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(Talking Points Memo)   Mitt Romney blasts the ruling overturning Proposition 8. Not because of the social issues at stake, but because he wasted all that money getting it passed in the first place   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 311
    More: Followup, Mitt Romney  
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5137 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Feb 2012 at 6:08 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-07 06:46:28 PM

Corvus: Tergiversada: Corvus: Tergiversada: The basic idea behind the covenants is to be your very best self and to serve God and others.

Right which to a Mormon is hating on gays and making abortion and contraception illegal and murder.

I don't "hate on gays." I feel that someone's sexual preferences are their business and none of mine---unless I happen to be sitting in their lap.

Do you give tons of money to anti-gay groups like Romney does?


No. I feel that that it would be wrong to do so. What are these anti-gay groups that he gives money to? Got references? I'm curious.
 
2012-02-07 06:47:31 PM

WhyteRaven74: colon_pow: see the rights left to the states.

Actually when it comes to marriage being a right, it's the ninth not tenth amendment that's in play.


Do tell, I'm always open for another angle:0)
 
2012-02-07 06:47:41 PM

meh...: Indeed. It's not democracy when the will of the majority is to oppress the minority's rights.


That's ok because we're not a democracy, either.

/recite pledge of allegiance for the correct answer
 
2012-02-07 06:49:26 PM

dahmers love zombie: I am going to shamelessly yoink that, modify it, and use it to vex the Baptists. Just lettin' you know.


The idea of roving groups of atheists in comfortable clothes and sweet whips interupting church services with tales of responsible, fulfilling lives filled with cheap sex and expensive booze now amuses me greatly.
 
2012-02-07 06:50:18 PM

Corvus: Look at Romney's tax returns he gives lots of money to anti-gay organizations, not anti-gay marriage organization but anti-gay organization.

He took the "Personhood" pledge to make a constitutional amendment to make abortion murder and would out law contraception like the pill.

He isn't a moderate.


He is whatever he needs to be to get elected.

If he has any moral center, I have no idea what it is. I really don't. He's been married for 40+ years to the same woman and evidently doesn't cheat on her, so he at least takes that promise seriously. And he seems pretty loyal to the cult of greed, I suppose.

Other than that, I no idea.
 
2012-02-07 06:51:49 PM

gilgigamesh: cult of greed


Er, I wasn't referring to the Mormon Church here.
 
2012-02-07 06:52:00 PM

Tergiversada: Corvus: Tergiversada: Corvus: Tergiversada: The basic idea behind the covenants is to be your very best self and to serve God and others.

Right which to a Mormon is hating on gays and making abortion and contraception illegal and murder.

I don't "hate on gays." I feel that someone's sexual preferences are their business and none of mine---unless I happen to be sitting in their lap.

Do you give tons of money to anti-gay groups like Romney does?

No. I feel that that it would be wrong to do so. What are these anti-gay groups that he gives money to? Got references? I'm curious.


http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2012/01/24/Mitt_Romney_Disclo s es_Contributions_to_Antigay_Groups/

The Human Rights Campaign points out a report by CNN that says Romney's charitable foundation gave at least $35,000 to antigay groups in 2010, with $10,000 going to the Massachusetts Family Institute, which ran radio ads last year warning parents that a transgender civil rights bill could lead to all manner of danger in bathrooms.


That's just last year. We don't know how much he has given in the past.
 
2012-02-07 06:52:20 PM

urban.derelict: meh...: Indeed. It's not democracy when the will of the majority is to oppress the minority's rights.

That's ok because we're not a democracy, either.

/recite pledge of allegiance for the correct answer


Oh my god, we're a FLAG??
 
2012-02-07 06:52:28 PM

Tickle Mittens: The idea of roving groups of atheists in comfortable clothes and sweet whips interupting church services with tales of responsible, fulfilling lives filled with cheap sex and expensive booze now amuses me greatly.


Wait, what? I'm an atheist; where's my cheap sex?!?
 
2012-02-07 06:52:42 PM

Tergiversada: Corvus: Tergiversada: Corvus: Tergiversada: The basic idea behind the covenants is to be your very best self and to serve God and others.

