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(Washington Post)   American public with Bush as president: WE OPPOSE TORTURE. STOP ENDLESS WARS. CLOSE GITMO. American public with Obama as president: Can we get some torture drones with our Gitmo?   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 429
    More: Stupid, George W. Bush, President Obama, Gitmo, Americans, combat operations, counter-terrorism, torture, military prison  
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8211 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Feb 2012 at 10:00 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-08 10:40:55 AM

nekom: hillbillypharmacist: kronicfeld: So Republicans should be happy that they convinced everyone that torture, GITMO and drones are good things, and should support President Obama in his continuation of the policies they championed and fought tenaciously for over the course of almost a decade. Right?

It's funny. Conservatives seem to hate Obama more for doing the things they support than the things they're against.

It probably makes their cognitive dissonance flare up.

It's because he's a Democrat more than anything. They sure despised Clinton for balancing the budget and welfare reform. Yes some of them are ALSO racists, there's bound to be a lot of overlap, but it's mostly partisan hackery.


Would that be the welfare reform he vetoed twice before finally having it shoved down his throat? And the "balanced" budget that relied on more accounting tricks than Enron? Those items?
 
2012-02-08 10:41:08 AM
The smart thing to do for the Republican candidate would be to applaud Obama for continuing and even expanding upon Bush's policies in the war on terror. It's not going to turn conservatives into Obama supporters but I'm sure it will be a nice little reminder to the previously anti-war leftists of their hypocrisy.
 
2012-02-08 10:41:37 AM
Let's cover this one more time. Obama never tried to close Guantanamo. He tried to move it inside the United States.

dl.dropbox.com
dl.dropbox.com

His plan to "close Guantanamo" was to buy a prison in Illinois, move everyone from Guantanamo to that prison and hold them there without charges and without a trial.

The problem with Guantanamo isn't that it is located in the Caribbean. Moving it inside the United States isn't the same thing as either charging the people inside it with a crime or releasing them for lack of evidence.
 
2012-02-08 10:41:45 AM
Hopeville is burning....

Changeburg was destroyed in drone strike....
 
2012-02-08 10:42:06 AM
Inaccurate headline.
Thread full of trolls.
Welcome to Fark.
 
2012-02-08 10:42:11 AM
people want to give Obama a pass on GITMO why ?

What about Bagram Air base in Afghanistan ? You know the lager prison camp where Obama prefers to have people held because they have successfully argued that the prisoners there don't get even the lame "rights" as the guys in GITMO ?

The guy who is using drones to kill people anywhere and everywhere he feels. Who will go on national TV and brag about it when it suits his end game but when anyone tries to challenge it in a court of law they say it is too secret to discuss

All of you folks giving Obama a pass are just as bad as all the folks who gave the same pass to Bush. Obama says he has the authority to kill ANYONE w/o any due process at all.

Secret CIA black sites
Bagram
Drone campaigns
GITMO
War on Whistle blowers etc etc

Obama is doing things Bush only dreamed of getting away with.

Anyone giving Obama a pass on this stuff is just a partisan hack.
 
2012-02-08 10:42:52 AM
TFA: ...failing to live up to all of those promises.

He tried to close the camp, and he has changed our security posture to be more in-line with American laws and values, but don't let things like facts get in the way of a great propaganda piece.
 
2012-02-08 10:43:03 AM

Tatterdemalian: /if the economy doesn't get too much worse, I'll probably vote Obama next election
//we can finally kill the terrorists, and the MSM will help keep Cindy Sheehan gagged


This is it. Everything else this election cycle is just filler.
 
2012-02-08 10:43:08 AM

Snapper Carr: Wendy's Chili: He stopped torture

He didn't stop it so much as subcontract it (new window)


Oh look! It's one of the lying sacks of shiat I was talking about.

Your link doesn't even assert that torture is still being used, let alone prove it.
 
2012-02-08 10:43:18 AM

I_C_Weener: [i586.photobucket.com image 183x142]

What a torture drone might look like.


I often wondered if Vader could feel that he was interrogating his own daughter.
/No not that way you sickos
 
2012-02-08 10:43:47 AM
Subby did a nice summation. Sad but true.
 
2012-02-08 10:43:59 AM
Yes, many Americans wanted and appreciate pragmatic and effective foreign policy.
 
2012-02-08 10:44:07 AM

I_C_Weener: [i586.photobucket.com image 183x142]

What a torture drone might look like.


That's a TETANUS SHOT what is this the DARK AGES?!?
 
2012-02-08 10:44:12 AM

Publikwerks: "torture drones" ?

AWESOME! Can they torture from 35,000 feet?

Man, science


Do they always kill?
 
2012-02-08 10:44:57 AM

Cinaed: Oh right,


Harry Reid.
 
