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(Fark)   Speaking of secret societies, are there any other members of the Illuminati besides myself? NDIT, obviously   (fark.com) divider line 358
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10268 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Feb 2012 at 11:43 AM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-07 05:36:48 PM
Smeggy Smurf: A religion would teach you what to believe. Freemasonry only teaches that you shall believe.
Smeggy Smurf: Masonry is religious in nature but not a religion.
Smeggy Smurf: It doesn't matter what it is as long as it is.

These sound very much like the sophist word games common in theological apologism.

Saying that you do religion but aren't an instance of religion isn't very compelling when you are in fact a religion.

Smeggy Smurf: We've even had Pastafarians.

The flying spaghetti monster religion is an expressly sarcastic and atheist allegory used to illustrate apparent problems with religious accommodation and literal/fundamentalist forms of religion.

If you have accepted a pastafarian you do apparently accept atheists afterall.
 
2012-02-07 05:39:39 PM
Thorndyke Barnhard:
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Freemasonry does not address any of that. The only moral code we have is Faith, Hope and Charity. How you approach those is up to you. We only show you why they are important.

Example:
Faith. Faith being a believe in something greater than yourself.
Hope: A hope that one day you can achieve that greater ideal for yourself
Charity: To help others achieve that greater ideal for themselves
That is not a religion. It's a way of life.

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
Again Faith, Hope and Charity. None of which are fundamentally religious. Yet when taken from a religious basis you have a basis to work from.

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
The closest thing to that would be the landmarks of Freemasonry. For a better explanation of that I recommend you find the treatsie on phoenixmasonry.com

4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
Not applicable.

5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
We have a non-denominational prayer at the opening and closing. It is applicable to all religions and spiritual beliefs that incorporate a single Diety.
 
2012-02-07 05:40:08 PM
I wouldn't join any elite secret society that would accept someone like me as a member.
 
2012-02-07 05:40:54 PM
Thorndyke Barnhard: . So just what do masons talk about in Lodge if they have to avoid some of few things I believe are actually worth talking about?

Mostly lodge business. And their prostate problems.
 
2012-02-07 05:45:24 PM
Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: For all that you know, Nobody (Or Really perhaps everybody) is Definitely a member.

I see what you did there.
 
2012-02-07 05:48:16 PM
ChaoticLimbs: I wouldn't join any elite secret society that would accept someone like me as a member.

We had a Scotsman that used to joke about putting the clan back in clandestine whenever somebody made a flub during the opening ritual. For the fellow Fark Masons, he was one of the Holy Men from the joke.

/I'm one of them too
 
2012-02-07 05:52:02 PM
Smeggy Smurf: I was hoping somebody would bite on that.

Just doing my part.
 
2012-02-07 05:59:36 PM
Thorndyke Barnhard: It's something like what is described in the Dictionary.com definition of the word.

You could consider it to be an abstraction of religion then, or a hierarchical step above religion seeking to highlight things common to other religions. It achieves a similar nominal end, but there are not insignificant differences in methodology and details.
 
2012-02-07 06:00:27 PM
First rule of Fight club, you don't talk about fight club
 
2012-02-07 06:07:39 PM
I'm immanentizing the eschaton so I'm getting a kick out of your replies...
 
2012-02-07 06:12:32 PM
NkThrasher: Thorndyke Barnhard: It's something like what is described in the Dictionary.com definition of the word.

You could consider it to be an abstraction of religion then, or a hierarchical step above religion seeking to highlight things common to other religions. It achieves a similar nominal end, but there are not insignificant differences in methodology and details.


I like that description. Do you mind if I steal it and make it a central point in my masonic lesson on how to talk about Masonry to the public in general?
 
2012-02-07 06:17:27 PM
Smeggy Smurf: NkThrasher: Thorndyke Barnhard: It's something like what is described in the Dictionary.com definition of the word.

You could consider it to be an abstraction of religion then, or a hierarchical step above religion seeking to highlight things common to other religions. It achieves a similar nominal end, but there are not insignificant differences in methodology and details.

I like that description. Do you mind if I steal it and make it a central point in my masonic lesson on how to talk about Masonry to the public in general?


By all means, of course.
 
2012-02-07 06:22:13 PM
Andrew Wiggin: nambla represent!

The National Association of Marlon Brando Look Alikes or the other one?
 
2012-02-07 06:36:08 PM
NkThrasher: Smeggy Smurf: NkThrasher: Thorndyke Barnhard: It's something like what is described in the Dictionary.com definition of the word.

You could consider it to be an abstraction of religion then, or a hierarchical step above religion seeking to highlight things common to other religions. It achieves a similar nominal end, but there are not insignificant differences in methodology and details.

