I'll sum up the article: "We still don't know anything but imagine what could happen! Please support our sponsors."

FTA: "His well-being is on the line."

No, no it's not. He's not at risk for further neck injury than any other player in the NFL. The Colts neurosurgeon, Dr. Feuer, said, "If you were my own son, I'd tell [you] to go play."

The nerves in his arm need to finish regenerating. That doesn't risk further injury though.

It's the NFL. No one cares how good you were until five years after you leave. Even the best get cut when they can't play, or their contracts don't make business sense anymore. That's the game.

If he's done with football, he should go work full time for the United Way.

Peyton will still go down as better. People don't consider Trent Dilfer better than Dan Marino just because he has an extra superbowl ring.

Shaggy_C: I'll sum up the article: "We still don't know anything but imagine what could happen! Please support our sponsors."

[i39.tinypic.com image 640x361]

It wasn't that well written. GAH!! My eyes!!

kukukupo: Peyton will still go down as better. People don't consider Trent Dilfer better than Dan Marino just because he has an extra superbowl ring.

You'd be surprised how many people think the exact opposite. Plenty, not all, of Pats fans used to scream this when Brady was showing off his three rings, I almost choked on my bagel when I was reading something on a Pats blog advocating a trade of Brady. They noted he had actually been much better in the non SB winning seasons, and the team had gotten worse overall. One of the responses was: "While others have suggested that Brady is no longer as good in the clutch, that the old, ice water in the veins that he used to have is no longer there, this argument does not truly hold water. Football is far too much of a team sport to blame any one player alone for a team's failures. And statistics "in the clutch" always rely on such small sample sizes as to be statistically irrelevant."

"we're suddenly asking the somewhat legitimate question of which Manning will go down in history as the better quarterback."

No one with a rational understanding of football has Eli in the same class as Peyton. Eli is somewhere in the neighborhood of an 82 QB rating in his career, he's had a career completion percentage of around 58%...Peyton has a passer rating of 95, completion percentage of 65%, way better stats overall.

Eli has two titles...sure...but he didn't CARRY that team on his shoulders. he's made some good plays this season, but his overall body of work isn't bettter than Peyton's, no way. If titles make great QBs, then Jim McMahon is better than Dan Marino. So is Trent Dilfer. Titles are a team thing, not an individual thing.

dont' get me wrong...I'd take Eli over at least half the starters in the NFL right now. But over Peyton? come on...

redmid17: The Colts neurosurgeon, Dr. Feuer, said, "If you were my own son, I'd tell [you] to go play."

Would you trust Dr. "Fire" for anything?

Genju: redmid17: The Colts neurosurgeon, Dr. Feuer, said, "If you were my own son, I'd tell [you] to go play."

Would you trust Dr. "Fire" for anything?

Well the surgeon who did Manning's surgery and the team doctor both said his neck was fixed and in good shape. Kelvin Hayden, a former Colts player, had the same surgery that Manning did and played most of the season with the Falcons. CB is a lot more physical of a position than QB.

"In February, Hayden had a neck fusion to take care of pain that had plagued him towards the end of the 2011 season. He was able to recover during the off-season and make an immediate impact in the Falcons lineup at the start of the year.

This is the same procedure that Peyton Manning underwent just before the season began and he remains out of the lineup as the fusion continues to take place.

"In a month-or-two I felt like I could get back into things but the doctors said they wanted to sit down for three-or-four months and just let the thing heal and just rest," said Hayden of his recovery. "They didn't want me doing any running or anything like that but once I got going I really didn't feel anything."

FTA: "Peyton Manning was the unanimous number one draft pick in the 1998 draft"

IIRC, there was a lot of hemming and hawing over who would go first, Manning or Leaf. I mean, with 20-20 hindsight that seems hysterical, but it was a discussion at the time.

The only image change in progress is one from White and Blue to Orange and Teal.

WinoRhino: FTA: "Peyton Manning was the unanimous number one draft pick in the 1998 draft"

IIRC, there was a lot of hemming and hawing over who would go first, Manning or Leaf. I mean, with 20-20 hindsight that seems hysterical, but it was a discussion at the time.

To be fair, every team that picked first in that draft took Manning, which would make it unanimous.

"we're suddenly asking the somewhat legitimate question of which Manning will go down in history as the better quarterback."

This question can't even be asked yet. At this point in time Eli has had a couple of good seasons. Peyton has had a good career. Now if Eli can maintain his current level of play (or be better) over the next 5 to 8 years, then you can be talking about this. But Eli could flame out next season (or be plagued by injuries) and never recover and in 10 years this would sound like the dumbest concept ever.

