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(Yahoo)   Mitt Romney's latest proposal has been denounced by TEA party leaders, The Club For Growth, and the US Chamber of Commerce and described as "class warfare". The proposal? Making sure the minimum wage keeps up with inflation   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 286
    More: Asinine, Club for Growth, Mitt Romney, Steve Forbes, tea party, human beings, Yahoo News, Andrew McCarthy, Alan Krueger  
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1522 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Feb 2012 at 9:28 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-08 08:50:55 AM
More evidence the Chamber of Commerce has turned from a moderate businessmens' group to a hard-rightist cabal. With funding from outside the country if I remember the last time they got found out.
 
2012-02-08 09:04:24 AM
Romney said last week that he supports regular increases in the minimum wage to keep pace with inflation, a position he took as a candidate for president in 2008. Six years before that, as a candidate for Massachusetts governor, Romney supported linking automatic increases in the state's minimum wage to inflation. "I haven't changed my thoughts on that, yet" he told reporters.

Fixed that for you, Mitt.
 
2012-02-08 09:05:49 AM
The Mitt Morning Meetings must be just delightful for staff.
 
2012-02-08 09:22:24 AM
It absolutely stuns me how many piss-poor people scream and rant when someone suggest raising the minimum wage.
 
2012-02-08 09:29:28 AM
Raising the minimum wage increases prosperity all around. Anyone that's against it is either ignorant or evil.
 
2012-02-08 09:30:34 AM

Generation_D: More evidence the Chamber of Commerce has turned from a moderate businessmens' group to a hard-rightist cabal. With funding from outside the country if I remember the last time they got found out.


Hey now... They're not hard right on everything. They still enjoy their nigh-slave immigrant labor.

vartian: It absolutely stuns me how many piss-poor people scream and rant when someone suggest raising the minimum wage.


Last-place aversion.
 
2012-02-08 09:31:17 AM

vartian: It absolutely stuns me how many piss-poor people scream and rant when someone suggest raising the minimum wage.


The only thing poor people hate more than rich people is other poor people.
 
2012-02-08 09:31:23 AM

Generation_D: More evidence the Chamber of Commerce has turned from a moderate businessmens' group to a hard-rightist cabal. With funding from outside the country if I remember the last time they got found out.


Link

Yep. They accept foreign donations, and use that money to campaign. The "US" Chamber of Commerce is in name only at this point. So whenever you see an ad by them, it's partially being bankrolled by foreigners.
 
2012-02-08 09:31:40 AM
Those 3 groups? Sounds like an Axis of Evil.
 
2012-02-08 09:35:43 AM
What assholes. Like anyone in any of those organizations has tried to survive on minimum wage.
 
2012-02-08 09:36:57 AM

Mike Chewbacca: What assholes. Like anyone in any of those organizations has tried to survive on minimum wage.


And of course I mean the leadership of those organizations, the ones making the decisions.
 
2012-02-08 09:39:53 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Raising the minimum wage increases prosperity all around. Anyone that's against it is either ignorant or evil.


Prosperity for all except for the people who are very, very, very, I have more money than God, filthy rich. They are going to have to take in less to cover minimum wage increases.

Come on. Won't someone think about them? They really need that fourth solid gold plane. Think of their happiness.
 
2012-02-08 09:40:52 AM

vartian: It absolutely stuns me how many piss-poor people scream and rant when someone suggest raising the minimum wage.


I wonder if it is hordes of piss poor people screaming about increasing minimum wage or a billionaire giving a megaphone to the dozen or so piss poor people screaming about it.
 
2012-02-08 09:41:35 AM
How does raising the minimum wage - simply to keep pace with inflation, which is more accurately put 'not decreasing the minimum wage' - rise to the level of Presidential politics in the US?

In the end, the undoing of the US political system may be that sooooo many things that are routine in functional democracies, things that opposing parties agree to as a simple matter of course, become highest-level wedge issues.

You know how they raise the minimum wage in this country? Neither do I, they just do it. Usually it's reported on the news that evening - 'staring x date, the new minimum wage will be...'

You know how they raise the debt ceiling? They don't...having a debt ceiling is positively asinine.