I like that description. Do you mind if I steal it and make it a central point in my masonic lesson on how to talk about Masonry to the public in general?

By all means, of course.


Thank you. When I have it finished I'll make sure to contact all the Masonic Farkers I've found so far so it can be distributed and hopefully expanded upon.
 
2012-02-07 06:53:36 PM
Thorndyke Barnhard: dasc: rhino33: so, just to clarify, atheists are not welcome?

Correct. But if you're uncomfortable with "God" then you're probably going to be uncomfortable with what goes on in Lodge. Having said that we're not religion. We don't discuss religion specifically in Lodge but if you can't sit in church you can't sit in Lodge.

Is this because Freemasonry thinks ethics only stem from some kind of theism and that atheists are therefore unethical or amoral?


The way it's been explained to me, if you do not believe in a Higher Power, there is no "authority" to hold you to your contracts. That is the *purpose* of God in the Lodge.
 
2012-02-07 07:00:20 PM
Smeggy Smurf: Thank you. When I have it finished I'll make sure to contact all the Masonic Farkers I've found so far so it can be distributed and hopefully expanded upon.

Cheers mate, I'll look forward to reading it from a DeMolay perspective.
 
2012-02-07 07:01:37 PM
Smeggy Smurf: If your religion has a book, we utilize it to help you learn your craft.
Would an open Netbook qualify? No, really. Promoting this intertubes thingie as a lifestyle and means to connect people across all manner of political and cultural barriers has sort of been my "ministry".

/inspired by Timothy Leary
//saw him promoting computers at a speaking engagement
 
2012-02-07 07:16:49 PM
www.swseller.com
 
2012-02-07 07:17:44 PM
Smeggy Smurf: That's part of our investigation. We know whether or not you do.

I'm curious as to exactly how you 'know' whether someone believes in a higher power or not. Seems to me that would require telepathy.
 
2012-02-07 07:27:00 PM
glassbottomboatcaptain: Smeggy Smurf: That's part of our investigation. We know whether or not you do.

I'm curious as to exactly how you 'know' whether someone believes in a higher power or not. Seems to me that would require telepathy.


img406.imageshack.us
 
2012-02-07 07:29:35 PM
ocendot: My allegiance lies here...
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x376]

Remember to give the high sign...


www.afterelton.com
 
2012-02-07 07:30:05 PM
Smeggy Smurf: As a Freemason I'm getting a (REDACTED) out of this.

All joking aside, the Masonic Lodge is not a secret society. We have a few things we will not divulge but they're not secrets. We simple will not be the ones to speak of them. It's a matter of integrity.

Masonic Farkers, out yourselves. I only have 24 of you favorited as such so far

/Capital City #93 Boise, ID


At first, I was impressed at that number, but this thread looks like a coming out party, so I'll step up and throw my name out there. Don't post that much, though, so don't expect to see a lot of highlighted posts coming from me.

Aiken #156 Aiken,SC but I'm working my way around Charleston now around my new home. There is some impressive history here.
 
2012-02-07 07:38:58 PM
glassbottomboatcaptain: I'm curious as to exactly how you 'know' whether someone believes in a higher power or not. Seems to me that would require telepathy.

My experience with such things and Masons is that unless you're actively trying to screw them, you'll tell the truth sooner or later or they'll notice you being squirrely. Part of the point is trust and fellowship, they get good at identifying when people are being honest and truthful with them.
 
2012-02-07 07:44:31 PM
I'm a member of Booga's Treehouse Club, does that count?

"And remember, if you put your stereo speakers on their sides, you'll have a strange taste in music."
-Booga
 
2012-02-07 07:56:04 PM
The Illuminati got wiped out by the Furluminati years ago.
 
2012-02-07 07:57:57 PM
NkThrasher: glassbottomboatcaptain: I'm curious as to exactly how you 'know' whether someone believes in a higher power or not. Seems to me that would require telepathy.

My experience with such things and Masons is that unless you're actively trying to screw them, you'll tell the truth sooner or later or they'll notice you being squirrely. Part of the point is trust and fellowship, they get good at identifying when people are being honest and truthful with them.


Also your nomination to join needs to be put forward by current Masons. It would be very rare that a complete stranger was accepted, hence people would already know the kind of person you were. I am sure that there are lots of Masons whose belief in a higher power is sketchy at best but at least they would have a professed belief. Since we do not have any specific religion as a requirement (although a lot of the ritual has a Christian feel to it) the definition of a higher power is quite broad. There is a specific prohibition against atheists as you might expect since the ritual has remained almost unchanged since the 1700s.
 
