smacked ass comes in here and posts this identical post


Well he got shiats so why shouldn't he or someone like him continue posting that shiat?

Honestly, you don't have to use the ignore list but you don't have to feed the farking trolls either.
 
2012-02-08 10:24:08 AM  

sprawl15: mekki: Prosperity for all except for the people who are very, very, very, I have more money than God, filthy rich. They are going to have to take in less to cover minimum wage increases.

Eh, minimum wage is kind of a double edged sword. It improves workers' lives, but either cuts down on the number of jobs or increases costs elsewhere. It'd be nice to have a burger flipper making 60 grand a year, but then a Whopper would cost $100.


we says things like that as if they are axiomatic, but are they true?

Case in point: Sam's Club and Costco are direct competitors. Sam's pays their workers an average of $7 an hour, and plays all kinds of games (such as classifying them as part time but making them work 37 hrs/wk) to keep from giving them any benefits. Costco pays an average of $15/hr and includes health and dental as well as a college tuition reimbursement plan as part of the standard bennies package.

By the logic of "pay employees less->sell things cheaper-> profit" Sam's should be kicking Costco's ass. However the reverse is true, Costco beats the hell out of Sam's whether you measure it by profits per store Sqft or even profits per dollar spent in wages.
 
2012-02-08 10:25:31 AM  
There's something to be said when this:
graphics8.nytimes.com
is cheaper than this:
image.shutterstock.com

The average American, trying to save money, will choose the first instead of the second because the first has more value.

There's a lot that needs to be "fixed." I'm not entirely sure if raising minimum wage would help, but it's a start. My question is if that minimum wage was to be increased, would food prices increase as well?
 
2012-02-08 10:27:51 AM  
The US Chamber of Commerce is not an umbrella group of local Chambers. It's a separate organization pushing a specific agenda that doesn't have much to do with local small business.
 
2012-02-08 10:28:32 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Why do these people not need a "living wage"?


They might, but with the structure of current law, that'd make the sixteen year-old stoner screwing up your order at Popeye's earns more than his labor's really worth. When he gets blown out of the gig because he's late for the tenth time this month, he's not going to starve. Mommy and daddy will still feed him. His dealer is probably gonna be disappointed, tho.
 
2012-02-08 10:29:23 AM  

Ricardo Klement: Labor is a commodity like anything else. If the price is set above the equilibrium point, it will cause unemployment. If it is set below, it will do nothing at all. Bodo's Bagels is hiring people in Charlottesville for $9.50 an hour. Changing the minimum wage to $8.00 won't impact them.

I am a Republican, but I would be for raising the minimum wage because, generally speaking, it would pretty much do nothing to the vast majority of even low-paying jobs but make us look all generous and reasonable. (of all the destructive things government can do, compromising on this one to gain leverage on a more important one is well worth it)


The thing is, the equilibrium point can be set by different methods than simply adjusting a minimum wage. Doing something about wealth disparity and getting money back into the hands of the lowest class / rebuilding the middle class would do much more to help employment and the lives of the poor than simply upping a single dial. The effects of tweaking the minimum wage would be positive for the narrow band of people who live on minimum wage at the moment, but it hurts those who are slightly above and those who are unemployed.

I'd much rather see something like a stronger estate tax, repeal of the Bush Tax Cuts, and that money rolled into breaks/loans/urban investment/whatever to help the poorest to get on their feet in both job training and simple things like cleaning up the neighborhoods. Ending the war on drugs is a huge factor in this: by stopping the influence of gangs and other assholes in the poorest of areas, we can step in and fix the economic problems.
 
2012-02-08 10:29:45 AM  

vartian: It absolutely stuns me how many piss-poor people scream and rant when someone suggest raising the minimum wage.


They think that one day they'll be wealthy business owners. Just as soon as I invent that robotic toaster that butters my bread for me and gives me an HJ, I'll be fabulously wealthy. THEN, I too can piss on poor people while I light cigars with million dollar bills!
 
2012-02-08 10:32:14 AM  
Increasing minimum wage with inflation will cause inflation, but that's ok, because the minimum wage is indexed to inflation.

A really small percentage of minimum wage earners fit into this BS narative of somebody trying to support their family on minimum wage.
 
2012-02-08 10:32:27 AM  
ahem.

