Indubitably: gimmegimme: Mikeyworld: I love the implied blackmail by government agencies. FTFA:

/"nice airport. Wouldn't want anything to happen to it"
//no parking in the red zone

Damn Obama. Damn Democrats. When will they stop stealing our civil liberties by starting agencies like the TSA? They just want to spend more money and have an excuse to collect more tax $$$.

Pffft.

Politics started, party aside, and you know that.

I would like you to consider the fact that Homeland Security and it's toilet brush, TSA, were an invention of Mr Cheney and his puppet, W

/Had to answer this
//who doesn't matter
///why, does

Mikeyworld: Indubitably: gimmegimme: Mikeyworld: I love the implied blackmail by government agencies. FTFA:

/"nice airport. Wouldn't want anything to happen to it"
//no parking in the red zone

Damn Obama. Damn Democrats. When will they stop stealing our civil liberties by starting agencies like the TSA? They just want to spend more money and have an excuse to collect more tax $$$.

Pffft.

Politics started, party aside, and you know that.

I would like you to consider the fact that Homeland Security and it's toilet brush, TSA, were an invention of Mr Cheney and his puppet, W

/Had to answer this
//who doesn't matter
///why, does

AND...scene.

;)

You guys don't ever give credit due. Just recently they confiscated an 1700's cannon ball from a diver.

Indubitably: gimmegimme: Mikeyworld: I love the implied blackmail by government agencies. FTFA:

"Again, the TSA had no choice. It is not well known, but the TSA must have permission to go onto private property. That makes no difference at airports because the TSA must approve any new airport security arrangements if the agency is ordered to leave. The TSA has made it known that it will immediately move its equipment out of any airport that tells it to leave, and it will take weeks or months to approve any new security arrangements and equipment."

Blackmail, pure and simple

/"nice airport. Wouldn't want anything to happen to it"
//no parking in the red zone

Damn Obama. Damn Democrats. When will they stop stealing our civil liberties by starting agencies like the TSA? They just want to spend more money and have an excuse to collect more tax $$$.

Pffft.

Politics started, party aside, and you know that.

I'm not sure if you're right. The Democrats were totally telling everyone that you have to "watch what you say" and that we need to "fight them over there so we don't fight them over here."

gimmegimme: Indubitably: gimmegimme: Mikeyworld: I love the implied blackmail by government agencies. FTFA:

"Again, the TSA had no choice. It is not well known, but the TSA must have permission to go onto private property. That makes no difference at airports because the TSA must approve any new airport security arrangements if the agency is ordered to leave. The TSA has made it known that it will immediately move its equipment out of any airport that tells it to leave, and it will take weeks or months to approve any new security arrangements and equipment."

Blackmail, pure and simple

/"nice airport. Wouldn't want anything to happen to it"
//no parking in the red zone

Damn Obama. Damn Democrats. When will they stop stealing our civil liberties by starting agencies like the TSA? They just want to spend more money and have an excuse to collect more tax $$$.

Pffft.

Politics started, party aside, and you know that.

I'm not sure if you're right. The Democrats were totally telling everyone that you have to "watch what you say" and that we need to "fight them over there so we don't fight them over here."

Seriously?

Really?

Please.

Indubitably: gimmegimme: Indubitably: gimmegimme: Mikeyworld: I love the implied blackmail by government agencies. FTFA:

"Again, the TSA had no choice. It is not well known, but the TSA must have permission to go onto private property. That makes no difference at airports because the TSA must approve any new airport security arrangements if the agency is ordered to leave. The TSA has made it known that it will immediately move its equipment out of any airport that tells it to leave, and it will take weeks or months to approve any new security arrangements and equipment."

Blackmail, pure and simple

/"nice airport. Wouldn't want anything to happen to it"
//no parking in the red zone

Damn Obama. Damn Democrats. When will they stop stealing our civil liberties by starting agencies like the TSA? They just want to spend more money and have an excuse to collect more tax $$$.

Pffft.

Politics started, party aside, and you know that.

I'm not sure if you're right. The Democrats were totally telling everyone that you have to "watch what you say" and that we need to "fight them over there so we don't fight them over here."

Seriously?

Really?

Please.

No; I was kidding. Indubitably was trying to blame the post-9/11 attacks on civil liberties on Democrats, and that's just silly. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but that was a joint project between WPac and Cheney Smalls.