So let Eli play out his career before trying to decide if he was or wasn't a better QB than Peyton.

Image change? Is he going from a face to a heel?

"THAT'S HOLLYWOOD FETUSFACE'S MUSIC!!!"

WinoRhino: FTA: "Peyton Manning was the unanimous number one draft pick in the 1998 draft"

IIRC, there was a lot of hemming and hawing over who would go first, Manning or Leaf. I mean, with 20-20 hindsight that seems hysterical, but it was a discussion at the time.

it wasnt on the same level, but the Bulls were debating between Derrick Rose and Michael Beasly and it wasnt that cut and dried.

Brother_Mouzone: WinoRhino: FTA: "Peyton Manning was the unanimous number one draft pick in the 1998 draft"

IIRC, there was a lot of hemming and hawing over who would go first, Manning or Leaf. I mean, with 20-20 hindsight that seems hysterical, but it was a discussion at the time.

it wasnt on the same level, but the Bulls were debating between Derrick Rose and Michael Beasly and it wasnt that cut and dried.

I still can't believe the Rockets took Hakeem over Bowie.

The smart thing for Peyton to do is to become a coach, and stay off the field. I figure he's smart enough to know this too, but he's also competitive enough to ignore reason and try to get a few more rings before his body craps out on him completely.

kudayta: The smart thing for Peyton to do is to become a coach, and stay off the field. I figure he's smart enough to know this too, but he's also competitive enough to ignore reason and try to get a few more rings before his body craps out on him completely.

You realize the only thing keeping him from playing right now is nerve regeneration right? He's at no more risk for a debilitating neck injury than other player in the NFL now that the fusion is properly healed.

kukukupo: Peyton will still go down as better. People don't consider Trent Dilfer better than Dan Marino just because he has an extra superbowl ring.

Jim Plunkett is obviously better than Peyton Manning.

Yep and after Brady/Manning(s)/Brees/Rodgers, watch for this guy to lead the next elite class of NFL QBs.

Pats w/o Brady: 11-5

Colts w/o Manning: 2-14

/that is all
//both are all time top 10

Manning's issue is not his neck, its his nerve -- specifically, the C7 nerve, which supplies the triceps. Ask paraplegics how well injured nerves regenerate. (Extreme example, but principles are the same)

Weak triceps = QB career over

ihatedumbpeople: "we're suddenly asking the somewhat legitimate question of which Manning will go down in history as the better quarterback."

No one with a rational understanding of football has Eli in the same class as Peyton. Eli is somewhere in the neighborhood of an 82 QB rating in his career, he's had a career completion percentage of around 58%...Peyton has a passer rating of 95, completion percentage of 65%, way better stats overall.

Eli has two titles...sure...but he didn't CARRY that team on his shoulders. he's made some good plays this season, but his overall body of work isn't bettter than Peyton's, no way. If titles make great QBs, then Jim McMahon is better than Dan Marino. So is Trent Dilfer. Titles are a team thing, not an individual thing.

dont' get me wrong...I'd take Eli over at least half the starters in the NFL right now. But over Peyton? come on...

And we're done here.

Banned on the Run: Manning's issue is not his neck, its his nerve -- specifically, the C7 nerve, which supplies the triceps. Ask paraplegics how well injured nerves regenerate. (Extreme example, but principles are the same)

Weak triceps = QB career over

There have been many players who've had that specific surgery and come back to play. It's not the greatest example, but Chris Weinke had that surgery in college and went on to play in the NFL (kind of). He didn't fail out of the league because of physical atrophy or weak triceps. He failed out because he was a shiatty excuse for a QB and old to boot. I think we can agree than Manning is a few rungs above Weinke in the whole QB department.

FTFA: Eli just added some intrigue. With one more Super Bowl ring (than his brother), we're suddenly asking the somewhat legitimate question of which Manning will go down in history as the better quarterback.


Like the somewhat legitimate question about Robert Horry being better than Michael Jordan?

redmid17: kudayta: The smart thing for Peyton to do is to become a coach, and stay off the field. I figure he's smart enough to know this too, but he's also competitive enough to ignore reason and try to get a few more rings before his body craps out on him completely.

You realize the only thing keeping him from playing right now is nerve regeneration right? He's at no more risk for a debilitating neck injury than other player in the NFL now that the fusion is properly healed.

Yes, of course. But we both know football is a rough game, and Peyton's gonna be 36 years old this year. The smart thing to do is to become a coach. The competitive thing to do is stick it out.

kudayta: redmid17: kudayta: The smart thing for Peyton to do is to become a coach, and stay off the field. I figure he's smart enough to know this too, but he's also competitive enough to ignore reason and try to get a few more rings before his body craps out on him completely.

