KiplingKat872: It the automatic assumption that all accusations are false that makes it hard for women to come foraward. Not the 10% of rape charges that turn put to be false.

This wasn't even a story about hunting the guy down to throw in jail or revenge, but her courage and maturity in dealing with her past. That's why she did not give names. It was about her healing, not destroying him.

So why are so many people ready to call her a liar?


I can't speak for everyone... but why are you so ready to call anyone sexist who simply isn't willing to automatically believe every detail of an entirely unsubstantiated story? Are you capable of so little self-awareness that you don't realize that you're doing the exact same thing you accuse others of doing if they don't believe her story unquestioningly? Knee-jerk belief or disbelief could both be easily argued to stem from sexism.

Again: No evidence, no witnesses, and the only account of anything related to this story - even what one of the rapists supposedly said - is completely unverifiable and only as related from the memory of the accuser - and the accuser herself casts doubts on the reliability of her memory right from the get go. The story has some details which raise suspicion (that she flat out claims to have so little recollection of the event that she didn't even know she'd been raped herself, the substance abuse, childhood emotional instability) and she's now in precisely in the kind of position which would make creating or embellishing a story which generates this much sympathy and antipathy very valuable to her.

At this stage, according to all the details we have, there is no reason to believe or disbelieve her story, but certainly room for doubt. I don't know if she's telling the truth or lying. I've personally been given false accusations of rape before (search for a long post of mine further upthread for details) but I've also had women tell me entirely truthful stories of sexual assault. People do BOTH.

Your knee-jerk, sexist, "Of course she's telling the truth, who would make something like this up" is, at the very least, incredibly naive. People DO make up stories like that. They make up WORSE stories than that even. And on the flip-side, people actually do things like that to each other and even much worse than that.

So at this stage, it is entirely appropriate to remain skeptical either way until actual evidence or corroboration turns up. If you don't like that then blame your creator, this is the universe she/he/it built for us to inhabit. Some people suck, and it isn't always the person you first thought it was.

RoyBatty: Um, no, this is now just you speech policing and bullying the thread. If we are having a conversation then none of us are rape apologists.

PERIOD.

Just describing anyone that disagrees with you as a rape apologist is rude and dishonest.

See, I used the quotes around "apologists" and didn't even use the term rape before it to indicate that it was not my own term. Just a lack of a better term for the people like you in this thread, who seem to feel the need to make arguments against the woman concerning things that were not in debate. So, no problem stopping using it since I never started it.

This kind of falls in line with your argument that women expect to be protected by men from other men. Again, this is a strawman. No one has made this argument or at least not pervasively enough for it to be a legitimate issue in this thread.

Finally...your bad experience with a woman is not what this thread is about. Moreover it definitely does not negate the fact that this woman may have had a bad experience too. It's accepted that men and women lie, but there's no reason at this point to believe she is.

I don't think anyone's lying.

I think everyone involved is a dumb kid, and words like 'rape' doesn't really apply to kids who are doing dumb things while they're farked up or drunk. Rape is a malicious attack, not sex that you regret afterwards or feel weird about because you bit off more than you can chew; I've gone through that a time or two myself, but handling crazy shiat comes with the territory when you're learning how to be kinky.

At the base of it, though, rape isn't about being aroused or wanting to have sex. It's a form of attack, it's wanting to hurt someone physically and psychologically, and it doesn't seem like that's coming up here so much.

It took guts to talk to the guy and I'm glad she did it. I hope it's part of her healing process. I just can't find myself filled with righteous anger at him; they were both dumb kids. He just happens to be on the side of dumb that's bigger and stronger.

it is a weak and pathetic specimen of homo sapien that needs to gang up on a young and impaired female to satisfy their lustful and base desires.
a bunch of f*cking winners in fact that i wouldn't consider quite human and would destroy out of hand should that decision be left to me.

sarah_t_s: gulogulo: it's womyn.

It's a bullshiat word, I give it no countenance and spell it however I wish.

That this offends you pleases me greatly.

It doesn't offend me. Just trying to help you look less like an idiot since you're the only one using it. But, to each their own, I guess.

Late to the conversation here, and quite honestly, don't have the time to read all 540+ posts. Maybe I will later.


This article and the swarming of fellow females complimenting her on how heroic she is misses an obvious point. She was in a bad place for whatever reason back then and put herself in a situation she wasn't ready to handle. Teenagers are clinically proven to be underdeveloped in the brain to handle complex emotions, nuances in understanding their actions, and the importance of their actions on others. It sickens me that she placed all of her baggage on an idiot kid who was drunk and horney, when she herself was messed up in the head and drunk when the unfortunate misunderstanding occurred.

As she grew up the first thing she should have done was look in the mirror and been fairer with her assessment of the whole situation. Parents tell their kids to stay away from booze, pot, skeezy warehouses, and packs of hormonal teenage boys for a reason. She made some bad choices and should have owned them in the name of true feminism.