SquiggelyGrounders: Would anyone else rather live with the real threat and danger of terrorism rather than a false sense of security w/ associated loss of rights?

Those two options are not mutually exclusive.

Smart move by the Amtrak Chief of Police. If he completely told them to go to hell, odds are they whine to Congress and get some kind of override passed. So instead he brings them in, but makes it so they are merely manpower that his officers control and train. Basically he expanded his own police force but is making the TSA foot the bill.

gimmegimme: Indubitably: gimmegimme: Indubitably: gimmegimme: Mikeyworld: I love the implied blackmail by government agencies. FTFA:

"Again, the TSA had no choice. It is not well known, but the TSA must have permission to go onto private property. That makes no difference at airports because the TSA must approve any new airport security arrangements if the agency is ordered to leave. The TSA has made it known that it will immediately move its equipment out of any airport that tells it to leave, and it will take weeks or months to approve any new security arrangements and equipment."

Blackmail, pure and simple

/"nice airport. Wouldn't want anything to happen to it"
//no parking in the red zone

Damn Obama. Damn Democrats. When will they stop stealing our civil liberties by starting agencies like the TSA? They just want to spend more money and have an excuse to collect more tax $$$.

Pffft.

Politics started, party aside, and you know that.

I'm not sure if you're right. The Democrats were totally telling everyone that you have to "watch what you say" and that we need to "fight them over there so we don't fight them over here."

Seriously?

Really?

Please.

No; I was kidding. Indubitably was trying to blame the post-9/11 attacks on civil liberties on Democrats, and that's just silly. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but that was a joint project between WPac and Cheney Smalls.

Nice.

You can play intentions all you want, Mr/Mrs Humor, but you are denied.

You, how shall I say, are unsuccessful?

;)

It's all messed up and there are no set-in-stone plans. Down here in the Florida Keys, at the Middle Keys airport, when Cape Air came in for all of six months of service to Fort Myers in 2009, you didn't get screened at the Middle Keys airport -- you could go right on the plane (granted, nine-passenger planes, but still commercial service). But you DID get "reverse" screened when you got off the plane in Fort Myers.

Tub
Stacking
Authority

Must be a really cool thing to have such broad operating authority.

I have to wonder if anyone at the TSA has ever read the history of totalatarian regimes, and how they rarely end well for their leaders and executives. At some point, the worm is going to turn, and it might look like Berlin towards the end of "Downfall" only the cardboard signs will read "I was a TSA employee!"

Unless we are the sheep they take us for.

Indubitably:

Nice.

You can play intentions all you want, Mr/Mrs Humor, but you are denied.

You, how shall I say, are unsuccessful?

;)

I like you because you sound like a Bond villain who has tied Bond up in a death machine and is about to explain his evil plan. Very slowly.

I really do think it's unfair not to blame the Republicans for the evil they have done. The mindless right-wing propaganda machine made it very difficult for anyone to use reason.

bmwericus: Tub
Stacking
Authority

Must be a really cool thing to have such broad operating authority.

I have to wonder if anyone at the TSA has ever read the history of totalatarian regimes, and how they rarely end well for their leaders and executives. At some point, the worm is going to turn, and it might look like Berlin towards the end of "Downfall" only the cardboard signs will read "I was a TSA employee!"

Unless we are the sheep they take us for.

Here's the difference: by the fall of Berlin, the civilians saw the Nazis as evil. A good 25% of Americans still can't tell how totalitarian the Republicans are.

gimmegimme: Indubitably:

Nice.

You can play intentions all you want, Mr/Mrs Humor, but you are denied.

You, how shall I say, are unsuccessful?

;)

I like you because you sound like a Bond villain who has tied Bond up in a death machine and is about to explain his evil plan. Very slowly.

I really do think it's unfair not to blame the Republicans for the evil they have done. The mindless right-wing propaganda machine made it very difficult for anyone to use reason.

What?

Dude/dudette, you are obviously daft of me?

Retardumblicans are MUCH to blame for the WAR ills, the FINANCIAL ills, and quite frankly, most of the ills of the last decades plus...

Please.

You reek of fear and a lack of education...

Or play.

Either:p-squared.

;)

Nuff Said McFarky: kd1s: The interesting thing to recall here is that Amtrak has it's OWN police. So good on them for teaching TSA how it's done!

