supageil: Argue with this and prove your moral unfitness.

You prove that you failed Rhetoric 101, which proves your intellectual unfitness. I guess that makes us even?

Just wanted to say thank you to the people sharing their stories in here.

I don't know if I'd have the courage.

ChimbleySweep: serial_crusher: a 15 year old raping a 14 year old isn't quite as bad as a 25 year old raping a 14 year old.

How do you figure?

The difference is minor.

KiplingKat872: I mean, once she said, "No, we should stop," twice (which he admits to) and he kept going, he became a rapist. There is no way around that.

You keep saying this but it doesn't make it true. That one line you're making into an absolute is only re-telling of a conversation. A conversation she states was well over an hour but it is condensed into a 30 second online chat version. The fact is, you don't have any idea what he said during that conversation, and just by the nature of the subject, it's easy to see how both would highlight and bold very different parts of that conversation that could lead to two entirely different scenarios: without even having any malice or lying intent. Now factor in that one person could be lying and you could derive any number of scenarios from this conversation.

She says "No", but somehow it then became "OK". but he's still a rapist because "No Means No".

So if a girl says no, but a week later they're flirting both sober and she comes to him and saying they should pickup where they left off, is that rape because "no means no"?

Probably not. So there is some grey area of when then line is reached. He what he really said during this (hour long) conversation, was more to the effect of "Yeah, you were saying no, at least once, maybe a few times, so nothing happened. We were making out the whole time, and after a while you jumped on top of me and were really aggressive, So i thought then everything was OK?"

Does he still have to restrain himself from a willing participant because prior in the night she said no?

Much more of a grey area.

Now we can even envision in a scenario where said no, but after making out for a few minutes, he tries again and she doesn't refuse. Now we have an incredibly complicated area where she could be being raped but he has no idea. Obviously we have to have some demarkation of where a rape was committed and when it wasn't. But it's alot more convuluted than your post makes it to be.

Not to mention, if we are going to take this 30 second blurb of the conversation as absolute gold: then we should also accept that it appears she specifically went to the warehouse to give the boys sexual favors, they were already on drugs (it appears she was on drugs most of these years, so it wasn't any "lets drug her" motivation), and there is no mention of her saying "no" to the two other guys she was fellating. Even with the leash and derogotary remarks, the facebook guy only says "If you said they forced you, I would believe it" and states how they were being mean. No mention from him saying "you were saying no and tried to stop". This guy is also clearly rationalize his own actions, denouncing the first guy and the second guy would do anything he said. But what about the two other people present at the warehous? Were they even boys, or girls? Did they take partake in the action? They try to stop anything? Those details were left out, by both of them it seems.

And the fact that she was overweight, likely saw these guys as cooler and wanted their attention, and appears to have specifically went to that warehouse for the purpose of giving sexual favors to them, that part of the story could likely be 100% consensual. It still sucks to be an overweight lonely teenager and find yourself blowing guys in a warehouse for sexual attention, and is likely to be traumatic nonetheless regardless if she finds out it was consensual. If they had videotaped the whole affair and she saw herself enthusiastically deepthroating them as they loutishly called for "no penguin head", do you think that would make her feel any better about herself? So you can see how things can still be traumatic, we can say that they are innapropritate, and everyone involved is a scumbag, though it is not rape.

But that's the conclusion you can draw when you have 1% of the story, a blog post with a 30 second internet chat, derived from an hour long conversation from some buffoon rationalizing his own events 10 years after the event.

residentgeek: Just wanted to say thank you to the people sharing their stories in here.

I don't know if I'd have the courage.

Considering that mist of them are fabricated/embellished, I'd say yeah, you could muster the "courage."

residentgeek: Just wanted to say thank you to the people sharing their stories in here.

I don't know if I'd have the courage.

You are welcome. although I did not get the answer I was hoping for it felt good to "open up".

Meh. This is farked up peoples problems.

I can't rape less than zero - end of story. And I don't need to be some super-anti-rapist, turning up to slutwalks and chanting "go girls" to show how progressive I am. I just don't rape, and that is all that is required.

It's not even hard either. It required no education, lecturing of convincing. It's normal to not want to rape.