A similar situation happened to my sister-in-law, where she was rebellious, biatchy to her parents, older sister, and myself all the time, and ignored our advice to stay away from a group of teenage boys when we were all vacationing in Florida. The sister-in-law went off with one of the guys to let him get all to way to third base and make a run for home. Apparently she felt like it was going to far when he was almost finished, let him continue (according to her account she didn't make a loud fuss) and tried to tell us she was assaulted on the trip.

Her sister and I made it pretty clear to her she was re-writing history. You cannot put yourself in situations you know are wrong, grow up a little bit, become ashamed at your stupidity, and then claim the guy is evil. Her sister, my wife, made some pretty idiotic choices in high school and college, as many do, and owned her choices. Didn't feel proud about some of them, but owned them.

The author of the article needs to do the same and stop letting herself wallow in victimhood.

Dont just teach your sons that no means no. Teach them them not to get themselves into a situation where its their word against a woman's, they will loose. That's just the way it is.

Even the school skank that will blow anyone at the party once shes had a couple of pops can make your life a living hell. You have zero control over the "conceptual" switch. Piss her off or if she comes to her senses and resolves to stop her self hating getting back a daddy ways, that switch gets flipped and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it other than get a good lawyer. That whore you knew will show up in the courtroom she's a perfect little princess who was preyed upon by you and anyone who says otherwise is "attacking the victim":


Teach your daughters that they cant rely on no means no. Teach them that have have some power here and with that power comes responsibility. If you dress like a whore you might just get treated like one. Sure the law might be on your side but your therapy is going last a lot longer than whatever jail time your "attacker"

Oh, and these lessons start earlier than you think

olddinosaur: Hmmm, let's see:

She showed up at a place where low-life guys hang out.;
She was blasted to the gills on dope of some kind;
She was so blasted she does not remember what happened, but she says it was rape;
There are no details as to what they were charged with, where the trial took place, or whether they were convicted;
She cannot recall simple details even to this day;
She doesn't do what any sensible person would do, which is hunt down the bastards and kill them.


The whole thing does not ring true to me. I think there was a party, everyone was stoned to the armpits, and the whole thing got totally out of hand.

I don't know if her story is true or not, but if you honestly think that every sexual assault get reported and tried, and that people don't block out traumatic events then I have a bridge to sell you.

Good friend of mine got raped in college. She was a virgin, at the time (not that it really matters). She was at a party, wanted to go home, so she asked an acquaintance if he'd walk her home safely. He agreed, but on the way, he said he needed to stop by his dorm room for something. So, she followed him to his room, at which point he suddenly struck her and while she was dazed and nearly unconsious, proceeded to rape her.

She tried to continue going to the school, but she had a hard time functioning. Her coach (she played soccer) noticed her extreme personality shift and eventually pried the truth out of her. He then took steps to apprehend the rapist. The rapist just happened to be on the football team, and once the administration of this very Christian school got wind of what was coming down the pipes, they did everything they could to block the soccer coach from pursing the matter (I believe they threatened to fire him, though I'm not entirely sure of that).

It all ended with the football player getting a slap on the wrist, and told not to behave in such a manner. The girl was told the matter was taken care of. She left the school, of course -- a year later she tried to commit suicide. The fact that she didn't succeed is really shocking given what she did to make it happen.

Anyway, the girl would never tell me the boy's name that did all this to her. I'd've killed him, if I learned -- which is probably, at least in a small part, why she kept it a secret. The more likely reason is just that she didn't want to talk/re-live it.

/rapists should be castrated. I could really care less if that sounds barbaric.

someahole: I would've called BS too, except it's evidently happened to me. My wife is into anal, but I make a point to always ask first and then I take it slow. One night after we finished up what I thought was vaginal sex, she says to me that she'd never been farked in the ass so hard before, but enjoyed it. At some point I slipped out and continued in the wrong hole without missing a beat or even noticing (obviously she didn't say anything). My response was "Anal? What?", and then she's confused, maintaining that it's not even the first time I've switched without asking. Evidently I don't always notice if I go in the out-door. And that's even without condoms, my wife and I don't even use them when it's just us.

I can vouch for this too. Also, I want to party with this guy.

Gwynplaine: Lets just get the no means no stuff out of the way, and the rape is bad stuff. I'm with ya. I'm not trying to defend the guy, I don't want it read that way.

I don't get the impression from the article that the intercourse with D and the warehouse gang blowjob thing were things that happened at the same time. They talked about the warehouse, she didn't remember a lot about that. Then he seemed to change the subject to talking about the time they had sex... it sounded like she remembered that a lot clearer.

Not that it really matters, but I'm having a hard time working through the sequence of events.

I do think that I'm probably just going to close the window and forget that this article exists... I've gotten nothing from it

I reread that just now.

Me: I remember saying no, D****.

D: At least at one point, you said, 'No, let's stop.' Maybe a couple of times. But then everything would be OK. I remember afterward you were really emotionally unresponsive, not talking. You left in a hurry. When I heard that you were in a bad place, that's the first thing I kind of thought of.