All major railroads and many smaller ones in the US operate their own police force. Usually they're just there to chase away/arrest trespassers and assist with accident investigation, but the Amtrak ones also did the bulk of the security screening until the TSA arrived, then they switched to supervising the TSA clowns.

Good on Amtrak. I never feel pressured on Amtrak like I do walking through an airport TSA cancer-scanner. Heck, the TSA, Amtrak police, and MBTA (Boston transit) police were downright friendly and while visible, their presence never felt obtrusive. The airport TSA can learn a few things from them.

/Chicago TSA/transit police presence felt a little more intense.


THIS, and more so. TSA agents are not necessarily Law Enforcement Officers by strict definition. Railroad Police, OTOH, are bags carrying sward police officers with full arrest powers etc.

as the son of a career railroad man (worked his way up to engineer, about as high as you could go in the 1970s without a college education) I have to ask, what is so goddamned fascinating about railroads?

DrunkWithImpotence: Nuff Said McFarky: kd1s: The interesting thing to recall here is that Amtrak has it's OWN police. So good on them for teaching TSA how it's done!

All major railroads and many smaller ones in the US operate their own police force. Usually they're just there to chase away/arrest trespassers and assist with accident investigation, but the Amtrak ones also did the bulk of the security screening until the TSA arrived, then they switched to supervising the TSA clowns.

Good on Amtrak. I never feel pressured on Amtrak like I do walking through an airport TSA cancer-scanner. Heck, the TSA, Amtrak police, and MBTA (Boston transit) police were downright friendly and while visible, their presence never felt obtrusive. The airport TSA can learn a few things from them.

/Chicago TSA/transit police presence felt a little more intense.


THIS, and more so. TSA agents are not necessarily Law Enforcement Officers by strict definition. Railroad Police, OTOH, are bags carrying sward police officers with full arrest powers etc.

Read that as "badge carrying sworn police" FIFM

I still can't figure out why it is required to go through TSA after arriving from an international flight before catching a connection.

Are they admitting that every international flight isn't safe? Or are they just willfully wasting money?

People at airports are impotent when it comes to dealing with TSA. People at rail and bus stations can push the agents under moving vehicles. One way to reduce the number of agents.

9beers: Amtrak doesn't have shiat to say about it if it's decided that the TSA is going to take over security.

The TSA is SOL, 98% of the property that Amtrak uses is PRIVATE property owned by the host railroad. The only track that Amtrak actually owns is the North East Coridor that runs from DC to Boston.

sharkbeagle: On any given AMTRAK train there's maybe 7 people who aren't 400lb black women, on drugs or sleeping/crazy.

These people don't ride on my train. They have a tendency to stick with the buses around here. It's stupid though because most of the time the train is actually cheaper. Here it is students, professionals, middle-class. Oh, and Amish.You always run into an Amish family.

/Bluewater to Chicago for the win...

Walker: If terrorists want to kill people on a train they can just park a truck full of explosives on any of the thousands of miles of unguarded tracks or just stop on a public road that tracks run right over. Searching people with airport-like security is stupid for trains. Nothing is 100% safe. Yes, someone can walk onto a train with a bomb, but they can walk into a shopping mall with a bomb too. Do we need to go thru nude scanners to get into a shopping mall too? Probably one day knowing this country.

You haven't seen nothing yet. Yes, you will be going through full body x-ray scanners at your local malls, arenas, amusement parks, fairs, and any other major public facility. Enjoy the free cancer from the frequent radiation exposure. Homeland Security is slowly rolling out these machines so the Sheeples get accustomed to the government violating their 4th Amendment Rights. Wait until you go to a sporting event and have to go through F.A.S.T. trailers. Here is a video simulation on how F.A.S.T will be used.

Link (new window)

I actually think security is one of the major reasons investing in high speed rail projects would be a profoundly stupid thing to do in this country (besides being incredibly capital intensive and that there is exactly one high speed line (not entire systems) that is actually run in the black in the entire world (the Paris-Lyon line). Just an observation...

...thus, why the rail industry is being run over by the aviation industry in governmental favoritism.

/No, really, when's the last time you heard a stink about a "round-trip flight from Disneyland to the Bunny Ranch"?

