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(Some Guy)   Woman receives Facebook friend request from the man who raped her when she was 14 years old. She gets the hero tag for how she handled it   (moxiebird.com) divider line 1264
    More: Hero, rape victims, Facebook, electronic publishing, friend request  
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66116 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Feb 2012 at 10:49 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-05 07:16:15 PM

bhcompy: boobsrgood: AndreMA: boobsrgood: Three guys handcuff, leash, and gang rape a 14 year-old girl

Nobody outside this thread, as far as I can see, is claiming that both handcuffs and leash

D: I don't remember handcuffs. I remember a collar and a leash.
Me: [crying] Oh my god.
D: For any part that I played in this, I am so farking sorry.
Me: I remember handcuffs.

My charity work helping douchebags learn to read is over for the day.

Me: And I have these memories, but a lot of it is hazy and there are pieces that are missing and some new pieces have come back to me since I got sober.
Me: I just want to know if all this really happened. Cause sometime s it feels like I'm going crazy.
Me: Yes! It was a warehouse? That's real?
Me: I can't believe we were really in a warehouse...that was one of the things that I could never explain. Because I pictured a warehouse but I thought, "Why would we have been in a warehouse?"

etc

She doesn't have good memories of it. She doesn't trust what she does remember. She establishes this herself. Her surprise over the warehouse being real leads to the fact that any recollection she does have may not be reliable.


Execpt for the fact he confirmed the warehouse she remembered but could not explain, as well as the rest of it...
 
2012-02-05 07:16:38 PM

jtfx: I'm male, and fortunately, I'm just not wired that way. What gets me off, is the woman I'm with, getting off.

I've run into the girls that say no, when the mean yes though, and it is very farking annoying. I always stopped. Oddest time with that was when I was with his girl I really liked. Third or fourth date we start, I'm in for two or three strokes when she says "Stop, I can't do this." I stop, pull out and roll off her, we were in missionary. She snuggles up next to me while I'm flat on my back. She keeps rubbing my chest, then starts running her fingers lightly over my cock. I'm just about to say, "He., if you don't want to do it, that's fine, but YOU have to stop.


That's a LOT more polite than I would've been.
 
2012-02-05 07:20:07 PM

Guidette Frankentits: DreamSnipers: It seems like so many people are ignoring her age. She was 14! If she says "OMG yes, I want to do all of you!" It is rape. If she says 'No!" it is even worse. She said no.

Where are her 'attackers' ages in TFA?


Why is that relevant? She said NO.

Once more...NO MEANS NO!!!
 
2012-02-05 07:22:10 PM

bhcompy: Which is why a jury of 12 determines what reasonable doubt is, rather than a jury of one


and?
jury of 12 is only needed for society to find someone guilty of rape.
she said she was raped.
I believe her.
end of story.

I am not punishing the guy, charging, judging, executing. but I know that he raped her.
worse. he is still out on the street.
he will continue to rape and abuse the people around him until he dies or is imprisoned.

I would guess, if there were ONE thing that I would work to improve the current system?
I would work to get more rape victims to report their rape.
I would work to provide more support structures for rape victims.
I would work to prevent the media/police/courts from releasing the identity of the victim or the accused.
(simple solution, make it a felony with min 10 years jail for releasing the identity of the victim and the accused)

sigh
never gonna happen
not unless we start the war on rape
good thing we are almost done winning the war on drugs
sigh
 
2012-02-05 07:23:16 PM

Bathia_Mapes: Guidette Frankentits: DreamSnipers: It seems like so many people are ignoring her age. She was 14! If she says "OMG yes, I want to do all of you!" It is rape. If she says 'No!" it is even worse. She said no.

Where are her 'attackers' ages in TFA?

Why is that relevant? She said NO.

Once more...NO MEANS NO!!!


In my experience, "no" usually means, "yes, just wait five minutes."
 
2012-02-05 07:24:04 PM

KiplingKat872: bhcompy: boobsrgood: AndreMA: boobsrgood: Three guys handcuff, leash, and gang rape a 14 year-old girl

Nobody outside this thread, as far as I can see, is claiming that both handcuffs and leash

D: I don't remember handcuffs. I remember a collar and a leash.
Me: [crying] Oh my god.
D: For any part that I played in this, I am so farking sorry.
Me: I remember handcuffs.

My charity work helping douchebags learn to read is over for the day.

Me: And I have these memories, but a lot of it is hazy and there are pieces that are missing and some new pieces have come back to me since I got sober.
Me: I just want to know if all this really happened. Cause sometime s it feels like I'm going crazy.
Me: Yes! It was a warehouse? That's real?
Me: I can't believe we were really in a warehouse...that was one of the things that I could never explain. Because I pictured a warehouse but I thought, "Why would we have been in a warehouse?"

etc

She doesn't have good memories of it. She doesn't trust what she does remember. She establishes this herself. Her surprise over the warehouse being real leads to the fact that any recollection she does have may not be reliable.

Execpt for the fact he confirmed the warehouse she remembered but could not explain, as well as the rest of it...


Which validates every memory she has? No, it only validates that particular bit of hazy memory she has.
 
2012-02-05 07:24:07 PM

namatad: I can take a body of evidence: memories, emails, notes, pictures, stories, things from multiple sources and I can apply different weightings based on truthiness. from there I can determine truth or false.


That right there is how the truth is uncovered; not by the testimony of a single witness.

It used to be that the testimony of a single witness was enough, because we believed that eyewitnesses were credible and that people's memories are generally accurate. But they're not; we get things wrong all the time. And there's a ton of evidence that shows it. From the Innocence Project, which uses DNA evidence to exonerate the falsely accused (most are rape cases in which they were misidentified by a single eyewitness), to "leading the witness" and coercions of confessions done by officers of the law, to implanted memories in therapy sessions (of which there was an explosion of cases in the 90s). It's why evidence beyond an eyewitness testimony is so important.
 
2012-02-05 07:24:47 PM
theurbanpagan - All of these occured during the day. All of us were fully clothed. All of us were by ourselves but in very public places with lots of other people around.

It can happen anytime. Anywhere. But just because a woman is out during the day does not make her any less likely to be groped/assualted by some random stranger.

Ask all your female friends. I bet at least half have some story of something like this happening to them.



I've got a few stories of my own, from getting my ass grabbed by random strangers to "Wanker Man," who masturbated in front of me on a street corner in the middle of a bright, sunny weekday. Thankfully, I had my wits about me enough to memorizes his license plate (DEK 2546) as he drove off to help put "Wanker Man" - supposedly nicknamed "The Cedar Hill Rapist" - back behind bars where he belonged.