2012-02-08 10:45:22 AM

unlikely: I went to the Republican Caucus last night in Colorado.

They had resolutions on the table that talked about Gitmo - specifically that the party would only back candidates who were going to fight tooth and nail to keep it open and full of muslims.


Would make more sense if they were willing to send our Fundie domestic terrorists that blow up buildings and daycares to Gitmo too. Let them all fight it out in the yard.
 
2012-02-08 10:45:45 AM

Snapper Carr: Obama is, above all else, a political pragmatist. He saw what happened when he tried to close Gitmo at the beginning of his term and he's not seen much evidence that the mood of the country has changed since then.

We're still afraid of the angry brown people.



AND we keep making them angrier!


/Good policy
 
2012-02-08 10:47:04 AM

iollow: Inaccurate headline.
Thread full of trolls
. Plugs ears. LALALALALALALALALALALALA!
Welcome to Fark*.


*Indeed.
 
2012-02-08 10:47:07 AM

Carousel Beast: the "balanced" budget that relied on more accounting tricks than Enron?


Oh bullshiat. The surplus was real. Go ahead and credit it to Newt, a blip from the internet bubble, or the tooth fairy, but lay off the derp enough to accept a reality that isn't the sky is falling and commie hippies from the government are kicking down the door to rape your bung hole and make you drive a Prius.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton /
 
2012-02-08 10:47:39 AM

wmoonfox: TFA: ...failing to live up to all of those promises.

He tried to close the camp, and he has changed our security posture to be more in-line with American laws and values, but don't let things like facts get in the way of a great propaganda piece.


Exactly how has he done that ? Laughable

Unless killing people w/o charging them with crimes is somehow more inline with American Laws and Values.
 
2012-02-08 10:48:22 AM

Flakeloaf: If the plan is to send these inmates to anywhere the rule of law is respected and judges believe in things like evidentiary rules and due process, you'd might as well cut out the middleman and set them free right out of the gate.


Some of them, yes. Certainly there are SOME there who criminal charges could be filed against. But if not, I'm all for letting them go. The way I see it the only right thing is to charge them with a crime, set them free, or classify them as prisoners of war and act accordingly. As long as some of them have been in there, if they know anything they've either spilled the beans by now or they just ain't going to.
 
2012-02-08 10:48:54 AM

wmoonfox: TFA: ...failing to live up to all of those promises.

He tried to close the camp, and he has changed our security posture to be more in-line with American laws and values, but don't let things like facts get in the way of a great propaganda piece.


As has been stated, if he could get Obamacare passed, he could have closed GITMO...but more importantly, his plan was to close GITMO, Cuba, and open GITMO, Mainland.
 
2012-02-08 10:48:57 AM

Vodka Zombie: I hate the weak grasp authoritarians have when it comes to the notion of compromise.


And I hate the weak grasp that partisans have on the notion of the rule of law.

You don't get to pick and choose which presidential authorities become rooted in the office. Your vote for him will signal acquiescence for all of it. I will not vote for him because the good that he has done does not come anywhere close to the damage caused by his providing a bipartisan imprimatur to gross violations of the rule of law.
 
2012-02-08 10:49:58 AM
So vote Republican, because they're totally against idiotic warmongering and torture, right?
 
2012-02-08 10:50:41 AM

kindms: What about Bagram Air base in Afghanistan ?


Blah blah blah. Prison camps in war zones are by their nature temporary. It'll go when we leave the theater. Gitmo was deliberately set up to be in a location where it could stay forever yet, by legal quirks, could be argued to be outside the jurisdiction of the courts.

That's a BIG difference. The ONLY reason the prison was set up in Gitmo was as an attempt to avoid Constitutional checks from the Judicial branch. I'd think conservatives would be annoyed by a blatant and deliberate effort to subvert the constitution with a massive executive branch power branch, but live and learn I guess.
 
2012-02-08 10:52:19 AM
Some of us have been against all of it from the beginning, and still are.

/Voted for Nader
//Three times
///[Runs away]
 
2012-02-08 10:52:36 AM
So the American people prefer a pragmatic strategy using tactical strikes to fight terrorism rathar than the costly invasion & nation building strategy alternative. Color me shocked.
 
2012-02-08 10:52:44 AM
Would make more sense if they were willing to send our Fundie domestic terrorists that blow up buildings and daycares to Gitmo too. Let them all fight it out in the yard.

And how many of these "Fundie domestic terrorists" are there at the moment?
 
2012-02-08 10:52:47 AM

James!: And by the by, Obama opposes torture, the wars are ending and he attempted to close gitmo then congress through an absolute fit. He's two for three.


Iran sanctions, asset freezing and drone strikes are not "ending wars," it's paving the way for a new one.
 
2012-02-08 10:53:24 AM

I_C_Weener: wmoonfox: TFA: ...failing to live up to all of those promises.