Walker: If terrorists want to kill people on a train they can just park a truck full of explosives on any of the thousands of miles of unguarded tracks or just stop on a public road that tracks run right over.

Hell, who needs a bomb? Just stopping a car on the tracks'll do it.

/See: 2005, Glendale, California.

I thought it was amusing that the article stated that railroad employees often carry guns to kill rats without condemning the practice. Good!

Way back in World War 2, when my grandfather had guard duty, he had his regular service rifle and was given a .22 rifle to kill rats. That helps keep you awake.

pedobearapproved:
/I always thought that getting a group of like 20-25 terrorist together armed with semi-automatic guns and randomly shooting up malls and Walmart's over the course of a few days near Christmas time would be about the cheapest worst thing they could do.

I've heard of that notion several times over the years. I can't believe that the terrorists haven't thought about it either. What might the reason be that we haven't seen stuff like that happen?

DrunkWithImpotence: DrunkWithImpotence: Nuff Said McFarky: kd1s: The interesting thing to recall here is that Amtrak has it's OWN police. So good on them for teaching TSA how it's done!

All major railroads and many smaller ones in the US operate their own police force. Usually they're just there to chase away/arrest trespassers and assist with accident investigation, but the Amtrak ones also did the bulk of the security screening until the TSA arrived, then they switched to supervising the TSA clowns.

Good on Amtrak. I never feel pressured on Amtrak like I do walking through an airport TSA cancer-scanner. Heck, the TSA, Amtrak police, and MBTA (Boston transit) police were downright friendly and while visible, their presence never felt obtrusive. The airport TSA can learn a few things from them.

/Chicago TSA/transit police presence felt a little more intense.


THIS, and more so. TSA agents are not necessarily Law Enforcement Officers by strict definition. Railroad Police, OTOH, are bags carrying sward police officers with full arrest powers etc.

Read that as "badge carrying sworn police" FIFM

Good. For a moment I was thinking that Railroad Police roamed around with bags and swords.

Amagi: I actually think security is one of the major reasons investing in high speed rail projects would be a profoundly stupid thing to do in this country (besides being incredibly capital intensive and that there is exactly one high speed line (not entire systems) that is actually run in the black in the entire world (the Paris-Lyon line). Just an observation...

This. With all the hoopla over California's high speed rail, it would be much cheaper and worthwhile to cut a standard rail line directly from Bakersfield to Los Angeles and improve spur lines. The other train route is through the Tehachapi Loop which is one track, quite a bit out of the ways, and frequently heavily traveled by freight trains. A direct rail line to Las Vegas from California would be a boon.

FTA:

If passengers refuse the search, an Amtrak police officer is to courteously take them to the ticket counter and be certain they get a full refund.

So can someone explain to me how this will not become a federal lawsuit? A federal agency refuses the right of transit to a person on a publicly-funded mode of transportation (Amtrak is owned by the US government, remember) because they refuse to submit to a Constitutionally-prohibited search, and that's OK? If I could line up the lawyers willing to do it without getting paid, I would love to be the test case for this.

I'm sure rail service is great and all, but when it would take me 24 hours and a detour through Washington DC to go from West Palm Beach to Chicago (yes, I looked it up last summer when planning a trip) via train, then I'm sorry, rail service will never be as popular as flying, even with the TSA's stupidity.

I'm all for expanded rail service throughout the US. But it's just never going to happen, sadly.

How about the 4^th amendment, you pussies?

just passing through: /yes, I do travel a good bit

You aren't helping, civilian.

One of the few selling points the rail system has is the speed in which you can get on board and get under way.

Time in airport is a major hassle when flying, and that airports are generally a distance out of town. And this is what's convenient for trains for smallish trips - they're much faster from door to door.

E.g., London to Paris is just as fast by rail as by 'plane when you factor in getting to and from airports, and time in airport. And the train is a much more pleasant trip because you're not in an airport.

If the TSA was to set up security screening at Amtrak stations, it would remove one of the few reasons left to catch a train for a lot of short trips.

For long trips, flying is still the only realistic option.

Walker: If terrorists want to kill people on a train they can just park a truck full of explosives on any of the thousands of miles of unguarded tracks or just stop on a public road that tracks run right over. Searching people with airport-like security is stupid for trains. Nothing is 100% safe. Yes, someone can walk onto a train with a bomb, but they can walk into a shopping mall with a bomb too. Do we need to go thru nude scanners to get into a shopping mall too? Probably one day knowing this country.