So, yeah, sometimes it feels like just going about your business in public is dodgy for women. I wonder how many guys have ever felt this way.
 
2012-02-05 07:33:36 PM

Rubberband Girl: theurbanpagan - All of these occured during the day. All of us were fully clothed. All of us were by ourselves but in very public places with lots of other people around.

It can happen anytime. Anywhere. But just because a woman is out during the day does not make her any less likely to be groped/assualted by some random stranger.

Ask all your female friends. I bet at least half have some story of something like this happening to them.


I've got a few stories of my own, from getting my ass grabbed by random strangers to "Wanker Man," who masturbated in front of me on a street corner in the middle of a bright, sunny weekday. Thankfully, I had my wits about me enough to memorizes his license plate (DEK 2546) as he drove off to help put "Wanker Man" - supposedly nicknamed "The Cedar Hill Rapist" - back behind bars where he belonged.

So, yeah, sometimes it feels like just going about your business in public is dodgy for women. I wonder how many guys have ever felt this way.


I was walking my dog at 5:00 am, and dressed down for fall weather, when a guy called me over to his car to "ask directions" with his penis hanging out.

I should have told my dog, "Look Gerry, snausages."

But I just walked off. Obviously on the scale of things it was "meh." But I am utterly mystified why men do that.
 
2012-02-05 07:35:26 PM

boobsrgood: AndreMA: boobsrgood: Three guys handcuff, leash, and gang rape a 14 year-old girl

Nobody outside this thread, as far as I can see, is claiming that both handcuffs and leash

D: I don't remember handcuffs. I remember a collar and a leash.
Me: [crying] Oh my god.
D: For any part that I played in this, I am so farking sorry.
Me: I remember handcuffs.

My charity work helping douchebags learn to read is over for the day.


So which of them is claiming that they remember both?
D says he doesn't remember handcuffs, and the author was surprised at the mention of the collar. BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T REMEMBER IT.

You might work on your own reading comprehension. At least you're no longer claiming that I'm calling anyone a liar because I point out inconsistencies in what they say and note that they themselves admit to memory deficits.

You might also try thinking instead of name-calling. I know it's harder, but try.
 
2012-02-05 07:36:11 PM
...and I had a peeping tom neighbor who I caught taking a pic of me....

...while in sweats, hair pulled back, no make up, drinking a wine cooler, watching Babylon 5.

I called the cops, but seriously, WTF?
 
2012-02-05 07:43:12 PM

KiplingKat872: Lizardking: Got to love how if you dont immediately want to console the victim and strangle everyone else in these situations then you get called evil by all the "enlightened" among us. The bottom line here is: If you dont know by age 14 that putting yourself in a situation like this is inviting bad things to happen to you then you have more serious problems than getting raped.Thats not blaming the victim. Thats calling the victims judgement and sense of awareness into serious question, and in these cases thats fair. If I left my keys in the Ferrari I was driving and the engine running as I went in to get groceries in a bad area of town, do I deserve to get my car stolen? No. But how sorry for me are you going to feel when I tell you about it?

Does the thread get some sort prize for making the same false analogy over and over?


So you WOULD feel sorry for him? Is that what you're saying?
 
2012-02-05 07:44:25 PM

AndreMA: boobsrgood: AndreMA: boobsrgood: Three guys handcuff, leash, and gang rape a 14 year-old girl

Nobody outside this thread, as far as I can see, is claiming that both handcuffs and leash

D: I don't remember handcuffs. I remember a collar and a leash.
Me: [crying] Oh my god.
D: For any part that I played in this, I am so farking sorry.
Me: I remember handcuffs.

My charity work helping douchebags learn to read is over for the day.

So which of them is claiming that they remember both?
D says he doesn't remember handcuffs, and the author was surprised at the mention of the collar. BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T REMEMBER IT.

You might work on your own reading comprehension. At least you're no longer claiming that I'm calling anyone a liar because I point out inconsistencies in what they say and note that they themselves admit to memory deficits.

You might also try thinking instead of name-calling. I know it's harder, but try.


I don't remember the colour of shirt the prick who raped me was wearing, but I can describe the carpeting perfectly.

If you think people who have lived through any traumatic event have perfect recall, that's just foolish. Just because she can't remember everything with perfect clarity that does not mean it did not happen. Especially when he confirms most of it.
 
2012-02-05 07:49:44 PM

DreamSnipers: I only have a couple problems with this article. The first is she should have outed the creep with his full name. Why protect his identity? And this is going to be a classic thread for trolls and trolling this is really the mark of a low life.


Liability and Hearsay as it makes no mention of an actual crime being reported.
 
2012-02-05 07:49:56 PM

John Buck 41: RoyBatty: John Buck 41: Keep this up and I may delete the yellow. As long as we don't debate the (de)merits of raw milk.

It's funny because you're farked in pink as: "Trolled Kennedy daughter thread", which you didn't need to do at all, you just felt like being a gratuitous asshole.

I don't remember that thread, but I'm guessing you think I'm a troll 'cos I said something negative about Ted?

Too bad. I had you as a green Favorite as 'fellow Doors fan'.


I caught that you were a fellow doors fan, and I actually often agree with you on other occasions.

But in a thread about Ted Kennedy's daughter dying at a pretty early age, you felt obligated to tell us all about how evil Ted was and in some pretty obnoxious ways.

It wasn't that you think evil of Ted, that's fine, but your behavior in that thread was the definition of trolling.
 
2012-02-05 07:50:05 PM
I RTFA but didn't read the whole thread. I have mixed feelings. I think the guy has obviously been struggling with what happened. This doesn't excuse anything he did - when she said "no" he should've backed the fark off. But let's look at the scene here. A bunch of teenagers getting farked up. The woman admits that she craved sexual attention. I can see the situation spinning wildly out of control. The girl is brought to this D guy and he's told she's going to give him head. I guess this then leads to sex, with her asking him to stop. I can imagine his under-the-influence, horny, teenage brain, he just wants to get off. So he keeps going anyway, telling her it's cool, and she just stops protesting. Afterwards, I think the realization dawns on him that he farked up, this went too far. Yes HE SHOULD HAVE STOPPED. But from what I understand from the transcript, this girl may have presented herself in a sexual manner, and since there were drugs and alcohol involved, it went way too far. It seems one of the boys was very aggressive, and how the guy D didn't see from the start that she was more or less being coerced into doing these acts, I don't know. Probably because he was wasted. Once again, I'm not excusing the dude at all, but it seems like he needed closure from the experience as well. Hopefully now, if he didn't before, he realizes that he did indeed rape her. It sounds like she has finally gotten her life together after a long time off the beaten path, and that's not easy.

I don't even know if I want to post this. Oh what the hell, here goes...
 
