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(Some Guy)   Woman receives Facebook friend request from the man who raped her when she was 14 years old. She gets the hero tag for how she handled it   ( moxiebird.com) divider line
    More: Hero, rape victims, Facebook, electronic publishing, friend request  
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66167 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Feb 2012 at 10:49 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-05 11:03:47 PM  

boobsrgood: So, someone taught you that it's ok to rape a person if they are really high, can't feel it, or won't remember it? Let me guess, it was an older relative that taught you this, and you are a heavy sleeper.


NO, I was taught that you take responsibility for your actions and don't blame other people.

If you get shiatfaced, do stupid dangerous shiat and get hurt as a result, you bear the brunt of responsibility. The world is not a safe place, and if you let your defenses down around dangerous people, bad shiat happens. You lay down with dogs, you get fleas. Street culture doesn't play by the same rules as middle class suburbia, and you ignore the local culture at your own peril.

If you sell your ass to a drug dealer, you don't get to play the rape card to make yourself feel better about being a whore. It disrespects women who were REALLY raped.

There were plenty of crimes committed here, but IMHO forcible rape isn't one of them. Woman in the story has a serious credibility problem.
 
2012-02-05 11:09:46 PM  

chuggernaught: KiplingKat872: Honest Bender: LadyHawke: AmorousRedDragon: Abuse of alcohol and drugs made it difficult for her to distinctly and positively confirm what she recalled.

Maybe the whole idea of getting trashed with 3 older males alone in some warehouse wasn't the best choice.

Yes, but that doesn't mean she deserved to be raped.

No it doesn't. But it might mean it wasn't rape. Regret != rape. TFA makes it sound like the guy didn't really know it was rape. Just a trashed girl with emotional problems.

That said, real rape is a terrible thing. Men, I know it's difficult, but try and not switch your brain off entirely when you get hard. Ladies, try not to put yourself in these kinds of situations.

The exact "blame the victim" mentality that contributes to this crap happening.

How was this incident not "real rape?" She said "No. Stop." A couple times.

Thanks a lot farkwit, welcome to my ignore list of rape-apologists.

I think we all need to slow our roll here before anyone gets labled as anything. Like many others I had a certain idea in mind upon reading the headline. Specifically, young woman is forcibly raped, left broken and bleeding. However, that's not what the article showed. What we got was a piecemeal conversation reported by a third party of an event that took place over a decade ago. Both parties admitted to drugs and alcohol use. Currently, and without any further evidence I find both parties guilty of making horrible choices.

We all probably have a stereotyped idea of what constitutes rape. It's obvious that it's not always a guy or guys jumping out of a shadowy alley and dragging a woman down to have their way with her. There are some tough grey areas. The people in the article sorted out that she may have said no at some point, perhaps several times. A friend of mine in college had a situation with a young woman. They had both been drinking. She went to bed with him, he put a condom on, and proceeded. After insertion she told him to stop because it hurt. He stopped, took the condom off, and they lay in bed together. They talked and she was ok with giving it another go. He put on another condom and started up again. She told him to stop a second time, she was feeling uncomfortable with the pain, so he did, and removed the condom. Again, they lay in bed together, and she told him to try again. At this point he was frustrated and out of condoms. He told her no and went to sleep. The whole situation is made more awkward (from my point of view) by the fact that she told me of the encounter before my friend. He was actually quite embarassed.

Based on some of the posts above, my friend raped the woman becuase she had said no. If she had formerly accused him of rape, she could honestly testify that she said no more than once. His only defense would have been "She wanted to", which sounds terrible when you are the defendent.

My point is this: real life encounters are rarely what we see in movies or read about in books. The story in the article has the potential to be rape. More details would have to be gleaned before we could ever know the true details.

/hope you don't put me on the ignore list with a horrible tag, not trying to white knight anyone. Just feel that everyone is jumping to conclusions based on hear-say and conjecture.


A 14 year old girl is sexually exploited by three older boys while chemically incapacitated and physically restrained. One of the boys confirming her story including the fact that she asked him to stop, twice, and he did not...

And that's not rape to you?

I suppose because I was in my boyfriends apartment of my own freewill, it was my fault and he really didn't rape me when he shoved me to the floor and sodomized me.

Your friend did not rape his date because she asked him to continue. She was willing to have sex, she was just experiencing physical discomfort.

That was a shiatty analogy to try to make to a drugged up, tied up, 14 year old girl being gang banged and asking them to stop, period.

Seems like you do have a narrow definition of stranger violent assault rape as the only "real rape."

If what she wrote is true, there is no way it was not rape.

I am so farking sick of the knee jerk, "biatches be lyin" reaction to every single rape story that comes across Fark. This woman confronted what was clearly a traumatic event, taking resonsibility for her choices while having an honest and equitable discussion with one of her rapists in a mature manner to bring herself closure. She did not even print his name, because she wasn't trying revenge herself on anyone. She just wanted closure.

And first thing so many Farkers want to do is accuse her of lying and not really being raped. That's disgusting, and no I don't want to listen to anyone who automatically makes the assumption that women who say they have been raped are liars who brought it on themselves.
 