The trivia is absolutely mind-boggling.
 
2012-02-08 09:42:21 AM
All of you who only want the minimum wage to keep track with inflation are heartless, greedy, fatcat pigs.

The minimum wage should be increased to $25 per hour, AT LEAST. How can anyone be reasonably expected to provide for a family of four, pay for college, pay for healthcare, and save for retirement on the current minimum wage?

You know what ... scratch that $25 an hour, it should be $35 ... well no, it should actually be closer to $50 an hour ... in fact, lets just pay everyone $100,000 a year salary - thats the only way to ensure that the single mother with three kids can support her family.
 
2012-02-08 09:43:46 AM

mekki: Prosperity for all except for the people who are very, very, very, I have more money than God, filthy rich. They are going to have to take in less to cover minimum wage increases.


Eh, minimum wage is kind of a double edged sword. It improves workers' lives, but either cuts down on the number of jobs or increases costs elsewhere. It'd be nice to have a burger flipper making 60 grand a year, but then a Whopper would cost $100.
 
2012-02-08 09:43:57 AM

Mike Chewbacca: What assholes. Like anyone in any of those organizations has tried to survive on minimum wage.


Let's be fair here. Republican leaders know hardships just as well as anybody.

Just look at John Boehner. He had to go to work at fifteen. Sure his daddy owned the place, but a job's a job.

And Mitt Romney did missionary work overseas. In France! Just imagine being immersed in a culture that doesn't believe in deodorant. I shudder at the thought.
 
2012-02-08 09:46:21 AM

Mike Chewbacca: Like anyone in any of those organizations has tried to survive on minimum wage.


Who earns the minimum wage? Largely, high school and college students -- people who can be claimed on someone else's tax returns, so they can't be counted as unemployed......

Organized labor often tie their pay tiers to the Federal minimum. This is more about removing a political issue from the Democrats than anything else, really. But it also prevents huge jumps like were seen in 2007-2008.

Also gives a bargaining starting point for people who earn more than the minimum.
 
2012-02-08 09:47:54 AM

vartian: It absolutely stuns me how many piss-poor people scream and rant when someone suggest raising the minimum wage.


It's because raising the minimum wage would also help those poor people. You know, those swarthy shift-eyed ones that are so attractive and successful.

These are people who would literally cut their own nose off to spite their face.
 
2012-02-08 09:48:11 AM
From an economic perspective, they do have a point (as much as it pains me to say) Granted, as Milton Friedman said, the minimum wage does theoretically deflate employment in perfect market. However, given that the minimum wage does exist, NOT keeping with inflation will induce uncertainty into the market which will FURTHER deflate employment.

/ OH GOD I BLACKED OUT
// WHAT DID I SAY
 
2012-02-08 09:48:32 AM
Living wages are socialisms.

/Obama in a landslide
 
2012-02-08 09:48:44 AM

miked1883: All of you who only want the minimum wage to keep track with inflation are heartless, greedy, fatcat pigs.

The minimum wage should be increased to $25 per hour, AT LEAST. How can anyone be reasonably expected to provide for a family of four, pay for college, pay for healthcare, and save for retirement on the current minimum wage?

You know what ... scratch that $25 an hour, it should be $35 ... well no, it should actually be closer to $50 an hour ... in fact, lets just pay everyone $100,000 a year salary - thats the only way to ensure that the single mother with three kids can support her family.


No way! We should reinstitute slavery to alleviate the burden on businesses.

imagemacros.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-02-08 09:49:04 AM

vartian: It absolutely stuns me how many piss-poor people scream and rant when someone suggest raising the minimum wage.


Dickinson: Mr. Hancock, you're a man of property, one of us. Why don't you join us in our minuet? Why do you persist on dancing with John Adams? Good Lord, sir, you don't even like him!

Hancock: That is true, he annoys me quite a lot, but still I'd rather trot to Mr. Adams' new gavotte

Dickinson: But why? For personal glory, for a place in history? Be careful, sir, history will brand him and his followers as traitors.