Right which to a Mormon is hating on gays and making abortion and contraception illegal and murder.

I don't "hate on gays." I feel that someone's sexual preferences are their business and none of mine---unless I happen to be sitting in their lap.

Do you give tons of money to anti-gay groups like Romney does?

No. I feel that that it would be wrong to do so. What are these anti-gay groups that he gives money to? Got references? I'm curious.


I think he means The Church. (new window)
 
2012-02-07 06:53:25 PM

thamike: meat0918: thamike: meat0918:
Mitt Romney: God is no respecter of persons.


Am I really the only person who caught this?


context-shmontext
 
2012-02-07 06:53:54 PM

Nadie_AZ: Tergiversada: Corvus: Tergiversada: Corvus: Tergiversada: The basic idea behind the covenants is to be your very best self and to serve God and others.

Right which to a Mormon is hating on gays and making abortion and contraception illegal and murder.

I don't "hate on gays." I feel that someone's sexual preferences are their business and none of mine---unless I happen to be sitting in their lap.

Do you give tons of money to anti-gay groups like Romney does?

No. I feel that that it would be wrong to do so. What are these anti-gay groups that he gives money to? Got references? I'm curious.

I think he means The Church. (new window)


Not just them he has given money to Massachusetts Family Institute and other anti-gay organizations.
 
2012-02-07 06:54:14 PM

Tergiversada: Corvus: crotchgrabber: A little off topic here... But does anyone have an explination of the magic underwear? I know mormons are supposed to wear special panties... but... why? Serious question.

I hope god isn't that concerned with my underpants. I'll have to explain the laundry situation.

It's to be a constant reminder that they are Mormon and stand for everything a Mormon does... Which if you think about it is kind of scary.

And yes Romney wears them.

The basic idea behind the covenants is to be your very best self and to serve God and others.


It's not working too well for that douche or his church. I became a member of the lds as a teen (mainly because the missionaries were super hot) and went to church a few times after baptism... I've been with my partner almost five years now, loving and being loved by him more than that church or their 'god'. Anyone know how to get my record removed from their list? I'd rather spend eternity in the outer darkness than a second in one of their heavens with them.

/not that I believe that crap, but on the very slim chance they are right...
 
2012-02-07 06:56:02 PM

urban.derelict: meh...: Indeed. It's not democracy when the will of the majority is to oppress the minority's rights.

That's ok because we're not a democracy, either.

/recite pledge of allegiance for the correct answer


let me see...

"I pledge allegiance to the flag, Michael Jackson is a... "

I see, now.... but that only answers the homosexuality issue. I don't remember anything in there about political frameworks.

/Drink 7up, it's your patriotic duty.
 
2012-02-07 06:57:00 PM
storage.restivo.org

So what is his position going to be once the Primaries are over?
 
2012-02-07 06:57:49 PM

truthseeker2083: not that I believe that crap, but on the very slim chance they are right...


It would be hilarious if they got Dantes levels mixed up with their weird little hierarchy levels of heaven.,,,and then had to live it.
 
2012-02-07 06:57:58 PM

truthseeker2083: Anyone know how to get my record removed from their list? I'd rather spend eternity in the outer darkness than a second in one of their heavens with them.


Oh hai!

I did this back in 2000 ... It has been worth every moment (new window)- even if my family doesn't approve of my actions. Expect them to try pretty hard to keep you. But once this is done, you won't hear from them ever again.
 
2012-02-07 06:57:58 PM
"Today, unelected judges cast aside the will of the people of California who voted to protect traditional marriage," Romney said.

Don't worry. I'm sure the will of the people will triumph.
 
2012-02-07 06:58:27 PM

smeegle: Do tell, I'm always open for another angle:0)


The tenth amendment only deals with the powers of government, it's the ninth amendment that deals with rights. The tenth grants state governments the power to create laws in relation to marriage, but it's the ninth amendment which covers the idea of marriage being a right. The ninth amendment says that the Constitution is not an exhaustive list of rights, there are rights not covered explicitly by the constitution but they are rights all the same.
 
