Right. Because the city has all kinds of money lying around for sweetheart tax deals and infrastructure improvements for sports teams.

Kreist.

Benevolent Misanthrope: Right. Because the city has all kinds of money lying around for sweetheart tax deals and infrastructure improvements for sports teams.

Kreist.

Somebody DNRTFA...

"What if the group that includes former Sonics president Wally Walker can accumulate enough property south of Safeco Field and gain a few concessions from the Seattle City Council (an increase in the hotel-motel tax, a surcharge on tickets) to build an arena that will be predominantly privately funded?"

NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL...what's the fifth? They're getting a PCL team?

seumasokelly: Benevolent Misanthrope: Right. Because the city has all kinds of money lying around for sweetheart tax deals and infrastructure improvements for sports teams.

Kreist.

Somebody DNRTFA...

"What if the group that includes former Sonics president Wally Walker can accumulate enough property south of Safeco Field and gain a few concessions from the Seattle City Council (an increase in the hotel-motel tax, a surcharge on tickets) to build an arena that will be predominantly privately funded?"

Someone did RTFA and has been a government employee here long enough to know how it works. Private funds dry up and the city is on the hook for the over-budget arena, so they shift money into Enterprise and Other Non-General Government and issue LGTO Bonds (repayable later) to cover what needs to be done so they don't lose matching money and other payables. Then there are the streets and transit to be considered - which is what "infrastructure" means, by the way. To do that, the city then raids the pension and insurance funds in order to make the deals with the "private investors" who buy them their council seats, and have the workers pay it back the next year by jacking up their premiums and retirement contributions. And they move more money fro general Fund to Other Non-General, plus take money from general Government - like, street cleaning, libraries, that sort of thing - and move it into Payables to pay back those bonds that the "private investors" bought - with interest.

Have you ever read a City budget? This is how it works. Or, if you're not willing to look at how governmental finance works, you can always go back and watch the Simpsons monorail episode for a quick overview.

Benevolent Misanthrope: seumasokelly: Benevolent Misanthrope: Right. Because the city has all kinds of money lying around for sweetheart tax deals and infrastructure improvements for sports teams.

Kreist.

Somebody DNRTFA...

"What if the group that includes former Sonics president Wally Walker can accumulate enough property south of Safeco Field and gain a few concessions from the Seattle City Council (an increase in the hotel-motel tax, a surcharge on tickets) to build an arena that will be predominantly privately funded?"

Someone did RTFA and has been a government employee here long enough to know how it works. Private funds dry up and the city is on the hook for the over-budget arena, so they shift money into Enterprise and Other Non-General Government and issue LGTO Bonds (repayable later) to cover what needs to be done so they don't lose matching money and other payables. Then there are the streets and transit to be considered - which is what "infrastructure" means, by the way. To do that, the city then raids the pension and insurance funds in order to make the deals with the "private investors" who buy them their council seats, and have the workers pay it back the next year by jacking up their premiums and retirement contributions. And they move more money fro general Fund to Other Non-General, plus take money from general Government - like, street cleaning, libraries, that sort of thing - and move it into Payables to pay back those bonds that the "private investors" bought - with interest.

Have you ever read a City budget? This is how it works. Or, if you're not willing to look at how governmental finance works, you can always go back and watch the Simpsons monorail episode for a quick overview.

Yeah, except this scenario has a financial backer willing to privately fund the vast majority of an arena, hence the minimal public financing that would be covered by hospitality and ticket taxes as opposed to the sales tax increases and whatnot that were implemented for Safeco Field and the CLink. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, I'm saying that it's extremely unlikely to happen the same way this time due to the jaded attitude of the population. If hundreds of millions of dollars in financing was forced thru a la Safeco Field, everyone involved would become unelectable. This plan, in order to work, requires a well-financed group, and word is that it does.

GAT_00: NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL...what's the fifth? They're getting a PCL team?

MLS. They outdraw NHL & NBA.

seumasokelly: GAT_00: NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL...what's the fifth? They're getting a PCL team?

MLS. They outdraw NHL & NBA.

Snark. You fail at it.

GAT_00: seumasokelly: GAT_00: NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL...what's the fifth? They're getting a PCL team?