Hancock: Traitors, Mr. Dickinson? To what? The British crown, or the British half-crown? Fortunately there are not enough men of property in America to dictate policy

Dickinson: Perhaps not. But don't forget that most men without property would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich, than face the reality of being poor.
 
2012-02-08 09:49:28 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Raising the minimum wage increases prosperity all around. Anyone that's against it is either ignorant or evil.


While prices will rise, see Australia, it DOES increase prosperity all around. The only people who benefit from keeping it low are the "jobz creatorz" and the Corporations.
 
2012-02-08 09:49:41 AM

Wendy's Chili: And Mitt Romney did missionary work overseas. In France! Just imagine being immersed in a culture that doesn't believe in deodorant. I shudder at the thought.


Actually, I would call the Mormon mission hardship. I know several Mormons, and they had to figure out how to a) save up $10,000 as a minor so they could even GO on their mission; and b) live off a couple hundred dollars a month because their full time job is combing the neighborhood looking for converts. It's not an easy thing, and it really is a great character builder. It's not a party, and it sure teaches kids how to live as an adult better than going off to university does.
 
2012-02-08 09:53:04 AM
It's a wonder the country survived the 20th century with all the class warfare that occurred during that time period.
 
2012-02-08 09:56:00 AM

Mike Chewbacca: Wendy's Chili: And Mitt Romney did missionary work overseas. In France! Just imagine being immersed in a culture that doesn't believe in deodorant. I shudder at the thought.

Actually, I would call the Mormon mission hardship. I know several Mormons, and they had to figure out how to a) save up $10,000 as a minor so they could even GO on their mission; and b) live off a couple hundred dollars a month because their full time job is combing the neighborhood looking for converts. It's not an easy thing, and it really is a great character builder. It's not a party, and it sure teaches kids how to live as an adult better than going off to university does.


Yes. Trying to convince everyone you meet to wear magic underwear is much better preparation for life than going to college. You're absolutely right.
 
2012-02-08 09:56:41 AM
If you want to increase the number of people who are paid minimum wage--and are cutting jobs out to increase the number of low paid, and part time positions--and you work tirelessly as a politician to increase the number of low paid, part time positions: what happens to median wages?

Who is going to buy the stuff that is produced?

Overseas markets? Great, we have money coming in, but we don't produce for our own markets. Fantastic idea, IF you are a banker, not so much if you are a distributor. Not so much if you're a grocery. Not so much if you're a farmer. Not so much if you rely on your local markets. And this is why the US Chamber of Commerce is screwed up, because it isn't serving the bulk of the employers. It is serving only the largest players, who like the thought of shipping jobs outside the US market as a savings, and without really caring if anyone here will buy their crap.

At some point, politicians have to look at a larger picture. We need to encourage entrepreneurship. We need to level the playing field for all businesses--not lower the bar for some, and put up restrictions for competition. We need more local investment, we need more competition in our markets. Not less. Not fewer players who ship cash out of the country and out of the system. We need dollars to circulate a bit more, before they wind up in coffers offshore.

That is ultimately the goal for some: cutting down the circulation of dollars in the hands of the folks. The problem being: who is going to buy your crap?
 
2012-02-08 09:56:43 AM

miked1883: All of you who only want the minimum wage to keep track with inflation are heartless, greedy, fatcat pigs.

The minimum wage should be increased to $25 per hour, AT LEAST. How can anyone be reasonably expected to provide for a family of four, pay for college, pay for healthcare, and save for retirement on the current minimum wage?

You know what ... scratch that $25 an hour, it should be $35 ... well no, it should actually be closer to $50 an hour ... in fact, lets just pay everyone $100,000 a year salary - thats the only way to ensure that the single mother with three kids can support her family.


No, I think a floor on wages which at 40 hours per week does not fall below the national poverty line and is indexed to inflation is probably sufficient.

I think the larger question is why you're unable to discuss the topic rationally.
 
2012-02-08 09:57:55 AM

miked1883: All of you who only want the minimum wage to keep track with inflation are heartless, greedy, fatcat pigs.

The minimum wage should be increased to $25 per hour, AT LEAST. How can anyone be reasonably expected to provide for a family of four, pay for college, pay for healthcare, and save for retirement on the current minimum wage?