2012-02-07 06:58:42 PM

truthseeker2083: Tergiversada: Corvus: crotchgrabber: A little off topic here... But does anyone have an explination of the magic underwear? I know mormons are supposed to wear special panties... but... why? Serious question.

I hope god isn't that concerned with my underpants. I'll have to explain the laundry situation.

It's to be a constant reminder that they are Mormon and stand for everything a Mormon does... Which if you think about it is kind of scary.

And yes Romney wears them.

The basic idea behind the covenants is to be your very best self and to serve God and others.

It's not working too well for that douche or his church. I became a member of the lds as a teen (mainly because the missionaries were super hot) and went to church a few times after baptism... I've been with my partner almost five years now, loving and being loved by him more than that church or their 'god'. Anyone know how to get my record removed from their list? I'd rather spend eternity in the outer darkness than a second in one of their heavens with them.

/not that I believe that crap, but on the very slim chance they are right...


Yes. All you have to do is submit a written request. It's that simple. You can do it locally if you know where your records are, or if not, you can call the church HQ and go from there.
 
2012-02-07 06:59:48 PM

Tergiversada: The basic idea behind the covenants is to be your very best self and to serve God and others.


Something wrong clearly happened to that idea.
 
2012-02-07 07:00:18 PM

Nadie_AZ: I think he means The Church. (new window)


Under the Milky Way tonight?
 
2012-02-07 07:00:41 PM

Hi! I can lick my own eyebrows: thamike: meat0918: thamike: meat0918:
Mitt Romney: God is no respecter of persons.

Am I really the only person who caught this?


context-shmontext


No. I'm not sure what he means really.
 
2012-02-07 07:01:57 PM

jadedlee: The 9th Circuit upheld a lower court decision, which included the following quote: "Proposition 8 fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license."




Cyberluddite: That was decided on a rational basis standard--the court agreed with the trial court that it was not necessary to determine whether intermediate scrutiny should be applied, since it didn't even pass a rational basis test.


So, failure under straight-up rational basis analysis, eh? That's good news for future pro-equal rights litigants going forward, it seems to me.

The effect is that this opinion will really only be applicable to California, or any other state in which same-sex couples have the right to marry but that right is later taken away by ballot initiative or legislation--it won't be directly applicable to states that have never provided same-sex couples with the right to marry--that will be another case. Because it was decided so narrowly, the Supreme Court may be less likely to grant a petition for review of the case--or if they do, it will be harder for the Supremes to reverse such a narrow decision.

Here in Washington State, where an equal marriage rights law is about to be signed and a responsive referendum is already promised - and which happens to be situated in the 9th Circuit - this is relevant to our interests. Of course, the cases won't be exactly on point; one might argue that the difference between equal marriage rights granted by statute aren't the same thing as equal marriage rights found implicit in the California constitution.
 
2012-02-07 07:02:08 PM

Tergiversada: Corvus: crotchgrabber: A little off topic here... But does anyone have an explination of the magic underwear? I know mormons are supposed to wear special panties... but... why? Serious question.

I hope god isn't that concerned with my underpants. I'll have to explain the laundry situation.

It's to be a constant reminder that they are Mormon and stand for everything a Mormon does... Which if you think about it is kind of scary.

And yes Romney wears them.

The basic idea behind the covenants is to be your very best self and to serve God and others.


When you first mentioned the temple underpants, I had a strange inkling. With that last line, I am now convinced: Mitt Romney may have clean underpants, but he's laid some terrible skid marks across his vows.
 
2012-02-07 07:02:16 PM

Corvus: Tergiversada: Corvus: Tergiversada: Corvus: Tergiversada: The basic idea behind the covenants is to be your very best self and to serve God and others.

Right which to a Mormon is hating on gays and making abortion and contraception illegal and murder.

I don't "hate on gays." I feel that someone's sexual preferences are their business and none of mine---unless I happen to be sitting in their lap.

Do you give tons of money to anti-gay groups like Romney does?

No. I feel that that it would be wrong to do so. What are these anti-gay groups that he gives money to? Got references? I'm curious.