F - "No means no!"
M - "Who cares, I'm not after sex. I am just drinking my coffee"
F - "That's not the approved party line, you must be some rape-apologists..."
M - *puts on headphones like a boss*

RoyBatty: KiplingKat872: oy, I will address the one point I can speak to, which is the experience of being a rape survivor.The hypersensitivty and unpredictable rage, the severe depression (I realized at one point I had gone six months without changing the sheets on my bed) meant I also lost my friends, a couple jobs, dropped out of school. It took me ten years to get back on track in terms of my education, but I still struggle with feelings of shame and self hatred. I still have suicidal thoughts sometimes. I also have not been able to maintain a relationship over 18 months. Ever. Sex isn't the problem, it's emotional intimacy I struggle with. I even have a difficult time forming and maintaining friendships.Living with the aftermath of rape is like living with a giant squid that has it's tentacles wrapped into your preceptions and reactions. You can ignore it for a long time, but it is still pulling your strings. I have spent years in therapy working on putting the squid in perspective, putting it in a box, and learning to live around it. I hope one day to be able to do more than live around it, but have a full life in spite of it.I am not comparing my experience to yours as I have not been through what you have and do not know how you have suffered. I am just saying this is my experience as a rape victim. It's an earth shattering moment, where everything you think you can count on in human nature, in others and yourself, fails you. And the repercussion of that is very severe, very twisted, and very long lasting.

I hear ya. So, not to lessen what you have been through, and I am sorry you had to endure it at all, but I recognize each and everyone of these feelings and situations. Right down to the loss of trust and intimacy, down to the 10 year period and longer to get over it.

When I hear women dismiss the nature, and harm of false accusations or state that by bringing them up I am a rape apologist, it makes me weary, angry, and at times, it makes me just want to die. Seriously.

That there are false accusations and that they ruin people's lives, I have never denied. During a very nasty divorce, one of my friend's exes accused him if molesting their four year old girl. He hadn't, but in the years it took for the courts to prove it, he lost his job, many of his friends, and struggled with severe depression.

I was sitting in on one court case after my jury had been dismissed. A college girl accusing this guy of assault. (Grabbing and shaking her.) It was clear there was something very odd, as she stayed in the house with him a full day afterwards and then waited nine days to go to the police. He was the best friend if her ex and it was obvious there was some weird revenge thing going on. But she was young and pretty and the guy was tall and brown and to even the judge's dismay, the jury ruled, "guilty."

Yes, false accusations do happen and they destroy lives.

The issue I think is that they need to be discussed separately from discussions of rape like this. Could this story be a misinterpretation, exaggeration, or completely fabricated? Yes, that is possible. But when the false accusation argument is brought up every single time rape is discussed, it creates a very hostile environment for those that are struggling in the aftermath of a rape.

I just think that both the discussions of rape and of false accusations would be more rational and productive if separated so that people who have been raped feel safe to come forward and discuss it openly. This will also allow people like you to discuss your violation without muddying the discussion without people gettung defensive.

I'm not giving an opinion on the story as it was told.

However, this is all from her writing. It's her account. We don't even know if this guy really exists, or if he's a character she made up to get more hits on her story. I'm not calling her a liar. I'm saying we just don't know because there's no real evidence that the entire article is based in truth. All we have is a tiny graphic of a male being contacted by her in which she provides her email address, and then her transcript of the conversation they allegedly had.

At no point is there anything to prove that he said what she says he said. At no point is there anything to prove he even exists.

This isn't about rape or not-rape. This is about truth or not-truth. I've been in the unique position of being a rape victim AND being accused (falsely) of sexual harassment, and in both situations it comes down to what version of the truth reflected reality. In both situations, I was found-- through investigation-- to be the one with the actual truth on my side.

Rape is awful. Nobody is disputing that. Sexual attacks of any kind are vile.

However, we're still at point A in this discussion: Did this really happen, or is she just a blogger on a mission with a good story? It all seems kind of convenient that she happens to be who she is, doing what she does, and this rapist drops out of the blue to have a civil conversation with her.

I'm not calling her a liar. I'm just saying we don't know. We've only got one side of the story, and nobody has stepped forward to give any other point of view. The guy in question-- should he even exist-- has not had an opportunity to speak for himself.

And, should he be real, I am a firm believer in NOT letting the alleged victim of a crime be the only one who is allowed to relate the words of the accused. He deserves a chance to say his side and have it relayed by HIM, not through her. We don't know what she did to embellish, alter, or twist his words. We don't know if he even said those words.

And again, this is all assuming he's not a character she created for publicity's sake.

If she was raped, if all she said is true, then he's a villain for harming a girl, and deserves scorn.

If she's making this up, then she's a villain for her blatant misandry, and deserves scorn.

If she's making up only part of it, or altered his words in any way, then she deserves pity, suspicion and scrutiny while he deserves a chance to speak for himself.

There's a reason we allow defendants to face their accusers in court. In this case, the alleged defendant hasn't been given an opportunity to do so. His accuser is speaking for him. That's not right.

If everything everyone else said about me were true, you'd be talking to a mass-murderer, a satanist, a witch and a latent homosexual who died in 1992. Luckily, just because someone says something is true doesn't mean it IS true, and I have been around to give my side of every story to the satisfaction of all involved.

What about the guy in this story?