2012-02-05 11:14:19 PM  

retrograde: Here is my CSB:

I'm male. When I was in college I shared a house with some guys and we would have frequent parties. One time at one of these parties a girl, an acquaintance, came into my room and shut the door. She was one of those girls with a gorgeous face but carrying about an extra 40 pounds or so. We talked for awhile and then she leaned over and kissed me and put her hand between my legs. I had a girlfriend at the time so I pulled away. She then proceeded to undress and tell me that unless I had sex with her that she would scream and everyone would hear. So, of course, I did. I was pissed that she had threatened me so I was less than gentle with her but this just seem to excite her even more. Afterwards she got dressed, kissed me on the forehead and left. I saw her many times after this and she never once let on that anything had ever happened between us.

So, I suppose I am a rape victim.


Extra 40 pounds? I bet she gave great head.

Ok, earlier this afternoon (2ish?) I said this was an entertaining thread. It's 11:10p now and I am in the middle of the 4pm postings. Not so entertaining anymore.

Cue the Powers Booth 'Well, bye' jpg.
 
2012-02-05 11:16:33 PM  

KiplingKat872: And first thing so many Farkers want to do is accuse her of lying and not really being raped. That's disgusting, and no I don't want to listen to anyone who automatically makes the assumption that women who say they have been raped are liars who brought it on themselves.


Because "more details are needed" constitutes "biatches be lyin".
 
2012-02-05 11:18:54 PM  

John Buck 41: Cue the Powers Booth 'Well, bye' jpg


shiat, that's Powers Boothe, I never figured that one out. Thanks.
 
2012-02-05 11:23:46 PM  
military armrest: nobody is saying that self-defense course are wrong.

Exactly, nobody seems to say that. And that's my point. It looks illogical for people to exempt self-defense courses from the charge of "victim blaming" which is hollered against anyone else who suggests that it is possible for a woman to do something to improve her own safety. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

That's why the charge of "victim blaming" looks dodgy. It's strictly used to prevent discussions of rape from straying outside of feminist-approved limits.

The problem is that while it can reduce - it does not eliminate the threat of rape.

Eliminate the threat of rape? By the same standard, every single law enforcement and "rape prevention" measure ever taken in the history of humanity has suffered from the exact same problem. Take Back the Night Rallies don't eliminate the threat of rape, either. But when someone says "we need to teach men that rape is wrong! And we need to teach men that consent is right!"? Oh, golly, that's a winning idea? Nonsense.
 
2012-02-05 11:28:55 PM  
Bottom line: she went out looking for trouble, and found it in spades. The fact that she found more trouble than she was looking for doesn't grant her absolution for her bad judgement.

Was she raped? Maybe, maybe not. We only have her side of the story (HEARSAY)

Did she trade sex for drugs? Given the context, it seems highly likely.

Does she bear responsibility for putting herself in that situation? Without question.
 
2012-02-05 11:30:54 PM  

mgshamster: ExperianScaresCthulhu: PsiChi: Teen Wolf Blitzer: Bathia_Mapes: Guidette Frankentits: DreamSnipers: It seems like so many people are ignoring her age. She was 14! If she says "OMG yes, I want to do all of you!" It is rape. If she says 'No!" it is even worse. She said no.

Where are her 'attackers' ages in TFA?

Why is that relevant? She said NO.

Once more...NO MEANS NO!!!

In my experience, "no" usually means, "yes, just wait five minutes."

Straight from orange to ignore.


Ignoring every other story the past 800 posts with anecdotes illustrating just what TWB posted? Alrighty, then.

PsiChi has a history of ignoring evidence that doesn't match up with her beliefs. Why would this time be any different?


Dude.. she's a professional PSYCHIC, ignoring evidence is the basis of her livelihood!
 
2012-02-05 11:34:10 PM  
If you believe what she said, then they definitely committed rape. Everyone who says "she made a bad choice" seems to conveniently forget the 3 guys that got drunk/stoned and decided to force themselves on her. That's some sick shiat, and it's being completely glossed over by some.

Now, if you choose not to believe her wishy-washy unverified transcript, OK, I can see that. But if you choose to believe her, don't excuse horrible behavior by the guys in this story. If you can excuse yourself getting drunk/stoned and gangbanging a 14-yr-old, that's pretty sick no matter what age you are.
 
2012-02-05 11:39:57 PM  

chuggernaught: We all probably have a stereotyped idea of what constitutes rape. It's obvious that it's not always a guy or guys jumping out of a shadowy alley and dragging a woman down to have their way with her. There are some tough grey areas. The people in the article sorted out that she may have said no at some point, perhaps several times. A friend of mine in college had a situation with a young woman. They had both been drinking. She went to bed with him, he put a condom on, and proceeded. After insertion she told him to stop because it hurt. He stopped, took the condom off, and they lay in bed together. They talked and she was ok with giving it another go. He put on another condom and started up again. She told him to stop a second time, she was feeling uncomfortable with the pain, so he did, and removed the condom. Again, they lay in bed together, and she told him to try again. At this point he was frustrated and out of condoms. He told her no and went to sleep. The whole situation is made more awkward (from my point of view) by the fact that she told me of the encounter before my friend. He was actually quite embarassed.

Based on some of the posts above, my friend raped the woman becuase she had said no. If she had formerly accused him of rape, she could honestly testify that she said no more than once. His only defense would have been "She wanted to", which sounds terrible when you are the defendent.


