I_C_Weener: Oh, I don't know. He and Bush and the people in Congress who let them, have managed pretty well to ignore that whole checks and balances thing.

So what you're saying is that if Congress, the main check upon the Executive Branch, abrogates its responsibility for checking the Executive Branch, that the Congressional check upon the Executive Branch isn't working?

SHOCKING.

"What's frustrated people is that I've not been able to implement every aspect of what I said in 2008. Well, it turns out our Founders designed a system that makes it more difficult to bring about change than I would like sometimes. But what we have been able to do is move in the right direction," Obama said.

Wow, that's totally uninflammatory and could only be controversial to jackasses looking to be mad about Obama, or whoever he is. Could... could the headline be misleading?!

CanisNoir: Mugato: If by that you mean that congress has obstructed him in everything he tried to do then....you're right?

Except for that two year period where he had both the house and the senate.

Filibusters?

CanisNoir: Mugato: If by that you mean that congress has obstructed him in everything he tried to do then....you're right?

Except for that two year period where he had both the house and the senate.

You mean when he got the financial reforms, stimulus, health care, DADT removed?

That's the point. It's supposed to be difficult to change things. It's there to stop a power hungry wannabe dictator from doing anything until he is removed. Fartbongo biatching about it shows how much of a wannabe he really is.

CanisNoir: Mugato: If by that you mean that congress has obstructed him in everything he tried to do then....you're right?

Except for that two year period where he had both the house and the senate.

There are people who actually believe this...

wow.

Obama mumbles under his breath "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator"

CanisNoir: Eshman: Filibusters?

...and yet with the obstructing filibuster happy republicans he still managed to get a very unpopular health care plan enacted as well as other things he wanted. Clinton had to deal with an antagonist house and he managed to get a lot of what he wanted through.

He didn't get health care reform though, and Obama only got it because Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman were given what they wanted.

CanisNoir: Eshman: Filibusters?

...and yet with the obstructing filibuster happy republicans he still managed to get a very unpopular health care plan enacted as well as other things he wanted. Clinton had to deal with an antagonist house and he managed to get a lot of what he wanted through.

Democrats don't march in lock step. News at 11.

HansoSparxx: CanisNoir: Mugato: If by that you mean that congress has obstructed him in everything he tried to do then....you're right?

Except for that two year period where he had both the house and the senate.

There are people who actually believe this...

wow.

Yes, that two year period where he had both the house and senate at his beck and call, because Blue Dog Democrats don't exist, because Al Franken was seated right away, because Lieberman is such a staunch progressive, because because because...

But BlackAnimal is just being his usual alt-trolling dishonest shill self.

HansoSparxx: CanisNoir: Mugato: If by that you mean that congress has obstructed him in everything he tried to do then....you're right?

Except for that two year period where he had both the house and the senate.

There are people who actually believe this...

wow.

No the democrats controlled both the house and the senate for 2 years.

Saiga410: Obama mumbles under his breath "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator"

Of course, if you RTFA you would know the headline is nothing like what he actually said.

Saiga410: No the democrats controlled both the house and the senate for 2 years.

inigomontoya.jpg

The Founders designed a system that makes it difficult to bring about change. What they did not do was design a system that makes it impossible to bring about change, especially if those with a Scrooge McDuck-like vault full of money disagree with that change.

CanisNoir: Mugato: If by that you mean that congress has obstructed him in everything he tried to do then....you're right?

Except for that two year period where he had both the house and the senate.

Obama was inaugurated Jan 20, 2009 and Ted Kennedy died on August 25, 2009. Also, Joe Lieberman is an independent. Nice try, though.

The founders designed a system where Obama was property, at any rate, get off your cross subby.

Constitutional scholar.

I_C_Weener: CanisNoir: Mugato: If by that you mean that congress has obstructed him in everything he tried to do then....you're right?

Except for that two year period where he had both the house and the senate.

Yes. But that wasn't a super majority because as we all know, for 200+ years laws were only passed via a super majority.