2012-02-05 07:57:02 PM

MENSTRUATION: Reading that + all you farkettes (and the occasional farker) talking about your own experiences is...wow. I don't really know what to say.

I've always been absolutely terrified of being raped. Haven't and hopefully never will. I've been felt up twice (once by a stranger in an extremely dense crowd, once by a doctor in his office) and those were such invasive experiences (especially the doctor -- violation of trust, much?) that I can't imagine how traumatizing it must be to be actually raped. To hear that so many well-adjusted people move past their experiences is just...just...I can't find a word for it, but I admire you all.

The doctor one pisses me off the most because he was supposed to be trustworthy. I was a scared, hurt teenager and he was in a position of power. My mind fogged up so much that all I could manage was, "my mother is waiting outside. I have to go." His response was, "You have to be brave. You have to listen to your doctor. Do you want me to go out there and tell your mother that you refused treatment because you weren't brave?" In retrospect, I wish I had run out of the office, but he was gripping my broken arm pretty hard. He's dead now, and the medical centre in my hometown is named after him. Asshole. I later found out that he once cornered my mother (a medical services professional) in a room and wouldn't let her leave until she had hugged him for long enough, and threatened her if she told anyone. Also, when a friend was 8, he picked her up by her thumbs and wouldn't let her down until she gave him a kiss. What a farking asshole. I'm glad he's dead.

/sorry, haven't really talked about this before. Feels good to get it out.
//so many years asking myself why I didn't run away...


I'm so sorry to hear that. I had a minimally similar experience with a doctor, and that was traumatizing enough.
 
2012-02-05 07:58:46 PM

boobsrgood: Three guys handcuff, leash, and gang rape a 14 year-old girl, and out come the Fark apologists to blame the girl by the score. Trolling and biting humor aside, a lot of you people are total pieces of shiate, and I take solace in the knowledge that you are trapped inside that squirming mess you call a mind.


You call it how you see it, I'll call it how I see it. And as I see it, a self-confessed 14 year old drug addict who thrived on sexual attention willingly prostituted herself to a drug dealer for drugs, and after she sobered up regretted that she got used and passed around like a cheap whore.

Maybe it did get out of hand, and she was made to do degrading shiat after she was bought and paid for. That's what happens when you sell your body to a farking scumbag lowlife drug dealer so you can feed your addiction for drugs and attention.

Drugs are bad, mkay?

Drug dealers and drug addicts aren't nice people, mkay?

When you make stupid choices, you deal with the consequences of your actions and don't try to blame other people, mkay?

If you get shiatfaced and poke a tiger with a stick, whose fault is it if you get bit?
 
2012-02-05 08:01:40 PM
Honest question: What is it about sexual assault that makes it so much more mentally traumatic than regular assault?
 
2012-02-05 08:02:33 PM

RoyBatty: To everyone insisting no means no,

Do you understand that historically, and very recently, that was not at all what boys and girls, men and women were taught, and few of these people were what you would call rape apologizers?

Also, if you insist that no means no, does that mean when your boyfriend, girlfriend, friends, mother, father, boss, teacher, brother, sister, cop tell you "no", do you always leave it at that first no?

You don't ask again, you don't negotiate, you don't try again in a few minutes or an hour or a day? You don't offer reasons why the answer should be yes, you don't try to wear them down, you don't give counter offers, or incentives?

You just leave it at that first "no", because no means no.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 640x476]


You did not read the farking article. This one is actually a very good example of how men have the responsibility to show restraint. No obviously meant no.
 
2012-02-05 08:09:09 PM

KiplingKat872: I don't remember the colour of shirt the prick who raped me was wearing, but I can describe the carpeting perfectly.

If you think people who have lived through any traumatic event have perfect recall, that's just foolish. Just because she can't remember everything with perfect clarity that does not mean it did not happen. Especially when he confirms most of it.


There's a difference between remembering an irrelevant detail like the color of a shirt and remembering the difference between having a collar and leash put on you and being handcuffed.

Nobody said anything about "perfect clarity" until you tried to impose your 'binary thinking' on the subject. I can only conclude that you're either trolling or in serious need of therapy.

Also... "He" doesn't confirm squat. We don't even know that he exists outside the claims of the author.
 
2012-02-05 08:12:48 PM
I'm obligated to begin this post by saying that rape is bad bad bad and that rapists are bad bad people and should be jailed. (But raping them in jail is very funny, though.) So now that we've got that statement is out of the way...

I have one question for the peeps who think that rape victims are a special, extra-victimy species of super-ultra-mega-victim who should not be "blamed" by any expectation of adult behavior...

You must truly dislike women's self-defense courses, huh?

What does a women's self-defense course teach? They start by teaching women how to avoid bad situations. And we all know, that's wrong wrong horribly offensive "victim-blaming." And also, it's completely impossible for a woman to avoid being raped because everything is always 100% her attacker's fault and the onus lies 100% with him.

A woman's self-defense course also teaches a woman how to fight-off her attacker. And that's "victim-blaming!" Right? It reduces the blame on the rapist and is therefore bad bad bad and wrong wrong wrong.

Women's self-defense courses must be awful, horrible, rape-enabling, victim-blaming things, right? We should get rid of them, yes? Because they blame victims by suggesting that women can be empowered to increase the margins of their own safety. Damn those rape-supporting bastards!

Also, you must hate those little mace canisters on key-chains too. They blame victims by suggesting that women are capable of fighting back. And we all know it's simply impossible for a woman to do ANYTHING once she's in the process of being attacked. It's offensive to suggest that she might be able to do something about it, right? Get rid of the mace canisters because blame victims.

In the 1930s, my granny carried a teeny little pistol in her purse "just in case." So-- (gasp!) ZOMG VICTIM-BLAMER! My grandmother supported rape culture?! Whoa, Nelly...

Because we all know that there's absolutely nothing a woman can do to avoid being raped. Which is why we must focus 110% of all of our energies on teaching men it's wrong to rape. Anything other than that that is "victim-blaming" because, as we all know, rape victims are always mindless and passive.

Sure, you have enormous compassion for rape victims. But actually improve women's safety? You're not so big on that. You'd much rather score points against Teh Oppressive Patriarkeh than increase how much control women have over their own destinies.

...

But seriously, in college, I had a female friend; we are all indoctrinated in the whole "no means no" mantra and, yes, the men were taught "rape is bad" (but, gosh, men are all way too pro-rape to comprehend that message anyway, amirite?) But here's the thing: in our "diverse" society, there are sub-groups out there who don't exactly follow the white bourgeois snowflake script of "no means no" that ought to hold sway.