There's a difference between "Stop." Stops. Completely. pause, stuff, pause, "Okay, let's try again." pause. "Nah, stop." Stops completely. pause stuff pause, "Okay, let's try again" "Nah, I don't wanna try again, I'm going to sleep." I don't see that your friend did anything at all wrong. He did not at any time ignore no. Each time he entered her, he'd just gotten an actual "yes."

Just about all adults who have been sexually active for a couple of decades are familiar with at least one or two times when consensual sex had its starts and stops because the specific encounter was more farce than passion.

This is completely different from any penetration in which "No" is ignored.

Ignoring no is a douchey action. Ignoring no is a douchey action pretty much no matter what actions you do before or after it if you had a no, and knew it, when you ignored it.

I don't think all* rapes should be prosecuted--I think there are gray cases where the guy is more of a stupid douche than a rabid danger to society. I suppose it's a lucky thing that a lot of the guys involved are jerks as opposed to ax-wielding monsters, given how many rapes go unreported and how many of those guys that leaves out there.

But I don't think your friend did anything wrong at all. After every no, before penetrating, he had an actual yes. It's all about consent. And there's an obvious reason her answer was changing---sex between the two of them was having some mechanical problems that time. Makes perfect sense.

With consent, you're golden. :-)

*That's a largely theoretical position on my part. Rape is such a difficult crime to prove that generally speaking, if you can prove it to a jury, you should. And I mean without prosecutorial misconduct or anything like using evidence you know is bad or faked or ignoring exculpatory evidence or other such dirty tricks.
 
2012-02-05 11:41:43 PM  

LamOtter: Everyone who says "she made a bad choice" seems to conveniently forget the 3 guys that got drunk/stoned and decided to force themselves on her.


The "bad choice" she made was going there specifically to exchange sexual favors for drugs. That's the part that is being completely glossed over.

The "She said no but then it became OK" part came when in when Mr. White Knight from the article had her alone afterward and who knows what might have actually happened. But the forced blowjobs, leashes, degrading talk, etc, was most likely entirely consensual, from the limited facts we are given. She wanted drugs, and went to a sociopath to get them.
 
2012-02-05 11:42:26 PM  

bhcompy: KiplingKat872: And first thing so many Farkers want to do is accuse her of lying and not really being raped. That's disgusting, and no I don't want to listen to anyone who automatically makes the assumption that women who say they have been raped are liars who brought it on themselves.

Because "more details are needed" constitutes "biatches be lyin".


After reading the article I really don't know how much more detail you need. Though it seems some farkers are willing to fill details like "she was selling herself for drugs" which is not in the article.

Are alcohol and drugs a bad udea at 14? Yes. Should she have been in that warehouse? No.

Does she bear any responisibilty for the actions of the three boys who sexually expoilted and raped her? NO!

Did she deserve to be raped for her bad decisions? NO.

It's like another farker said, if you are sitting in a bar drunk, and another drunk smashes a glass over your head, you are not responsible for their assault. They are the ones that get arrested, not you.
 
2012-02-05 11:48:36 PM  

Julie Cochrane: But I don't think your friend did anything wrong at all. After every no, before penetrating, he had an actual yes. It's all about consent. And there's an obvious reason her answer was changing---sex between the two of them was having some mechanical problems that time. Makes perfect sense.

With consent, you're golden. :-)



So now do you see the complications of "No Means NO means NO means NO" when someone is drunk and high, has no recollection, has a conversation 10 years later about what happened, and condenses the facts down to a 30 second blurb in the form of an online conversation? How do we know that your scenario is anything different from the article. She said no... then yes... then no.. then yes... "Then it was Ok?".. What are we supposed to gather from the article?

And furthermore, as I seem to keep having to point out, the only instance where we know she said 'no' or 'stop' was alone with Mr Facebook guy. Performing fellatio on a group of guys while collared and degraded seems to have been part of the whole plan: going to a warehouse to exchange sexual favors for drugs.

Would those guys be "Golden" if they had consent?
 
2012-02-05 11:50:32 PM  

ChuDogg: LamOtter: Everyone who says "she made a bad choice" seems to conveniently forget the 3 guys that got drunk/stoned and decided to force themselves on her.

The "bad choice" she made was going there specifically to exchange sexual favors for drugs. That's the part that is being completely glossed over.

The "She said no but then it became OK" part came when in when Mr. White Knight from the article had her alone afterward and who knows what might have actually happened. But the forced blowjobs, leashes, degrading talk, etc, was most likely entirely consensual, from the limited facts we are given. She wanted drugs, and went to a sociopath to get them.


Where does she claim to be exchanging sex for drugs?
 
2012-02-05 11:52:23 PM  

Julie Cochrane: She said no. That's real rape.
The second time was the time I did everything right. I was in a place and situation that should have been completely safe with a partner who should have been completely safe and I had said in advance, "You absolutely cannot put that appendage in that orifice that way. (dry)" He did it anyway---penetrated. It hurt like bloody hell. He pulled out when I cried out to stop. But I had told him "no" in no uncertain terms and he did it anyway. He shouldn't have been there in the first place.
...