No, for 200+ years they were passed by a simple majority, and then all of a sudden the Republicans decided that a supermajority was required.

Smeggy Smurf: That's the point. It's supposed to be difficult to change things. It's there to stop a power hungry wannabe dictator from doing anything until he is removed. Fartbongo biatching about it shows how much of a wannabe he really is.

"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier just so long as I'm the dictator" -- Barack Hussein Fartbush Jr.

I_C_Weener: qorkfiend: I_C_Weener: Oh, I don't know. He and Bush and the people in Congress who let them, have managed pretty well to ignore that whole checks and balances thing.

So what you're saying is that if Congress, the main check upon the Executive Branch, abrogates its responsibility for checking the Executive Branch, that the Congressional check upon the Executive Branch isn't working?

SHOCKING.

Our Republic died when the Senate voted 98-2, 99-1...whatever it was, to give Bush the power to wage war when he saw fit. Then they compounded that with the Patriot Act...and it hasn't stopped since. GITMO. Detention without due process. DHS. SOPA being another attempt. NDAA.

These aren't even the politically controversial ones.

Sure. My point is that Congress has actively granted the Executive these powers (and could, in theory, un-grant them). The Executive is not ignoring checks and balances; Congress has steadily eroded their own responsibility for them.

No one models their governments after ours anymore. There's a good reason for that - the presidential system is a piece of shiat. Couple that to the crumbling of long-standing congressional norms, the rise of lock-step Republican partisanship, and we have all the disadvantages of a parliamentary system but none of the benefits.

There are waaaayyy too many veto points in our government and it renders it extraordinarily inflexible and unable to make decisions in a rapidly changing world.

"What's frustrated people is that I've not been able to implement every aspect of what I said in 2008. Well, it turns out our Founders designed a system that makes it more difficult to bring about change than I would like sometimes. But what we have been able to do is move in the right direction," Obama said.

Too bad Obama wasn't some kind of Constitutional law professor, or maybe spent some time working in the Senate or something before he got elected. Then he wouldn't have been so blindsided about how the system works and maybe not promised that he'd bring about so much change. I bet nobody was more surprised than he was to find this out.

A Dark Evil Omen: Saiga410: Obama mumbles under his breath "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator"

Of course, if you RTFA you would know the headline is nothing like what he actually said.

That's a Bush Jr quote.

CanisNoir: Eshman: Filibusters?

...and yet with the obstructing filibuster happy republicans he still managed to get a very unpopular* health care plan enacted as well as other things he wanted. Clinton had to deal with an antagonist house and he managed to get a lot of what he wanted through.

Editor's note: plan increases in popularity once people are told what's actually in it.

Rich Cream: A Dark Evil Omen: Saiga410: Obama mumbles under his breath "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator"

Of course, if you RTFA you would know the headline is nothing like what he actually said.

That's a Bush Jr quote.

Eeyup. And what Obama said was pretty much the exact opposite of that.

I_C_Weener: Our Republic died when the Senate voted 98-2, 99-1...whatever it was, to give Bush the power to wage war when he saw fit. Then they compounded that with the Patriot Act...and it hasn't stopped since. GITMO. Detention without due process. DHS. SOPA being another attempt. NDAA.

These aren't even the politically controversial ones.

Sure they are. Not surprising, though, when all viable parties are politically conservative.

/in before "democrats are socialists"

A Dark Evil Omen: Rich Cream: A Dark Evil Omen: Saiga410: Obama mumbles under his breath "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator"

Of course, if you RTFA you would know the headline is nothing like what he actually said.

That's a Bush Jr quote.

Eeyup. And what Obama said was pretty much the exact opposite of that.


Yeah. That's the joke?

Rich Cream: A Dark Evil Omen: Saiga410: Obama mumbles under his breath "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator"

Of course, if you RTFA you would know the headline is nothing like what he actually said.

That's a Bush Jr quote.

