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(NPR)   "Institutionalizing juveniles and branding this as criminal behavior rather than dealing with it as normal behavior wrongly places juveniles in places they should not be"   ( npr.org) divider line
    More: Sad, PBS NewsHour, 30th state, behavior wrongly  
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13511 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Feb 2012 at 9:31 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-06 05:53:24 PM  
It pisses me off more when we outsource the juvenile detention system.
 
2012-02-06 06:07:26 PM  
shiat like this just reinforces why I'm in law school:

juvenile-in-justice.comView Full Size

Pat down search at Miami-Dade Regional Detention Center in Miami, Florida

Lots of really powerful images at the website, Juvenile-in-justice.
 
2012-02-06 07:24:07 PM  
Look, it's getting harder and harder to increase the prison population any more then we've already done. Sure, we can expand the existing prisoner base a little and hire them out for slave wages (added bonus: depressing American wages!), but how do we expand this prison workforce? I'll tell you how we expand this prison workforce. We start putting children in jail. Next thing you know, they end up permanent jailbirds. A lifetime supply of sweet, sweet 50 cent an hour taxpayer subsidized slave labor, baby.

We'll give the Chinese a run for their money.
 
2012-02-06 08:39:58 PM  
The Prison Industrial Complex must be fed.
 
2012-02-06 08:42:01 PM  
All I wanted was a pepsi just one pepsi AND SHE WOULDN'T GIVE IT TO ME.
 
2012-02-06 08:49:02 PM  

One Bad Apple: All I wanted was a pepsi just one pepsi AND SHE WOULDN'T GIVE IT TO ME.


Nice Suicidal Tendencies reference.
 
2012-02-06 09:00:47 PM  

lohphat: The Prison Industrial Complex must be fed.


Pretty much...
 
2012-02-06 09:05:17 PM  
Wouldn't younger and therefor smaller prisoners technically lessen overcrowding ?
 
2012-02-06 09:33:20 PM  
NSS.
 
2012-02-06 09:34:53 PM  

Indolent: One Bad Apple: All I wanted was a pepsi just one pepsi AND SHE WOULDN'T GIVE IT TO ME.

Nice Suicidal Tendencies reference.


Agreed.

Golf clap.
 
2012-02-06 09:37:46 PM  
i229.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2012-02-06 09:37:55 PM  
This 10-year-old, R., was brought in from school by a police officer. He had stabbed a schoolmate,

I don't think that is normal behavior. At least it wasn't at my elementary school.
 
2012-02-06 09:38:26 PM  
In this thread we bemoan kids being treated like criminals. In the thread a few down we bemoan kids using Old Spice as a flame thrower as criminals.
 
2012-02-06 09:38:35 PM  
Getting into a fight at school is one thing, but armed robbery or stabbing another kid? Yeah, those are crimes and should be treated as such.
 
2012-02-06 09:38:53 PM  
If only the prisons tried to rehabilitate instead of punish. Then these kids would have a chance, but no these are the real kids left behind.
 
2012-02-06 09:39:20 PM  
All the cool kids get to go to Juvie.
 
2012-02-06 09:39:28 PM  
Reminds me of the scumbag judge up in pa who was getting kickbacks to throw kids in jail
 
2012-02-06 09:41:54 PM  

Whodat: I don't think that is normal behavior. At least it wasn't at my elementary school.


Depends just how stabby, I guess. I mean, are we talking "jabbed a pencil in his arm in a fight" or are we talking full on
uranus.dti.ne.jpView Full Size

?
 
2012-02-06 09:42:06 PM  
Hector Remarkable:

B-b-but child abuse!
 
2012-02-06 09:43:03 PM  
This 10-year-old, R., was brought in from school by a police officer. He had stabbed a schoolmate, but it was unclear what tool he'd used. He was waiting to be picked up by his mom, who couldn't get him until she got off work, for fear of losing her job.


is this supposed to bother me? that a kid who stabbed another child had to wait in a juvi cell for 6 hours until his mom picked him up? it doesn't. it never will. and that will never be normal behavior either.
 
2012-02-06 09:43:26 PM  

RatMaster999: Getting into a fight at school is one thing, but armed robbery or stabbing another kid? Yeah, those are crimes and should be treated as such.


I think the question is whether we are punishing these children or attempting to rehabilitate them.