He tried to close the camp, and he has changed our security posture to be more in-line with American laws and values, but don't let things like facts get in the way of a great propaganda piece.

As has been stated, if he could get Obamacare passed, he could have closed GITMO...but more importantly, his plan was to close GITMO, Cuba, and open GITMO, Mainland.


It's beyond disingenuous for Democrats to find a limit to presidential authority in the prosecution of war when it comes to closing GITMO when this alleged limit doesn't apply anywhere else.
 
2012-02-08 10:53:25 AM

nekom: Flakeloaf: If the plan is to send these inmates to anywhere the rule of law is respected and judges believe in things like evidentiary rules and due process, you'd might as well cut out the middleman and set them free right out of the gate.

Some of them, yes. Certainly there are SOME there who criminal charges could be filed against. But if not, I'm all for letting them go. The way I see it the only right thing is to charge them with a crime, set them free, or classify them as prisoners of war and act accordingly. As long as some of them have been in there, if they know anything they've either spilled the beans by now or they just ain't going to.


It is sad that very few support this view. Yet they biatch about backscatter machines.
 
2012-02-08 10:53:45 AM

kindms: Exactly how has he done that ? Laughable


Have you seen any razor-wire "free speech zones" and mass-arrests of protesters under the guise of national security, as there was during the 2004 RNC? No? Then shut the hell up.

I_C_Weener: As has been stated, if he could get Obamacare passed, he could have closed GITMO...


He didn't get Obamacare proper passed. You are engaging in a staggering level of intellectual dishonesty if you are implying that he got what he wanted there.
 
2012-02-08 10:55:41 AM

James F. Campbell: So vote Republican, because they're totally against idiotic warmongering and torture, right?


Not this year. McCain was against it...but that didn't convince too many of you liberals to support him. Instead you attacked him as not the 2000 McCain. So, now we get a group that are at least nominally for continuation of Bush/Obama policies...or are Ron Paul.
 
2012-02-08 10:56:17 AM
If I remember correctly - and I think I do - President Bush also had broad support from the public on his War on Terror TM and that people of conscience were outraged about the torture and other abuses. We still are. But, don't forget that President Obama has a lot of fan bois, who will drink any Kool-aide the president's communications team serves. Obama could start killing kittens in the Rose Garden and kitten-killing would become the new hipster thing to do.

In reality, Obama's policy is really not that much different from Bush's.
 
2012-02-08 10:56:18 AM

kindms: wmoonfox: TFA: ...failing to live up to all of those promises.

He tried to close the camp, and he has changed our security posture to be more in-line with American laws and values, but don't let things like facts get in the way of a great propaganda piece.

Exactly how has he done that ? Laughable

Unless killing people w/o charging them with crimes is somehow more inline with American Laws and Values.


Therefore, every President in office when there was any sort of conflict going on with American involvement is a war criminal. Because people died without a trial, after all.
 
2012-02-08 10:56:19 AM
I'm glad they included a picture of the children they polled.
www.washingtonpost.com


Everyone brought up under the "terrorists want to kill you, they attacked us" mentality.
Now, who wants ice cream?
 
2012-02-08 10:57:25 AM

I_C_Weener: As has been stated, if he could get Obamacare passed, he could have closed GITMO.


Bullshiat. Lieberman is NOT A DEMOCRAT, not even in name (he literally gave a speech at the Republican caucus endorsing John McCain for president, not to mention he had to beat a Democrat to be elected to the Senate), and he would have NEVER agreed to close Gitmo.

Which leads to only three possible explanations for your comment:
1. You're a liar
2. You honestly don't know that Lieberman burned his D card with the heat of his McCain love
3. You're trolling (somewhat badly, your post to bite ratio is sad enough I'm throwing ya this bone)
 
2012-02-08 10:57:28 AM
to all the partisan douches on the politics tab, please give me some of whatever substance you are on that lets you see this batshiat crazy rose colored world....

screaming for Bush's head on a pike for the "war crime" clusterfark that is Gitmo while doing mental backflips trying to justify Obama's lack of following through campaign promises is pretty farking hilarious when you look at it from a distance. Just like the equally pathetic repub flip flop stance on bailouts under Bush vs Obama.

/welcome to the Fark Politics Tab, i know...
 
2012-02-08 10:59:40 AM

JackieRabbit: In reality, Obama's policy is really not that much different from Bush's.


Except Obama is much better at them. So I don't find it surprising that those who weren't comfortable with these policies under Bush may be inclined to change their opinion of them under Obama.
 
2012-02-08 11:01:15 AM

I_C_Weener: James F. Campbell: So vote Republican, because they're totally against idiotic warmongering and torture, right?

Not this year. McCain was against it...but that didn't convince too many of you liberals to support him. Instead you attacked him as not the 2000 McCain. So, now we get a group that are at least nominally for continuation of Bush/Obama policies...or are Ron Paul.