2012-02-07 08:07:28 PM
Jingle Strangle: [29.media.tumblr.com image 500x334]


criminalbrief.com
 
2012-02-07 08:13:42 PM
So are there any members of the American Socialist White Peoples' Party? Especially the Illinois chapter?
 
2012-02-07 08:28:29 PM
i266.photobucket.com

i266.photobucket.com

i266.photobucket.com

i266.photobucket.com
 
2012-02-07 09:24:28 PM
In college, I was involved with Students For Better Weather.
 
2012-02-07 10:11:35 PM
NkThrasher: You could consider it to be an abstraction of religion then, or a hierarchical step above religion seeking to highlight things common to other religions. It achieves a similar nominal end, but there are not insignificant differences in methodology and details.

Fair enough.

glassgnost: The way it's been explained to me, if you do not believe in a Higher Power, there is no "authority" to hold you to your contracts. That is the *purpose* of God in the Lodge.

Do most masons truly believe this point of doctrine? I mean, do you and others, as far you know, really think that atheists are any less likely to hold to their contracts than theists, that theists are inherently more ethical than people who might trace their ethics to secular basis as did many of history's great ethicists like Socrates or Epicurus or John Stuart Mill or Hume or Russell?

And if you don't, then are you not bothered by this erroneous prejudice of your order against the character of moral non-theists?
 
2012-02-07 10:38:59 PM
Smeggy Smurf: Thorndyke Barnhard: How do they determine who is virtuous enough to be taken into the fold? And is it strictly by invite or can one volunteer for membership in the Freemasons?

First of all you have to ask to join. The closest thing we'll ever to do recruiting is ask somebody why they haven't asked to join yet.

How we determine the character of the man is straightforward. The first thing is it is extremely rare for a dirtbag to ask to join. We also have an investigation process. Each state does it a little differently. For instance in Idaho we will not hand over a petition to join unless somebody has already had the opportunity to talk to the man. Often we invite him to our dinner before the meeting. We'll give him a chance to talk to the men. It's very common for the man asking to join is already somebody known to one or more of the Masons. We're careful to screen our petitioners.


I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.
Groucho Marx
 
2012-02-07 10:41:25 PM
MoronLessOff:

Well done, now explain it to the class...
 
2012-02-07 10:44:24 PM
I belong to The Royal Order of the Honey Badger. We don't give a shiat.
 
2012-02-07 11:35:53 PM
t0.gstatic.com
 
2012-02-08 12:23:06 AM
It was the perfect conspiracy, until a guy on YouTube figured it out.
 
2012-02-08 12:34:00 AM
Master Mason, Lodge #652 Carnegie PA
 
2012-02-08 01:03:58 AM
Coronach: Are you a Turtle?

You bet your sweet ass I am.
 
2012-02-08 01:27:15 AM
I used to be a member of MENSA, then I got stupid and they kicked me out.

/Good place to meet fat Jewish women.
 
2012-02-08 03:17:07 AM
I'm an Elk.
For real.

/not so secret society........
 
2012-02-08 04:02:32 AM
NkThrasher: you'll tell the truth sooner or later or they'll notice you being squirrely

I'm not quite sure how not believing in a higher power would make one act 'squirrely'. I do not believe in a higher power and I live a very moral life. Like most people in politics, I may 'white lie' about belief in a higher power simply because I am in a system that would otherwise exclude me for my beliefs.

Inexplicably, I might add. How strange and backwards it is that we live in a world where the morality of someone who expects reward for their good deeds and fears punishment for their bad deeds is valued over the morality of one who expects neither reward nor punishment for their earthly deeds.
 
2012-02-08 09:27:30 AM
Well! Late to the party again, I am...

/Elmer Lodge #160

*tugs ear and wiggles nose*
 
2012-02-08 10:02:54 AM
Quadruple Entendre: MoronLessOff:

Well done, now explain it to the class...



Um, ok?

Did I win?
 
2012-02-08 11:00:43 AM
I'm a Leaguie-Weaguie!

/take me to a doc...
 
2012-02-08 11:10:04 AM
glassbottomboatcaptain: I'm not quite sure how not believing in a higher power would make one act 'squirrely'.

Whenever I'm on an investigation committee we've always point blank asked if you believe in a supreme being. From the start you're admitting you're willing to lie about something we hold dear to us. That shows a powerful lack of character and integrity. If you're willing to lie about that, what else are you concealing? Other questions would be asked about your habits, associations and so forth.

You'd be invited to come meet us, have dinner, socialize and so forth. We're going to know. You might fool one or two. Maybe even five or six. But you're not going to fool 30. Somebody will figure it out. Somebody will figure out you're a liar. And you'd be denied for that very reason.