USA:
federal minimum wage - $7.25
economy - Up the shiatter, but slowly getting better.
inflation - 3% (dec 2011)

Australia:
federal minimum wage - $15.51
economy - Two-paced, but generally considered to be very strong amongst the OECD
Inflation - 3.1% (dec 2011)


Any questions?
 
2012-02-08 10:33:14 AM  

the_geek: I would gladly pay an extra $0.50 for my happy meal or $0.02/lb for veggies if I could be reasonably assured that the money would go to peoples' wages.


What people seem to forget is that in a healthy economy the capital circulates through the economy. That's why Bush wanted everyone to go shopping after 9/11, to keep the wheels turning. Unfortunately the rest of his economic platform was slanted towards funneling that circulating capital to the top where it could idle in some billionaire's stock portfolio.
 
2012-02-08 10:33:23 AM  

Magorn: Case in point: Sam's Club and Costco are direct competitors.


Costco does a lot of things a lot better than Sam's Club, it's like comparing the wages/benefits package of Apple and Microsoft to explain why the iPod did so much better than the Zune. Here in Texas, HEB is pushing Wal-Mart out of the area simply by providing a better service despite their prices being a bit higher and not having access to Wal-Mart's legendary supply chain.

/HEB Central Market is farking awesome
 
2012-02-08 10:33:48 AM  

the_geek: sprawl15: Eh, minimum wage is kind of a double edged sword. It improves workers' lives, but either cuts down on the number of jobs or increases costs elsewhere. It'd be nice to have a burger flipper making 60 grand a year, but then a Whopper would cost $100.

Labor costs are about 15% of the cost of fast food. So doubling fast food workers' wages would increase the cost of your dollar value menu cheeseburger by about $0.15. For actual food (you know, in the front section of the grocery store that doesn't come in a box) the labor costs are so tiny that you could double the wages of vegetable pickers and you'd only see like a $0.02 increase in the price per pound at the store.

I would gladly pay an extra $0.50 for my happy meal or $0.02/lb for veggies if I could be reasonably assured that the money would go to peoples' wages.


Here's a stat that simultaneously blew my mind and broke my heart: A few years ago, McDonald's agreed to pay an extra penny per pound for their tomatos on the condition that the increase go directly to the wages of the pickers. That extra penny/pound was expected to DOUBLE the average wages of the famr workers who picked the crop.
 
2012-02-08 10:34:49 AM  

hurdboy: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Why do these people not need a "living wage"?

They might, but with the structure of current law, that'd make the sixteen year-old stoner screwing up your order at Popeye's earns more than his labor's really worth. When he gets blown out of the gig because he's late for the tenth time this month, he's not going to starve. Mommy and daddy will still feed him. His dealer is probably gonna be disappointed, tho.


Getting paid more than you're really worth is for management only!
 
2012-02-08 10:35:42 AM  

hurdboy: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Why do these people not need a "living wage"?

They might, but with the structure of current law, that'd make the sixteen year-old stoner screwing up your order at Popeye's earns more than his labor's really worth. When he gets blown out of the gig because he's late for the tenth time this month, he's not going to starve. Mommy and daddy will still feed him. His dealer is probably gonna be disappointed, tho.


Your made-up anecdote about a fictional teenager has led me to reevaluate my stance on the working poor.

F*ck those guys. I don't want Beavis thinking he's worth anything.
 
2012-02-08 10:37:46 AM  

hurdboy: Brostorm: 20% of min wage earners are teenagers.

"Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly-paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less."

Link (new window)

Dirty secret? Notsomuch. If you graduated from high school/earn a GED, aren't a convicted felon, and work full-time, unless you show yourself to be a complete idiot, you're probably going to earn more than minimum wage. It doesn't need to be a "living wage."


You really have no idea what kind of jobs are being created in this country do you?
 
2012-02-08 10:38:08 AM  

SJKebab: ahem.

USA:
federal minimum wage - $7.25
economy - Up the shiatter, but slowly getting better.
inflation - 3% (dec 2011)

Australia:
federal minimum wage - $15.51
economy - Two-paced, but generally considered to be very strong amongst the OECD
Inflation - 3.1% (dec 2011)


Any questions?


Inflation in December was 0%.

/hey, wasn't all that quantitative easing supposed to be "printing money" and cause all kinds of inflation?
 
2012-02-08 10:38:15 AM  
OK. Let me get this straight.
It's important that millionaires keep those tax breaks so they can create jobs.
It's important that these billiion dollar businesses keep their loopholes in and their taxes low so they can create jobs.
It's important that we keep the minimum wage low, so these millionsares and businesses can create jobs.

