CheetahOlivetti: MrStench: [hosted.ap.org image 429x459]

HUHGLARGLARGHGLARHG...MUST EAT...FETUSES...

Where is Sloth in that picture?

He just wanted to eat a Baby Ruth, not babies.

STRYPERSWINE: She is bad but the government forcing Catholics to violate their conscience is good, right?

That would be true if Obama's new rule covered Catholic Churches. But it does not. All churches (including Catholic churches) have an exemption to the new healthcare provisions.

If, on the other hand, a church wants to create a business on the side, that business has to conform to the laws of the land. But the church itself does not.

I don't like Obama or his healthcare plan, but when people pretend that this effects churches, they are either being disingenuous, they have been ill informed, or they are idiots.

Very interesting to me that she refused her severance package. Severances are usually tied to non-disclosure agreements. I expect we'll be hearing more from Ms. Handel.

Good job, men and women. We have brought this organization to its knees in under a week.

Just like we did to Bank of America and it's fees.

Just like we did to Netflix.

And now we've done it to Komen. All without firing a single shot. Gandhi and MLK would be proud of the immense power we can wield using the internet and voting with our feet and our mouse clicks, entirely non-violently.

With a free (read: non-SOPA Great Firewall of China-like) internet, we can continue doing this to any government or private organization we want to. They want to play games and we will bring them to their knees.

Magorn: STRYPERSWINE: She is bad but the government forcing Catholics to violate their conscience is good, right?

I say this as a true son of the church, born, baptised, confirmed, and having gone to twelve years of Catholic School, and counting innumerbale monks, priests, and even the odd bishop as personal friends:

Fark the Church and its conscience on this one. Imprimius: The Church's complaint about this secular rule being such an affront to its conscience would carry a lot more weight if those same concerns about its conscience had led it to reject the advice of the secular lawyers they employed who helped them cover up and then try to avoid civil liability for the pedophilia scandal, and if TO THIS DAY they weren't playing cute games with the law to continue to cover up new cases. (Such as always sending suspected pedophiles to Church run mental hospitals in different states from where they served. Why? because the Therapists may be "mandatory reporters" under the law but those laws are state laws and therefore can only force the therapist to report child abuse that occured within that state,/i>)


Secundus: 98% of Catholics are not violating thier consciences when they use birth control since they don't see anything wrong with that.

Tertius: the Church's objection to BC is based on a combination of an irresponsible, outdated, 19th century policy that is very similar to the "quiverful" movement the Duggars and others follow, and 13th Century bad science that believed that each and every sperm was a "homonculus"- a fully formed, ready to grow human being that merely needed to bake in the womb and 6th century Acesticism that believed the only proper role for sex was procreation (thus accidentally enjoying sex while making a baby was only a venal sin, but setting out to enjoy sex was a mortal sin-even for married couples)

You know what? Catholics have every right to worship however they want. They do not have the right, however, to run a fake college, or a fake hospital, that doesn't provide basic health services. Religious freedom does not me special cost cutting rules specifically for you. That's crony capitalism at it's finest. Should we allow hospitals and universities for Jehovah's Witnesses to not allow cover blood transfusions? Could you even call a hospital that does that a hospital?

Sorry for the delay, I had to run into town for a bit.

OK, Yes Brinker was flipflopping in the interview, but given the contents of Handel's letter I decided that the testimony of two people who were open to being identified were more credible than some nameless HuffPo source. (It is HuffPo, remember.) The second reason I give it credibility is that it is simply makes more sense for it to have happened the way the two SGK people say it did.

As to the question of why SGK gives money to PSU, you would have to ask them that. I have nothing to do with SGK or their operations, I only know what I read in the papers and that is obviously spun to the extent that deriving the truth is not necessarily an easy matter. Given what I have read, I believe Brinker and Handel over HuffPo's hidden source. What I believe, and why, are pretty irrelevant though.

Either way, the fact that a public social service entity has enough political power to influence where a private organization's money goes is a scary and dangerous thing, and that was really the whole point.

Finally, how it happened that I became labelled a "right-winger" simply for reiterating something that someone else wrote says a lot about the credibility and validity of what gets written in these threads. My views on the abortion issue are nowhere to be found in this, or any other thread. My political leanings are entirely absent from this discussion, and I purposefully went to the effort of actually mentioning that I was abstracting them from the discussion. But some of you feel that merely by not automatically toeing the line and hopping on the "bash the right-winger" bandwagon that I must be a "right-winger". That is simply prejudicial bigotry of the McCarthy sort, and you should be ashamed of yourselves for it.