/No, I never killed anyone, never worshiped the devil, I'm not homosexual, and I am very much alive.

Teen Wolf Blitzer: retrograde: Here is my CSB:

I'm male. When I was in college I shared a house with some guys and we would have frequent parties. One time at one of these parties a girl, an acquaintance, came into my room and shut the door. She was one of those girls with a gorgeous face but carrying about an extra 40 pounds or so. We talked for awhile and then she leaned over and kissed me and put her hand between my legs. I had a girlfriend at the time so I pulled away. She then proceeded to undress and tell me that unless I had sex with her that she would scream and everyone would hear. So, of course, I did. I was pissed that she had threatened me so I was less than gentle with her but this just seem to excite her even more. Afterwards she got dressed, kissed me on the forehead and left. I saw her many times after this and she never once let on that anything had ever happened between us.

So, I suppose I am a rape victim.

You're not a rape victim. You're doing a disservice to actual victims of rape.

Yes, he is!

Was it "rape" when one of my attackers pinned me to the ground with a knife to my throat and said, "If you scream or fight, I'll kill you."? Once he said that, I stopped fighting. I zoned out and let him do whatever he wanted to. Did that mean it wasn't rape?

This woman's actions were EVERY BIT as threatening as that knife was to me. He WAS a rape victim, and there's no other way to color that.

Teen Wolf Blitzer: KiplingKat872: Teen Wolf Blitzer: What rape SHOULD mean: "He held me down and penetrated me while I resisted with every fiber of my being."

What rape NOW means, "I got wasted and had sex with a guy and somewhere around the 15 minute mark I may have whispered 'no'..."

Great job tards

Wow, doubling up false delima and strawman argumentative fallacies. Impressive.

/ Golf clap

You have to agree on some level that the dilution of the term "rape" does a huge disservice to the victims of actual rape, right? Or maybe we need "degrees" of rape, similar to murder charges.

The people I see most frequently misusing the term rape are the apologists, people who read a story like this one, an incapacitated 14 year old girl who verbally protested in the midst of being sexually exploited by three older boys, and call it "morning after regrets."

sweet-daddy-2: pgh9fan: MaudlinMutantMollusk: 06/06/2011

I know this article is older, but I first heard the story on a Pittsburgh public radio station yesterday. They interviewed her. It was absolutely riveting. i was stunned at the way she handled it. I talked about the story to my co-workers and their reaction was like mine. She is a better person than I am. I am male, so I can never completely understand, but I think I would have never been able to do what she did when responding to the friend request. She was definitely my person-of-the-day yesterday.

/Subby

Being male does not exclude you from never understanding.Male on male rape does happen,and not just in lock-up. God forbid that you should ever become a victim.But if you do,out the S.O.B. before he dies. It may help you feel better.

Trust me. No, it doesn't.

ChuDogg: [i43.tinypic.com image 640x451]

Pretty much this.

There is a pretty farking big difference between that situation (and the articles) and "being grabbed from behind, stuffed somewhere, raped til you bleed profusely and left lying a gutter".

People must be responsible for their own actions. All people. Should he have stopped if she said stop? Yes, he should have. Should she have attempted to force the issue if he didn't? Yes.

Should she be surprised that she got sexual attention wearing "provocative" clothing and actively encouraging the sexual attention? Hell no.

Is the average guy going to be confused if you dress provocatively, encourage sexual attention, then cock block them? Hell yes.

She (by her own admittance) contributed to her situation by encouraging that type of attention, worse still from shiatty guys. She seems to be able to view it all honestly though and that's good.

/don't think hero tag is applicable though.

RoyBatty: KiplingKat872: oy, I will address the one point I can speak to, which is the experience of being a rape survivor.The hypersensitivty and unpredictable rage, the severe depression (I realized at one point I had gone six months without changing the sheets on my bed) meant I also lost my friends, a couple jobs, dropped out of school. It took me ten years to get back on track in terms of my education, but I still struggle with feelings of shame and self hatred. I still have suicidal thoughts sometimes. I also have not been able to maintain a relationship over 18 months. Ever. Sex isn't the problem, it's emotional intimacy I struggle with. I even have a difficult time forming and maintaining friendships.Living with the aftermath of rape is like living with a giant squid that has it's tentacles wrapped into your preceptions and reactions. You can ignore it for a long time, but it is still pulling your strings. I have spent years in therapy working on putting the squid in perspective, putting it in a box, and learning to live around it. I hope one day to be able to do more than live around it, but have a full life in spite of it.I am not comparing my experience to yours as I have not been through what you have and do not know how you have suffered. I am just saying this is my experience as a rape victim. It's an earth shattering moment, where everything you think you can count on in human nature, in others and yourself, fails you. And the repercussion of that is very severe, very twisted, and very long lasting.