My female friend met a dude online. He was from one of those middle-eastern cultures which plays by different rules. So what do they do? They get drunk, naked and hop in the shower. And when he wanted to have sex with her, she said "no."

Golly, his hands were supposed to fly right-off of her. But they didn't! Uh oh...

So what then, my dears? What happens when focusing 110% of our efforts on "teaching men not to rape" fails? What happens when you hook-up with some dude from an actual real "rape culture" who doesn't realize that you only wanted to play a tease & denial game while drunk and naked? Or that you only wanted to see his penis and not actually touch it? What then?

Nothing, I guess. We can't ever "blame the victim." What happened to that bastard rapist? I don't know. I imagine he went back to Kurdistan and married 4 wives.

So, yeah, all of you who talk about "victim blaming" and "rape culture" and "no means no"? I really get the impression that you'd much rather weep over rape victims and fulminate against Teh Patriakeh than actually prevent a rape.

You love victims, sure. But that's not always the same thing as being compassionate.
 
2012-02-05 08:13:02 PM
Struggling with TFA.

I hung out w/ a Marine and his brother (both 24) in Key West when I was 16 . I knowingly lied about my age to get the Marine to pay for my booze and weed and dinner (tequila munchies). After getting ripped, my friend went to make out with his brother and I went with the Marine to his motel room. What happened next to this day remains a little unclear. The following morning there were bruises but I laughed it off with my friend, as I couldn't remember actually having sex.

A few weeks later, my biggest concern was ending up pregnant. I started making calculations about whether a rape charge (if I could even find the guy) would trump my parent's disappointment about me getting knocked up by some anonmarine. Fortunately, all was well. The coat hanger remained dangling intact on the coat rack for future emergencies, no charges were made and no one found out. For a year or so I went back and forth on what it all meant, writing and re-writing the details because some friends (the American ones) thought it was RAPE. Other's thought it was just a crazy night of maybe-crazy marine sex. Eventually, I got distracted by more fun things, like Fark.

Legally, in the U.S. it was statutory Rape. But, I knowingly took on a hell of a lot of responsibility lying about my age and guzzling a bottle of Jimador despite my mother warning me about what those sorts of things do to girl's panties.

I can't say much other than I was a farked up little gutter punk wannabe living in the suburbs who wanted to experience the worst of the worst to escape the ennui of upper middle class existence (heavy drinking, drugs, older weirdos, shoplifting). Conversely, the Marine was not the most gentlemanly of gentlemen and deserves a keelhauling. I have serious trouble exonerating anyone in this story. That's the trouble with choice. I chose. poorly. Rape is one hell of a-complicated thing.
 
2012-02-05 08:16:53 PM
some edits don't come out in the post. Meh. any who it had to do around choice. What was a good v. bad choice., Experiment sexually as a teenager, etc. my story. Not about TFA, the author, her experience etc.)
 
2012-02-05 08:19:49 PM

Honest Bender: Honest question: What is it about sexual assault that makes it so much more mentally traumatic than regular assault?


Well, for one thing, most people are willing and able to report regular assaults and have their assailant prosecuted and punished. PROVING sexual assault can be challenging, so in many cases, sexual abuse victims never receive the closure that can come from knowing that justice has been served.

But for another thing, sexual violation is usually much more personal and intimate than physical violation. A big part of this does come from our culture. We teach from an early age that sex is supposed to be practiced within the confines of a loving, monogamous, committed relationship, and our culture confirms and reinforces the idea that sex is a very important (some even say SACRED) act. Even if you don't have that opinion personally, that is the prevailing perspective in our culture, so it's bound to have an influence. You see, if somebody punches me in the face, they are only hurting ME. But if somebody rapes me, they are hurting me AND my present/future spouse/committed partner.

And incidentally, it's not at all uncommon for rape victims to end up broken up from the guy they were dating at the time. Part of this may be a reaction on the part of the rape victim to the trauma, and part of it may be a reaction by the boyfriend to knowing that their girlfriend was violated like that. For some men, it can be very difficult to overcome the "image" of that event and to be intimate with their woman again.

That being said, different people react differently to rape AND to assault. What is more traumatic is often in the eye of the survivor.

I've been raped and I've been cut open for a c-section against my will. To ME, the c-section was more traumatic. The rape left no visible scars and no lasting "evidence", so in time I was able to just stop thinking about it. But that c-section left scars that will never heal and a child. Every time I get out of the shower and look in the mirror, I am confronted with physical proof of the fact that my uterus was sliced open against my will, and every time I look at my beautiful son, I am reminded of the terror and trauma of his birth. But that is how *I* have reacted to both incidents, and that is probably NOT how most women will react to similar circumstances.

I don't think it's fair to say, "You were just beaten up; you're not traumatized." But we can acknowledge that ALL forms of violence CAN leave mental and emotional scars; which one is "worse" is ultimately going to be determined by the person who endures it.
 
2012-02-05 08:20:02 PM

KiplingKat872: ParagonComplex: The sad thing is that the most some people got from this is a curiosity about 'penguin head' and how to best use it in real life. Drugs and alcohol can make even good people do bad things. Best friend's younger brother got in trouble for statutory raping a chick after they smoked lots of weed. I don't know the details. I stayed silent after he told me. I followed the Thumper logic of "If ya can't say nuthin' nice, don't say nuthin' at all". I wish I would've said something comforting now since he really is a good kid just a bit of a farkup to be honest. Doesn't really show much intelligence with drugs and alcohol either. I'm pretty sure he was raped at a party after smoking and drinking whiskey. He was too tired to fight it off. Now, if this shiat happened to me I'd never smoke or drink anything again, or at the very least I'd never do it around other people.

A friend of mine who is a school counselor and I discussed the fuzzy issue of alcohol, morning after regrets, and rape, and I agree that drugs and alcohol dinimish everyone's capacity and when farking strangers, you should fark sober to avoid crossed wires. Also, people should only get utterly trashed if they have utter trust in everyone present.

But when discussing rapists (not the act, but the perpetrators) there is a difference between "D***", the stupid intoxicated kid who got carried away, and "M****" the predator who set the entire thing up and was acting abusively towards the girl. 85% of rapists in prison are repeat offenders, averaging six rapes apiece. D*** was a rapist the moment she said "No" (twice!) and he kept going. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

But M**** is the real predatory rapist who probably did it several more times until he got caught. He is the one who was the most dangerous.


I've appreciated your posts, but I have to make one comment about this one. You mention farking strangers as if that's an acceptable behavior. Just because you cannot be sure who you're farking (e. g., who they've farked, what they might have, what they might do), to me, it is not an acceptable behavior, especially for women. They're less able to protect themselves physically.

Don't fark farking strangers, Farkers, for fark's sake.
 