Me: Well, yeah.

D: I do want you to know that I am so farking sorry for any pain I caused you. I did like you. There was no disrespect or ... I never saw you as a piece of meat or some biatch. You were a farked up little girl and I can see that more clearly now.

Me: Well, I was...and my background contributed....I craved that sexual attention and put myself in bad situations. And I didn't know how to ... I said no, but I didn't scream or bite or kick because that's not what I knew how to do. I just asked you nicely to stop.

She seems passive and unable to will herself to get up and leave. She lets this happen to her against her will. She cedes control to the boy.

I think telling girls that "no means no" and then insisting in forums that "no means no" is probably not a successful tactic.

I think helping girls and women understand that historically, "no means maybe" and "here's how you ensure it means no" is a better tactic.

And that we should raise our kid with enough self-respect, self-esteem, power or whatever to get the hell out of situations they don't want to be in.

Ladies of Fark




I'm sorry for the trauma you've endured. On behalf of the men who don't suck, I wish you a Happy Valentine's Day.

I have to add, I'm actually REALLY impressed with Fark today.

Not everybody agrees that the situation in the original article was "rape rape", and not everybody agrees on the level of culpability that the guy from TFA actually has. But the attitudes I'm seeing - even from those accused of being "rape apologists" - are refreshing. So many of you guys are absolutely horrified at the idea of rape, and many of you have expressed that you will NOT go along with a woman "playing hard to get" because you don't enjoy non-consensual sex.

It's not often that I feel inspired and impressed with Farkers. Don't know what you guys have been drinking today, but thank you!

Memnoch: Fact:

The only consent is enthusiastic consent.

I think that's the only safe path.

Man...I wish I had some beer to drink while I read this thread.

Actually, I just wish I had some beer. Stupid Indiana liquor laws.

I'm wired weirdly. I don't get angry, I get sad. Somebody's dead, everyone's mad as hell, I'm sad. A girl gets raped, everyone's mad as hell, I'm sad. When I was a baby, my sister was abused and raped by a "friend" of the family. He said he'd kill our parents if she told, but when she did he went to prison. I guess my only consolation is that he wasn't into dudes because he never touched me. Every time I think about it, I don't get angry, I just feel sadder.

I've heard the story several times. Makes me sadder every time I hear it. I can't connect with a woman in a relationship because I can't be assured of her intentions. Maybe she's genuine, but more likely she will hurt me. I don't believe in love and I especially despise the idea of marriage. Anyone who partakes in either is deluded. Even (especially) the ones who seem stable.

Valarius: Ladies of Fark

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I'm sorry for the trauma you've endured. On behalf of the men who don't suck, I wish you a Happy Valentine's Day.

Only girls can be raped? I'm a male. By the textbook definition, I was raped by a female(and she stole my virginity). I said no, she said yes, then she sat on it. I told her to stop and she didn't.

That said, her story doesn't prove or disprove rape. It wouldn't hold up in court, probably not even past a grand jury on its own.

ArkAngel: Leaving the keys in the ignition of my Corvette in South Central LA doesn't mean I deserve to get my car stolen, it means I contributed to it happening by doing something unwise.

Like being 14? Even if the guys who raped her weren't 18 yet, she was still under the age of consent. Doing something unwise would be something like raping jailbait, don't you think? Just because you have the means to do something doesn't mean you have to do it if you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that what you are going to do is wrong.

This is so incredibly farked up. Sometimes I wonder if all rapists don't tell themselves that what they did was consensual. The problem is that this girl was 14, and in no position to consent to anything according to the law. I meet women every day at work it seems who were assaulted or molested before they were out of childhood. Sometimes it seems like it has happened to nearly all of the women I know.

The part that kills me is when I hear from all of them that they were called liars, or they never told anyone. Sometimes they make excuses for their attacker, because it's what everyone else around them has done. I know women who have been ostracized and harassed until they left town, all because they spoke up, and the family and friends of the rapist/molester start making trouble for her day and night so that she can't leave the house anymore.

I live in the silly hope that one day every one of the monsters who keep this blight on our society going will spontaneously combust at the same time. It would kill two birds with one stone. We'd simultaneously be rid of them, we'd know who they were, and they'd finally get what they had coming to them.

military armrest: ExperianScaresCthulhu: KiplingKat872: This took some serious courage. I never saw the bastard who raped me again. I just wanted to run away like she said at the beginning of the article. We had been dating and he left a couple messages on my machine, pissed off that I was not returning his calls, but I never answered them and quit the place I worked at where we had met. It took me a long time to deal with what happened, and get closure on my own.

Are you one of those biatches who tells the same sob stories (different names) to the new White Knights in your life, leaving shiat out, and when your Bipolarism kicks in again, you start trying to 'recreate' history with the new White Knight who thought he was trying to help you and Be A Better Man Than The Ones Who Hurt You Before?