You know what ... scratch that $25 an hour, it should be $35 ... well no, it should actually be closer to $50 an hour ... in fact, lets just pay everyone $100,000 a year salary - thats the only way to ensure that the single mother with three kids can support her family.


I was wondering how long it would take for one of you people to show up.
 
2012-02-08 09:58:40 AM
I will never understand why poor people vote for the republicans year after year.
 
2012-02-08 10:00:52 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: miked1883: All of you who only want the minimum wage to keep track with inflation are heartless, greedy, fatcat pigs.

The minimum wage should be increased to $25 per hour, AT LEAST. How can anyone be reasonably expected to provide for a family of four, pay for college, pay for healthcare, and save for retirement on the current minimum wage?

You know what ... scratch that $25 an hour, it should be $35 ... well no, it should actually be closer to $50 an hour ... in fact, lets just pay everyone $100,000 a year salary - thats the only way to ensure that the single mother with three kids can support her family.

No, I think a floor on wages which at 40 hours per week does not fall below the national poverty line and is indexed to inflation is probably sufficient.

I think the larger question is why you're unable to discuss the topic rationally.


The market will adjust, increasing prices to soak up all that new money and raising the poverty line. Which, since the minimum wage is indexed, will drive up minimum wage. It would either be effective and create a self-destructive cycle or be so ineffective that it can't enter the cycle.

You don't think loan companies and advertisers would jump on the idea of a higher minimum wage? Look at the spike in house prices over the duration of the tax credit: the average cost of the house rose by more than the credit, because people were incentivized to make decisions and the populace is never more informed than the industry.
 
2012-02-08 10:02:04 AM

miked1883: All of you who only want the minimum wage to keep track with inflation are heartless, greedy, fatcat pigs.

The minimum wage should be increased to $25 per hour, AT LEAST. How can anyone be reasonably expected to provide for a family of four, pay for college, pay for healthcare, and save for retirement on the current minimum wage?

You know what ... scratch that $25 an hour, it should be $35 ... well no, it should actually be closer to $50 an hour ... in fact, lets just pay everyone $100,000 a year salary - thats the only way to ensure that the single mother with three kids can support her family.


4.bp.blogspot.com

Hey retard, we aren't asking to pay a min wage of a million dollars an hour, just a wage that follows inflation. How hard is that to understand?
 
2012-02-08 10:03:24 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: miked1883: All of you who only want the minimum wage to keep track with inflation are heartless, greedy, fatcat pigs.

The minimum wage should be increased to $25 per hour, AT LEAST. How can anyone be reasonably expected to provide for a family of four, pay for college, pay for healthcare, and save for retirement on the current minimum wage?

You know what ... scratch that $25 an hour, it should be $35 ... well no, it should actually be closer to $50 an hour ... in fact, lets just pay everyone $100,000 a year salary - thats the only way to ensure that the single mother with three kids can support her family.

No, I think a floor on wages which at 40 hours per week does not fall below the national poverty line and is indexed to inflation is probably sufficient.

I think the larger question is why you're unable to discuss the topic rationally.


It is a sad, sad disease called douchitis.
 
2012-02-08 10:06:03 AM

miked1883: All of you who only want the minimum wage to keep track with inflation are heartless, greedy, fatcat pigs.

The minimum wage should be increased to $25 per hour, AT LEAST. How can anyone be reasonably expected to provide for a family of four, pay for college, pay for healthcare, and save for retirement on the current minimum wage?

You know what ... scratch that $25 an hour, it should be $35 ... well no, it should actually be closer to $50 an hour ... in fact, lets just pay everyone $100,000 a year salary - thats the only way to ensure that the single mother with three kids can support her family.


You know, every single farking minimum wage thread, some smacked ass comes in here and posts this identical post, I'd suspect a bot was at work, but I'm sure it's really just a collection of idiots incapable of independent thought.

And hey as long as we're playing Reductio ad Absurdum why don't we play it the other way and sarcastically argue for all the wonderful thing s that would happen if we reduced the minimum to $0/hr.