Well here you are then, let's see what you make of this: Yes, I defended Handel. But I have never given a single dime to SGK, and have donated annually to PP. So what then are my views on the abortion issue, and what are my political leanings? See, it just isn't that cut and dried. The fact is that there are left wingers who are pro-life and right wingers who are pro-choice. There are left wing hawks and right wing doves, left wing fascists and right wing commies. The dichotomy is false...it is not really even a spectrum anymore.

Balchinian: As to the question of why SGK gives money to PSU, you would have to ask them that. I have nothing to do with SGK or their operations, I only know what I read in the papers and that is obviously spun to the extent that deriving the truth is not necessarily an easy matter.

So...you're blaming the liberal media for SGK donating to PSU?

How profound.

Balchinian: Finally, how it happened that I became labelled a "right-winger" simply for reiterating something that someone else wrote says a lot about the credibility and validity of what gets written in these threads.

You probably got labeled a right winger for saying retarded right winger things.

I read somewhere that Karen Handel had a third trimester abortion and then ate the fetus. I don't have proof, but I think that needs to be investigated. I think it was in 1990.

I think it was "ditch your top exec's" week. I went into work today and found out our CEO had been canned yesterday.

/doesn't work for Komen, or any sort of moronic charity with a political bias

Odd...this doesn't mesh with her statement at all...

On Sunday, the Huffington Post quoted an anonymous "Komen insider" as saying Handel was behind the decision, as well as an attempt to make it look nonpolitical.

The strategy, according to the online publication, involved drafting new guidelines preventing Komen from funding any organization under investigation by local, state or federal authorities. In September, the House Committee on Energy and Commerce began an investigation into Planned Parenthood over the organization's "compliance with federal restrictions on funding abortions."

"Karen Handel was the prime instigator of this effort, and she herself personally came up with investigation criteria," the source told the Huffington Post. "She said, 'If we just say it's about investigations, we can defund Planned Parenthood and no one can blame us for being political.'"

"I can tell you that the e-mails show that Karen Handel was behind the entire decision to defund Planned Parenthood," Laura Bassett, Huffington Post political reporter, told CNN Monday. "She was behind the strategy to develop the new criteria for who can be funded. And she's been behind the PR effort to clean up what's happened since the decision was announced."

IXI Jim IXI:
Typical Republican thought process. They only care about your kids until they're born.

FTFY

"I openly acknowledge my role in the matter and continue to believe our decision was the best one for Komen's future and the women we serve." - Karen Handel

SGK should support all women regardless of race, creed, color, or net worth. Karen, if you claim to be a Christian you should know that forcing others to do as you believe is not what Jesus preached. Love and forgiveness, Karen. Love and forgiveness.

/I forgive you for your evil attempt to force your views on others. You don't have to go away mad, just go away.

DGS: MBooda: to spend more time making decisions for your family

She's going to work for Planned Parenthood?

Was that meant to be a joke? Or is this your way of hinting that PP decides what's best for each person that walks in the door?

Oh, of course they honor the intelligence and reason of each dizzy, knocked-up teenybopper that walks in the door.

/financial contributor to PP for ten years until I found out what goes on during their "sessions"

MBooda: /financial contributor to PP for ten years until I found out what goes on during their "sessions"

Don't keep us in suspense. Tell us. Details such as "when" and "where" would be helpful.

WhoIsWillo: PLnn: Why should a charity devoted to fight breast cancer give money to an organization that does not do breast cancer screenings, but refers them out? Shouldn't those funds go directly to the clinics performing the mammograms/screening. Isn't using Planned Parenthood as an intermediate a political statement to begin with?

Also, mammograms are breast screenings, but not all breast screenings are mammograms.

I got a free breast screening every single time I went in there. I don't get where people are dreaming up objections to PP giving out referrals for mammograms either. How else is a poor woman going to get a referral for that sort of thing? You can't just waltz into a specialist's office and get treated.

The gig is up Komen. Your only option is to lay low for a while and reemerge with a different name. I recommend "Blackwater."

MBooda: /financial contributor to PP for ten years until I found out what goes on during their "sessions"

I call bullshiat on both points.

/was that teenager in those "sessions"

The ignorance that allows them to come to these conclusions is the same ignorance that gives them the confidence to believe them absolutely and have zero qualms about forcing them upon others.