2012-02-05 08:21:41 PM

Honest Bender: Honest question: What is it about sexual assault that makes it so much more mentally traumatic than regular assault?


The intimacy of the violation. What you nornally have complete control over is taken from you and you are invaded in the most personal way. Everything you thought you knew about human relations and your sense of inviolate self is chucked on it's ear.
 
2012-02-05 08:22:23 PM
Comment directed at author, not victim, but how is it only one person has mentioned this line, "I'm reminded of just how prevalent the does-NO-really-mean-no? mindset it with American males." More?

It's pretty offensive, personally.

If you can't see why, just read this and tell me if it's offensive:

"I'm reminded of just how prevalent the does-NO-really-mean-no? mindset it with American black males."

\I am just making a point. No value judgments here other than that's a pretty shiatty thing to say.
 
2012-02-05 08:27:58 PM

Voxper: I'm obligated to begin this post by saying that rape is bad bad bad and that rapists are bad bad people and should be jailed. (But raping them in jail is very funny, though.) So now that we've got that statement is out of the way...

I have one question for the peeps who think that rape victims are a special, extra-victimy species of super-ultra-mega-victim who should not be "blamed" by any expectation of adult behavior...

You must truly dislike women's self-defense courses, huh?

What does a women's self-defense course teach? They start by teaching women how to avoid bad situations. And we all know, that's wrong wrong horribly offensive "victim-blaming." And also, it's completely impossible for a woman to avoid being raped because everything is always 100% her attacker's fault and the onus lies 100% with him.

A woman's self-defense course also teaches a woman how to fight-off her attacker. And that's "victim-blaming!" Right? It reduces the blame on the rapist and is therefore bad bad bad and wrong wrong wrong.

Women's self-defense courses must be awful, horrible, rape-enabling, victim-blaming things, right? We should get rid of them, yes? Because they blame victims by suggesting that women can be empowered to increase the margins of their own safety. Damn those rape-supporting bastards!

Also, you must hate those little mace canisters on key-chains too. They blame victims by suggesting that women are capable of fighting back. And we all know it's simply impossible for a woman to do ANYTHING once she's in the process of being attacked. It's offensive to suggest that she might be able to do something about it, right? Get rid of the mace canisters because blame victims.

In the 1930s, my granny carried a teeny little pistol in her purse "just in case." So-- (gasp!) ZOMG VICTIM-BLAMER! My grandmother supported rape culture?! Whoa, Nelly...

Because we all know that there's absolutely nothing a woman can do to avoid being raped. Which is why we must focus 110% of all of our energies on teaching men it's wrong to rape. Anything other than that that is "victim-blaming" because, as we all know, rape victims are always mindless and passive.

Sure, you have enormous compassion for rape victims. But actually improve women's safety? You're not so big on that. You'd much rather score points against Teh Oppressive Patriarkeh than increase how much control women have over their own destinies.

...

But seriously, in college, I had a female friend; we are all indoctrinated in the whole "no means no" mantra and, yes, the men were taught "rape is bad" (but, gosh, men are all way too pro-rape to comprehend that message anyway, amirite?) But here's the thing: in our "diverse" society, there are sub-groups out there who don't exactly follow the white bourgeois snowflake script of "no means no" that ought to hold sway.

My female friend met a dude online. He was from one of those middle-eastern cultures which plays by different rules. So what do they do? They get drunk, naked and hop in the shower. And when he wanted to have sex with her, she said "no."

Golly, his hands were supposed to fly right-off of her. But they didn't! Uh oh...

So what then, my dears? What happens when focusing 110% of our efforts on "teaching men not to rape" fails? What happens when you hook-up with some dude from an actual real "rape culture" who doesn't realize that you only wanted to play a tease & denial game while drunk and naked? Or that you only wanted to see his penis and not actually touch it? What then?

Nothing, I guess. We can't ever "blame the victim." What happened to that bastard rapist? I don't know. I imagine he went back to Kurdistan and married 4 wives.

So, yeah, all of you who talk about "victim blaming" and "rape culture" and "no means no"? I really get the impression that you'd much rather weep over rape victims and fulminate against Teh Patriakeh than actually prevent a rape.

You love victims, sure. But that's not always the same thing as being compassionate.


Wow, that was a rabid rant of sound and fury signifying nothing to do with reality whatsoever.

For certain you have not seen the number of women in self defence classes.

/Took two myself
//Can't find a krav muga studio around here.
///You're a prick for blaming your friend for what a rapist did to her.
 
2012-02-05 08:29:04 PM

AndreMA: PsiChi: 1.The crime, committed by a man, of forcing another person to have sexual intercourse with him, esp. by the threat or use of violence.

Get a new dictionary. Women can rape men, too.


Definitely not disputing that.
 
2012-02-05 08:30:03 PM
Well, this thread sure enforces the notion of a strong link between misogyny and rape.
 
2012-02-05 08:30:27 PM

KiplingKat872: Honest Bender: Honest question: What is it about sexual assault that makes it so much more mentally traumatic than regular assault?

The intimacy of the violation. What you nornally have complete control over is taken from you and you are invaded in the most personal way. Everything you thought you knew about human relations and your sense of inviolate self is chucked on it's ear.


I have to add...

It is ESPECIALLY damaging for young women. If you don't have a lot of sexual experience and that is one of your first or second sexual encounters, you begin to think that sex is SUPPOSED to be coercive, threatening, and even a little violent. Much of what I've said in this thread (about thinking that being groped in public was "normal", for example) can be directly tied to those early sexual encounters.

If a young woman (I know men can be raped, too, so please forgive the genders in this example) is dating a guy that she trusts and in the middle of a makeout session, she says, "No, please don't!" and he keeps on going, she will be confused. And then later? He tells her that he's sorry - that he just couldn't control himself because she was so beautiful (this is partially victim-blaming and partially flattery) - but that he just loves her so much he wanted to "make you mine", what is she going to think? She's going to think that "love" equals possessiveness, that being attractive and flirtatious is an invitation to men to have sex with her, that any sexual abuse is her fault, and that if a man really "loves" her, he will do whatever he can to have sex with her.

So what happens when she meets another guy? She's going to believe that if a man really "loves" her, he'll be possessive, aggressive, forceful, etc. So that's the type of guy she's going to choose, and this is going to continue unless/until she acknowledges that what happened to her was WRONG and starts to actually seek some counseling to help her escape from this negative pattern.
 
2012-02-05 08:42:58 PM

Teen Wolf Blitzer: Bathia_Mapes: Guidette Frankentits: DreamSnipers: It seems like so many people are ignoring her age. She was 14! If she says "OMG yes, I want to do all of you!" It is rape. If she says 'No!" it is even worse. She said no.