Wait...one of the idiots on your side has already done that, but in complete earnestness: (new window)

"Literally, if we took away the minimum wage-if conceivably it was gone-we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level."
Michelle Bachmann 2005
 
2012-02-08 10:07:20 AM

sprawl15: mekki: Prosperity for all except for the people who are very, very, very, I have more money than God, filthy rich. They are going to have to take in less to cover minimum wage increases.

Eh, minimum wage is kind of a double edged sword. It improves workers' lives, but either cuts down on the number of jobs or increases costs elsewhere. It'd be nice to have a burger flipper making 60 grand a year, but then a Whopper would cost $100.


A Whopper would never cost $100 because no one would pay a $100 for a fast food burger. You can only charge what the public is willing to pay. So, to cover the costs of a wage inflation, Burger King would have to reduce spending elsewhere. (A few less commercials featuring highly paid spokespeople is a good start.)
 
2012-02-08 10:09:00 AM

Magorn: And hey as long as we're playing Reductio ad Absurdum why don't we play it the other way and sarcastically argue for all the wonderful thing s that would happen if we reduced the minimum to $0/hr.

Wait...one of the idiots on your side has already done that, but in complete earnestness: (new window)

"Literally, if we took away the minimum wage-if conceivably it was gone-we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level." Michelle Bachmann 2005


The error is not that there would be a massive number of new jobs opening up, it's in assuming people would take those jobs. Were minimum wage abolished, I'd offer a couple dozen jobs around my house for a nickel an hour. Doesn't mean anyone would take the highbrow jobs I would no doubt offer.
 
2012-02-08 10:09:03 AM

hurdboy: Mike Chewbacca: Like anyone in any of those organizations has tried to survive on minimum wage.

Who earns the minimum wage? Largely, high school and college students -- people who can be claimed on someone else's tax returns, so they can't be counted as unemployed......

Organized labor often tie their pay tiers to the Federal minimum. This is more about removing a political issue from the Democrats than anything else, really. But it also prevents huge jumps like were seen in 2007-2008.

Also gives a bargaining starting point for people who earn more than the minimum.


20% of min wage earners are teenagers.
 
2012-02-08 10:09:18 AM
There are certain issues that are pure political theater and are deliberately ignored until such time that they can presented as a plate full of raw meat to feed to the base. The minimum wage is one of those issues.
 
2012-02-08 10:11:49 AM

sprawl15: The market will adjust, increasing prices to soak up all that new money and raising the poverty line. Which, since the minimum wage is indexed, will drive up minimum wage. It would either be effective and create a self-destructive cycle or be so ineffective that it can't enter the cycle.


You're forgetting that, apart from some necessities which are inflexible, there is a price at which people will not buy. You're also assuming that some retailers will not attempt to hold prices constant or reduce prices on some options in order to increase total sales. Market dynamics are more complex than the picture you paint.

Also, for clarity, I meant set the initial wage floor to the existing federal poverty level and from that point index it to inflation.
 
2012-02-08 10:12:05 AM

mekki: A Whopper would never cost $100 because no one would pay a $100 for a fast food burger. You can only charge what the public is willing to pay.


Which is the point: increasing minimum wage increases what the public is willing to pay. Were everyone doing great and prosperity on the rise, burger prices would go up to meet the increased demand, not down.

mekki: So, to cover the costs of a wage inflation, Burger King would have to reduce spending elsewhere. (A few less commercials featuring highly paid spokespeople is a good start.)


Bullshiat. The first place a company looks to cut costs is the customer, followed by the lowest employees. Raise prices, then fire the worker bees, and finally close branches. They have no reason to cut from the top down when they have golden parachutes. Better to play fast and loose.
 
2012-02-08 10:15:18 AM

sprawl15: Eh, minimum wage is kind of a double edged sword. It improves workers' lives, but either cuts down on the number of jobs or increases costs elsewhere. It'd be nice to have a burger flipper making 60 grand a year, but then a Whopper would cost $100.


Labor costs are about 15% of the cost of fast food. So doubling fast food workers' wages would increase the cost of your dollar value menu cheeseburger by about $0.15. For actual food (you know, in the front section of the grocery store that doesn't come in a box) the labor costs are so tiny that you could double the wages of vegetable pickers and you'd only see like a $0.02 increase in the price per pound at the store.