I hear ya. So, not to lessen what you have been through, and I am sorry you had to endure it at all, but I recognize each and everyone of these feelings and situations. Right down to the loss of trust and intimacy, down to the 10 year period and longer to get over it.

When I hear women dismiss the nature, and harm of false accusations or state that by bringing them up I am a rape apologist, it makes me weary, angry, and at times, it makes me just want to die. Seriously.

And to be clear, I am very sorry you are struggling with such destructively vile slander. No one deserves that.

So a bunch of people get drunk and do stupid things, then one has regrets about it and can't live with the guilt, so that person defers and projects, and siince that person is female and the others are older males its rape.

Got it. Not a stupid cumdumpster trying to be cool and realizing that she got herself in way over her head.

There's a big difference between rape and letting yourself do something stupid. She blamed other people and ruined their lives. She should have just dealt with the fact that she made some huge mistakes instead of convincing herself - and others - that she wasn't complicit, willing, and responsible for the events.

But noooooo! Feminism, equality, and hypocrisy.

Rubberband Girl: Troublesome Strumpet - Yeah. . . from the sounds of the conversation, D said one of the guys brought him there claiming this girl was gonna give them head. Sounded planned.

Either way, how a dog collar and leash *can't* be considered a restraint boggles me.


Agreed. The restraint being a dog collar rather than, say, a belt one of the guys happened to be wearing points to premeditation in my mind. Sort of the difference between premeditated murder and a "crime of passion" - in both cases, someone ends up dead but events leading up to that point tell us something about the mens rea (am I using that term right?).

Uh, it was premeditated. The whole thing began with her going to the warehouse specifically to give sexual favors.

morgantx: Teen Wolf Blitzer: retrograde: Here is my CSB:

I'm male. When I was in college I shared a house with some guys and we would have frequent parties. One time at one of these parties a girl, an acquaintance, came into my room and shut the door. She was one of those girls with a gorgeous face but carrying about an extra 40 pounds or so. We talked for awhile and then she leaned over and kissed me and put her hand between my legs. I had a girlfriend at the time so I pulled away. She then proceeded to undress and tell me that unless I had sex with her that she would scream and everyone would hear. So, of course, I did. I was pissed that she had threatened me so I was less than gentle with her but this just seem to excite her even more. Afterwards she got dressed, kissed me on the forehead and left. I saw her many times after this and she never once let on that anything had ever happened between us.

So, I suppose I am a rape victim.

You're not a rape victim. You're doing a disservice to actual victims of rape.

Yes, he is!

Was it "rape" when one of my attackers pinned me to the ground with a knife to my throat and said, "If you scream or fight, I'll kill you."? Once he said that, I stopped fighting. I zoned out and let him do whatever he wanted to. Did that mean it wasn't rape?

This woman's actions were EVERY BIT as threatening as that knife was to me. He WAS a rape victim, and there's no other way to color that.

No, the woman's action were not every bit as threatening as your situation. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

cuzsis: ChuDogg: [i43.tinypic.com image 640x451]

Pretty much this.

There is a pretty farking big difference between that situation (and the articles) and "being grabbed from behind, stuffed somewhere, raped til you bleed profusely and left lying a gutter".

People must be responsible for their own actions. All people. Should he have stopped if she said stop? Yes, he should have. Should she have attempted to force the issue if he didn't? Yes.

Should she be surprised that she got sexual attention wearing "provocative" clothing and actively encouraging the sexual attention? Hell no.

Is the average guy going to be confused if you dress provocatively, encourage sexual attention, then cock block them? Hell yes.

She (by her own admittance) contributed to her situation by encouraging that type of attention, worse still from shiatty guys. She seems to be able to view it all honestly though and that's good.

/don't think hero tag is applicable though.

*shakes head*

People just don't get it.

shivashakti: Wow. As someone who has raped, that really hit home with me. I admire her bravery in confronting him.

Wait wait, what? You admit to being a rapist? Did you mean "has been" raped? In this case, I really hope so. You did, right?

Nihilist's Guide to Reticent Entropy: I'm not giving an opinion on the story as it was told.

However, this is all from her writing. It's her account. We don't even know if this guy really exists, or if he's a character she made up to get more hits on her story. I'm not calling her a liar. I'm saying we just don't know because there's no real evidence that the entire article is based in truth. All we have is a tiny graphic of a male being contacted by her in which she provides her email address, and then her transcript of the conversation they allegedly had.

At no point is there anything to prove that he said what she says he said. At no point is there anything to prove he even exists.

This isn't about rape or not-rape. This is about truth or not-truth. I've been in the unique position of being a rape victim AND being accused (falsely) of sexual harassment, and in both situations it comes down to what version of the truth reflected reality. In both situations, I was found-- through investigation-- to be the one with the actual truth on my side.