What the fark is wrong with you, I don't understand why you hate your fellow women so much. Do you think this will make the men on this site like you better? What did she say that has you spewing the vemon? She is relating a painful experience and how it related to the story. My question is what happened in your past to hate all woman and to act like rape never ever happens. Do you think that it can't happen to you? That if you follow the "rules" that you won't ever be attacked, cause honey I have bad news for you. I followed the rules and I still had an attempted, I got lucky and someone stopped it. But that was pure dumb luck, not all women have luck on their side.

- I hate being lied to.
- I hate when somebody tells such a lie in order to manipulate me, and manipulate others, through sympathy.
- Men want to be respected, not confronted.
- Her being lionized -- when I find her to be an unreliable narrator -- makes me spew venom.
- Emmitt Till happened, to make me distrust
- What makes you think it didn't? (It didn't.)
- I do not -- and can not allow myself -- to depend upon others to stop bad shiat for me.

RoyBatty: Me: Well, I was...and my background contributed....I craved that sexual attention and put myself in bad situations. And I didn't know how to ... I said no, but I didn't scream or bite or kick because that's not what I knew how to do. I just asked you nicely to stop.

At least Emily took some personal responsibility. Probably why she isn't seeking prosecution.

Blink: Good friend of mine got raped in college. She was a virgin, at the time (not that it really matters). She was at a party, wanted to go home, so she asked an acquaintance if he'd walk her home safely. He agreed, but on the way, he said he needed to stop by his dorm room for something. So, she followed him to his room, at which point he suddenly struck her and while she was dazed and nearly unconsious, proceeded to rape her.

She tried to continue going to the school, but she had a hard time functioning. Her coach (she played soccer) noticed her extreme personality shift and eventually pried the truth out of her. He then took steps to apprehend the rapist. The rapist just happened to be on the football team, and once the administration of this very Christian school got wind of what was coming down the pipes, they did everything they could to block the soccer coach from pursing the matter (I believe they threatened to fire him, though I'm not entirely sure of that).

It all ended with the football player getting a slap on the wrist, and told not to behave in such a manner. The girl was told the matter was taken care of. She left the school, of course -- a year later she tried to commit suicide. The fact that she didn't succeed is really shocking given what she did to make it happen.

Anyway, the girl would never tell me the boy's name that did all this to her. I'd've killed him, if I learned -- which is probably, at least in a small part, why she kept it a secret. The more likely reason is just that she didn't want to talk/re-live it.

/rapists should be castrated. I could really care less if that sounds barbaric.


I've come across my share of horror stories too, and like you I have absolutely 0 sympathy for rapists. For me, someone who would violate someone like that simply because that person is vulnerable to their power puts them firmly on the "zombie" side of the uncanny valley for me, and I would be just fine with the death penalty for such people.

But it's a serious allegation which triggers all sorts of extreme emotional responses in people, so it's GOT to be proven. One of my posts further upthread details my account of me very nearly perpetrating some vigilante justice on an entirely innocent person because of a false accusation of a traumatic rape that someone I trusted gave to me. If I hadn't figured it out in time there's a very good chance I could have done some very nasty things to a person who just happened to live at an address that a (as it turns out) very troubled person gave me.

Don't take that the wrong way, I'm in no way implying that your friend did to you what my friend did to me. I'm just saying that whenever we hear these things the very best thing we can do is keep our wits about us, not let emotion cloud our judgement, and reserve judgement until we can get some kind of verification. In the context of a friend telling you... the best thing you can do is to console them, give them lots of sympathy and support, encourage them to contact the authorities immediately, and NOT go off half-cocked ready to personally do harm to someone based on the accusation alone. You can never really know what demons someone is hiding. Act prudently and stay safe.

Your job is to provide the shoulder to cry on, the ears that listen, and the wisdom of your advice. Let the police dole out justice ALWAYS in these situations.

Blink: Good friend of mine got raped in college. She was a virgin, at the time (not that it really matters). She was at a party, wanted to go home, so she asked an acquaintance if he'd walk her home safely. He agreed, but on the way, he said he needed to stop by his dorm room for something. So, she followed him to his room, at which point he suddenly struck her and while she was dazed and nearly unconsious, proceeded to rape her.

She tried to continue going to the school, but she had a hard time functioning. Her coach (she played soccer) noticed her extreme personality shift and eventually pried the truth out of her. He then took steps to apprehend the rapist. The rapist just happened to be on the football team, and once the administration of this very Christian school got wind of what was coming down the pipes, they did everything they could to block the soccer coach from pursing the matter (I believe they threatened to fire him, though I'm not entirely sure of that).

It all ended with the football player getting a slap on the wrist, and told not to behave in such a manner. The girl was told the matter was taken care of. She left the school, of course -- a year later she tried to commit suicide. The fact that she didn't succeed is really shocking given what she did to make it happen.

Anyway, the girl would never tell me the boy's name that did all this to her. I'd've killed him, if I learned -- which is probably, at least in a small part, why she kept it a secret. The more likely reason is just that she didn't want to talk/re-live it.