I would gladly pay an extra $0.50 for my happy meal or $0.02/lb for veggies if I could be reasonably assured that the money would go to peoples' wages.
 
2012-02-08 10:16:06 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: You're forgetting that, apart from some necessities which are inflexible, there is a price at which people will not buy. You're also assuming that some retailers will not attempt to hold prices constant or reduce prices on some options in order to increase total sales. Market dynamics are more complex than the picture you paint.


Of course there are people who will try to manipulate/buck the trend for profit, but the point of equilibrium still shifts. Everything could stay the same and burger prices could go up or down depending on their shenanigans: that this level of natural noise continues to exist is meaningless when talking about the effect of major influxes of money at the lowest levels of society.
 
2012-02-08 10:16:10 AM

Brostorm: 20% of min wage earners are teenagers.


"Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly-paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less."

Link (new window)

Dirty secret? Notsomuch. If you graduated from high school/earn a GED, aren't a convicted felon, and work full-time, unless you show yourself to be a complete idiot, you're probably going to earn more than minimum wage. It doesn't need to be a "living wage."
 
2012-02-08 10:16:28 AM

sprawl15: The error is not that there would be a massive number of new jobs opening up, it's in assuming people would take those jobs. Were minimum wage abolished, I'd offer a couple dozen jobs around my house for a nickel an hour. Doesn't mean anyone would take the highbrow jobs I would no doubt offer.


Her vision is predicated on the absolute desperation of the poor.
 
2012-02-08 10:18:13 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Market dynamics are more complex than the picture you paint.


Everything conservatives need to know about economics they learned from their friend's cousin who took ECON 101 at bible college before he dropped out to become a gold speculator.
 
2012-02-08 10:18:59 AM

ordinarysteve: I will never understand why poor people vote for the republicans year after year.


"Santorum done promised me Jesus will make sure my mansion in heaven has the BIGGEST Dale Jr. flag of all if I vote fer him and make sure them there queerbos don't paint the Washington Monument what for a rainbow pecker!"

That, plus the "sure, I'm a 58-year-old high school dropout pushing a broom at the muffler shop, but someday I'm going to be rich, and when I am, I don't want those filthy POORS taking my money for their Escalade and Champipple parties!"
 
2012-02-08 10:19:27 AM
Labor is a commodity like anything else. If the price is set above the equilibrium point, it will cause unemployment. If it is set below, it will do nothing at all. Bodo's Bagels is hiring people in Charlottesville for $9.50 an hour. Changing the minimum wage to $8.00 won't impact them.

I am a Republican, but I would be for raising the minimum wage because, generally speaking, it would pretty much do nothing to the vast majority of even low-paying jobs but make us look all generous and reasonable. (of all the destructive things government can do, compromising on this one to gain leverage on a more important one is well worth it)
 
2012-02-08 10:20:12 AM

hurdboy: Dirty secret? Notsomuch. If you graduated from high school/earn a GED, aren't a convicted felon, and work full-time, unless you show yourself to be a complete idiot, you're probably going to earn more than minimum wage. It doesn't need to be a "living wage."


What about people who didn't graduate from high school / GED, are a convicted felon, or are on the low end of the IQ scale? Why do these people not need a "living wage"?
 
2012-02-08 10:20:39 AM

the_geek: sprawl15: Eh, minimum wage is kind of a double edged sword. It improves workers' lives, but either cuts down on the number of jobs or increases costs elsewhere. It'd be nice to have a burger flipper making 60 grand a year, but then a Whopper would cost $100.

Labor costs are about 15% of the cost of fast food. So doubling fast food workers' wages would increase the cost of your dollar value menu cheeseburger by about $0.15. For actual food (you know, in the front section of the grocery store that doesn't come in a box) the labor costs are so tiny that you could double the wages of vegetable pickers and you'd only see like a $0.02 increase in the price per pound at the store.

I would gladly pay an extra $0.50 for my happy meal or $0.02/lb for veggies if I could be reasonably assured that the money would go to peoples' wages.


an extra 50 cents a big mac? go back to Russia, komrade
 
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