Rape is awful. Nobody is disputing that. Sexual attacks of any kind are vile.

However, we're still at point A in this discussion: Did this really happen, or is she just a blogger on a mission with a good story? It all seems kind of convenient that she happens to be who she is, doing what she does, and this rapist drops out of the blue to have a civil conversation with her.

I'm not calling her a liar. I'm just saying we don't know. We've only got one side of the story, and nobody has stepped forward to give any other point of view. The guy in question-- should he even exist-- has not had an opportunity to speak for himself.

And, should he be real, I am a firm believer in NOT letting the alleged victim of a crime be the only one who is allowed to relate the words of the accused. He deserves a chance to say his side and have it relayed by HIM, not through her. We don't know what she did to embellish, alter, or twist his words. We don't know if he even said th ...

And I just want to clarify: If it happened like she says it happened, he's a scumbag and deserves punishment.

My issue is not with the details of her story. It's with the ORIGIN of her story. I simply don't know enough to know if this is truth, creative fiction, or something in-between. All I have is her side of the story, in her words.

That's not enough for me to call for someone's lynching. I need to KNOW there's guilt before I throw myself on one side or another.

Valarius: Ladies of Fark




I'm sorry for the trauma you've endured. On behalf of the men who don't suck, I wish you a Happy Valentine's Day.

You pussy.

shivashakti: AbbeySomeone:
You're a rapist?

HAHAHA! Whoops..that's a hell of a typo. No, no..someone who has BEEN raped.

Okay, cool, well, not cool because you were raped, but you know what I mean. You never know with Fark. Stranger things have been said with confidence.

Rubberband Girl: AndreMA - Or perhaps one of them happened to have had a dog on a leash, walking it with the group of kids, when they arrived at the warehouse. It's not as either/or as you portray.


Where was there mention of a dog in TFA?

No, but the author recalled handcuffs and seemed OK accepting that she'd had a memory error. She didn't recall the dog collar herself; perhaps we should assume it didn't exist at all?

She admits to being under the influence and not having complete memory of the events in the warehouse. She also asserts trauma that - if true - would mess with someone's memory as well. I'm merely proposing a possible alternative to the proposition that the existence of a dog collar automatically demonstrates premeditation. A group of teenagers where one is walking a dog (after school, perhaps) is hardly an unusual event.

Someone else suggested that given the timeframe and ages, the collar might have been present by being worn by a goth-y person present.

tblax: bhcompy: Valarius: Ladies of Fark

[images.blogstream.com image 455x400]


I'm sorry for the trauma you've endured. On behalf of the men who don't suck, I wish you a Happy Valentine's Day.

Only girls can be raped? I'm a male. By the textbook definition, I was raped by a female(and she stole my virginity). I said no, she said yes, then she sat on it. I told her to stop and she didn't.

Clearly something about that aroused you or it wouldn't have been possible.
Not rape
Troll or fool, cannot tell

Bullshiat. Women who are raped sometimes have an orgasm...so by that definition...she wasnt raped if she orgasms.

You are an ignorant fool of EPIC proportions.

Nihilist's Guide to Reticent Entropy: I'm not giving an opinion on the story as it was told.
[...]

Rape apologist! Misogynist!

BURN HIM!

AndreMA: Nihilist's Guide to Reticent Entropy: I'm not giving an opinion on the story as it was told.
[...]

Rape apologist! Misogynist!

BURN HIM!

I'm convinced he has raped at least 50% of the women posting in this thread.

Teen Wolf Blitzer: KiplingKat872: Teen Wolf Blitzer: What rape SHOULD mean: "He held me down and penetrated me while I resisted with every fiber of my being."

What rape NOW means, "I got wasted and had sex with a guy and somewhere around the 15 minute mark I may have whispered 'no'..."

Great job tards

Wow, doubling up false delima and strawman argumentative fallacies. Impressive.

/ Golf clap

You have to agree on some level that the dilution of the term "rape" does a huge disservice to the victims of actual rape, right? Or maybe we need "degrees" of rape, similar to murder charges.

I. e., "rape rape"?

Great job.

Teen Wolf Blitzer: I'm convinced he has raped at least 50% of the women posting in this thread.

And a third of the men...

Not That There's Anything MORE Wrong With That

Valarius: Ladies of Fark




I'm sorry for the trauma you've endured. On behalf of the men who don't suck, I wish you a Happy Valentine's Day.

Well, after everyone giving you a hard time, I will say, "Thank you. And I hope you have a lovely Valentines as well."

Three guys handcuff, leash, and gang rape a 14 year-old girl, and out come the Fark apologists to blame the girl by the score. Trolling and biting humor aside, a lot of you people are total pieces of shiate, and I take solace in the knowledge that you are trapped inside that squirming mess you call a mind.

mgshamster: Julie Cochrane: mgshamster: namatad: the horrific part of this is that the one "proven" method of treating PTSD is by reliving the memory in therapy and safely processing the event.