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2012/01/24/Mitt_Romney_Disclo s es_Contributions_to_Antigay_Groups/

The Human Rights Campaign points out a report by CNN that says Romney's charitable foundation gave at least $35,000 to antigay groups in 2010, with $10,000 going to the Massachusetts Family Institute, which ran radio ads last year warning parents that a transgender civil rights bill could lead to all manner of danger in bathrooms.

That's just last year. We don't know how much he has given in the past.


Thanks for the references. This MA Family Institute sounds nuts..."All manner of danger in bathrooms" --- please!
I haven't heard anything about his trying to make contraception illegal. I thought that was Santorum??
 
2012-02-07 07:02:30 PM

Nadie_AZ: ....you won't hear from them ever again.


hold on a sec., you get a membership number? now that's by far the weirdest thing about Mormonism. well maybe not the weirdest but the creepiest.

/you know who else was into numbering humans?
 
2012-02-07 07:03:06 PM

Fart_Machine: Nadie_AZ: I think he means The Church. (new window)

Under the Milky Way tonight?


Come on. You gotta link the video. Link (new window)
 
2012-02-07 07:03:12 PM
And to add, I find it hilarious the lds wants to protect 'traditional marriage' (a bullshiat term in and of itself) when a main reason they were run out of the US was because they practiced polygamy. Not only was this supposedly a divine revelation from god almighty, when they wanted statehood, they folded like a wet paper bag on the issue. What courage of their convictions! They like to play the martyr, but throughout their history, every time they were run out of town, it was because the people were douchebags who came in and made the previous inhabitants feel like crap by claiming their land and telling them that it was ok because everyone else was going to hell anyways. A good read on the true history of the church is found in 'No Man Knows My History'. I can't recall the author's name, but look up the book, it is a very enlightening read. The church excommunicated the author because she wouldn't give in to the will of the church and not release the true story of joseph smith's life.
 
2012-02-07 07:03:37 PM
I heard from a friend of my neighbors brother that Romney would pen an executive order to restore the legality of polygamous marriages to the followers of traditional Mormon faith. I don't know for certain that it's true, but it's what I heard.

Now I'm not saying something like this could be damaging if enough people believed it to be true, but I'm not saying it wouldn't.
 
2012-02-07 07:04:08 PM
I can't wait to tune in to CNN tonight because each of these noble Republican candidates will probably work denying gay couples equal marriage rights into their speeches. And I just love it when a group of people just fighting for a really minimal extension of civil rights are used as a wedge issue to appeal to people's basest, most bigoted values in an election race.

Since Rick Santorum is likely to be tonight's big winner, it's going to be even better than usual.

/sarcasm
//the most sarcasm
///of all time
 
2012-02-07 07:04:23 PM

WhyteRaven74: colon_pow: see the rights left to the states.
Actually when it comes to marriage being a right, it's the ninth not tenth amendment that's in play.


The constitutional basis is actually found in the 14th Amendment.

Not all fundamental rights are listed by name in the Constitution. The 14th Amendment says the government cannot "deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." Various Supreme Court decisions over the years have defined numerous basic societal and human rights as fundamental rights of "liberty" that the gubbamint can't fark around with unless it has a damn good reason to do so. Among these include the right to have and raise children, the right to vote, the right to travel from state to state, the right to privacy, and in a whole line of cases (including Griswold v. Connecticut and Loving v. Virginia), the right to marry.

Yeah, I know some people would say that "marriage" and "liberty" are actually opposites, but this is how it's been interpreted.
 
2012-02-07 07:04:53 PM

Crabs_Can_Polevault:

When you first mentioned the temple underpants, I had a strange inkling. With that last line, I am now convinced: Mitt Romney may have clean underpants, but he's laid some terrible skid marks across his vows.


pshaw, that was just a few rebellious streaks.
 
2012-02-07 07:06:04 PM

Isitoveryet: Nadie_AZ: ....you won't hear from them ever again.

hold on a sec., you get a membership number? now that's by far the weirdest thing about Mormonism. well maybe not the weirdest but the creepiest.