It's a systemic problem caused by mysticism and poor education. The political implications don't make this any less troubling.

I wish these people well, but hope that they will get better.

Devil's advocate: She's saying the policy was in place to refuse funding if anything is brought into investigation, Question is, when did this investigation start (by the Fundies who want to handicap PP) and did she jump on it in concert with this investigation. Was she following procedure and do all charities under investigation get cut with her extreme prejudice?

Either way, she's still the driving force for an unpopular decision and as PR head will take the fall.

/glad PP got their funding back, they do more good than all the pink crap on the footballs fields.

Some 'Splainin' To Do: Bullseyed: Why exactly is this news? How is it anyone's business what a private charity decides to do with their money?

Well, gee, it's not like that question hasn't been raised and answered about a dozen times in this thread alone, but here we go again:

If you are donating money to an organization like Komen, it is absolutely your business to know how they are spending your money, and you have every right to withhold your donations if you don't approve of how they conduct business.

Tell me that you're just repeating a talking point and that you aren't actually so thick that you couldn't figure out that basic principle by yourself.

I read that in Jack Nickelson's voice and it sounded really cool.

Bloody William:

I guess Komen couldn't...Handel the pressure.

/ Hot

sigdiamond2000: ...and a martyr was born.

I smell Surgeon General in the Palin administration.

Great Porn Dragon: Only ONCE they've THOROUGHLY cleaned house will even talking be a consideration--meanwhile, I've now added "pink ribbon" crap to my personal "boycott as a corporate funder of dominionist crap" list right next to Hobby Lobby and Chick-Fil-A. AND what little money I have that I can donate to charity gets to go to Planned Parenthood's local offices, kthx. :D

Waaaaiit.... Hobby Lobby? How and why?

abb3w: I would have tried "Komen Foundation undergoes mastectomy to remove malignant boob", but I'm slow on the news feed today....

Too little too late. I can't forget that the board hired her and only fired her after she created the shiatstorm

The My Little Pony Killer: MBooda: /financial contributor to PP for ten years until I found out what goes on during their "sessions"

I call bullshiat on both points.

/was that teenager in those "sessions"

And I'm sure they gave equal time and effort in explaining all available options before strapping you into the stirrups.

/I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it
//not Voltaire, but an amazing simulation

saintstryfe: Great Porn Dragon: Only ONCE they've THOROUGHLY cleaned house will even talking be a consideration--meanwhile, I've now added "pink ribbon" crap to my personal "boycott as a corporate funder of dominionist crap" list right next to Hobby Lobby and Chick-Fil-A. AND what little money I have that I can donate to charity gets to go to Planned Parenthood's local offices, kthx. :D

Waaaaiit.... Hobby Lobby? How and why?

Basically, Hobby Lobby is (unfortunately) one of the four largest corporate sponsors of dominionist groups in the US--and they have a particularly heavy emphasis on corporate sponsorship of "Jesus Camper" type dominionists.

tl;dr short version: The only company I'm aware of that's a larger corporate funder of dominionism and dominionist initiatives is Amway (which also serves as a recruitment front for dominionist groups on occasion)--yes, Hobby Lobby is literally worse than Chick-Fil-A.

tl;dr (longer) version: Basically Hobby Lobby and their parent company deal in a LOT of nasty dominionist stuff...they are probably the largest corporate sponsor of David Barton's "Wallbuilders"--a group dedicated to a sort of historical revisionism that claims the Founding Fathers somehow meant the US to be some sort of Jesus Camper Theocracy rather than a representative democracy; they have had a pattern of some fairly blatant religious discrimination in hiring of employees and even against store patrons; an entire division of the parent company of Hobby Lobby exists that's pretty much dedicated to "Wild Indians Tamed By Jeezus" narratives that are seen as highly offensive by the First Nation in question; they're explicitly linked to a number of dominionist groups engaging in deceitful recruitment tactics, including a group known for staging "altar calls" in public schools under the claim they're doing "anti-drug" talks; there are links with Ron Luce's Teen Mania Industries, a group that holds scary, possibly-Godwin-invoking-in-comparisons rallies targeting Jesus Camped youth; at least one division runs a "Jesus Gulag" promoting itself as a "Behaviour modification center" where kids who don't toe the Jesus Camper line are sent for "reprogramming" and the occasional "degaying" treatment; AND to top off the crap sundae with crap sprinkles, the owner of the corporate family is a hardcore Jesus Camper (of the New Apostolic Reformation sort--as in those sorts everyone in the GOP save for Paul and Romney have been practically fellating in the 2012 campaign) and the companies also have linkage with dominionist groups very closely tied to the genocidal regime of Efrain Rios Montt in Guatemala back in the 80s.