Hint: it's not rehabilitation
 
2012-02-06 09:43:59 PM  

Rincewind53: shiat like this just reinforces why I'm in law school:

[www.juvenile-in-justice.com image 640x339]
Pat down search at Miami-Dade Regional Detention Center in Miami, Florida

Lots of really powerful images at the website, Juvenile-in-justice.


Locally, the juvie kids who were in there for drugs maybe, put a female guard on disability after her months of hosptialization and therapy. Almost killed her. Beat up another guard too. And then escaped.

Juvie has to be run like a prison. You can't treat it like summer camp.

On the other hand, one county to the South and the guards were systemically sexually molesting the female population of juvie.
 
2012-02-06 09:44:12 PM  

One Bad Apple: Wouldn't younger and therefor smaller prisoners technically lessen overcrowding ?


They do sound pretty stackable.
 
2012-02-06 09:46:35 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Look, it's getting harder and harder to increase the prison population any more then we've already done. Sure, we can expand the existing prisoner base a little and hire them out for slave wages (added bonus: depressing American wages!), but how do we expand this prison workforce? I'll tell you how we expand this prison workforce. We start putting children in jail. Next thing you know, they end up permanent jailbirds. A lifetime supply of sweet, sweet 50 cent an hour taxpayer subsidized slave labor, baby.

We'll give the Chinese a run for their money.

.
.
You'll be glad to know we passed China decades ago.
 
2012-02-06 09:47:34 PM  

relcec: This 10-year-old, R., was brought in from school by a police officer. He had stabbed a schoolmate, but it was unclear what tool he'd used. He was waiting to be picked up by his mom, who couldn't get him until she got off work, for fear of losing her job.


is this supposed to bother me? that a kid who stabbed another child had to wait in a juvi cell for 6 hours until his mom picked him up? it doesn't. it never will. and that will never be normal behavior either.


Even if the "tool" is this?

people.csail.mit.eduView Full Size
 
2012-02-06 09:49:23 PM  
INCARCERATION, INC.
 
2012-02-06 09:50:08 PM  

12349876: relcec: This 10-year-old, R., was brought in from school by a police officer. He had stabbed a schoolmate, but it was unclear what tool he'd used. He was waiting to be picked up by his mom, who couldn't get him until she got off work, for fear of losing her job.


is this supposed to bother me? that a kid who stabbed another child had to wait in a juvi cell for 6 hours until his mom picked him up? it doesn't. it never will. and that will never be normal behavior either.

Even if the "tool" is this?


At least it's not a comfortable chair.
 
2012-02-06 09:51:10 PM  
i spent ages 12-17 in the juvenile system. foster homes, group homes, Vision Quest, etc. although i was considered a "dependent" rather than a "delinquent", i was sent to places for delinquents due to supposed overcrowding across the board. that, and a judge who really thought he could teach me a lesson by putting me in placements usually reserved for the criminals.

judges on a power trip? real scary stuff.
 
2012-02-06 09:51:51 PM  
s11.allstarpics.netView Full Size


Kid, have you rehabilitated yourself?

/hotter than 27 8x10 color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was
 
2012-02-06 09:53:56 PM  
Stabbing is one thing. On the other hand, your local school officials have the ability to order police to the school to arrest children as young as 12 (in Missouri) to be arrested for fighting.

Hooray zero tolerance.

/get them used to the oppression early and they won't whine as much when you take away their rights later.
 
2012-02-06 09:53:56 PM  

Whodat: This 10-year-old, R., was brought in from school by a police officer. He had stabbed a schoolmate,

I don't think that is normal behavior. At least it wasn't at my elementary school.


Without knowing all the facts as to what led up to the stabbing, it's really hard to say what's normal and what isn't. For all we know the schoolmate that was stabbed may have been bullying the 10-year old for a long time and he just snapped and retaliated.
 
2012-02-06 09:54:45 PM  
I stabbed another kid at school. Bit somebody on my first day in grade 1. Fought a lot too, threw things... never got arrested though, just medicated.

/doesn't say what he stabbed them with or how badly
//or if they deserved it
 
2012-02-06 09:56:14 PM  
Or maybe they're just a bunch of little jerks.
 
2012-02-06 09:56:47 PM  
Constructing incomprehensible sentences and branding this as sophisticated journalism rather than dealing with it as sophomoric behavior wrongly places hack writers in places they should not be, such as NPR.
 
2012-02-06 09:57:17 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: Whodat: This 10-year-old, R., was brought in from school by a police officer. He had stabbed a schoolmate,

I don't think that is normal behavior. At least it wasn't at my elementary school.