/you know who else was into numbering humans?


So, when you go into the temple to get your 'endowments', you are given a new name. The name that you were called in heaven. So it is your ... old name. Anyways, the name is a random name scheduled for that particular day and everyone gets the same name. So everyone who went in (alive or dead) to get their endowments on the same day as me has my name. I've done it many times when I was a member and got that same name many times.

I guess God didn't have time to be creative with names when he punched out all those spirit children. "This half is Joseph, that half is Nephi."
 
2012-02-07 07:06:46 PM
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-02-07 07:07:07 PM

Nadie_AZ: truthseeker2083: Anyone know how to get my record removed from their list? I'd rather spend eternity in the outer darkness than a second in one of their heavens with them.

Oh hai!

I did this back in 2000 ... It has been worth every moment (new window)- even if my family doesn't approve of my actions. Expect them to try pretty hard to keep you. But once this is done, you won't hear from them ever again.


Thank you! What's weird, is when I stopped going to church, six months later, after sever address changes and twice moving 600+ miles, I had a pair of missionaries show up looking for me. No change of address through USPS or anything. Still not sure how they found me....
 
2012-02-07 07:07:55 PM

Le Bomb Suprize: I heard from a friend of my neighbors brother that Romney would pen an executive order to restore the legality of polygamous marriages to the followers of traditional Mormon faith. I don't know for certain that it's true, but it's what I heard.

Now I'm not saying something like this could be damaging if enough people believed it to be true, but I'm not saying it wouldn't.


In reality, the women of the church wouldn't let this happen. Every time the subject came up, every wife, mother and teenage child all said 'not gonna happen with me around'. Heh. They really do wield a lot of power at home 'behind the scenes'.
 
2012-02-07 07:07:57 PM
i44.tinypic.com

/inquiring minds want to know
 
2012-02-07 07:09:19 PM

Shaggy_C: [i44.tinypic.com image 400x400]

/inquiring minds want to know


We can unamend the amendment to amend the amending amendment of amendments.
 
2012-02-07 07:09:24 PM

Tergiversada: Weaver95: crotchgrabber: A little off topic here... But does anyone have an explination of the magic underwear? I know mormons are supposed to wear special panties... but... why? Serious question.

I hope god isn't that concerned with my underpants. I'll have to explain the laundry situation.

I think it largely serves a symbolic purpose - sort of a ward/reminder against the evils and sins of the world.

The temple garments are symbolic of the covenants (promises) that one has made in the temple. They are worn as a constant reminder of those covenants.


And to protect from evil. Removing it removes certain conditional protections from evil granted during the endowment ceremony. I see there's some stuff online trying to claim Mormonism doesn't hold its underwear to be magical. But it does.

"Mormons believe their undergarments protect them from Satan, and that they are replicas of the garment given by God to Adam in the Garden of Eden. 'Inasmuch as you do not defile [your Garment],' they are assured, 'but are true and faithful to your covenants, it will be a shield and a protection to you against the power of the Destroyer until you have finished your work here on Earth.' Mormon folklore is full of stories of Saints' miraculous escapes from danger, which are frequently attributed to the power of the holy threads. One well-known believer, Marriott hotels big noise Willard 'Bill' Marriott, often tells how his Garment prevented him from suffering hideous burns when he was caught in a boating accident. Given the stout quality of Mormon tailoring, this story is quite likely true."

Link (new window)

A Mormon poster to that blog set out to "clarify" the article's "misconceptions" about Mormon holy undergarments. He posted:

People like to make a big deal about the fact that we feel our garments have some sort of magical protection about them. Although, as you mention, we are told they will act as a protective covering, that is not what is stressed to members of the church. Just as wedding rings are not a union of a couple, but merely a representation and reminder to the couple of the commitment they have made to one another, Garments are most importantly symbols to Latter-day saints that remind them of the promises they made in the Temple, and what the Lord expects of us. People not of our faith, I believe, focus more on the "shield and protection" clause because it sounds more sensational, but fail to finish the sentence ("against the power of the Destroyer" - meaning Satan, not injury). While there are accounts of people being protected physically, which I do not wish to discount, I believe that more frequently people are protected in a spiritual sense. If you are constantly wearing a reminder of promises you have made with God, you are more likely to honor those promises and thus be protected from the temptations of Satan.

