Got to love how if you dont immediately want to console the victim and strangle everyone else in these situations then you get called evil by all the "enlightened" among us. The bottom line here is: If you dont know by age 14 that putting yourself in a situation like this is inviting bad things to happen to you then you have more serious problems than getting raped.Thats not blaming the victim. Thats calling the victims judgement and sense of awareness into serious question, and in these cases thats fair. If I left my keys in the Ferrari I was driving and the engine running as I went in to get groceries in a bad area of town, do I deserve to get my car stolen? No. But how sorry for me are you going to feel when I tell you about it?

spidermilk: So sad. I cannot imagine ever having the strength to confront someone about that- sounds like a very brave woman.

Note to everyone:
Don't have sex with drunk people. Is that so hard? Wait until you aren't drunk. If you can't have sex without one or the other parties being drunk/high then deal with your problems.

Here's the problem: A LOT of people use intoxication as a way to justify their own sexual behavior. Maybe this is only a problem in conservative, Christian-dominated areas, but it's a HUGE issue where I live. I have encountered MANY women who have gone out drinking, gotten "drunk" off of a single rum and coke, and then slept with some guy (usually without protection). It's stupid. But the fact is that these women are not "drunk" - they're using alcohol as an excuse to justify the fact that they wanted to sleep with this guy.

When I would go out to get laid (back before I met the hubby), I would ALWAYS carry protection. I would find the guy I was interested in, approach him, ask him if he was interested in a one-night stand, and then go back to his place or a motel to fark. I might tell him my name, but I most certainly would NOT invite him back to my place. I wouldn't even get in his car. I would meet him at his place or a neutral location; that way, I had MY car and could leave whenever I wanted to. I always insisted on protection - it was never even up for questioning. And MY attitude makes me a "slut". Meanwhile, my friends are going out, getting drunk, getting in some guy's car (when the guy is even drunker), inviting the guy back to their place, and having unprotected sex (because if you carry condoms, you're obviously "expecting" it, which means it was pre-meditated), and (not surprisingly) contracting all sorts of STDs, and THEY'RE okay because "it just happened"? Or because, "I was so drunk I didn't know what I was doing"? Bullshiat.

Now, spidermilk, I agree with you. I have actually refused to have sex with a guy because he was drunk, because I couldn't feel safe with somebody who was intoxicated and may or may not be in full control of his faculties. And being female, he was a lot bigger & stronger than me, so I didn't want to run the risk that he would drunkenly disregard my personal boundaries. But the fact is that people DO frequently use alcohol as an excuse for sex, and until people can just admit that they want to get farked without all the games, misunderstandings and confusion are going to be the norm.

liam76: morgantx: My rapist tried to friend me on Facebook. I just ignored & blocked.

I ran into him about 3 years after the incident at a ballet class. I was TERRIFIED! He just said, "Are you still mad about what happened a few years ago? That wasn't any big thing." And that was it. That was the closest to an apology that I ever got.

Look, I'm not saying that what this guy did was right. It wasn't. But the fact is that he does actually seem remorseful about it, and he's apologizing about it, and that's more than most of us will ever get.

Ballet?

Not the hobby I expect from a rapist.

He was a football player with an injury. His coach forced him into ballet class to rehab his foot. I was a little shocked to see him there myself!

/Thanks to my sponsor for TF, BTW!
//You know who you are!
///Slashies!

The more you eat the more you fart: Thanks...i got that memo already. Perhaps a few women didnt.

Same with the men. This thread is about a woman being raped by a group of men, so that's the direction this discussion is taking. If you don't like that, you're not being forced to read.

14 year old skank gets so shiat-faced on drugs and booze that she blows 3 guys and farks one of them, but Troublesome Strumpet: People: No means no.

And "I was too shiat-faced to remember exactly what happened" means "reasonable doubt".

Did she say no? She thinks she might have, but SHE WAS TOO FARKING STONED to say for sure. Sorry, that you're not a credible witness. Don't be a drugged out little skank, and maybe you won't wind up blowing them all and farking one of them.

Doing something when you're stoned and then regretting it the morning after isn't rape, except in the masturbatory fantasies of feminazis who want to redefine any sex involving a penis as "rape".

Of course it's easier to justify YOUR lack of judgement to say "I was raped" instead of saying "I was a drugged out little slut who'd suck guys cocks if they got me high enough". Playing the rape card is a great way to absolve yourself of responsibility for your actions.