Without knowing all the facts as to what led up to the stabbing, it's really hard to say what's normal and what isn't. For all we know the schoolmate that was stabbed may have been bullying the 10-year old for a long time and he just snapped and retaliated.


Totally plausible. I know that the administrators at my middle school didn't pay attention to the bullying I put up with until I finally shoved a kid into a row of lockers five feet away for knocking my trapper out of my hand. Needless to say, that shiat stopped afterwards.

The discipline of most public schools is for, the most part, utterly retarded. And I mean that in the "a person with an IQ of 70 could do better" way. They try to reason with kids that pick on other kids like they're adults. It's insanity.
 
2012-02-06 09:58:17 PM  
Prolly high on jenkems
 
2012-02-06 09:58:22 PM  
It's almost as though the puppy training lesson from Starship Troopers is reaching it's ultimate illogical end
 
2012-02-06 09:59:15 PM  

Hector Remarkable: [i229.photobucket.com image 607x453]


This is not the place for erotic imagery, this is a serious discussion, dammit.... ;-)
 
2012-02-06 09:59:57 PM  

it's lisa e.: i spent ages 12-17 in the juvenile system. foster homes, group homes, Vision Quest, etc. although i was considered a "dependent" rather than a "delinquent", i was sent to places for delinquents due to supposed overcrowding across the board. that, and a judge who really thought he could teach me a lesson by putting me in placements usually reserved for the criminals.

judges on a power trip? real scary stuff.


I hear you. One of my childhood friends was put in juvie three times. Her crime? Running away from drunken, abusive father who beat the shiat out of her with a belt. Sometimes she'd have belt marks from her neck down to her ankles.

Back in the 60s in Oregon, or at least in the area where we lived, running away from home was treated as a crime, no matter what the reason was You were put in juvie with kids who had actually committed crimes. They didn't ask why you ran away. Their attitude was that only bad kids ran away and bad kids had to go to juvie.
 
2012-02-06 10:00:42 PM  

Mikey1969: Hector Remarkable: [i229.photobucket.com image 607x453]

This is not the place for erotic imagery, this is a serious discussion, dammit.... ;-)


fc00.deviantart.netView Full Size
 
2012-02-06 10:02:13 PM  

Hector Remarkable: [i229.photobucket.com image 607x453]


Fap
 
2012-02-06 10:06:08 PM  

itazurakko: Whodat: I don't think that is normal behavior. At least it wasn't at my elementary school.

Depends just how stabby, I guess. I mean, are we talking "jabbed a pencil in his arm in a fight" or are we talking full on
[www.uranus.dti.ne.jp image 401x556]
?


I don't get the reference but I am scared/understanding that that shirt says Nevada on it. Needless to say, not a good experience here so far.
 
2012-02-06 10:06:17 PM  

it's lisa e.: i spent ages 12-17 in the juvenile system. foster homes, group homes, Vision Quest, etc. although i was considered a "dependent" rather than a "delinquent", i was sent to places for delinquents due to supposed overcrowding across the board. that, and a judge who really thought he could teach me a lesson by putting me in placements usually reserved for the criminals.

judges on a power trip? real scary stuff.


see, now why the f*ck wasn't there an affirmative action slot for people like you in my law school?
why is every single preferred seat reserved for people that come from just two very specific ethnicities and even then most of those kids had parents that did extremely well in life?
you could have brought some real diversity of opinion to the classroom I imagine.
 
2012-02-06 10:06:34 PM  
They want to commit violent adult crimes and get treated like a kid when they get caught.

Fark those little bastards!
 
2012-02-06 10:07:06 PM  
Armed robbery is normal behavior as well. I mean, he was hungry, and was just trying to get some food.

Its pretty simple here folks. If you stab someone, you go to jail, if you rob somebody at gunpoint, you go to jail. I spent a fair amount of my youth on probation, but once you get on probation, its best to quit farking around, and straighten up.

Everyone talks about the "Snowflake" problem we have in this country. It makes it worse if when the kid does something inherently dangerous or life-threatening like stabbing another kid at school, or armed robbery, that we advocate just telling them no.

I'm assuming that lil armed robbery was a first time offender, and never had any run-ins with the law before he was popped for robbery.

Coddling these kids isn't going to make them all of a sudden realize that what they are doing is wrong. Coddling them makes them think that the behavior is acceptable.

Its called a detention center, they are getting sent to Knot's Berry Farm for the summer because of all the good things they are doing.
 