/rapists should be castrated. I could really care less if that sounds barbaric.

Compare this story to the one from the original article and you'll notice MANY differences. As unpopular as it may b to say, there are different degrees of rape. I just think the word is thrown around too easily by some women who make poor decisions. In the case of your friend, she was phsysically attacked and forcibly raped. This is in my opinion less morally dubious than "15 years later, after thinking it through, I've decided to call what happened to me rape". It's that the word should not be casually tossed around to describe any unwanted sexual activities. What the author describes sounds really awful and I can only imagine that would fark somone up mentally.

But I just can't get super indignant and scream bloody rape when her version of the story (because that's really what it is) is fairly nebulous and is based off of recollections. I mean...I can't speak for any victims of sexual assault...but if I were raped, the police would be contacted immediately and I would use no uncertain language to describe what happened.

That being said (before I'm seen by some posters as some rape-apologist), what she went through must have sucked and the fault lies 99% at the feet of the three boys who were present. But for her to advertise this and use it to garner attention and sympathy (it seems she really likes the subject) must make victims of violent rape really angry. She just seems like an attention seeker.

/waiting to be taken out of context and called a monster

bhcompy: Valarius: Ladies of Fark

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I'm sorry for the trauma you've endured. On behalf of the men who don't suck, I wish you a Happy Valentine's Day.

Only girls can be raped? I'm a male. By the textbook definition, I was raped by a female(and she stole my virginity). I said no, she said yes, then she sat on it. I told her to stop and she didn't.

That said, her story doesn't prove or disprove rape. It wouldn't hold up in court, probably not even past a grand jury on its own.

yeah cause it's perfectly normal for 14 year of girls to like to blow 3 dudes in a dirty warehouse before one of them screws her on the floor, right?

are you some sort of idiot?

bhcompy: Valarius: Ladies of Fark

[images.blogstream.com image 455x400]


I'm sorry for the trauma you've endured. On behalf of the men who don't suck, I wish you a Happy Valentine's Day.

Only girls can be raped? I'm a male. By the textbook definition, I was raped by a female(and she stole my virginity). I said no, she said yes, then she sat on it. I told her to stop and she didn't.

That said, her story doesn't prove or disprove rape. It wouldn't hold up in court, probably not even past a grand jury on its own.

The FBI recently changed the definition of rape to include men as victims.

Link (new window)

bhcompy: Valarius: Ladies of Fark

[images.blogstream.com image 455x400]


I'm sorry for the trauma you've endured. On behalf of the men who don't suck, I wish you a Happy Valentine's Day.

Only girls can be raped? I'm a male. By the textbook definition, I was raped by a female(and she stole my virginity). I said no, she said yes, then she sat on it. I told her to stop and she didn't.

Clearly something about that aroused you or it wouldn't have been possible.
Not rape
Troll or fool, cannot tell

sheilanagig: ArkAngel: Leaving the keys in the ignition of my Corvette in South Central LA doesn't mean I deserve to get my car stolen, it means I contributed to it happening by doing something unwise.

Like being 14? Even if the guys who raped her weren't 18 yet, she was still under the age of consent. Doing something unwise would be something like raping jailbait, don't you think? Just because you have the means to do something doesn't mean you have to do it if you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that what you are going to do is wrong.

This is so incredibly farked up. Sometimes I wonder if all rapists don't tell themselves that what they did was consensual. The problem is that this girl was 14, and in no position to consent to anything according to the law. I meet women every day at work it seems who were assaulted or molested before they were out of childhood. Sometimes it seems like it has happened to nearly all of the women I know.

The part that kills me is when I hear from all of them that they were called liars, or they never told anyone. Sometimes they make excuses for their attacker, because it's what everyone else around them has done. I know women who have been ostracized and harassed until they left town, all because they spoke up, and the family and friends of the rapist/molester start making trouble for her day and night so that she can't leave the house anymore.

I live in the silly hope that one day every one of the monsters who keep this blight on our society going will spontaneously combust at the same time. It would kill two birds with one stone. We'd simultaneously be rid of them, we'd know who they were, and they'd finally get what they had coming to them.

Various states have romeo and juliet laws. In those cases, depending on the law, being underage doesn't mean anything if the other party is within the age range of the law. She couldn't consent to it and neither could the other party.

s2s2s2: RoyBatty: Me: Well, I was...and my background contributed....I craved that sexual attention and put myself in bad situations. And I didn't know how to ... I said no, but I didn't scream or bite or kick because that's not what I knew how to do. I just asked you nicely to stop.

At least Emily took some personal responsibility. Probably why she isn't seeking prosecution.

Probably she's not seeking prosecution because the statute of limitations has expired. It's what happens to a lot of people who have been victims of crime in their childhood, especially this kind of crime. It's because they're confused, and they black it out, and then it takes decades of therapy to finally confront the fact that they were raped. By the time all of this is through, the perpetrator of the crime is free and clear, because the statute ran out.