It's also been proven that therapy sessions can implant false memories.

/Or rather, that false memories can be implanted, and there have been several court cases where therapists implanted false memories.

Getting a false memory from therapy via "recovered memories" and hypnosis is a lot more complicated than going to a therapist for treatment for PTSD, talking about your traumatic experiences, and processing your feelings about the trauma and how it has affected you.

You're making it sound like just walking in the door of a therapist's office for treatment makes everything ever after that you "think" you remember suspect.

It doesn't work that way.

Are you sure about that? Link (new window)

There's a reason eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.

Memories are not retained. We don't "store" our memories and retrieve them later. We recreate our memories every time we try to remember something.

I can alter a memory of an event simply by using "the" instead of "a" in a question. If someone witnesses an accident, I can create a false memory by asking, "Did you see the broken headlight?" instead of "Did you see a broken headlight?" The second question forces the eyewitness to recall the memory of whether or not the headlight was broken; the first question tells the eyewitness that there absolutely was a broken headlight, and I'm asking if they saw it. A surprising amount of people will say yes, even if there was no broken headlight.

There is a ton of research in this area, and it all points to how unreliable our own memories are.

Here's some more links:
Creating False Memories (new window)
Therepist accused of implanting satanic memories (new window, video auto-starts)

Not all of it is intentional or malicious like that second link. For example, if I were to show you a ...

Yes, I'm familiar with the weaknesses of eyewitness testimony and the frailties of human memory in general, but a therapist is not a magic wand that farks up human memory into false memories of traumas that didn't happen at the whisper of a breath of someone who was perfectly fine walking into his/her office.

I mean absent some fairly specific kinds of treatments that put the patient in an especially suggestible state.

Absent those, talking to a therapist is no more likely to fark with your memories than talking to a reporter, your best friend, or your next door neighbor.

(As defense attorneys/defendants might want to imply)

StranahansBarracuda: I just ignored my first Farker. Never thought it would happen. Way to go Jojo!

Meh, frankly I'm going through this thread putting on ignore all the overwrought drama queens who are unable to discern the difference between 'bad things happen to stupid people who put themselves in bad situations' and 'rape GOOOOD'.

Since I've noticed most of them AW-ing and me-me-me-ing it up in other threads nothing of value was lost.

thelordofcheese: a stupid(14 year old) cumdumpster

Why don't you go read your post to your Mom,or girlfriend,or daughter, I'll bet they beam with pride.

boobsrgood: Three guys handcuff, leash, and gang rape a 14 year-old girl, and out come the Fark apologists to blame the girl by the score. Trolling and biting humor aside, a lot of you people are total pieces of shiate, and I take solace in the knowledge that you are trapped inside that squirming mess you call a mind.

She could easily have pulled this story off the authoritarian section of nifty.org. You're not an apologist for saying "gee, where's the proof?" and that this shiat wouldn't even hold up in a grand jury, let alone a criminal trial

The sad thing is that the most some people got from this is a curiosity about 'penguin head' and how to best use it in real life. Drugs and alcohol can make even good people do bad things. Best friend's younger brother got in trouble for statutory raping a chick after they smoked lots of weed. I don't know the details. I stayed silent after he told me. I followed the Thumper logic of "If ya can't say nuthin' nice, don't say nuthin' at all". I wish I would've said something comforting now since he really is a good kid just a bit of a farkup to be honest. Doesn't really show much intelligence with drugs and alcohol either. I'm pretty sure he was raped at a party after smoking and drinking whiskey. He was too tired to fight it off. Now, if this shiat happened to me I'd never smoke or drink anything again, or at the very least I'd never do it around other people.

Reading that + all you farkettes (and the occasional farker) talking about your own experiences is...wow. I don't really know what to say.

I've always been absolutely terrified of being raped. Haven't and hopefully never will. I've been felt up twice (once by a stranger in an extremely dense crowd, once by a doctor in his office) and those were such invasive experiences (especially the doctor -- violation of trust, much?) that I can't imagine how traumatizing it must be to be actually raped. To hear that so many well-adjusted people move past their experiences is just...just...I can't find a word for it, but I admire you all.

The doctor one pisses me off the most because he was supposed to be trustworthy. I was a scared, hurt teenager and he was in a position of power. My mind fogged up so much that all I could manage was, "my mother is waiting outside. I have to go." His response was, "You have to be brave. You have to listen to your doctor. Do you want me to go out there and tell your mother that you refused treatment because you weren't brave?" In retrospect, I wish I had run out of the office, but he was gripping my broken arm pretty hard. He's dead now, and the medical centre in my hometown is named after him. Asshole. I later found out that he once cornered my mother (a medical services professional) in a room and wouldn't let her leave until she had hugged him for long enough, and threatened her if she told anyone. Also, when a friend was 8, he picked her up by her thumbs and wouldn't let her down until she gave him a kiss. What a farking asshole. I'm glad he's dead.