And then we have these stupid lazy farks leaching off the government because they make minimum wage. Why should we increase their pay? WHY DON'T THESE LAZY farkS SIMPLY WORK MORE JOBS?
 
2012-02-08 10:39:47 AM  
It seems like common sense to me - or rather, common human decency - that if someone works a 40 hour week, even behind the counter at Burger King, they should earn enough to afford the basics.

1. shelter
2. food
3. clothing
4. health insurance

Things like a car, cable tv, internet, PlayStation and all that other stuff aren't basics, they're extras. If someone wants those, they can get a roommate or a second job, or work for a promotion. But someone who spends 40 hours a week cleaning toilets shouldn't have to take a second job just to have food on the table. If that makes me a socialist or a communist, fine.

I personally would include children on the "extras" list. If you can't afford to take care of a child, don't have one.
 
2012-02-08 10:40:32 AM  

Sarah Palin's Conscience: There's something to be said when this:
[graphics8.nytimes.com image 190x243]
is cheaper than this:
[image.shutterstock.com image 450x320]

The average American, trying to save money, will choose the first instead of the second because the first has more value.

There's a lot that needs to be "fixed." I'm not entirely sure if raising minimum wage would help, but it's a start. My question is if that minimum wage was to be increased, would food prices increase as well?


We subsidize the wrong things in agriculture but that's an entirely different thread. Once I started cooking more I realized I could feed my family well for a lot less than the cost of fast food but I had to develop the skill and take the time to cook the meals.

Which reminds me, I need to get the meat and veges into the slow cooker so we can have stew this evening.
 
2012-02-08 10:40:34 AM  

sprawl15: Magorn: And hey as long as we're playing Reductio ad Absurdum why don't we play it the other way and sarcastically argue for all the wonderful thing s that would happen if we reduced the minimum to $0/hr.

Wait...one of the idiots on your side has already done that, but in complete earnestness: (new window)

"Literally, if we took away the minimum wage-if conceivably it was gone-we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level." Michelle Bachmann 2005

The error is not that there would be a massive number of new jobs opening up, it's in assuming people would take those jobs. Were minimum wage abolished, I'd offer a couple dozen jobs around my house for a nickel an hour. Doesn't mean anyone would take the highbrow jobs I would no doubt offer.


Ah, but you see, the fact that people would refuse to work for a dollar a day means they're lazy and shouldn't get any unemployment benefits or welfare or SNAP assistance, and instead should be left to starve.
Even granting her premise that unemployment would go to zero, economic well-being of those in the lowest-tier jobs would crash to devastating levels.
 
2012-02-08 10:42:08 AM  

The Why Not Guy:

I personally would include children on the "extras" list. If you can't afford to take care of a child, don't have one.


So when you lose your job, just leave the kids at the curb along with the recycling.
 
2012-02-08 10:42:20 AM  

Wendy's Chili: Mike Chewbacca: Wendy's Chili: And Mitt Romney did missionary work overseas. In France! Just imagine being immersed in a culture that doesn't believe in deodorant. I shudder at the thought.

Actually, I would call the Mormon mission hardship. I know several Mormons, and they had to figure out how to a) save up $10,000 as a minor so they could even GO on their mission; and b) live off a couple hundred dollars a month because their full time job is combing the neighborhood looking for converts. It's not an easy thing, and it really is a great character builder. It's not a party, and it sure teaches kids how to live as an adult better than going off to university does.

Yes. Trying to convince everyone you meet to wear magic underwear is much better preparation for life than going to college. You're absolutely right.


I usually agree with you on the things you say, but now you're just being crass. You can't see how volunteering to essentially live in poverty for two years is a good way to learn how to be a grown up? If it was a mission for any other religion you'd be agreeing with me, but because it's a MORMON mission you think it can in no way benefit the missionary. I'm not saying it's a replacement for college, I'm saying it's a better character builder and adult life skills developer than college. Especially the way we do college in the US.

/not Mormon, I just know several Mormons
//know a guy who learned Spanish for his mission outside San Francisco
 
2012-02-08 10:43:30 AM  

Ricardo Klement: SJKebab: ahem.

USA:
federal minimum wage - $7.25
economy - Up the shiatter, but slowly getting better.
inflation - 3% (dec 2011)

Australia:
federal minimum wage - $15.51
economy - Two-paced, but generally considered to be very strong amongst the OECD
Inflation - 3.1% (dec 2011)


Any questions?