I'm really sorry that you had to go through this. In this situation, do you you want him to be punished? And if the sentence was completely up to you, what would it be?
 
2012-02-05 11:52:24 PM  

KiplingKat872: It's like another farker said, if you are sitting in a bar drunk, and another drunk smashes a glass over your head, you are not responsible for their assault. They are the ones that get arrested, not you.


Conversely, if you and an accomplice try to rob a third party, and he shoots your buddy dead, YOU are the one who's facing a felony murder rap. If YOUR CRIMINAL ACTIVITY causes someone to get hurt (including yourself), YOU are responsible.

ChuDogg: The "bad choice" she made was going there specifically to exchange sexual favors for drugs. That's the part that is being completely glossed over.



Bears repeating.

Yes, a prostitute can be raped by a paying customer. That doesn't grant her absolution for prostituting herself in the first place, or (more importantly) help her credibility in the slightest.
 
2012-02-05 11:53:11 PM  

KiplingKat872: Though it seems some farkers are willing to fill details like "she was selling herself for drugs" which is not in the article.


Yes it is. According to her own narrative the FB guy states she was brought over specifically to give them head. Read it again.

Oh, wait, I just saw who I was responding to. You ignore all factual refutations directed to your attention.
 
2012-02-05 11:59:12 PM  

KiplingKat872: bhcompy: KiplingKat872: And first thing so many Farkers want to do is accuse her of lying and not really being raped. That's disgusting, and no I don't want to listen to anyone who automatically makes the assumption that women who say they have been raped are liars who brought it on themselves.

Because "more details are needed" constitutes "biatches be lyin".

After reading the article I really don't know how much more detail you need. Though it seems some farkers are willing to fill details like "she was selling herself for drugs" which is not in the article.

Are alcohol and drugs a bad udea at 14? Yes. Should she have been in that warehouse? No.

Does she bear any responisibilty for the actions of the three boys who sexually expoilted and raped her? NO!

Did she deserve to be raped for her bad decisions? NO.

It's like another farker said, if you are sitting in a bar drunk, and another drunk smashes a glass over your head, you are not responsible for their assault. They are the ones that get arrested, not you.


How about this: A shred of non-circumstantial evidence. A reliable witness. Testimony from someone that doesn't say "I was under the impression it was consensual"(if you assume that the conversation actually happened). etc

Being accused of rape is a death sentence to your future in America. The fact that she's airing out this dirty laundry for all to read could easily read to her being sued for defamation if the person is doxed. It's reckless. If she truly had something compelling, she should go to the cops. Many states do not have statutes of limitations on rape, particularly when they involve a minor.
 
2012-02-06 12:02:16 AM  

Silly Jesus: Talk about cherry picking what you want to hear...sheesh.


so you are either a troll or you have never talked to someone who has been raped or abused. this shiat is crazy real. this isnt "pretend". this isnt something which is socialized.

certainly there is DAMAGE done after the trauma, called secondary wounding.
this is when people who have no clue say things like "well if you hadnt dressed that way" or "maybe you could have done something different" or "you'll get over it" or "it isnt that bad"

this is real shiat
not something which is created by society.
this isnt someone making a bigger deal out of a small thing.
maybe you should pick a book or two on PTSD or talk print out what you wrote and bring it to a shrink. I am certain that they would have a field day with trying to understand why you would even suggest that people are being socialized into trauma. LOLOLOL

sigh

on the note of this thread being civil ...
either it if football
or awesome usage of the ignore filters
or both
 
2012-02-06 12:03:31 AM  

shastacola: Where does she claim to be exchanging sex for drugs?


"C*** and M*** were supposed to smoke everybody out... Somebody brought you over and told me you were going to give me head. "

She was invited to the drug party to give sexual favors. As was pointed out elsewhere, she was rather overweight during these years, and she admitting she was craving sexual attention and addicted to drugs. It wasn't that she put herself in a dangerous situation, she likely consented to it.

Perhaps she said "no" and resisted during the oral sex session with the two drug dealers? Very possible, however, that's not mentioned in the article. And if we're not going to "read between the lines" on this tiny blurb, then we'd have to accept that she consented to it since we don't have any mention of her resisting the degradations of these two men.
 
2012-02-06 12:04:51 AM  

ChuDogg: Yes it is. According to her own narrative the FB guy states she was brought over specifically to give them head. Read it again.


No, she does not say that, at all. Nor does the FB guy, I don't know where you're getting that from.
 
2012-02-06 12:06:07 AM  

ChuDogg: Would those guys be "Golden" if they had consent?


No. Since most states have an age of consent of 16 or greater, she wasn't old enough to give legal consent.
 
2012-02-06 12:06:45 AM  

shastacola: ChuDogg: Yes it is. According to her own narrative the FB guy states she was brought over specifically to give them head. Read it again.

No, she does not say that, at all. Nor does the FB guy, I don't know where you're getting that from.


I was in the far corner from the door. Somebody told me that you wanted to come over and hang out. It was me and you and M*** and C***, J***. and S***. I was in the far corner from the door. I associate the song "Stupid Girl" by Garbage with the scene, so maybe it was playing. Somebody brought you over and told me you were going to give me head. I thought you were hitting on me. I had no idea there was anything non-consensual going on. After you left, they all gave me shiat about it. Said I was hogging all the head.
 