The TSA is not about safety, it's about lining you up so they can put their hands on you.

Mad Tea Party: Walker: Yes, someone can walk onto a train with a bomb, but they can walk into a shopping mall with a bomb too. Do we need to go thru nude scanners to get into a shopping mall too?

Shhh! Don't give the TSA any clever ideas!

They already have that idea.

i love the train. if i could live my life riding trains around the country, i would.

"not to mention that many yard employees unofficially carry guns to kill rats, and they could kill a rat in the weeds that turned out to be a human being"

I giggled like a little girl.

ansius: E.g., London to Paris is just as fast by rail as by 'plane when you factor in getting to and from airports, and time in airport. And the train is a much more pleasant trip because you're not in an airport.

THIS THIS THIS THIS.

Last Summer , took the Eurostar from Gare Nord to King's Cross, walked three blocks and took an express first-class train to Edinburgh. It was Brilliant, luxurious, and just as easy as pumpkin pie - and I'm including the Customs/passport check into the UK that was about as intrusive as any courthouse check in the US.

My big, fat in-laws were happy in their big-fat seats, and we marveled at the wonders of the french countryside. Then we marveled at the English countryside. The Only way they could make it better is if the seatbacks had an engine-mounted cam that let you experience the speed of the train rushing along the tracks head-first!

I really don't know why people shiat on trains. Derailments aren't a huge concern, they're extremely relaxing, and you can bring like a pound of weed on 'em. I'd take an Amtrak trip over Greyhound ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

Caveat: Most of this traveling has been west of Colorado

SphericalTime: My favorite part of this article is that it appears that the Amtrak police are refusing to cover up the incompetence of the VIPR teams and requests.

If only all agencies felt so free to criticize each other.

To be fair, the railroad companies have been through this before - in the late 1800s there was a whole anarchist movement that was into bombing shiat, and during every war before Vietnam, railyards were made the topic of intense security studies. I am sure the Amtrak Top Cop (as well as his analogues in CSX and all the other rail companies) has read all those documents and is running a lively security operation on his own - and everyone knows that The public is the best ally in good security. If the Cops have the public trust, then they have multiplied their eyeballs a thousandfold. Without it, they are blind and crippled.

ansius: One of the few selling points the rail system has is the speed in which you can get on board and get under way.

... which is then killed by the sometimes-seven-and-one-half-hour layovers. Just was cruising the Amtrak site and picked up on that little factoid. Holy-farking-buzz-kill, Batman!

ko_kyi: as the son of a career railroad man (worked his way up to engineer, about as high as you could go in the 1970s without a college education) I have to ask, what is so goddamned fascinating about railroads?

Well, they're a bit old-school, at least in the US. The sound of the cars over the tracks just hasn't changed all that much, not the way the sound of autos has changed, what with developments in both road construction and engine design. When I took the admittedly long trip from Michigan to Philadelphia by rail, I road in these lovely, relaxing modern passenger cars, yet there was an element of history, too. You can close your eyes and pretend you're in another time, another place.

Trains have a mystique about them, at least to some of us.

phule: "not to mention that many yard employees unofficially carry guns to kill rats, and they could kill a rat in the weeds that turned out to be a human being"

I giggled like a little girl.

I think they misspelled "hobos".

Amagi: I actually think security is one of the major reasons investing in high speed rail projects would be a profoundly stupid thing to do in this country (besides being incredibly capital intensive and that there is exactly one high speed line (not entire systems) that is actually run in the black in the entire world (the Paris-Lyon line). Just an observation...

Ummmmmmmm. Amtrak runs the NEC in the black. Dispite the top speed of 150mph, on 100 year old right of ways. Granted, much of the proffit comes from local transit paying track rights as well as the freight lines ponying up to use the rails after midnight. The NEC sees far more traffic now, both passenger and freight, than it did at the peek of WW2.

Please.

If terrorists were going to attack passenger rail, the last thing they'd do is board the train or even go anywhere near the station. They've apparently mastered making remote controlled IEDs; one of those on any of the tens of thousands of miles of unguarded track would kill many and allow the operative to live, slip away, and strike again.

I'm sure it's easier to find someone for such a mission than a "martyrdom operation"