/sorry, haven't really talked about this before. Feels good to get it out.
//so many years asking myself why I didn't run away...

ParagonComplex: The sad thing is that the most some people got from this is a curiosity about 'penguin head' and how to best use it in real life. Drugs and alcohol can make even good people do bad things. Best friend's younger brother got in trouble for statutory raping a chick after they smoked lots of weed. I don't know the details. I stayed silent after he told me. I followed the Thumper logic of "If ya can't say nuthin' nice, don't say nuthin' at all". I wish I would've said something comforting now since he really is a good kid just a bit of a farkup to be honest. Doesn't really show much intelligence with drugs and alcohol either. I'm pretty sure he was raped at a party after smoking and drinking whiskey. He was too tired to fight it off. Now, if this shiat happened to me I'd never smoke or drink anything again, or at the very least I'd never do it around other people.

A friend of mine who is a school counselor and I discussed the fuzzy issue of alcohol, morning after regrets, and rape, and I agree that drugs and alcohol dinimish everyone's capacity and when farking strangers, you should fark sober to avoid crossed wires. Also, people should only get utterly trashed if they have utter trust in everyone present.

But when discussing rapists (not the act, but the perpetrators) there is a difference between "D***", the stupid intoxicated kid who got carried away, and "M****" the predator who set the entire thing up and was acting abusively towards the girl. 85% of rapists in prison are repeat offenders, averaging six rapes apiece. D*** was a rapist the moment she said "No" (twice!) and he kept going. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

But M**** is the real predatory rapist who probably did it several more times until he got caught. He is the one who was the most dangerous.

Nihilist's Guide to Reticent Entropy: I'm not giving an opinion on the story as it was told.

However, this is all from her writing. It's her account. We don't even know if this guy really exists, or if he's a character she made up to get more hits on her story. I'm not calling her a liar. I'm saying we just don't know because there's no real evidence that the entire article is based in truth. All we have is a tiny graphic of a male being contacted by her in which she provides her email address, and then her transcript of the conversation they allegedly had.

At no point is there anything to prove that he said what she says he said. At no point is there anything to prove he even exists.

This isn't about rape or not-rape. This is about truth or not-truth. ...

For me, it's about people in this thread that accept what she's saying as true, that she said "No" to sexual behavior, then a male proceeded to have his way with her, and farkers saying that wasn't rape. I seriously wonder what the dictionary says:

1.The crime, committed by a man, of forcing another person to have sexual intercourse with him, esp. by the threat or use of violence.

boobsrgood: Three guys handcuff, leash, and gang rape a 14 year-old girl

Nobody outside this thread, as far as I can see, is claiming that both handcuffs and leash were involved. You're cherrypicking two contradictory accounts, both provided by the author (one her recollection of events 15 years prior, the other her recollection and rough transcript of a phone conversation made after the fact)

PsiChi: 1.The crime, committed by a man, of forcing another person to have sexual intercourse with him, esp. by the threat or use of violence.

Get a new dictionary. Women can rape men, too.

MENSTRUATION: Reading that + all you farkettes (and the occasional farker) talking about your own experiences is...wow. I don't really know what to say.

I've always been absolutely terrified of being raped. Haven't and hopefully never will. I've been felt up twice (once by a stranger in an extremely dense crowd, once by a doctor in his office) and those were such invasive experiences (especially the doctor -- violation of trust, much?) that I can't imagine how traumatizing it must be to be actually raped. To hear that so many well-adjusted people move past their experiences is just...just...I can't find a word for it, but I admire you all.

The doctor one pisses me off the most because he was supposed to be trustworthy. I was a scared, hurt teenager and he was in a position of power. My mind fogged up so much that all I could manage was, "my mother is waiting outside. I have to go." His response was, "You have to be brave. You have to listen to your doctor. Do you want me to go out there and tell your mother that you refused treatment because you weren't brave?" In retrospect, I wish I had run out of the office, but he was gripping my broken arm pretty hard. He's dead now, and the medical centre in my hometown is named after him. Asshole. I later found out that he once cornered my mother (a medical services professional) in a room and wouldn't let her leave until she had hugged him for long enough, and threatened her if she told anyone. Also, when a friend was 8, he picked her up by her thumbs and wouldn't let her down until she gave him a kiss. What a farking asshole. I'm glad he's dead.

/sorry, haven't really talked about this before. Feels good to get it out.
//so many years asking myself why I didn't run away...