I do not believe in a higher power and I live a very moral life.
Lies and deception to gain access into a social organization isn't something a person with strong morals would do.

This plays a part in the need for a belief system and the oaths. You can lie to man but can you lie to your diety? Sure but you're not going to get away with it. Oaths taken to man are nothing compared to oaths taken to both your diety and to man.
 
2012-02-08 11:36:19 AM
Smeggy Smurf: You'd be invited to come meet us, have dinner, socialize and so forth. We're going to know. You might fool one or two. Maybe even five or six. But you're not going to fool 30. Somebody will figure it out. Somebody will figure out you're a liar. And you'd be denied for that very reason.

You said earlier that Pastafarians have become members. I pointed out that the flying spaghetti monster is an explicitly sarcastic and atheist invention conjured to prove a point. Did you guys just not know this and will now kick the pastafarians out? Or are there exceptions to this no atheist rule?
 
2012-02-08 12:00:42 PM
glassbottomboatcaptain: I'm not quite sure how not believing in a higher power would make one act 'squirrely'. I do not believe in a higher power and I live a very moral life. Like most people in politics, I may 'white lie' about belief in a higher power simply because I am in a system that would otherwise exclude me for my beliefs.

Oh, that wasn't what I meant to imply, it's not the lack of belief that causes squirrely behavior, it's lying to a group so focused on honesty and openness.

Inexplicably, I might add. How strange and backwards it is that we live in a world where the morality of someone who expects reward for their good deeds and fears punishment for their bad deeds is valued over the morality of one who expects neither reward nor punishment for their earthly deeds.

I completely concur. I've always held that the existence or non-existence of a deity is unimportant. Any supreme being that wants anything more of us than to not be jerks to each other and to respectfully interact with the universe isn't one worth worshiping, and is in fact worth rebelling against. Sort of an extension and modification of Pascal's wager. If you're generally good to others, you win. Afterlife is unimportant, presence or absence of a deity is unimportant. Being good is.
 
2012-02-08 12:04:03 PM
Thorndyke Barnhard: You said earlier that Pastafarians have become members. I pointed out that the flying spaghetti monster is an explicitly sarcastic and atheist invention conjured to prove a point. Did you guys just not know this and will now kick the pastafarians out? Or are there exceptions to this no atheist rule?

There is a church, I think based out of Boston, of "Pastafarianism" as an "Open Source" religion which has the major hallmarks of what we consider to be the major religions. Creation story, morality tales, etc. Just because the deity is silly doesn't mean that the rest of the structure isn't every bit as legitimate as other religions and that the followers don't "Believe" in it in a meaningful way.
 
2012-02-08 12:29:42 PM
NkThrasher: Thorndyke Barnhard: You said earlier that Pastafarians have become members. I pointed out that the flying spaghetti monster is an explicitly sarcastic and atheist invention conjured to prove a point. Did you guys just not know this and will now kick the pastafarians out? Or are there exceptions to this no atheist rule?

There is a church, I think based out of Boston, of "Pastafarianism" as an "Open Source" religion which has the major hallmarks of what we consider to be the major religions. Creation story, morality tales, etc. Just because the deity is silly doesn't mean that the rest of the structure isn't every bit as legitimate as other religions and that the followers don't "Believe" in it in a meaningful way.


You have GOT to be kidding me. The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is explicitly a parody religion invented only a few years ago in a widely published letter by an atheist protesting the attempt to pass off intelligent design as science and include it in the Kansas Board of Education science curriculum! The church's sole purpose is to test the limits of society's accomodations to religion and troll the religious. And your entire organization which seems to hold theism as a fundamental necessity, remain utterly clueless to this?!
 
2012-02-08 12:33:27 PM
The FSM, as the nominal head of a spiritual movement and a singular supreme being meets all of the key points for being a religion. Context is irrelevant, it is a religion if you follow it.

Would I accept somebody if he was an athiest using the FSM to mock religion? No and not just for that reason. Look at yourself. You are coming across as smug, smarmy and a jackass. The perfect qualities for Fark but not for a Freemason. You wouldn't find something like the Masonic Lodge fulfilling. Not knocking your life, it just doesn't fit. It's not meant to. That's why there are others that fill other niches.

A good way to look at it is, most Masons have the character to be electable. Some of us are the ones preaching to the sinners in Mos Eisley. It takes all kinds and that's what is so great about it. We're not discriminating against athiests. They simply aren't welcome and wouldn't be happy with us. So we oblige that to the betterment of all without judgement.
 
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