2012-02-06 10:10:20 PM  

Marine1: Bathia_Mapes: Whodat: This 10-year-old, R., was brought in from school by a police officer. He had stabbed a schoolmate,

I don't think that is normal behavior. At least it wasn't at my elementary school.

Without knowing all the facts as to what led up to the stabbing, it's really hard to say what's normal and what isn't. For all we know the schoolmate that was stabbed may have been bullying the 10-year old for a long time and he just snapped and retaliated.

Totally plausible. I know that the administrators at my middle school didn't pay attention to the bullying I put up with until I finally shoved a kid into a row of lockers five feet away for knocking my trapper out of my hand. Needless to say, that shiat stopped afterwards.

The discipline of most public schools is for, the most part, utterly retarded. And I mean that in the "a person with an IQ of 70 could do better" way. They try to reason with kids that pick on other kids like they're adults. It's insanity.


Back when my niece was still in elementary school (7-8 years old at the time), she moved to a new school district. On her first day at the new school she got on the school bus and sat down near the back near some high school students. Minutes later she ran to the front of the bus crying because a couple of the male high school students stuck their hands up her skirt and tried to feel her up. The bus driver's response was to "Sit down, shut up and don't bother me while I'm driving".

My niece gets to school and calls her mom (my sister) to please come and pick her up. My niece is crying so hard that she can barely be understood. My sister shows up and demands a meeting with the principal and school bus driver.

What happened next damned near floored my sister. They tried to put all the blame on her daughter because "she sat down in the wrong part of the bus". My sister filed a formal complaint with the school board, but nothing was done to the principal, bus driver, or the boys who molested my niece.

Fortunately, the school system had an open enrollment policy, so my sister was able to get her transferred to another school. If that hadn't been a possibility, my sister planned to quit her job and homeschool her daughter.
 
2012-02-06 10:11:02 PM  
Jesus farking Christ I hate the criminal justice system, with it's thuggish cops, for-profit prison systems and prosecutors on the hunt for notches on their belt.

On the question of the stabbing, there was one kid in my 7th grade class who was a stereotypical nerd. Think Kyle's cousin Kyle on South Park. He got picked on a lot. The teachers either didn't know or didn't care. One day he got pissed and stabbed a kid with a pencil.

So yeah, if the kid in the photo pulled a knife and started getting all stabby, that's one thing. On the other hand, maybe this is one of those cases where the teachers can't be bothered to figure out what's going on and stage some kind of intervention besides "Zero tolerance! Throw him in juvie!"
 
2012-02-06 10:11:09 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: no matter what the reason was You were put in juvie with kids who had actually committed crimes.



i was in a similar situation as your friend. i was placed in the detention center (for delinquents) because the youth shelter (for dependents) was full. i was in the detention center a week before thanksgiving and was not released until after the new year. i was held for so long "because of the holidays".

i went into juvie pretty naive, as would any 12 year old from the poor side of the 'burbs. it took less than 6 weeks for me to be exposed to a whole realm of people i never thought i'd have conversations with: drug dealers, murderers, molesters, 17 year olds.

next thing i know i'm a 12 1/2 year old Newport smoker, playing pool, and kicking *arse* playing spades, .

/werd.
 
2012-02-06 10:11:46 PM  
See, THIS bothered me...

"Most of the kids at the Hawaii Youth Correctional Facility in Kailua have come from really horrific situations of abuse, drugs, and addiction."

Yes, a lot of times, these kids have done some pretty bad shiat, but here is where the problem lies; they are living in some shiat-ass family situations. The thing that bothers me the absolute worst is that when I was in the Group Home I was in, there were my kids who went through the system that had come from horrible family situations. Some of the other kids and I got bored at one point and went out at nights and got in trouble, broke into a few cars, slashed a few tires, stole a purse, broke into a church(Yeah, I'm going to Hell, I know). Anyway, we got caught of course, and I got probation, had to pay for stuff, etc... One of the other kids got punished by being sent BACK to his shiatty family situation. THIS is how this is resolved? Send the id back to an abusive, neglectful household where drugs are the norm? How does THAT fix the problem? No wonder our kids are farked up.

That and the fact that they arrest/Taser kids for ANYTHING nowdays, that's getting out of control also.
 
2012-02-06 10:13:06 PM  
Am I the only person who has never seen the word 'bonhomie' until this article? I even have an above-average vocabulary.
 
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