Anyone who says she changed her mind about it being rape didnt read TFA

/he said he heard about what had happened around school
//clearly it was "rape" in her mind as soon as it happened

tblax: bhcompy: Valarius: Ladies of Fark

[images.blogstream.com image 455x400]


I'm sorry for the trauma you've endured. On behalf of the men who don't suck, I wish you a Happy Valentine's Day.

Only girls can be raped? I'm a male. By the textbook definition, I was raped by a female(and she stole my virginity). I said no, she said yes, then she sat on it. I told her to stop and she didn't.

Clearly something about that aroused you or it wouldn't have been possible.
Not rape
Troll or fool, cannot tell

I've been aroused with out wanting to go all the way. I don't see your point.

mongbiohazard: KiplingKat872: It the automatic assumption that all accusations are false that makes it hard for women to come foraward. Not the 10% of rape charges that turn put to be false.

This wasn't even a story about hunting the guy down to throw in jail or revenge, but her courage and maturity in dealing with her past. That's why she did not give names. It was about her healing, not destroying him.

So why are so many people ready to call her a liar?


I can't speak for everyone... but why are you so ready to call anyone sexist who simply isn't willing to automatically believe every detail of an entirely unsubstantiated story? Are you capable of so little self-awareness that you don't realize that you're doing the exact same thing you accuse others of doing if they don't believe her story unquestioningly? Knee-jerk belief or disbelief could both be easily argued to stem from sexism.

Again: No evidence, no witnesses, and the only account of anything related to this story - even what one of the rapists supposedly said - is completely unverifiable and only as related from the memory of the accuser - and the accuser herself casts doubts on the reliability of her memory right from the get go. The story has some details which raise suspicion (that she flat out claims to have so little recollection of the event that she didn't even know she'd been raped herself, the substance abuse, childhood emotional instability) and she's now in precisely in the kind of position which would make creating or embellishing a story which generates this much sympathy and antipathy very valuable to her.

At this stage, according to all the details we have, there is no reason to believe or disbelieve her story, but certainly room for doubt. I don't know if she's telling the truth or lying. I've personally been given false accusations of rape before (search for a long post of mine further upthread for details) but I've also had women tell me entirely truthful stories of sexual assault. People do BOTH.

Your knee-jerk, sexist, "Of course she's telling the truth, who would make something like this up" is, at the very least, incredibly naive. People DO make up stories like that. They make up WORSE stories than that even. And on the flip-side, people actually do things like that to each other and even much worse than that.

So at this stage, it is entirely appropriate to remain skeptical either way until actual evidence or corroboration turns up. If you don't like that then blame your creator, this is the universe she/he/it built for us to inhabit. Some people suck, and it isn't always the person you first thought it was.

And you lack awareness period to realize that the weight of evidence at the moment is with the writer of the article.

You just have, "biatches be lyin' cuz people be e-vul" while you miss the entire point of the article in your rush to prove her a liar.

Again, for the upteenth time, just because 10% of rape accusations are false (according to the last DoJ report I read) that does not mean they all are and to create an environment that assume that rape victims are liars doesn't help anyone.

Julie Cochrane: skoobx: Oh boy, I know some will get mad at this but.....

If she is unclear whether she was raped or not, how can he be sure if it was rape? I am not defending this guy, but it seems as though he may not have been exactly sober either. Is it ok for her to be so messed up that she can't be sure what happened, but he must be completely accountable even if he was just as inebriated? There are just too many things about this story that don't seem to paint the while picture. I get that he admitted she said stop several times. But she may have been having buyers remorse, but then she may have pulled him closer, our lifted her hips. Now, if it was me, I'm done as soon as she says no. No matter what. But I can see where a young man might get confused about a girl visibly showing signs of continuing intercourse, but saying no. Especially after she just blew two of my friends. Before you flame, I'm not saying it's right. It obviously was a horrible event for the girl. But as teenagers, we all make very horrible decisions. Some in here have said that it is rape if an underage person is under the influence. But if the boys were underage too, we can't expect them to make the greatest decisions ever either. There is just way too much missing in this story to declare anyone involved as rapists. At least in this article.
Glad she could find some closure though.

The easiest way for me to make sense out of something like this is to say yes, she was raped.

And then look at the boy involved and say, he was underage and as a juvenile had diminished judgment.

I mean, figure you're out in the woods with a close friend and your friend gets shot and it's an evil murderer, and your friend dies horribly in front of you and get wounded---you survive, but you're horribly traumatized and your friend is dead.

Now, figure the same situation, only instead of an evil murderer, it's some guy and it's either a tragic accident or the guy has some degree of negligence or malice that gives him some degree of culpability less than murder. Your friend still dies horribly in front of you and you get wounded--you survive. You are still horribly traumatized and your friend is dead.

The effect on you, as the surviving victim, is exactly the same in both cases.

The treatment for you, as the surviving victim, is exactly the same.