2012-02-06 12:07:29 AM  

Bathia_Mapes: ChuDogg: Would those guys be "Golden" if they had consent?

No. Since most states have an age of consent of 16 or greater, she wasn't old enough to give legal consent.


Depends on their age and the states romeo and juliet laws
 
2012-02-06 12:07:36 AM  

Bathia_Mapes: No. Since most states have an age of consent of 16 or greater, she wasn't old enough to give legal consent.


Where are you finding out the ages of these boys? Everything in the article suggests they were peers.

Please advise.
 
2012-02-06 12:08:10 AM  

shastacola: Where does she claim to be exchanging sex for drugs?


You ever read between the lines?

She's playing the rape card so she can absolve herself of the shame and responsibility of sucking cock for drugs. The line of reasoning goes something like this:

Only whores suck cock for drugs, and I am not a whore. Therefore, when I followed a bunch of guys I barely knew to a warehouse, took their drugs, and then sucked their cocks, it must have been rape. Because I'm not some skanky crack whore who'd suck 3 guys off just for a fix.
 
2012-02-06 12:09:20 AM  

clyph: Yes, a prostitute can be raped by a paying customer. That doesn't grant her absolution for prostituting herself in the first place, or (more importantly) help her credibility in the slightest.


what the hell are you talking about?

either a person was raped, or they were not raped.
drunk, whore, wanted drugs, stupid,
none of these things are relevant to whether the rape happened or not.
(the truth of whether the rape happened is for a court of law and not relevant)

facts on the ground
this woman said that she said no. therefore it was rape.
YES, of course, she could be lying. and then she is committing false testimony

everything is immaterial

given the NATURE of everyone else involved and the fact that one of the rapists admitted that it was rape, well then we logically should think that she is telling the truth.

unless the whole thing is fiction
in which case, in the fictional example, the rape victim was raped ....
so RAPE
 
2012-02-06 12:09:31 AM  
Whether it was rape or not, that day in the warehouse is obviously an emotional low point for this poor woman that still causes trauma. These guys sound like low-lifes regardless. It's good she kicked the drugs. She sounds like she's in a better place now, which is the bright spot in this whole clusterfark.

/dated a girl in college who had been raped in the past
//still admire the courage to move on in a healthy way after such horrible things happen to you
 
2012-02-06 12:09:53 AM  

KiplingKat872: bhcompy: KiplingKat872: And first thing so many Farkers want to do is accuse her of lying and not really being raped. That's disgusting, and no I don't want to listen to anyone who automatically makes the assumption that women who say they have been raped are liars who brought it on themselves.

Because "more details are needed" constitutes "biatches be lyin".

After reading the article I really don't know how much more detail you need. Though it seems some farkers are willing to fill details like "she was selling herself for drugs" which is not in the article.

Are alcohol and drugs a bad udea at 14? Yes. Should she have been in that warehouse? No.

Does she bear any responisibilty for the actions of the three boys who sexually expoilted and raped her? NO!

Did she deserve to be raped for her bad decisions? NO.

It's like another farker said, if you are sitting in a bar drunk, and another drunk smashes a glass over your head, you are not responsible for their assault. They are the ones that get arrested, not you.


I don't think anyone in this thread is saying the girl wanted or deserved what happened to her. What they are saying is that she put herself in a dangerous situation and something bad happened to her.

To blame her for getting raped is horrible. But to deny that her getting drunk in a deserted location with three older men was a very stupid thing to do and put her in greater likelihood of having a crime committed is disingenuous at best and frightfully naive at worst.
 
2012-02-06 12:10:23 AM  
ok
I get trolling
but RAPE trolling? really???
at least it is an easy place to find more tards for the ignore list

sigh
 
2012-02-06 12:11:32 AM  
Well, if nothing else, I think one thing we can ALL agree on is that namatad really needs to learn how to format a paragraph properly.
 
2012-02-06 12:12:51 AM  

ChuDogg: shastacola: Where does she claim to be exchanging sex for drugs?

"C*** and M*** were supposed to smoke everybody out... Somebody brought you over and told me you were going to give me head. "

She was invited to the drug party to give sexual favors. As was pointed out elsewhere, she was rather overweight during these years, and she admitting she was craving sexual attention and addicted to drugs. It wasn't that she put herself in a dangerous situation, she likely consented to it.

Perhaps she said "no" and resisted during the oral sex session with the two drug dealers? Very possible, however, that's not mentioned in the article. And if we're not going to "read between the lines" on this tiny blurb, then we'd have to accept that she consented to it since we don't have any mention of her resisting the degradations of these two men.


Bullshiat. The "someone brought you over here" refers to the guy who led her over to him with the dog leash after she was at the warehouse.There is absolutely nothing in that conversation between the 2 of them that implies it was a"drug party", nor does she "admit she was adicted to drugs when she was 14", the addiction came after the rape. And so the fark what if she was overweight and craving sexual attention, she was 14 , she is no more asking for rape that any of the other boys there who were also partying. I can see teenage boys convincing themselves that what they did was OK, but grown men on Fark claiming the same is downright creepy.
 