Ahahaha, bullshiat.

RON PAUL voted for the AUMF. The very AUMF that granted the government the power to indefinitely detain whoever they damn well pleased. Y'know, the thing they blame on a rider stuck into the NDAA (Which RON PAUL didn't even bother to symbolically vote against).

Nice to see another sucker fell for Paul's scam, though. How's that snake oil taste?

It's dishonest enough to pretend Obama is just like Bush, but the morons who think RON PAUL is anything more than a typical Republican who found a group of easy marks to exploit just make me laugh.
/CON PAUL.
 
2012-02-08 11:01:19 AM
Obama is waging the kind of war Bush could have, and should have, waged.

You know, instead of the whole, fabricating evidence in order to destroy a country full of innocent people that hadn't actually had any responsibility for attacking us.
 
2012-02-08 11:03:20 AM
Too bad this guy "isn't electable"....

martybraemer.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-02-08 11:03:24 AM

Karma Curmudgeon: It's beyond disingenuous for Democrats to find a limit to presidential authority in the prosecution of war when it comes to closing GITMO when this alleged limit doesn't apply anywhere else.


Gitmo ONLY exists to subvert the Constitution.

I kinda think that's a big issue. War time detention where combatants should just be thankful they weren't shot dead is (Constitutionally) fine and dandy. And it happens on the battlefield. Can you find any biatching about Bagram under Bush?

Setting up a permanent personal jail for the Executive branch on a bit of land the US owns but can argue the Supreme Court doesn't have jurisdiction over is bullshiat.
 
2012-02-08 11:03:47 AM

Surpheon: I_C_Weener: As has been stated, if he could get Obamacare passed, he could have closed GITMO.

Bullshiat. Lieberman is NOT A DEMOCRAT, not even in name (he literally gave a speech at the Republican caucus endorsing John McCain for president, not to mention he had to beat a Democrat to be elected to the Senate), and he would have NEVER agreed to close Gitmo.

Which leads to only three possible explanations for your comment:
1. You're a liar
2. You honestly don't know that Lieberman burned his D card with the heat of his McCain love
3. You're trolling (somewhat badly, your post to bite ratio is sad enough I'm throwing ya this bone)


Obamacare...something that took 60 years to get...and was hugely unpopular. He got that passed. And yet, he can't get a simple very American thing like due process and access to courts by trying the prisoners at GITMO? You are serious that he could not have done that if it were truly that important to him?

If I supported him, I'd be ashamed that he gave up so easily...probably ashamed that I thought he'd do it in the first place. As it is, it is one more area that I put in the "don't like about him" column just like with Bush.
 
2012-02-08 11:06:40 AM
Reality: This. Subby: 1/This.
 
2012-02-08 11:07:44 AM

Evil Mackerel: I_C_Weener: [i586.photobucket.com image 183x142]

What a torture drone might look like.

I often wondered if Vader could feel that he was interrogating his own daughter.
/No not that way you sickos


Well now, what IF Vader was a pedo? I mean look at all the other shiat he would do just for looking at him funny. How do we know he didn't mindwarp the younglings into molesting themselves before he killed them?
 
2012-02-08 11:08:22 AM

I_C_Weener: Obamacare...something that took 60 years to get...and was hugely unpopular. He got that passed. And yet, he can't get a simple very American thing like due process and access to courts by trying the prisoners at GITMO? You are serious that he could not have done that if it were truly that important to him?


How is closing gitmo an "simple thing" in any sense of the phrase? Your argument is the equivalent of "Well you hit a home run in the first inning, why didn't you hit one in the fourth? Obviously it wasn't that important to you."
 
2012-02-08 11:10:33 AM

LordJiro: kindms: wmoonfox: TFA: ...failing to live up to all of those promises.

He tried to close the camp, and he has changed our security posture to be more in-line with American laws and values, but don't let things like facts get in the way of a great propaganda piece.

Exactly how has he done that ? Laughable

Unless killing people w/o charging them with crimes is somehow more inline with American Laws and Values.

Therefore, every President in office when there was any sort of conflict going on with American involvement is a war criminal. Because people died without a trial, after all.




Nice blur.
 
2012-02-08 11:10:37 AM

I_C_Weener: James F. Campbell: So vote Republican, because they're totally against idiotic warmongering and torture, right?

Not this year. McCain was against it...but that didn't convince too many of you liberals to support him. Instead you attacked him as not the 2000 McCain. So, now we get a group that are at least nominally for continuation of Bush/Obama policies...or are Ron Paul.


Yeah.... about that. His position on torture has always been a bit muddled.

Yes, I know it's the Huffpost, but still
 
2012-02-08 11:10:42 AM
I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free...

God bless the USA!
 
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