Lot of weasel words in that response. It's a lot of words to say "I believe my holy undergarments are magical, but golly, they are more symbolic than magical. So people who say they're magical are wrong." Which is a weird convolution of logic.
 
2012-02-07 07:09:54 PM

BMulligan: So, failure under straight-up rational basis analysis, eh? That's good news for future pro-equal rights litigants going forward, it seems to me.


Yeah, I was psyched about that too. It's a really low level of scrutiny and rational basis reviews almost never overturn law. I don't think the 9th Circuit wanted SCOTUS taking it and just saying the scrutiny was wrong.
 
2012-02-07 07:11:39 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: [24.media.tumblr.com image 500x346]


I love that quote from the decision. It's something that seems really obvious to me but which I think is not often enough emphasized in the discussion of why equal marriage matters (and to highlight why so-called "compromise" statuses like domestic partnerships and civil unions are unacceptable.)
 
2012-02-07 07:11:39 PM
HARDCORE!!!

"On Gay Rights
All citizens deserve equal rights, regardless of their sexual orientation. While he does not support gay marriage, Mitt Romney believes domestic partnership status should be recognized in a way that includes the potential for health benefits and rights of survivorship."


Link (new window)
 
2012-02-07 07:12:16 PM

bugontherug: It's a lot of words to say "I believe my holy undergarments are magical, but golly, they are more symbolic than magical. So people who say they're magical are wrong." Which is a weird convolution of logic.


You'd love a typical Provo Elder's Quorum meeting. I sat in many with people who taught at BYU and listened to them parse the religion and explain the mythology. You've no idea.
 
2012-02-07 07:12:32 PM
HEADLINE: "Prominent member of religion infamous for polygamy stands against the right for others to marry"
 
2012-02-07 07:12:35 PM

mr.Curmudgeon: "On Gay Rights
All citizens deserve equal rights, regardless of their sexual orientation. While he does not support gay marriage, Mitt Romney believes domestic partnership status should be recognized in a way that includes the potential for health benefits and rights of survivorship."


Separate, but equal worked before and it can work again.
 
2012-02-07 07:12:43 PM

Somacandra: [i.imgur.com image 576x447]

What unelected Justices overturning the will of the people might look like:

i.imgur.com

More unelected Justices overturning the will of the people:
i44.tinypic.com
 
2012-02-07 07:14:33 PM

Cyberluddite: That was decided on a rational basis standard--the court agreed with the trial court that it was not necessary to determine whether intermediate scrutiny should be applied, since it didn't even pass a rational basis test.


What they're trying to do, then, is appeal to Kennedy, who wrote Roemer v. Evans. If they can convince him that prop 8 was motivated by a "bare desire to harm an unpopular group," which is not a "legitimate purpose" under rational basis scrutiny, they'll probably be upheld.
 
2012-02-07 07:15:02 PM
Traditional in the sense that blacks and whites can't marry? Traditional in the sense that the woman has no property rights in the marriage? Traditional in the sense that sexual satisfaction only applied to men (shut up Jews)? Traditional in the sense that a woman was married by the time she hit puberty?
 
2012-02-07 07:15:20 PM

jadedlee: BMulligan: So, failure under straight-up rational basis analysis, eh? That's good news for future pro-equal rights litigants going forward, it seems to me.

Yeah, I was psyched about that too. It's a really low level of scrutiny and rational basis reviews almost never overturn law. I don't think the 9th Circuit wanted SCOTUS taking it and just saying the scrutiny was wrong.


Yes, but its narrowly ruled upon based on the circumstances of this case: where there is a right to marriage granted under the state constitution, then stripped again by ballot measure.

I might be in the minority here, but I am guessing the SC denies cert. This decision involves a unique set of fact circumstances unlikely to be repeated. Its not something they are likely to review.
 
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