You realize the only thing keeping him from playing right now is nerve regeneration right? He's at no more risk for a debilitating neck injury than other player in the NFL now that the fusion is properly healed.

Yes, of course. But we both know football is a rough game, and Peyton's gonna be 36 years old this year. The smart thing to do is to become a coach. The competitive thing to do is stick it out.

So you want him to turn down $60 million dollars to coach, when he can do that after he is finished playing through his contract AND he's at no more risk for a crippling injury than any other NFL player (quite a bit more so IMHO because he's so adept at avoid serious tackles). I'm glad you're not a financial adviser. Most people think he's going to do television after he retires anyway.

teknophile4385: Yep and after Brady/Manning(s)/Brees/Rodgers, watch for this guy to lead the next elite class of NFL QBs.

[www.nflpassers.com image 512x380]

If he can put together a few complete, injury free, seasons, he can be a beast (as he was this year). He's just got to stay healthy...

redmid17: kudayta: redmid17: kudayta: The smart thing for Peyton to do is to become a coach, and stay off the field. I figure he's smart enough to know this too, but he's also competitive enough to ignore reason and try to get a few more rings before his body craps out on him completely.

You realize the only thing keeping him from playing right now is nerve regeneration right? He's at no more risk for a debilitating neck injury than other player in the NFL now that the fusion is properly healed.

Yes, of course. But we both know football is a rough game, and Peyton's gonna be 36 years old this year. The smart thing to do is to become a coach. The competitive thing to do is stick it out.

So you want him to turn down $60 million dollars to coach, when he can do that after he is finished playing through his contract AND he's at no more risk for a crippling injury than any other NFL player (quite a bit more so IMHO because he's so adept at avoid serious tackles). I'm glad you're not a financial adviser. Most people think he's going to do television after he retires anyway.

Yeah, television would work too. And I'm not of the opinion that 60 million is enough money to compensate the amount of long term damage that is done to the body over (what would be) a 17 year NFL career. He's got kids now, and all the money he's ever going to need. I imagine he's gonna want to play with them as they grow up, which he might not be able to do if his body craps out on him completely.

kudayta: redmid17: kudayta: redmid17: kudayta: The smart thing for Peyton to do is to become a coach, and stay off the field. I figure he's smart enough to know this too, but he's also competitive enough to ignore reason and try to get a few more rings before his body craps out on him completely.

You realize the only thing keeping him from playing right now is nerve regeneration right? He's at no more risk for a debilitating neck injury than other player in the NFL now that the fusion is properly healed.

Yes, of course. But we both know football is a rough game, and Peyton's gonna be 36 years old this year. The smart thing to do is to become a coach. The competitive thing to do is stick it out.

So you want him to turn down $60 million dollars to coach, when he can do that after he is finished playing through his contract AND he's at no more risk for a crippling injury than any other NFL player (quite a bit more so IMHO because he's so adept at avoid serious tackles). I'm glad you're not a financial adviser. Most people think he's going to do television after he retires anyway.

Yeah, television would work too. And I'm not of the opinion that 60 million is enough money to compensate the amount of long term damage that is done to the body over (what would be) a 17 year NFL career. He's got kids now, and all the money he's ever going to need. I imagine he's gonna want to play with them as they grow up, which he might not be able to do if his body craps out on him completely.

Theismann is still alive after a career ending injury and it didn't hamper his life. You are overestimating the damage he would get. Most qbs half his age have taken more hits

If you swapped Mannings (Eli on the Colts, Peyton on the Giants) during Eli's rookie year, how many Super Bowls would they have won, each?

kudayta: redmid17: kudayta: redmid17: kudayta: The smart thing for Peyton to do is to become a coach, and stay off the field. I figure he's smart enough to know this too, but he's also competitive enough to ignore reason and try to get a few more rings before his body craps out on him completely.

You realize the only thing keeping him from playing right now is nerve regeneration right? He's at no more risk for a debilitating neck injury than other player in the NFL now that the fusion is properly healed.

Yes, of course. But we both know football is a rough game, and Peyton's gonna be 36 years old this year. The smart thing to do is to become a coach. The competitive thing to do is stick it out.

So you want him to turn down $60 million dollars to coach, when he can do that after he is finished playing through his contract AND he's at no more risk for a crippling injury than any other NFL player (quite a bit more so IMHO because he's so adept at avoid serious tackles). I'm glad you're not a financial adviser. Most people think he's going to do television after he retires anyway.

Yeah, television would work too. And I'm not of the opinion that 60 million is enough money to compensate the amount of long term damage that is done to the body over (what would be) a 17 year NFL career. He's got kids now, and all the money he's ever going to need. I imagine he's gonna want to play with them as they grow up, which he might not be able to do if his body craps out on him completely.