And truth be told, I never understood the flack he got for that statement. It's a true statement, I'd probably say that if I was president. I'm sure almost all presidents have felt the same way. He's said a lot of stupid things, but that's not one of them.

People who expect government officials to play by the rules don't understand that they are usually rich and rich people do whatever the fark they want, whenever they want to do it. Double ditto when you're the president or the president's men.
What are you going to do to them?
Write a strongly worded letter?

Learn your places, serfs.

JRaynor: DROxINxTHExWIND: quadripling the effect of AA,

Forgive my case of the stupids but what's that? When I hear AA the folks with the 12-step program leap to mind. You are probably referring to something else

Affirmative action.

Elandriel: Yeah not sure what portions of checks and balances Obama has consistently avoided to the detriment of the country as a whole. I mean, the House is against him and the Supreme court is against him, so realistically he got nothin'.

I guess there was that whole Solyndra thing. Wait, nope. I guess there were the recess appointments. Wait, nope. I guess there was the unilateral declaration of war without congressional approval. Wait, nope. NDAA? Nope. Uh...refusing to defend DOMA? Nope. Gosh, but I just know he's the worst thing ever. Gitmo? No, that's still open. Um...healthcare reform? Well, it passed congress and hasn't been decided upon via SC. So I guess not that either. Uh...creation of the CPB? Again no...hmm.

Oh wait, got it.

He's black. That avoids the checks and balances of he isn't white enough.

Everybody knows black people write bad checks and have zero balances.

/doing it right?

JoeJitsu: "What's frustrated people is that I've not been able to implement every aspect of what I said in 2008. Well, it turns out our Founders designed a system that makes it more difficult to bring about change than I would like sometimes. But what we have been able to do is move in the right direction," Obama said.

Too bad Obama wasn't some kind of Constitutional law professor, or maybe spent some time working in the Senate or something before he got elected. Then he wouldn't have been so blindsided about how the system works and maybe not promised that he'd bring about so much change. I bet nobody was more surprised than he was to find this out.

How does that imply he was 'blindsided?'

HotIgneous Intruder: People who expect government officials to play by the rules don't understand that they are usually rich and rich people do whatever the fark they want, whenever they want to do it. Double ditto when you're the president or the president's men.

Wishes that were true:

qorkfiend: HotIgneous Intruder: People who expect government officials to play by the rules don't understand that they are usually rich and rich people do whatever the fark they want, whenever they want to do it. Double ditto when you're the president or the president's men.

Wishes that were true:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x265]

Particularly and ironically apropos, since Obama is governing to the right of Nixon.

A Dark Evil Omen: Rich Cream: A Dark Evil Omen: Saiga410: Obama mumbles under his breath "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator"

Of course, if you RTFA you would know the headline is nothing like what he actually said.

That's a Bush Jr quote.

Eeyup. And what Obama said was pretty much the exact opposite of that.

So Obama was not saying it is hard to get your legislative agenda through?

DarnoKonrad: The founders designed a system where Obama was property, at any rate, get off your cross subby.

TofuTheAlmighty: No one models their governments after ours anymore. There's a good reason for that - the presidential system is a piece of shiat. Couple that to the crumbling of long-standing congressional norms, the rise of lock-step Republican partisanship, and we have all the disadvantages of a parliamentary system but none of the benefits.

There are waaaayyy too many veto points in our government and it renders it extraordinarily inflexible and unable to make decisions in a rapidly changing world.

There isn't necessarily anything wrong with having a larger number of institutional veto players. It helps to keep market rules more stable and prevents things like Hungary amending their Constitution ten times, then ratifying an entirely new Constitution, and then amending that brand new Constitution before it has even taken effect.

What's really causing the problems here is that the political system has developed veto players that were not accounted for in the original Constitution. The filibuster and hold system has effectively made the minority party and individuals who exercise those powers into their own veto players. Because of the way elections are financed, people and corporations with huge sums of money have become veto players as well since they will only donate money to candidates who support legislation that benefits them.