2012-02-06 12:15:55 AM  

Voxper: military armrest: nobody is saying that self-defense course are wrong.

Exactly, nobody seems to say that. And that's my point. It looks illogical for people to exempt self-defense courses from the charge of "victim blaming" which is hollered against anyone else who suggests that it is possible for a woman to do something to improve her own safety. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

That's why the charge of "victim blaming" looks dodgy. It's strictly used to prevent discussions of rape from straying outside of feminist-approved limits.

The problem is that while it can reduce - it does not eliminate the threat of rape.

Eliminate the threat of rape? By the same standard, every single law enforcement and "rape prevention" measure ever taken in the history of humanity has suffered from the exact same problem. Take Back the Night Rallies don't eliminate the threat of rape, either. But when someone says "we need to teach men that rape is wrong! And we need to teach men that consent is right!"? Oh, golly, that's a winning idea? Nonsense.


I need to get to bed, so forgive me I won't be able to reply back. To point one I gave the reason why that is...because some people will default to a woman being able to stop all rapes. If she doesn't then she was asking for it or really did want it to happen. That's why - because it can be used as a tool of victim shaming. Is this the only thing that feminist groups give a pass on, no. One example is the campaign to make women aware of the dangers of drugged drinks and the push for women not to accept opened drinks that they did not see made to reduce the risk. I disagree with the "rule" that by not dressing in a certain way, walking along in a bad neighborhood you will not be raped. The truth is that this is more than a victim blaming mentality. It lures women into a false sense of security. A conservatively dressed women walking in a nice neighborhood being escorted by a gentlemen she has known for a while gets raped . She is going having issues understanding how this could have happened when she followed the rules. That is what the point of getting past this myth about dress/location/the company you keep is fool proof way to not get raped. That is what feminist groups are trying to get past, they are not always using the best way of saying it and that does need improving because far to often they get off of topic or go into full on man hating derp which is a disservice to the women they claim to want to help - I don't totally disagree with you for that. But it does need to be address - both sides need to work on there communication about the "rules".

Point 2 - I don't think anyone thinks that teaching men that no means no will stop all rapes. To be honest you still get into problem of rapist who preemptively decide to rape. Nothing the woman says is going to stop it, hopefully she can fight him off. I think the movement is trying get to the date rape caused by influences of drugs/booze. I do agree with you that they really need to expand on the "no means no" to educating women to be very direct about how they feel about the situation. One thing in my class that they did teach was to scream (not say ) No and Stop. But to also scream "stop your raping me", while this will not always stop the guy - when you go to court you will be able to say that you made him aware of how you viewed the intercourse while it was happening. On the same side men need to understand that because she is under the affects of alcohol or drugs does not mean she is 100% free game. If she does make it know that she wants the guy to stop ...mentally decided that what she is saying doesn't matter cause you think she does want it isn't going to cut it. How many men they are going to reach is debatable - hopefully it does change some guys minds that drunk = free to do whatever they want.
 
2012-02-06 12:16:04 AM  

clyph: shastacola: Where does she claim to be exchanging sex for drugs?

You ever read between the lines?

She's playing the rape card so she can absolve herself of the shame and responsibility of sucking cock for drugs. The line of reasoning goes something like this:

Only whores suck cock for drugs, and I am not a whore. Therefore, when I followed a bunch of guys I barely knew to a warehouse, took their drugs, and then sucked their cocks, it must have been rape. Because I'm not some skanky crack whore who'd suck 3 guys off just for a fix.


You sound like you need help. Good luck with that.
 
2012-02-06 12:16:22 AM  

namatad: ok
I get trolling
but RAPE trolling? really???
at least it is an easy place to find more tards for the ignore list

sigh


I don't see anyone rape trolling here, at least not in the last hour or so.

I see two groups having a discussion. Both sides are bringing up reasonable points, and doing so reasonably.

So be honest and call that ignore list or ostrich list, or, the I got nothing list.

Put me on it to, because my script automagically favorited!s anyone who threatens with ignore.

*favorited!*

Ignore is like the dumbest feature of fark. Encouraging idiots who afraid of a little argument to bully others.
 
2012-02-06 12:19:01 AM  

shastacola: Bullshiat. The "someone brought you over here" refers to the guy who led her over to him with the dog leash after she was at the warehouse.There is absolutely nothing in that conversation between the 2 of them that implies it was a"drug party", nor does she "admit she was adicted to drugs when she was 14", the addiction came after the rape. And so the fark what if she was overweight and craving sexual attention, she was 14 , she is no more asking for rape that any of the other boys there who were also partying. I can see teenage boys convincing themselves that what they did was OK, but grown men on Fark claiming the same is downright creepy.


To be honest shastacola you're doing a lot of "reading between the lines" here and I think we should just stick with the facts presented in the tiny 30 second blurb of an article that was based on their conversation.
 
2012-02-06 12:19:09 AM  

bhcompy: KiplingKat872: bhcompy: KiplingKat872: And first thing so many Farkers want to do is accuse her of lying and not really being raped. That's disgusting, and no I don't want to listen to anyone who automatically makes the assumption that women who say they have been raped are liars who brought it on themselves.

Because "more details are needed" constitutes "biatches be lyin".