Even if he comes back and can't make anything happen immediately, there's an old man with the last name of Warner that proves the old "Try, try again" adage. Take two or three years off to heal and come back and go to another super bowl rather than pushing it now and completely crippling your body.

redmid17: Banned on the Run: Manning's issue is not his neck, its his nerve -- specifically, the C7 nerve, which supplies the triceps. Ask paraplegics how well injured nerves regenerate. (Extreme example, but principles are the same)

Weak triceps = QB career over

There have been many players who've had that specific surgery and come back to play. It's not the greatest example, but Chris Weinke had that surgery in college and went on to play in the NFL (kind of). He didn't fail out of the league because of physical atrophy or weak triceps. He failed out because he was a shiatty excuse for a QB and old to boot. I think we can agree than Manning is a few rungs above Weinke in the whole QB department.

Not everyone who has a discectomy/fusion has radiculopathy (nerve damage).
Daryl Johnston had a fusion and resumed his career as a battering ram.
The surgery isn't the issue.

kudayta: The competitive thing to do is stick it out.

His neck? That seems dangerous.

Banned on the Run: redmid17: Banned on the Run: Manning's issue is not his neck, its his nerve -- specifically, the C7 nerve, which supplies the triceps. Ask paraplegics how well injured nerves regenerate. (Extreme example, but principles are the same)

Weak triceps = QB career over

There have been many players who've had that specific surgery and come back to play. It's not the greatest example, but Chris Weinke had that surgery in college and went on to play in the NFL (kind of). He didn't fail out of the league because of physical atrophy or weak triceps. He failed out because he was a shiatty excuse for a QB and old to boot. I think we can agree than Manning is a few rungs above Weinke in the whole QB department.

Not everyone who has a discectomy/fusion has radiculopathy (nerve damage).
Daryl Johnston had a fusion and resumed his career as a battering ram.
The surgery isn't the issue.

But people have AND come back, ESPN's resident doctor said he gave it about a 90% chance that Manning plays in the NFL next year.

I really don't think Peyton's image is going to take a hit, no matter how this turns out. Indianapolis will still love him, and if anything we'll turn on Irsay if he doesn't handle this in a respectful manner. His new city and team will love him, at least initially, for the potential and attention he brings. Now if his play isn't up to his usual standards, that relationship might not stay so rosy, but I think most people will understand that it was the injury and not Manning himself that would be responsible. But his new team can't be too disappointed if he doesn't work out, considering he's willing to tie his salary almost completely to his ability to perform, so he won't put them in the hole for years to come just for taking a chance on him. But the great thing for Peyton is he's pretty much excused no matter how he plays from now on; if it's bad we blame the injury, if it's good we all marvel at how he overcame adversity to stay one of the greats.

If he can't bother to proofread his article, I'm not putting any stock in his predictions.

redmid17: kukukupo: Peyton will still go down as better. People don't consider Trent Dilfer better than Dan Marino just because he has an extra superbowl ring.

You'd be surprised how many people think the exact opposite. Plenty, not all, of Pats fans used to scream this when Brady was showing off his three rings, I almost choked on my bagel when I was reading something on a Pats blog advocating a trade of Brady. They noted he had actually been much better in the non SB winning seasons, and the team had gotten worse overall. One of the responses was: "While others have suggested that Brady is no longer as good in the clutch, that the old, ice water in the veins that he used to have is no longer there, this argument does not truly hold water. Football is far too much of a team sport to blame any one player alone for a team's failures. And statistics "in the clutch" always rely on such small sample sizes as to be statistically irrelevant."

"I'll kill a snitch. I'm not saying I have. I'm not saying I haven't."

You know, there are plenty of QBs that have had great seasons, and there are plenty of QBs that have had long careers, but no one...NO ONE...has ever had consistent greatness for such a long period of time as Peyton Manning.

"While doing this project, I have spent hours and hours staring at quarterback records: the stat lines, their playoff records, John Maxymuk's Quarterback Abstract, old encyclopedias, game logs. I had to study Steve Young and Joe Montana, all the Cowboys greats, the 1950s legends and AFL guys. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in any of the records like Manning's body of work over the last decade."

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I personally would put Peyton Manning slightly ahead of Brady on the GQBOAT list, but only barely. So yeah, Brady's team went 11-5 the year Pollard took out his chassis, but a 5 game drop is huge. With Manning out, the Colts drop 8 games. Both teams, without their QBs, took significant hits so to not give Brady his due is like saying the Colts would have sucked balls this year anyways.