Where are her 'attackers' ages in TFA?

Why is that relevant? She said NO.

Once more...NO MEANS NO!!!

In my experience, "no" usually means, "yes, just wait five minutes."


Straight from orange to ignore.
 
2012-02-05 08:49:00 PM

morgantx: KiplingKat872: Honest Bender: Honest question: What is it about sexual assault that makes it so much more mentally traumatic than regular assault?

The intimacy of the violation. What you nornally have complete control over is taken from you and you are invaded in the most personal way. Everything you thought you knew about human relations and your sense of inviolate self is chucked on it's ear.

I have to add...

It is ESPECIALLY damaging for young women. If you don't have a lot of sexual experience and that is one of your first or second sexual encounters, you begin to think that sex is SUPPOSED to be coercive, threatening, and even a little violent. Much of what I've said in this thread (about thinking that being groped in public was "normal", for example) can be directly tied to those early sexual encounters.

If a young woman (I know men can be raped, too, so please forgive the genders in this example) is dating a guy that she trusts and in the middle of a makeout session, she says, "No, please don't!" and he keeps on going, she will be confused. And then later? He tells her that he's sorry - that he just couldn't control himself because she was so beautiful (this is partially victim-blaming and partially flattery) - but that he just loves her so much he wanted to "make you mine", what is she going to think? She's going to think that "love" equals possessiveness, that being attractive and flirtatious is an invitation to men to have sex with her, that any sexual abuse is her fault, and that if a man really "loves" her, he will do whatever he can to have sex with her.

So what happens when she meets another guy? She's going to believe that if a man really "loves" her, he'll be possessive, aggressive, forceful, etc. So that's the type of guy she's going to choose, and this is going to continue unless/until she acknowledges that what happened to her was WRONG and starts to actually seek some counseling to help her escape from this negative pattern.


Quite true, and not just for inexperienced women. I discussed the long term effects with another poster up the thread. Rape has its own form of PTSD called Rape Related PTSD. Many of the symptoms are similar to those experienced by combat veterans and disaster survivors. Hyperirritability, outbursts of rage, severe depression, avoidance if that which reminds them of the event, nightmares, etc.

Some have difficulty functioning sexually, or some may become hyper sexualized. In my experience is it the ability to be emotionally intimate that gets farked up. They can become trapped in an destructive cycle as you describe, or something less obvious but just as isolating. I am 40, and I have never been able to have a stable relationship for more than 18 months. I was chosing men who kept an emotional distance, and if they did not, I pulled stupid shiat to make sure they did. I even have trouble creating and maintaining friendships.

The real victim is one's sense of self worth. The shame and self hatred can cripple a person. 22 years later, I still struggle with the notion I deserve a good life.

As I said above, rape is the giant squid in the room. You can ignore it, but it has its tentacles wrapped in your preceptions and reactions and it takes a lot of work to disengage it, shove it in a box, and learn to live past it.
 
2012-02-05 08:53:42 PM

mgshamster: namatad: I can take a body of evidence: memories, emails, notes, pictures, stories, things from multiple sources and I can apply different weightings based on truthiness. from there I can determine truth or false.

That right there is how the truth is uncovered; not by the testimony of a single witness.

It used to be that the testimony of a single witness was enough, because we believed that eyewitnesses were credible and that people's memories are generally accurate. But they're not; we get things wrong all the time. And there's a ton of evidence that shows it. From the Innocence Project, which uses DNA evidence to exonerate the falsely accused (most are rape cases in which they were misidentified by a single eyewitness), to "leading the witness" and coercions of confessions done by officers of the law, to implanted memories in therapy sessions (of which there was an explosion of cases in the 90s). It's why evidence beyond an eyewitness testimony is so important.


60 mins did a great series on this a few years ago
Link (new window)
the rape victim and the falsely accused rapist went on to write a book and lecture on the problems with eye witness testimony.

the science behind how eye witness testimony morphs is terrifying.
the number of innocent people in prison for crimes which they didnt commit is truly .... criminal.
the unwillingness of the courts and law enforcement to revisit possible wrongful convictions .... is just inhumane
 
2012-02-05 08:54:31 PM

PsiChi: Teen Wolf Blitzer: Bathia_Mapes: Guidette Frankentits: DreamSnipers: It seems like so many people are ignoring her age. She was 14! If she says "OMG yes, I want to do all of you!" It is rape. If she says 'No!" it is even worse. She said no.

Where are her 'attackers' ages in TFA?

Why is that relevant? She said NO.

Once more...NO MEANS NO!!!

In my experience, "no" usually means, "yes, just wait five minutes."

Straight from orange to ignore.



Ignoring every other story the past 800 posts with anecdotes illustrating just what TWB posted? Alrighty, then.
 
2012-02-05 08:56:39 PM

Stavroginska: Legally, in the U.S. it was statutory Rape.


Age of consent in the majority of the US is 16. There used to be some states that went as low as 14 just a few years back, but now it's 16 or 17 in most states, with a few going as high as 18.
 
2012-02-05 08:58:23 PM
KiplingKat872:

How did I blame her? I was the first person she came to when it happened and I'm the one who dealt with her. She credits me for helping her. Where do I say it's her fault? "No means no" is an inadequate joke and completely naive because it's not about protecting women. It's mainly about blaming 'Teh Patriarkeh'.

So what happens when "teaching men not to rape" doesn't work because you're drunk and naked in the shower with a drunk, naked stranger from an actual real honest-to-Allah "rape culture" where a woman's "no" is a joke? What then?

Nothing at all? All we need to do is teach men "no means no" and "rape is bad" and "take back the night" and everything will be double-rainbows and moonbeams and sparkle-ponies dancing down the happy yellow-brick road? Puh-lease.
 
2012-02-05 08:58:34 PM

clyph: If you get shiatfaced and poke a tiger with a stick, whose fault is it if you get bit?


So, someone taught you that it's ok to rape a person if they are really high, can't feel it, or won't remember it? Let me guess, it was an older relative that taught you this, and you are a heavy sleeper.
 
2012-02-05 09:00:10 PM
Ok, serious question.

Why is rape worse than, say, a violent mugging?

This woman FTFA is still severely screwed up over it 10 years later. Many rape victims cope with drugs and/or alcohol. There are all sorts of groups set up for rape counseling etc.

What makes it so much more traumatic than some other violent physical crime? Getting the fark beaten out of you in a dark alley, for example.

Does the reaction of society to rape make it even more traumatic for the victim? Overreaction? Both situations undoubtedly suck and shouldn't happen to anyone, but I just can't see the difference between the two that would cause such a huge gap in the emotional consequences.

Am I disqualified from understanding because I am a male?