The difference is in the degree of guilt of the guy who fired the shots.

The injury to the victim here is rape.

The culpability of the man, then a boy, is very uncertain. And not relevant to the recovery of the victim.

They're two separate things.

Thanks for your well thought and stated response. While I do not agree 100%, I see your point. I didn't mean my initial post to seem as unsympathetic to the girl as out may have come across. I understand that the event in question may have haunted her. But the thing that bothers me about the whole story is the fact that such important details are left out. Perhaps on purpose. Where others read the guys words as "omg, I am so guilty and I'm so sorry for raping you", I read it as, "holy shiat, you think I raped you, I don't remember it that way." In fact, part of the conversation that was left in has him stating that he was shocked she went telling people he raped her. That is very telling to his mindset when he was younger.

tblax: bhcompy: Valarius: Ladies of Fark

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I'm sorry for the trauma you've endured. On behalf of the men who don't suck, I wish you a Happy Valentine's Day.

Only girls can be raped? I'm a male. By the textbook definition, I was raped by a female(and she stole my virginity). I said no, she said yes, then she sat on it. I told her to stop and she didn't.

Clearly something about that aroused you or it wouldn't have been possible.
Not rape
Troll or fool, cannot tell

I consented to manual stimulation. I didn't consent to unprotected vagina intercourse.

Popular Opinion: bhcompy: Valarius: Ladies of Fark

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I'm sorry for the trauma you've endured. On behalf of the men who don't suck, I wish you a Happy Valentine's Day.

Only girls can be raped? I'm a male. By the textbook definition, I was raped by a female(and she stole my virginity). I said no, she said yes, then she sat on it. I told her to stop and she didn't.

That said, her story doesn't prove or disprove rape. It wouldn't hold up in court, probably not even past a grand jury on its own.

yeah cause it's perfectly normal for 14 year of girls to like to blow 3 dudes in a dirty warehouse before one of them screws her on the floor, right?

are you some sort of idiot?

Tell me how any of what you just said makes this story true?

bhcompy: Various states have romeo and juliet laws. In those cases, depending on the law, being underage doesn't mean anything if the other party is within the age range of the law. She couldn't consent to it and neither could the other party.

IF the contact is consensual, as in a relationship between a pair of teenagers. The Romeo and Juliet laws do not cover rape, even if it is carried out by someone under the age of consent. Try again.

tblax: bhcompy: Valarius: Ladies of Fark

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I'm sorry for the trauma you've endured. On behalf of the men who don't suck, I wish you a Happy Valentine's Day.

Only girls can be raped? I'm a male. By the textbook definition, I was raped by a female(and she stole my virginity). I said no, she said yes, then she sat on it. I told her to stop and she didn't.

Clearly something about that aroused you or it wouldn't have been possible.
Not rape
Troll or fool, cannot tell

Arousal is involuntary. It is a physical response to physical stimuli. Women have been aroused during rape. Rape has nothing to do with arousal.

Your commentary is completely invalid.

MoronLessOff: tblax: bhcompy: Valarius: Ladies of Fark

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I'm sorry for the trauma you've endured. On behalf of the men who don't suck, I wish you a Happy Valentine's Day.

Only girls can be raped? I'm a male. By the textbook definition, I was raped by a female(and she stole my virginity). I said no, she said yes, then she sat on it. I told her to stop and she didn't.

Clearly something about that aroused you or it wouldn't have been possible.
Not rape
Troll or fool, cannot tell

I've been aroused with out wanting to go all the way. I don't see your point.




The reason this is a troll image is because that doesn't make any sense.
Boner= you're into it

gulogulo: Just a lack of a better term for the people like you in this thread, who seem to feel the need to make arguments against the woman concerning things that were not in debate.

Ya know what, you're incredibly full of shiat.

Let's look at the tape:

This seems to be the logic of the "apologists."
I have not apologized for anyone.


Don't condemn the rapist until you've thoroughly acknowledged that she made bad choices.
I have done this nowhere.

In fact, maybe only give a back handed "bad boy" to the rapist while writing a soliloquy on the shiatty choices she made.

I have done this nowhere.

No one is even remotely claiming the 14 year-old girl was not acting responsibly. Not a single person said "hey, totally reasonable she went and did that." The fact that this should in any way exonerate her attackers is really the weird thing here. And if you aren't saying that to exonerate them, why are you and others constantly bringing it up?

Do you want this sort of rape to stop?

One side says, "women should be able to walk down dark alleys at night in lounge wear and not get raped" The other side says, "Perhaps, but you're asking for trouble". The first side says, "RAPE APOLOGIST".

Exonerate the guy? I am saying we have no clue at all as to what happened.

This article gives us no reason to believe anything about anyone.

Exonerate the guy? I am not exonerating anything, but I am not getting involved in your lynch mob either.

My issue here is that the evidence that 10% of rape accusations are false to act like now 100% of them are false. She didn't go to the cops. No one's life is being ruined.