Inflation in December was 0%.

/hey, wasn't all that quantitative easing supposed to be "printing money" and cause all kinds of inflation?


2.96% according to here. Admittedly, this is with the briefest of brief googling, but I stand by this until corrected.
 
2012-02-08 10:44:46 AM  

MugzyBrown: A really small percentage of minimum wage earners fit into this BS narative of somebody trying to support their family on minimum wage.


Well... I'm convinced!
 
2012-02-08 10:44:47 AM  

The Why Not Guy: It seems like common sense to me - or rather, common human decency - that if someone works a 40 hour week, even behind the counter at Burger King, they should earn enough to afford the basics.

1. shelter
2. food
3. clothing
4. health insurance

Things like a car, cable tv, internet, PlayStation and all that other stuff aren't basics, they're extras. If someone wants those, they can get a roommate or a second job, or work for a promotion. But someone who spends 40 hours a week cleaning toilets shouldn't have to take a second job just to have food on the table. If that makes me a socialist or a communist, fine.


There's a big problem in how much our country swallows advertising without thinking. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but my sister's (ex, thankfully) boyfriend was a perfect example of this. He would spend the food budget on beer and weed, would do the ridiculous game trade program at GameStop to fund his XBox habit, and would routinely go hungry just to watch pay-per-view UFC matches. It was farking ridiculous.

The majority of my sister's friends at the time were similar wastes of space. They'd get a shiatty job delivering chinese food, but the purpose of the job was to fund their habits, not live their lives. You could hand him a check for $20 grand and it would be gone in a week, his life not improved one bit. People like these need to be addressed by other means, and our corporations are trying as hard as they can to turn people into this kind of drone.
 
2012-02-08 10:47:51 AM  

The Why Not Guy: It seems like common sense to me - or rather, common human decency - that if someone works a 40 hour week, even behind the counter at Burger King, they should earn enough to afford the basics.

1. shelter
2. food
3. clothing
4. health insurance

Things like a car, cable tv, internet, PlayStation and all that other stuff aren't basics, they're extras. If someone wants those, they can get a roommate or a second job, or work for a promotion. But someone who spends 40 hours a week cleaning toilets shouldn't have to take a second job just to have food on the table. If that makes me a socialist or a communist, fine.

I personally would include children on the "extras" list. If you can't afford to take care of a child, don't have one.


That's the whole premise of a living wage. If you're dedicating all of your productive working hours to someone, they can farking well pay you to live. A point which I agree with. I don't care if it's Beavis screwing up an order at Popeye's. If he is holding down his job, he should be paid appropriately. The minimum wage in this country (in all of North America, really) is a sad joke, particularly since in many places it doesn't apply to agricultural workers or many food service jobs.
 
2012-02-08 10:49:41 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: So when you lose your job, just leave the kids at the curb along with the recycling.


If that's what you got from my post, well, there's nothing I can do about that.
 
2012-02-08 10:50:53 AM  

sprawl15: Magorn: Case in point: Sam's Club and Costco are direct competitors.

Costco does a lot of things a lot better than Sam's Club, it's like comparing the wages/benefits package of Apple and Microsoft to explain why the iPod did so much better than the Zune. Here in Texas, HEB is pushing Wal-Mart out of the area simply by providing a better service despite their prices being a bit higher and not having access to Wal-Mart's legendary supply chain.

/HEB Central Market is farking awesome


And how much of that, do you suppose can be attributed to the fact that by paying workers better you get more dedicated, motivated work out of them which thereby increases customer satisfaction with your store and makes people want to shop there again?
 
2012-02-08 10:51:01 AM  

The Why Not Guy: Philip Francis Queeg: So when you lose your job, just leave the kids at the curb along with the recycling.

If that's what you got from my post, well, there's nothing I can do about that.


Why? It's a perfectly valid point.
 
2012-02-08 10:51:43 AM  

vartian: It absolutely stuns me how many piss-poor people scream and rant when someone suggest raising the minimum wage.


Something like 3% of the population make minimum wage, of those, half are highschool kids living with mom and dad, and another large chunk of what is left are not primary household earners. So why would piss poor people really care all that much? Especially if they work for small businesses, which have a history of cutting staff when the rate is raised.
 