Personally, if I had to choose between a savage beating and a rapin', I'd go with the rapin. I think that most women would choose the savage beating though. I just can't figure out why.
 
2012-02-05 09:01:11 PM
Holy Cow, 820 comments and it is still on topic- is that an internet record or something?
 
2012-02-05 09:01:16 PM

KiplingKat872: Quite true, and not just for inexperienced women. I discussed the long term effects with another poster up the thread. Rape has its own form of PTSD called Rape Related PTSD. Many of the symptoms are similar to those experienced by combat veterans and disaster survivors. Hyperirritability, outbursts of rage, severe depression, avoidance if that which reminds them of the event, nightmares, etc.

Some have difficulty functioning sexually, or some may become hyper sexualized. In my experience is it the ability to be emotionally intimate that gets farked up. They can become trapped in an destructive cycle as you describe, or something less obvious but just as isolating. I am 40, and I have never been able to have a stable relationship for more than 18 months. I was chosing men who kept an emotional distance, and if they did not, I pulled stupid shiat to make sure they did. I even have trouble creating and maintaining friendships.

The real victim is one's sense of self worth. The shame and self hatred can cripple a person. 22 years later, I still struggle with the notion I deserve a good life.

As I said above, rape is the giant squid in the room. You can ignore it, but it has its tentacles wrapped in your preceptions and reactions and it takes a lot of work to disengage it, shove it in a box, and learn to live past it.


I am sorry for your experiences. :(

I remember two things that I thought were unrelated to my rape experiences. One was the way that I always react to medical exams (like Pap smears & vaginal exams). I freak out. Badly. Depending on the doctor, I'll pass out and/or vomit. I never knew why, and then when I was pregnant with my second child and had a midwife, I started to tense up & get nervous. She stopped the exam and gently asked, "Were you sexually abused?" I was shocked. I didn't know that my sexual abuse would cause my medical anxiety. After that (and after counseling), I now tell ALL of my medical care providers about the abuse so that they know to be gentle and that it may take me a little extra time to relax and get comfortable. Some of my doctors give me tranquilizers to take before my exams.

The other thing was...

I was dating this guy and we were very serious about one another. We had been sexually active for a couple of months with no noticeable problems. And then for some strange reason, I remember that he was on top of me and we were going at it, and then he growled. Not in a bad way - just one of those little "pleasure growls". And without even thinking about it, I started kicking and screaming and crying. BECAUSE he knew my history, he immediately got off, stopped, and backed away until I calmed down enough to want to be held, and then he just held me while I cried. He made sure NEVER to make that little growling noise again, though!

It's unusual what will trigger those incidents, though. I was never raped by a doctor, so there's no real reason why I should freak out over medical exams! But I am. And I've been able to do all sorts of things sexually with no problem, but that ONE little noise will still just set me off. I was raped for the first time when I was 12, and it continued on until I was about 18. At 18, I enlisted in the Air Force, and when I completed my Confidence Course and my Field Training Exercise, I made a decision right then that if I could do THAT (when I didn't think I could), I could do anything. And I dumped my abusive boyfriend and I never went back to those bad relationships again.

But that was 13 years ago, and I still have those problems with doctors. (Haven't had anybody do the growl thing in about 10 years, so I don't know if that would still affect me.) Even when you "recover", it's always there.
 
2012-02-05 09:02:26 PM

Silly Jesus: Ok, serious question.

Why is rape worse than, say, a violent mugging?

This woman FTFA is still severely screwed up over it 10 years later. Many rape victims cope with drugs and/or alcohol. There are all sorts of groups set up for rape counseling etc.

What makes it so much more traumatic than some other violent physical crime? Getting the fark beaten out of you in a dark alley, for example.

Does the reaction of society to rape make it even more traumatic for the victim? Overreaction? Both situations undoubtedly suck and shouldn't happen to anyone, but I just can't see the difference between the two that would cause such a huge gap in the emotional consequences.

Am I disqualified from understanding because I am a male?

Personally, if I had to choose between a savage beating and a rapin', I'd go with the rapin. I think that most women would choose the savage beating though. I just can't figure out why.


A couple people have just explained this, please read up the thread.
 
2012-02-05 09:03:58 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: PsiChi: Teen Wolf Blitzer: Bathia_Mapes: Guidette Frankentits: DreamSnipers: It seems like so many people are ignoring her age. She was 14! If she says "OMG yes, I want to do all of you!" It is rape. If she says 'No!" it is even worse. She said no.

Where are her 'attackers' ages in TFA?

Why is that relevant? She said NO.

Once more...NO MEANS NO!!!

In my experience, "no" usually means, "yes, just wait five minutes."

Straight from orange to ignore.


Ignoring every other story the past 800 posts with anecdotes illustrating just what TWB posted? Alrighty, then.


He said a woman tells him "no," but he keeps on going. I'm not going to continue to read what a person like that has to say.
 
2012-02-05 09:07:41 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: theurbanpagan: serial_crusher: serial_crusher: I wonder how often it happens to men also?

ftfm

I don't know. I know my husband hasn't had anything like this happen to him. Nor my brother. I'll ask my friends the next time I see them. I'd be interested to know.

....why do you think he would tell you?


I assume because we've been together for a very long time and well we're honest with each other. As for friends, I don't know if they would tell me or not. I can ask though right?
 
2012-02-05 09:12:00 PM

Silly Jesus: Ok, serious question.

Why is rape worse than, say, a violent mugging?

This woman FTFA is still severely screwed up over it 10 years later. Many rape victims cope with drugs and/or alcohol. There are all sorts of groups set up for rape counseling etc.

What makes it so much more traumatic than some other violent physical crime? Getting the fark beaten out of you in a dark alley, for example.

Does the reaction of society to rape make it even more traumatic for the victim? Overreaction? Both situations undoubtedly suck and shouldn't happen to anyone, but I just can't see the difference between the two that would cause such a huge gap in the emotional consequences.

Am I disqualified from understanding because I am a male?

Personally, if I had to choose between a savage beating and a rapin', I'd go with the rapin. I think that most women would choose the savage beating though. I just can't figure out why.


MANY different factors, but you are NOT disqualified from understanding because you are male. The truth is that for all the sympathy I have for female rape victims, I have even more sympathy for male rape victims, because they have a MUCH harder time being believed and they tend to get a lot less sympathy, compassion, support, and recovery resources than women do. A lot of times, they have to go through their recovery all alone.

But as I said in my previous post, it depends a lot on the person. For a LOT of people, sex is something that is intrinsically connected with their emotional and mental condition. It is connected to their identity, their values, their moral code, their religious identity, their social status, and a whole SLEW of other identifying factors.