MLS. They outdraw NHL & NBA.

Snark. You fail at it.

No...you are...the one that is...a...failer. :-/

seumasokelly: Yeah, except this scenario has a financial backer willing to privately fund the vast majority of an arena, hence the minimal public financing that would be covered by hospitality and ticket taxes as opposed to the sales tax increases and whatnot that were implemented for Safeco Field and the CLink. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, I'm saying that it's extremely unlikely to happen the same way this time due to the jaded attitude of the population. If hundreds of millions of dollars in financing was forced thru a la Safeco Field, everyone involved would become unelectable. This plan, in order to work, requires a well-financed group, and word is that it does.

OK - I understand what you're getting at, but you don't seem to understand my premise - that the backers, if they run true to form, will woefully underfund their "privately funded" arena, and the city will have to pick it up. It happens Every. Damn. Time. Cities spend tons on privately funded sports complexes.

Also, is that "private investor" group going to handle the streets, transit, and other infrastructure? Are they going to pay the same taxes on this new arena that the businesses it displaces would? Are they going to reimburse the city for the parking and ticket revenue that will be lost? There's alot more to think about than taking someone's word that they're good for it, really, uh-huh, honest, they are.

In other words, I'll believe it when I see it. And I sincerely hope the council has better sense than to fall for it right now.

Don't we already have enough professional sports teams that can't have a winning season?

seumasokelly: MLS. They outdraw NHL & NBA.

But soccer is a kids game, or something suitable for women to do. But then, so is baseball....

There are four sports!

I really hope they do not get expansion teams in either the NHL or NBA. The talent is watered down to the point where both leagues really should consider contraction.

SharkTrager: It's also played in a stadium that holds 4x as many people. Well, it would if they didn't have to tarp off 1/3 of the seats so they could claim a "sellout".

It's fewer games in a larger stadium with cheaper tickets.

But it lets soccer fans think they're a big deal in America, so whatever.

/and soon enough they probably will be
//blech

TheJoe03: I also think the only reason Seattle supports the Sounders so much is because the Sonics were stolen from them

Plus hipsters.They'll draw well in the PNW mostly thanks to hipsters.

TheJoe03: probably another southern team could be moved as well.

You had better not be referring to my Preds. Besides, we actually like our team here, unlike most Southern teams.

TheJoe03: seumasokelly: MLS. They outdraw NHL & NBA.

They play in bigger stadiums and they probably can't draw even 1 million viewers for their title game. More people in America care about Euro soccer and Mexican soccer. I also think the only reason Seattle supports the Sounders so much is because the Sonics were stolen from them and they don't have a hockey team. If either sport moves in, it will be more popular.

There are like 3-4 teams in the MLS that have a larger stadium capacity than a NBA or NHL arena. The Sounders alone outdraw most MLB teams at over 36k fans per game.

Very good hockey day today - Marty shuts the Rags out in the Garden, Montreal and the Isles help us out by beating the Flyers and Pens in shootouts, 5-0 since the ASB, 5th place in the East and climbing.

Oh, Seattle? Sure, it's been too long, and I've made too much money on bar bets on the question "which was the first American city to win the Stanley Cup?"

seumasokelly: There are like 3-4 teams in the MLS that have a larger stadium capacity than a NBA or NHL arena. The Sounders alone outdraw most MLB teams at over 36k fans per game.

Yes, and they outdraw every other team in the league by almost 2 to 1.

Because it is a smaller league, they are the sole reason for them being ahead of the NHL in average attendance (they're not yet above the NBA).

AbbeySomeone: They do. There are a lot of transplanted Yankees in that area and the arena was built with hockey in mind.
I've been there many times. Nice place.

They just like to hear Ric Flair yell "WHOOOOOOOOOO!" after Hurricanes goals.

emersonbiggins: My god, still butthurt after OKC took the Sonics and did more with them in three years than Seattle did with them in a decade. Get over it; you got paid, and you ain't married to the biatch anymore.

Yeah, because OKC had anything to do with it. Idiot.

MAYORBOB: Okay, they have MLB and NFL and they want NHL and NBA. What's the fifth - Wii Team Bowling?




/Hot like lesbians