2012-02-08 10:52:30 AM  

The Why Not Guy: Philip Francis Queeg: So when you lose your job, just leave the kids at the curb along with the recycling.

If that's what you got from my post, well, there's nothing I can do about that.


You realize that people's financial situations can change dramatically over time don't you?
 
2012-02-08 10:53:10 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: The Why Not Guy:

I personally would include children on the "extras" list. If you can't afford to take care of a child, don't have one.

So when you lose your job, just leave the kids at the curb along with the recycling.


You libs have no financial sense. You can sell your kids slavers for probably $5K each if they're healthy and white.
 
2012-02-08 10:53:15 AM  

SJKebab: ahem.

USA:
federal minimum wage - $7.25
economy - Up the shiatter, but slowly getting better.
inflation - 3% (dec 2011)

Australia:
federal minimum wage - $15.51
economy - Two-paced, but generally considered to be very strong amongst the OECD
Inflation - 3.1% (dec 2011)


Any questions?


Yeah, when did correlation start equalling cause?
 
2012-02-08 10:54:34 AM  
I see the $10 Whopper argument has been trotted out.

If the true cost of getting that Whopper to my table is $10 (or $5 or $25 or whatever), then that's what I should pay. Why should someone else work for slave wages just so I can pay a few cents less for fast food?
 
2012-02-08 10:54:35 AM  

A Dark Evil Omen: That's the whole premise of a living wage.


The problem with a living wage includes the difficulty of defining it. Take food for example. Someone that goes out and eats fast food all the time is going to spend more money than someone who goes to Costco, buys bulk, and makes/freezes food. A 5 pound meatloaf can last you a week and costs about as much as a single meal at Chili's. Which basis do you use to define how much you need to live?
 
2012-02-08 10:54:35 AM  
weaselzippers.us
 
2012-02-08 10:55:34 AM  

EWreckedSean: Something like 3% of the population make minimum wage, of those, half are highschool kids living with mom and dad, and another large chunk of what is left are not primary household earners. So why would piss poor people really care all that much? Especially if they work for small businesses, which have a history of cutting staff when the rate is raised.


So you're saying that raising the minimum wage would have a trivial impact on the overall economy while greatly benefiting the lowest wager earners? Sounds like a win to me.
 
2012-02-08 10:56:49 AM  

EWreckedSean: Yeah, when did correlation start equalling cause?


4:32pm UTC on Oct 6, 2004.
 
2012-02-08 10:57:05 AM  

The Why Not Guy: It seems like common sense to me - or rather, common human decency - that if someone works a 40 hour week, even behind the counter at Burger King, they should earn enough to afford the basics.

1. shelter
2. food
3. clothing
4. health insurance

Things like a car, cable tv, internet, PlayStation and all that other stuff aren't basics, they're extras. If someone wants those, they can get a roommate or a second job, or work for a promotion. But someone who spends 40 hours a week cleaning toilets shouldn't have to take a second job just to have food on the table. If that makes me a socialist or a communist, fine.

I personally would include children on the "extras" list. If you can't afford to take care of a child, don't have one.


Why? Why should we pretend that all jobs can afford some one all those things? Why shouldn't we assume that there are some jobs that should be reserved for unskilled workers who don't need the job to provide for all their needs? There are plenty such workers in our work force. Why does a highschool kid have to be paid a wage that provides himself food, shelter, clothing and health insurance, when what he needs is a wage that pays for his first beater car and going to the movies with his girlfriend on Friday nights?
 
2012-02-08 10:58:33 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: You realize that people's financial situations can change dramatically over time don't you?


Um, yes, but that has nothing to do with what I was saying, which is that even the lowest paying full time job should provide the basics - food, shelter, clothes, health - and I personally don't include kids in that equation.
 
2012-02-08 10:59:13 AM  

Magorn: And how much of that, do you suppose can be attributed to the fact that by paying workers better you get more dedicated, motivated work out of them which thereby increases customer satisfaction with your store and makes people want to shop there again?


Depends what you mean. You're talking about direct customer satisfaction based on interaction with employees, something that isn't really a concern at grocery stores. HEB - like Costco - tends to hire the mentally handicapped to work the tasting booths, and those are the people you interact with the most. Since I normally go through the self-checkout lane, I rarely interact with anyone when I go. In regards to management efficiency from having a more reliable set of workers and easily filled positions? That's an obvious plus, but much less pronounced and I have no farking clue how to even begin to measure that benefit.
 