After reading the article I really don't know how much more detail you need. Though it seems some farkers are willing to fill details like "she was selling herself for drugs" which is not in the article.

Are alcohol and drugs a bad udea at 14? Yes. Should she have been in that warehouse? No.

Does she bear any responisibilty for the actions of the three boys who sexually expoilted and raped her? NO!

Did she deserve to be raped for her bad decisions? NO.

It's like another farker said, if you are sitting in a bar drunk, and another drunk smashes a glass over your head, you are not responsible for their assault. They are the ones that get arrested, not you.

How about this: A shred of non-circumstantial evidence. A reliable witness. Testimony from someone that doesn't say "I was under the impression it was consensual"(if you assume that the conversation actually happened). etc

Being accused of rape is a death sentence to your future in America. The fact that she's airing out this dirty laundry for all to read could easily read to her being sued for defamation if the person is doxed. It's reckless. If she truly had something compelling, she should go to the cops. Many states do not have statutes of limitations on rape, particularly when they involve a minor.


In your rush to prove her a liar, you missed the entire point of the article.

But its not the first time the concepts of forgiveness and closure have gone over people's heads.

She isn't accusing anyone, this isn't about throwing anyone in jail or destroying anyone's career. That's why she didn't name names. This is about showing one of the final steps in recovery.

And it kind of disgusting that even examples of forgiveness are ignored in the rush to blame the victim or make her out to be a liar.
 
2012-02-06 12:22:51 AM  
I've read some of the comments in this thread. The victim blaming in here is enough to turn my stomach. I highly suggest to anyone who has read this to not discuss this topic on Fark. It's not the proper place to have a discussion about it.

/seriously
 
2012-02-06 12:23:47 AM  

KiplingKat872: bhcompy: KiplingKat872: bhcompy: KiplingKat872: And first thing so many Farkers want to do is accuse her of lying and not really being raped. That's disgusting, and no I don't want to listen to anyone who automatically makes the assumption that women who say they have been raped are liars who brought it on themselves.

Because "more details are needed" constitutes "biatches be lyin".

After reading the article I really don't know how much more detail you need. Though it seems some farkers are willing to fill details like "she was selling herself for drugs" which is not in the article.

Are alcohol and drugs a bad udea at 14? Yes. Should she have been in that warehouse? No.

Does she bear any responisibilty for the actions of the three boys who sexually expoilted and raped her? NO!

Did she deserve to be raped for her bad decisions? NO.

It's like another farker said, if you are sitting in a bar drunk, and another drunk smashes a glass over your head, you are not responsible for their assault. They are the ones that get arrested, not you.

How about this: A shred of non-circumstantial evidence. A reliable witness. Testimony from someone that doesn't say "I was under the impression it was consensual"(if you assume that the conversation actually happened). etc

Being accused of rape is a death sentence to your future in America. The fact that she's airing out this dirty laundry for all to read could easily read to her being sued for defamation if the person is doxed. It's reckless. If she truly had something compelling, she should go to the cops. Many states do not have statutes of limitations on rape, particularly when they involve a minor.

In your rush to prove her a liar, you missed the entire point of the article.

But its not the first time the concepts of forgiveness and closure have gone over people's heads.

She isn't accusing anyone, this isn't about throwing anyone in jail or destroying anyone's career. That's why she didn't name names. This is about ...


There is far too much information present for that. FB picture, initials, her own name, etc. This is a published document that qualifies under 1, and possibly 2, of the categories for defamation per se. If she truly wanted to hide that there were better ways to do it
 
2012-02-06 12:26:33 AM  

bhcompy: KiplingKat872: bhcompy: KiplingKat872: bhcompy: KiplingKat872: And first thing so many Farkers want to do is accuse her of lying and not really being raped. That's disgusting, and no I don't want to listen to anyone who automatically makes the assumption that women who say they have been raped are liars who brought it on themselves.

Because "more details are needed" constitutes "biatches be lyin".

After reading the article I really don't know how much more detail you need. Though it seems some farkers are willing to fill details like "she was selling herself for drugs" which is not in the article.

Are alcohol and drugs a bad udea at 14? Yes. Should she have been in that warehouse? No.

Does she bear any responisibilty for the actions of the three boys who sexually expoilted and raped her? NO!

Did she deserve to be raped for her bad decisions? NO.

It's like another farker said, if you are sitting in a bar drunk, and another drunk smashes a glass over your head, you are not responsible for their assault. They are the ones that get arrested, not you.

How about this: A shred of non-circumstantial evidence. A reliable witness. Testimony from someone that doesn't say "I was under the impression it was consensual"(if you assume that the conversation actually happened). etc

Being accused of rape is a death sentence to your future in America. The fact that she's airing out this dirty laundry for all to read could easily read to her being sued for defamation if the person is doxed. It's reckless. If she truly had something compelling, she should go to the cops. Many states do not have statutes of limitations on rape, particularly when they involve a minor.

In your rush to prove her a liar, you missed the entire point of the article.

But its not the first time the concepts of forgiveness and closure have gone over people's heads.

She isn't accusing anyone, this isn't about throwing anyone in jail or destroying anyone's career. That's why she didn't name names. This is about ...