(Yes, that's literally as much as I could summarise. The article goes into MUCH more detail on it. Suffice it to say that--being an escapee from the exact movement that Hobby Lobby is a corporate sponsor of--they are one of a very few companies on my permanent boycott list (consisting of Amway and its corporate tentacles, Chick-Fil-A, Hobby Lobby and its corporate tentacles, and--unless and until they fully clean house--Susan G. Komen Foundation just joined that list). This is considerable as I'm usually willing to give a group a chance if they stop dominionist corporate funding--I haven't eaten Domino's in a decade not because they were a dominionist corporate funder (they pretty much stopped being a funding front for uber-fundy Catholics and Operation Rescue after Tom Monaghan resigned from being CEO) but because they have crappy pizza; the permanent boycott list is reserved for groups that have ingrained, systemic, pro-dominionist, pro-dominionist-funding corporate cultures.)

Goodfella: Good job, men and women. We have brought this organization to its knees in under a week.

Just like we did to Bank of America and it's fees.

Just like we did to Netflix.

And now we've done it to Komen. All without firing a single shot. Gandhi and MLK would be proud of the immense power we can wield using the internet and voting with our feet and our mouse clicks, entirely non-violently.

With a free (read: non-SOPA Great Firewall of China-like) internet, we can continue doing this to any government or private organization we want to. They want to play games and we will bring them to their knees.

Any organization?

Like, say, Planned Parenthood?

/what you mean "we", keemo sabe?

MBooda: Any organization?

Like, say, Planned Parenthood?

/what you mean "we", keemo sabe?

Hi there. You must have missed your side's spectacularly lulzy failure at attempting just that. Good luck trying though.

I hadn't been following this story until now that I find out that Karen Handel was the VP for the organization. She is one of those through and through "lie at all costs to get yourself up the political ladder" conservative. She had gave her support to the Log Cabin Republicans and domestic partnership when she was the Chairman of the Fulton County Board of Commissioners. The county Atlanta is in and obviously the most gay friendly county in the state.

It wasn't until she ran for the Republican candidacy for Governor in 2010 when she did an about face on her stance on gays when it was brought up by her opponents who brow beat her on it. She denied her support and backpedaled so fast she almost broke her legs. She's also responsible for the voter ID law in Georgia.

So what I'm saying is that all of this backlash couldn't happen to a nicer person.

NateAsbestos: Marine1: That whole organization is more of an annoyance than anything else. We don't need pink on football fields, shotgun shells, pistols, soup cans, and buckets of KFC. I'd say the NFL's contract with them to put pink on the uniforms and fields is actually insulting, considering their main audience (middle-aged and senior men) are more likely to suffer from prostate cancer, which, while still during the NFL season, doesn't get nearly the same amount of attention.

If you're not aware of breast cancer at this point, you're either blind, deaf, or live under a rock.

No doubt. Prostate cancer gets NO real media attention but is just as bad [and possibly just as prevalent? I have no figures] as breast cancer.

Plus you have to look at the marginal rate of return towards funding cancer research. There's already been billions upon billions of dollars poured into the endeavor and we still have nothing. If I happen to get an extra $50 to donate one paycheck, would it be better spent giving to the vague cause of "research", or would it be better spent on something like Doctors Without Borders, who don't purport to be able to SOLVE the root cause but can at least have a very real, tangible effect for the better on those suffering for very little money?

This was the reasoning behind Gates giving all his money towards malaria vaccines instead of throwing tons of money towards the cause of research... at least this way he knows his money actually is helping.

I took the money that used to go to SGK and gave it to a local mammogram center to pay for a needy woman's mammo. I also gave the same amount to PP just becuz!!

MBooda: The My Little Pony Killer: MBooda: /financial contributor to PP for ten years until I found out what goes on during their "sessions"

I call bullshiat on both points.

/was that teenager in those "sessions"

And I'm sure they gave equal time and effort in explaining all available options before strapping you into the stirrups.

/I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it
//not Voltaire, but an amazing simulation

You admit to not ever having been in one of those rooms yet you refuse to see any position on it except for the one that suits your needs.

I just plain feel bad for you, bro.

MBooda:

I've never had an abortion.

Popcorn's all popped. Tell me again... What was my experience at that Planned Parenthood?