People's lives are ruined all of the time by false accusations of rape, sexual violence and domestic abuse.

Why are YOU being an apologizer for these gross violations of human decency?

So the tape shows I did nothing of the sort of what you accused me of, however, in turn, you did apologize and excuse and dismiss the actions that lead to the destruction of countless lives of men, women, and children.

And I think that's what really gets you.

You don't seem interested in hearing what two people did, you just want to protect and enhance the current favor towards women of our justice system, the power over men of false accusations, and the rewards the system gives to women who tell stories like these regardless of their truth.

bhcompy: Tell me how any of what you just said makes this story true?

because the piece of shiat who screwed her backed up her story.

bhcompy


Yeah. If you were raped too, I'm sorry. On behalf of the men who don't suck, I'm sorry.





/what a white knight might look like. In abstract.

My roomie's uncle's dad did some things to him that weren't so good, sexually speaking.

Statute of limitations passes, uncle cuts dad out of his life, moves on, whatev's. Has his own kids, does his own thing, deals with rape-as-child the best that he can.

He finds out his Dad is back to his old tricks, and has done something to roomie's cousin.

Shoots his Dad through the throat with a thirty-ought-six.

Two years in prison.

Justice enough, says I. Statute of limitations is well past. Uncle figures the jail time was well worth ridding the world of his dad.

tblax: MoronLessOff: tblax: bhcompy: Valarius: Ladies of Fark

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I'm sorry for the trauma you've endured. On behalf of the men who don't suck, I wish you a Happy Valentine's Day.

Only girls can be raped? I'm a male. By the textbook definition, I was raped by a female(and she stole my virginity). I said no, she said yes, then she sat on it. I told her to stop and she didn't.

Clearly something about that aroused you or it wouldn't have been possible.
Not rape
Troll or fool, cannot tell

I've been aroused with out wanting to go all the way. I don't see your point.

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The reason this is a troll image is because that doesn't make any sense.
Boner= you're into it

Obviously your wife/girlfriend never used sex to end an argument.

RoyBatty: People's lives are ruined all of the time by false accusations of rape, sexual violence and domestic abuse.

There. FTFY

equusdc: I pretty much stop believing either side of any story that begins with "so, we were getting drunk and high in this abandonded warehouse." More so, when it was fifteen years ago, more so still if that puts the supposed participants in high school. Glad they both seem to have cleaned up as adults. Beyond that, nothing...

pretty much. pretty much.

Blink: Good friend of mine got raped in college. She was a virgin, at the time (not that it really matters). She was at a party, wanted to go home, so she asked an acquaintance if he'd walk her home safely. He agreed, but on the way, he said he needed to stop by his dorm room for something. So, she followed him to his room, at which point he suddenly struck her and while she was dazed and nearly unconsious, proceeded to rape her.

She tried to continue going to the school, but she had a hard time functioning. Her coach (she played soccer) noticed her extreme personality shift and eventually pried the truth out of her. He then took steps to apprehend the rapist. The rapist just happened to be on the football team, and once the administration of this very Christian school got wind of what was coming down the pipes, they did everything they could to block the soccer coach from pursing the matter (I believe they threatened to fire him, though I'm not entirely sure of that).

It all ended with the football player getting a slap on the wrist, and told not to behave in such a manner. The girl was told the matter was taken care of. She left the school, of course -- a year later she tried to commit suicide. The fact that she didn't succeed is really shocking given what she did to make it happen.

Anyway, the girl would never tell me the boy's name that did all this to her. I'd've killed him, if I learned -- which is probably, at least in a small part, why she kept it a secret. The more likely reason is just that she didn't want to talk/re-live it.

/rapists should be castrated. I could really care less if that sounds barbaric.

A friend of mine said one of the guys in his dorm would cruise the halls after closing time, looking for girls that had passed out and forgot to lock their rooms.

They went to the RA, and while the bastard didn't go to jail, he was banned from campus housing.

PizzaJedi81: raping a 14 year old girl is at least an order of magnitude greater than stealing a car, though.

On the other hand, 13 is totally ok:



/ at least to the French, apparently

MoronLessOff: I've been aroused with out wanting to go all the way. I don't see your point.

He's an idiot and a troll.

Both men and women get aroused during rape. Men get erect. Women get wet.

It doesn't mean it wasn't rape.

Popular Opinion: bhcompy: Tell me how any of what you just said makes this story true?

because the piece of shiat who screwed her backed up her story.

And said he believed it was consensual. He said she said doesn't hold up as evidence, though it can get a plea because people would rather take a plea than have their life ruined by unsubstantiated accusations.

sheilanagig: bhcompy: Various states have romeo and juliet laws. In those cases, depending on the law, being underage doesn't mean anything if the other party is within the age range of the law. She couldn't consent to it and neither could the other party.

IF the contact is consensual, as in a relationship between a pair of teenagers. The Romeo and Juliet laws do not cover rape, even if it is carried out by someone under the age of consent. Try again.

It means that statutory rape might not apply