I think that victims of violent crime (ANY violent crime) should have support and compassion and RESOURCES available, because ANY victim can become traumatized as a result of the violence.

BUT...

Below are a FEW of the (thousands!) of reactions a person may have to being raped:

*I am a slut.
*I deserved what happened to me.
*He only did it because he loved me.
*I brought this on myself.
*I'm going to hell.
*Everyone is going to make fun of me.
*Nobody would ever believe me.
*Nothing will ever happen to him.
*Everybody would laugh at me if I told them the truth.

True story:
In a small town in the Texas panhandle, a young woman (about 16 or 17, if I recall correctly) was brutally raped by three of her high school football players. We're not talking about miscommunication - this was "rape rape". The woman had bruises, torn clothing, etc. She went to her local cops. The cops said, "We think you're lying. We've heard about you. You were asking for it," and turned the woman away. The woman then had her friend drive her TWO HOURS to Amarillo where she went to the local hospital and DEMANDED that they do a rape kit on her. Technically, Amarillo didn't have jurisdiction over the crime, although the nurses went ahead and gathered the evidence. They called the local cops who couldn't really do anything except offer to assist, and their offer was DENIED by her local sheriff. So one of the nurses contacted the press (with the victim's consent, of course) and told the story to them. After a lot of BAD publicity for her hometown, the sheriff finally decided to graciously accept assistance from Amarillo and refer the case to the District Attorney for prosecution.

But think about that for a moment... Think about the level of courage and bravery that young woman had. After being DENIED by the local cops, she approached a friend for assistance, drove to a larger city, and DEMANDED that evidence be collected. And this was VERY soon after that rape. How many other people in a similar situation would simply go home, shower off all the evidence, and try to forget it?
 
2012-02-05 09:12:17 PM

Voxper: KiplingKat872:

How did I blame her? I was the first person she came to when it happened and I'm the one who dealt with her. She credits me for helping her. Where do I say it's her fault? "No means no" is an inadequate joke and completely naive because it's not about protecting women. It's mainly about blaming 'Teh Patriarkeh'.

So what happens when "teaching men not to rape" doesn't work because you're drunk and naked in the shower with a drunk, naked stranger from an actual real honest-to-Allah "rape culture" where a woman's "no" is a joke? What then?

Nothing at all? All we need to do is teach men "no means no" and "rape is bad" and "take back the night" and everything will be double-rainbows and moonbeams and sparkle-ponies dancing down the happy yellow-brick road? Puh-lease.


Sure sounded like you were blaming her, railing against a culture of willing rape victimhood that does not exist. Blaming lots of people accept American rapists.

We have tons of movies that try to convey the horrors of war. How many actually deal with the realistic after affects if rape and sexual abuse? It's just not as important to make that understanding a cultural staple.

And most feminist are very much in favor of self defence courses. No one who knows what rape is wants anyone, even their worst enemy, to go through that.
 
2012-02-05 09:14:55 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: PsiChi: Teen Wolf Blitzer: Bathia_Mapes: Guidette Frankentits: DreamSnipers: It seems like so many people are ignoring her age. She was 14! If she says "OMG yes, I want to do all of you!" It is rape. If she says 'No!" it is even worse. She said no.

Where are her 'attackers' ages in TFA?

Why is that relevant? She said NO.

Once more...NO MEANS NO!!!

In my experience, "no" usually means, "yes, just wait five minutes."

Straight from orange to ignore.


Ignoring every other story the past 800 posts with anecdotes illustrating just what TWB posted? Alrighty, then.


PsiChi has a history of ignoring evidence that doesn't match up with her beliefs. Why would this time be any different?
 
2012-02-05 09:19:14 PM

KiplingKat872: The real victim is one's sense of self worth. The shame and self hatred can cripple a person. 22 years later, I still struggle with the notion I deserve a good life.

As I said above, rape is the giant squid in the room. You can ignore it, but it has its tentacles wrapped in your preceptions and reactions and it takes a lot of work to disengage it, shove it in a box, and learn to live past it.


This is something which I discussed with my therapist. to try to get a better understanding of how people record/deal/move on from rape. My room mate at the time had been a rape victim and I had little to no real understanding. I still dont. I think it is like a panic attack, if you have never had one, you have no idea. If you have never been raped, it is pretty impossible to imagine. (I think the scene in a girl with the dragon tattoo did a terrifying job at getting me as close to understand as possible, but still not the same thing.

the question which I seem to get stuck on is why not? why isnt reporting this person part of the final process? I understand WHY in the beginning it is impossible. you are shellshocked. you are in survival mode. run and hide and get safe mode. the analogy to war PTSD is obivous. I guess the trap for me is the logical side of the brain. the part which is screaming "YOUR RAPIST IS STILL OUT THERE".

and that is the trap, PTSD is all about the non-logical side of the brain. which is why all the PTSD treatment which I have read about is about connecting the two sides and what not ....

anyways ...
I understand that I will never understand (or hope that I never will).

thank you and all the other victims for being able to reach out and share with us.
It is the ONLY way that we can ever come to an understanding, that we can try to stomp out the "blame the victim" tards, push for changes in the laws to protect the victims and the accused (at least until they are convicted?).
the schools turning a blind eye? wtf is that.
the churches being active supporters of rapists? well that is an old story

but at least by witnessing and hearing these stories, there is hope that when we are confronted by someone we know, we wont react like so many asshats. "what were you wearing?" "where were you?" "were you drinking?" and so many other retarded comments ....

some day I will have to have this conversation with someone very close to me who was raped. I know that she was. but that is all that I know. This is what I get for discussing "everyone knows someone who was raped. they just dont know it"


I would suggest it as an exercise for people who dont know someone who was raped, but ... my guess is that few rape victims would ever want to actually talk to them about the horrors that they went through ....

sigh
 
2012-02-05 09:21:25 PM

PsiChi: ExperianScaresCthulhu: PsiChi: Teen Wolf Blitzer: Bathia_Mapes: Guidette Frankentits: DreamSnipers: It seems like so many people are ignoring her age. She was 14! If she says "OMG yes, I want to do all of you!" It is rape. If she says 'No!" it is even worse. She said no.

Where are her 'attackers' ages in TFA?

Why is that relevant? She said NO.

Once more...NO MEANS NO!!!

In my experience, "no" usually means, "yes, just wait five minutes."

Straight from orange to ignore.


Ignoring every other story the past 800 posts with anecdotes illustrating just what TWB posted? Alrighty, then.

He said a woman tells him "no," but he keeps on going. I'm not going to continue to read what a person like that has to say.


Why did you feel the need to announce that? If you want to do the echo chamber thing I suppose it's your right, but most people are ashamed of mental weakness and you should be too.
 
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