It is a little like pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps which is by definition, impossible. Except int this case the immigrants don't even have boots.

So... arrest all the illegals and then contract with the prison system to handle farm labor for 50 cents/inmate/hour.

Win win win.

Knara: The myth that Americans don't want to do physical labor is ridiculous. The truth is that they will do physical labor for a living *if they can make a livable wage off of it*.

Of course, the reason they can't do that is because the US is also, generally, against the unions that make such wages possible.

What's a livable wage? And if we removed all the illegals, and forced the unskilled farm labor to be paid $10/hour... do you have any idea how much every American's grocery bill would go up?

Money isn't free. Any time you force wages to be raised, everyone pays for it. Especially when its a commodity. Because there is very little one can innovate in producing a commodity like food to offset said wages.

odinsposse: fracto73: downstairs: What's a livable wage? And if we removed all the illegals, and forced the unskilled farm labor to be paid $10/hour... do you have any idea how much every American's grocery bill would go up?


No, how much?

A quick google says

For a typical household, a 40 percent increase in farm labor costs translates into a 3.6 percent increase in retail prices. If farm wages rose 40 percent, and this wage increase were passed on to consumers, average spending on fresh fruits and vegetables would rise about $15 a year, the cost of two movie tickets. However, for a typical seasonal farm worker, a 40 percent wage increase could raise earnings from $10,000 for 1,000 hours of work to $14,000 - lifting the wage above the federal poverty line.

Doesn't pass the smell test. Where is the other 36.4% absorbed?

Brostorm: The falling unemployment rate in Alabama proves that Americans WILL do these jobs. The answer has always been to punish businesses.

You do realize it's farking the middle of winter and there aren't very many jobs picking crops after late October / early November, right?

But keep farking that chicken.

However, there will continue to be a demand for their labor. At least 7 million illegal immigrants are in the American work force, in many cases doing jobs most Americans consider too dirty or unsuited to their educational attainment.

this is complete bullshiat. there are no jobs that are too dirty or unsuited to the educational attainment of americans; there are only jobs where the prevailing wage has been driven so low by the 10 million illegal aliens in the work force that these dumb coonts helped big business lure in that americans don't think it's worth the meager pay any longer.

the unemployment rate for unskilled americans is near 15%. these people are taking the jobs and lowing the value of labor of the poorest citizens among us.

another thing to think about. the boomers are retiring. additionally this country is barely at a replacement birthrate. right now the labor force should be shrinking and jobs should be easier to find as less and less people are in the labor force to compete for them. but this is happening. why? why when america creates 120,000 jobs a month is that not enough to even budge the unemployment rate?
because we are bringing in more workers to compete with ourselves than can be offset by the retiring boomers. in the midst of the great recession. in a country that hasn't seen the median wage move in 40 years thanks to these immigration policies. we should be seeing tightening labor markets and a rise in wages as businesses compete for everyone's services. but we aren't. we are seeing the opposite.

if you ever want to know how you can help the 1%ers get even richer, the answer is to listen to a liberal about immigration and to keep these policies in place. it is as simple as supply and demand in the labor market.





so what happened in the late 1960's? the democrats passed a bill that was designed to flood the country with excess immigrants and labor in order to secure their parties future at the expense of every American citizen but especially the poor.


"In 2006 the United States accepted more legal immigrants as permanent residents than all other countries in the world combined.[1] After ethnic quotas on immigration were removed in 1965[2] the number of actual (first-generation) immigrants living in the United States eventually quadrupled,[3] from 9.6 million in 1970 to about 38 million in 2007.[4] Over one million persons were naturalized as U.S. citizens in 2008. The leading countries of origin of immigrants to the United States were Mexico, India, the Philippines, and China.[5] Nearly 14 million immigrants entered the United States from 2000 to 2010.[6]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States (new window)

downstairs: odinsposse: fracto73: downstairs: What's a livable wage? And if we removed all the illegals, and forced the unskilled farm labor to be paid $10/hour... do you have any idea how much every American's grocery bill would go up?


No, how much?

A quick google says

For a typical household, a 40 percent increase in farm labor costs translates into a 3.6 percent increase in retail prices. If farm wages rose 40 percent, and this wage increase were passed on to consumers, average spending on fresh fruits and vegetables would rise about $15 a year, the cost of two movie tickets. However, for a typical seasonal farm worker, a 40 percent wage increase could raise earnings from $10,000 for 1,000 hours of work to $14,000 - lifting the wage above the federal poverty line.

Doesn't pass the smell test. Where is the other 36.4% absorbed?

Math is hard.

monoski: ox45tallboy: Brostorm: The falling unemployment rate in Alabama proves that Americans WILL do these jobs. The answer has always been to punish businesses.

You do realize it's farking the middle of winter and there aren't very many jobs picking crops after late October / early November, right?

But keep farking that chicken.

Alabama's job gains were primarily in the automotive sector, there is no evidence of any job gains in the farm sector plus there are farmers who are plowing their crops under since they cannot find anyone to harvest them at a wage that can compete. Nice try though.

90% of illegal immigrants work in non farm sector labor markets.

relcec: "In 2006 the United States accepted more legal immigrants as permanent residents than all other countries in the world combined.[1] After ethnic quotas on immigration were removed in 1965[2] the number of actual (first-generation) immigrants living in the United States eventually quadrupled,[3] from 9.6 million in 1970 to about 38 million in 2007.[4] Over one million persons were naturalized as U.S. citizens in 2008. The leading countries of origin of immigrants to the United States were Mexico, India, the Philippines, and China.[5] Nearly 14 million immigrants entered the United States from 2000 to 2010.[6]"

Okay I'm well aware that this is a logical fallacy, and I'm not putting it up as a point of advocacy for either side of the debate on illegal immigration, but I must point this out:

Why is it that Conservatives are so quick to point out the immigration policies of other countries, and say, "why can't we be more like them? They don't put up with illegal immigration!" but the second a liberal points to other countries and their single-payer health care system that gives virtually every one of their citizens better health care than the average American, the liberals are called "un-American" and labeled as Communists for daring to compare the US to other countries.

monoski: ox45tallboy: Brostorm: The falling unemployment rate in Alabama proves that Americans WILL do these jobs. The answer has always been to punish businesses.

You do realize it's farking the middle of winter and there aren't very many jobs picking crops after late October / early November, right?

But keep farking that chicken.

Alabama's job gains were primarily in the automotive sector, there is no evidence of any job gains in the farm sector plus there are farmers who are plowing their crops under since they cannot find anyone to harvest them at a wage that can compete. Nice try though.

Ummmm... you actually just proved my point. Illegals are more likely to work in service or agricultural positions, not manufacturing; therefore it is a logical fallacy to state that the reduction in unemployment after the creation of new manufacturing jobs was actually due to a tough stance on illegal immigration.

Nice try, though.