You froze. That is a very common reaction and not one to be ashamed of. Sexual assault is a shocking, it is so intimate and such a voilation of the human norms you rely on, your brain just can't process it while it is happening. Not to mention it is scary. That's why the "she didn't fight back, so she must have consented arguement is utter b.s.. It is very common for people to freeze up with the surreal unreality and terror of what is happening to them.

I am sorry you went through that. No one should go through that and you have nothing to berate yourself for. He was a bastard and both times your essential trust in basic human civility was violated.

Julie Cochrane: Yes, I'm familiar with the weaknesses of eyewitness testimony and the frailties of human memory in general, but a therapist is not a magic wand that farks up human memory into false memories of traumas that didn't happen at the whisper of a breath of someone who was perfectly fine walking into his/her office.

I mean absent some fairly specific kinds of treatments that put the patient in an especially suggestible state.

Absent those, talking to a therapist is no more likely to fark with your memories than talking to a reporter, your best friend, or your next door neighbor.

(As defense attorneys/defendants might want to imply)

Implantation of false memories is more like to happen when you're talking to an authority figure, such as a therapist (or a cop or doctor or one of your parents). But it can still happen when you are talking to just a normal person, such as a friend or a neighbor. It's amazing how changing a single word (such a "the" versus "a") can alter the perception of what was witnessed at a scene.

If a cop can alter a witnesses memory by interviewing the witness just once, why is it suddenly very unlikely that a therapist could do the same with a single session? Even the previous links I gave you showed false memories implanted in 20-30% of subjects with just a single session, and the subjects recalled the memories as if they were real when interviewed two weeks later.

The reason we want to interview witnesses before they have a chance to talk to each other is because they can alter each others memories of what happened at an event. That's an example of memory alteration without talking to authority figures.

I understand what you're saying; that therapy does not necessarily equate memory alteration/implantation. I agree. But my point is that it's much easier to obtain false memories than most people realize. Our memories are not as reliable as most people believe. And I believe that it's easier to obtain a false memory from an authority figure, such as a therapist or an officer, than it is from a random person.

/This is why evidence is so important.

namatad: mgshamster: namatad: the horrific part of this is that the one "proven" method of treating PTSD is by reliving the memory in therapy and safely processing the event.

It's also been proven that therapy sessions can implant false memories.

/Or rather, that false memories can be implanted, and there have been several court cases where therapists implanted false memories.

LOL
it has also been proven that you can not proven that anything is real nor exists.
every proof requires axioms
we can no longer accept photographic evidence, nor video evidence, they can all be trivially faked by experts.
eye witness testimony was been shown to be completely worthless and worse, lineups create new memories which replace the real versions which lead to false IDS ...
completely unintentionally


so there is no evidence

OR
I can take a body of evidence: memories, emails, notes, pictures, stories, things from multiple sources and I can apply different weightings based on truthiness. from there I can determine truth or false.

should you "believe me"? who cares ... I am relating a tale of someones hell. do I have any doubt whatsoever that this hell was/is real? none.

but to assume that no one is trustworthy? lol
do some people make shiat up? of course
and report false rape? fark yes
or worse, regret rape ...

does that make other rape unreal? no ....

so strange ...

Which is why a jury of 12 determines what reasonable doubt is, rather than a jury of one

AndreMA: boobsrgood: Three guys handcuff, leash, and gang rape a 14 year-old girl

Nobody outside this thread, as far as I can see, is claiming that both handcuffs and leash

D: I don't remember handcuffs. I remember a collar and a leash.
Me: [crying] Oh my god.
D: For any part that I played in this, I am so farking sorry.
Me: I remember handcuffs.

My charity work helping douchebags learn to read is over for the day.

boobsrgood: AndreMA: boobsrgood: Three guys handcuff, leash, and gang rape a 14 year-old girl

Nobody outside this thread, as far as I can see, is claiming that both handcuffs and leash

D: I don't remember handcuffs. I remember a collar and a leash.
Me: [crying] Oh my god.
D: For any part that I played in this, I am so farking sorry.
Me: I remember handcuffs.

My charity work helping douchebags learn to read is over for the day.

Me: And I have these memories, but a lot of it is hazy and there are pieces that are missing and some new pieces have come back to me since I got sober.
Me: I just want to know if all this really happened. Cause sometime s it feels like I'm going crazy.
Me: Yes! It was a warehouse? That's real?
Me: I can't believe we were really in a warehouse...that was one of the things that I could never explain. Because I pictured a warehouse but I thought, "Why would we have been in a warehouse?"

etc

She doesn't have good memories of it. She doesn't trust what she does remember. She establishes this herself. Her surprise over the warehouse being real leads to the fact that any recollection she does have may not be reliable.