There is far too much information present for that. FB picture, initials, her own name, etc. This is a published document that qualifies under 1, and possibly 2, of the categories for defamation per se. If she truly wanted to hide that there were better ways to do it


I am sorry, but how does publishing her own name make slander against men only identified a single letters?

That's seriously reaching to make her out to be the villain of the piece.
 
2012-02-06 12:30:16 AM  

shastacola: You sound like you need help. Good luck with that.


Which part of my version is inconsistent with the facts as we know them?

She willing went to a warehouse with some guys she barely knew to take drugs. She wound up sucking their cocks after they got her high. Hanlon's Razor says the simplest hypothesis is the most likely, and given my experience, quid pro quo is a FAR more likely scenario than rape. 14 or not she wasn't some blushing innocent. Maybe you haven't met many addicts, but they'll do anything and say anything for that next high.

I just asked my 14 year old stepdaughter daughter what she thought would happen if some guys she barely knew wanted to go off somewhere private and get high together... her exact words: "They'd probably expect me to have sex with them".
 
2012-02-06 12:32:43 AM  

KiplingKat872: That's seriously reaching to make her out to be the villain of the piece.


I clearly said reckless. No where have I said villain.
 
2012-02-06 12:36:07 AM  

clyph: Hanlon's Razor says the simplest hypothesis is the most likely,


Hanlon's razor is "Never attribute to malice, with what can best be explained by stupidity".

Works just as well here though.
 
2012-02-06 12:36:44 AM  

clyph: shastacola: You sound like you need help. Good luck with that.

Which part of my version is inconsistent with the facts as we know them?

She willing went to a warehouse with some guys she barely knew to take drugs. She wound up sucking their cocks after they got her high. Hanlon's Razor says the simplest hypothesis is the most likely, and given my experience, quid pro quo is a FAR more likely scenario than rape. 14 or not she wasn't some blushing innocent. Maybe you haven't met many addicts, but they'll do anything and say anything for that next high.

I just asked my 14 year old stepdaughter daughter what she thought would happen if some guys she barely knew wanted to go off somewhere private and get high together... her exact words: "They'd probably expect me to have sex with them".


Now this is true hearsay. You have nothing that proves that. Nothing in the articles days she went there to do anything but hang out and smoke some weed.

I used to hang out, drink, and smoke with my friends in high school. I never slept with them for it, nor was I raped by them.
 
2012-02-06 12:38:29 AM  

clyph: shastacola: You sound like you need help. Good luck with that.

Which part of my version is inconsistent with the facts as we know them?

She willing went to a warehouse with some guys she barely knew to take drugs. She wound up sucking their cocks after they got her high. Occam's Razor says the simplest hypothesis is the most likely, and given my experience, quid pro quo is a FAR more likely scenario than rape. 14 or not she wasn't some blushing innocent. Maybe you haven't met many addicts, but they'll do anything and say anything for that next high.

I just asked my 14 year old stepdaughter daughter what she thought would happen if some guys she barely knew wanted to go off somewhere private and get high together... her exact words: "They'd probably expect me to have sex with them".


Hanlon's Razor is an eponymous adage that reads:
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor
 
2012-02-06 12:38:30 AM  

Cyrusv10: I've read some of the comments in this thread. The victim blaming in here is enough to turn my stomach. I highly suggest to anyone who has read this to not discuss this topic on Fark. It's not the proper place to have a discussion about it.

/seriously


memedepot.com
 
2012-02-06 12:38:56 AM  

bhcompy: KiplingKat872: That's seriously reaching to make her out to be the villain of the piece.

I clearly said reckless. No where have I said villain.


No, just now trying to accuse her of slander.
 
2012-02-06 12:40:43 AM  

military armrest: Point 2 - I don't think anyone thinks that teaching men that no means no will stop all rapes.


What about teaching women that "no means no" not "maybe yes in a few minutes".

If you even mutter "no", then it's over and you need to call a cab because someone is going to be leaving.
 
2012-02-06 12:54:15 AM  

clyph: I just asked my 14 year old stepdaughter daughter what she thought would happen if some guys she barely knew wanted to go off somewhere private and get high together... her exact words: "They'd probably expect me to have sex with them".


Perhaps we need to break down rape into clearer intent like murder.

First degree: violent assault + rape. Injuries both physical and mental.

Second degree: I willingly put myself in a risky situation through ignorance or intent and may have sent conflicting signals. Sex happened against my intentions; I might have said "no" but can't remember if I said it or meant it. I was humiliated afterwards.

Manslutter: I really said "yes" and jumped his bones, but I had buyer's remorse and didn't want to be hounded by guilt over my decision I regretted after the fact, so I'm claiming "rape" now.

As said many times prior in the thread:

If you leave your nice car unlocked with the keys in the ignition in a bad area of town, you don't "deserve" to be a victim, but you bear responsibility in your actions leading up to and setting the stage for a crime to happen. Saying "no stealing my car means: no" is not a magic phrase that will cover your loss.
 
2012-02-06 12:55:01 AM  

ChuDogg: Bathia_Mapes: No. Since most states have an age of consent of 16 or greater, she wasn't old enough to give legal consent.

Where are you finding out the ages of these boys? Everything in the article suggests they were peers.

Please advise.


Ok so it was conjecture. I didn't think you would be returning after.
 
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