2012-02-08 10:59:35 AM  

Mike Chewbacca: I usually agree with you on the things you say, but now you're just being crass.


Welcome to Fark.

You can't see how volunteering to essentially live in poverty for two years is a good way to learn how to be a grown up?

He lived in a f*cking mansion with servants! (new window)

If it was a mission for any other religion you'd be agreeing with me, but because it's a MORMON mission you think it can in no way benefit the missionary.

I don't give a shiat about which brand of sky-wizardry he subscribes to; Mitt Romney doesn't know shiat about hardship.

I'm not saying it's a replacement for college, I'm saying it's a better character builder and adult life skills developer than college.

Yeah, I'm sure talking about metaphysics during that two-year vacation in Europe was essential to building the character that allowed him to raid the pensions of Dade International (new window).

static7.businessinsider.com


Look at 'im! He's got character leaking out of his ears!
 
2012-02-08 10:59:56 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: EWreckedSean: Something like 3% of the population make minimum wage, of those, half are highschool kids living with mom and dad, and another large chunk of what is left are not primary household earners. So why would piss poor people really care all that much? Especially if they work for small businesses, which have a history of cutting staff when the rate is raised.

So you're saying that raising the minimum wage would have a trivial impact on the overall economy while greatly benefiting the lowest wager earners? Sounds like a win to me.


How does it help the lowest earners when their job gets cut because the small business they work for was already struggling with salaries and the government made them raise rates every year?
 
2012-02-08 11:00:46 AM  

EWreckedSean: The Why Not Guy: It seems like common sense to me - or rather, common human decency - that if someone works a 40 hour week, even behind the counter at Burger King, they should earn enough to afford the basics.

1. shelter
2. food
3. clothing
4. health insurance

Things like a car, cable tv, internet, PlayStation and all that other stuff aren't basics, they're extras. If someone wants those, they can get a roommate or a second job, or work for a promotion. But someone who spends 40 hours a week cleaning toilets shouldn't have to take a second job just to have food on the table. If that makes me a socialist or a communist, fine.

I personally would include children on the "extras" list. If you can't afford to take care of a child, don't have one.

Why? Why should we pretend that all jobs can afford some one all those things? Why shouldn't we assume that there are some jobs that should be reserved for unskilled workers who don't need the job to provide for all their needs? There are plenty such workers in our work force. Why does a highschool kid have to be paid a wage that provides himself food, shelter, clothing and health insurance, when what he needs is a wage that pays for his first beater car and going to the movies with his girlfriend on Friday nights?


Well, for that matter some people are born into fabulous wealth, so why should jobs have to pay anything at all?
 
2012-02-08 11:02:11 AM  

EWreckedSean: Why does a highschool kid have to be paid a wage that provides himself food, shelter, clothing and health insurance, when what he needs is a wage that pays for his first beater car and going to the movies with his girlfriend on Friday nights?


1. I've specifically said that I'm talking about people who work a 40 hour week. I'm not sure many high school kids do that.

2. As for hourly wage, if the high school kid does the same work as the adult, why shouldn't he/she receive the same hourly wage?
 
2012-02-08 11:03:10 AM  

vartian: It absolutely stuns me how many piss-poor people scream and rant when someone suggest raising the minimum wage.


The guy who is proud of himself for making twice the minimum wage won't make twice the minimum wage any more if the minimum wage is raised.
 
2012-02-08 11:03:27 AM  

The Why Not Guy: Philip Francis Queeg: You realize that people's financial situations can change dramatically over time don't you?

Um, yes, but that has nothing to do with what I was saying, which is that even the lowest paying full time job should provide the basics - food, shelter, clothes, health - and I personally don't include kids in that equation.


So then what happens if you lose your job after you have kids and have to take one of those low paying jobs to get by?
 
2012-02-08 11:03:54 AM  

EWreckedSean: vartian: It absolutely stuns me how many piss-poor people scream and rant when someone suggest raising the minimum wage.

Something like 3% of the population make minimum wage, of those, half are highschool kids living with mom and dad, and another large chunk of what is left are not primary household earners. So why would piss poor people really care all that much? Especially if they work for small businesses, which have a history of cutting staff when the rate is raised.



teenagers are only 20% of people on the min wage
 
2012-02-08 11:04:08 AM  
Anyone surprised by this? These groups would like to see our labor laws returned to Third World country status.
 
Displayed 50 of 286 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report