Lizardking: Got to love how if you dont immediately want to console the victim and strangle everyone else in these situations then you get called evil by all the "enlightened" among us. The bottom line here is: If you dont know by age 14 that putting yourself in a situation like this is inviting bad things to happen to you then you have more serious problems than getting raped.Thats not blaming the victim. Thats calling the victims judgement and sense of awareness into serious question, and in these cases thats fair. If I left my keys in the Ferrari I was driving and the engine running as I went in to get groceries in a bad area of town, do I deserve to get my car stolen? No. But how sorry for me are you going to feel when I tell you about it?

Does the thread get some sort prize for making the same false analogy over and over?

KiplingKat872: This wasn't even a story about hunting the guy down to throw in jail or revenge, but her courage and maturity in dealing with her past. That's why she did not give names. It was about her healing, not destroying him.So why are so many people ready to call her a liar?

Her story does not ring of honesty.

It rings with yet another templated story of girl heroism about the evilness of men as told to hip, edgy, online women's zine.

In that sense it seems commercial and exploitative and a story designed to gain attention for her actions as opposed to generate insightful dialogue about what happened 15 years prior and its relevancy today.

Part and parcel of that is the continuation of threads like this where women and some men will just stand there and insist "no means no, always", "women bear no responsibility for their choices", "and if you disagree you are farking stupid and should not go outside without a handler you dumb farking rape apologizing ugly psycho."

mgshamster: ChuDogg: What you are describing is a "freeze out " among the pickup artists. Think about, guys that routinely debate the best was to casually score chicks with no romantic involvement: have a word for it.

Holy fark. That's some seriously effed up shiat.

So doing exactly what a woman asks for is "seriously effed up shiat"?

Or are you just noting the irony in the way these guys talk about doing it.

Just to be clear for anybody following this convo: we're talking about a girl saying "no", and the guy listening and calling off the sexual interaction.

The topic of 'rape' appears to be the 'off switch' of the human brain. Good to know.

Going to a pool when u cant swim, driving a car at high speed in the rain, going to a bar and causing a fight, selling drugs, and a female who admittedly craves sexual attention going to a secluded place with a bunch of guys are all profoundly stupid.

However, only in the last circumstance are the choices made by the victim not taken into account.

rubi_con_man: Julie Cochrane: The second time was the time I did everything right. I was in a place and situation that should have been completely safe with a partner who should have been completely safe and I had said in advance, "You absolutely cannot put that appendage in that orifice that way. (dry)" He did it anyway---penetrated. It hurt like bloody hell. He pulled out when I cried out to stop. But I had told him "no" in no uncertain terms and he did it anyway. He shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Wait, you think that being raped by multiple people, beaten, left for dead, bound and gagged is the moral equivalent of your boyfriend sticking the tip of his dick a quarter-inch into your arse when you've made it a no-go zone?

Wow. Yeah, um, you need to stop calling this rape. This is your BF being an ass. I know women who were drugged and left on the side of a highway naked. I know women who were impregnated by babysitters. I know women who were bludgeoned by their spouse into unconsciousness. THEY were raped. You made an error in judgement and let your BF be an arse.

// if you start calling every single thing a guy does in any way that isn't worshipful of you and your vagina 'rape'
/// you're gonna lock up a lot of men.

Don't want him locked up.

And no, not quarter inch, half his dick in my dry butt. When he had an absolutely, emphatically clear "NO."

(Just for reference, when people say "penetration" they usually mean "head inserted," not externally knocking on the door.)

He did it.

And no, it is not the moral equivalent of getting beaten, left for dead, bound and gagged, etc.

Those things are all presented to the jury in a rape trial as aggravating factors. The actual issue of fact at trial is penetration. Did it/didn't it occur. That's the crux of the act that defines the crime itself.

In my case, the matter is settled. I ended the relationship. What happens to him is between him and whatever higher power there may be.

The PTSD from not being safe when and where I should have been absolutely safe? Yeah, that lingers on. Fortunately, the treatments for PTSD have come a long way from what they used to be, but for close to two years I was afraid everywhere, all the time.

clyph: 14 year old skank gets so shiat-faced on drugs and booze that she blows 3 guys and farks one of them, but Troublesome Strumpet: People: No means no.

And "I was too shiat-faced to remember exactly what happened" means "reasonable doubt".

Did she say no? She thinks she might have, but SHE WAS TOO FARKING STONED to say for sure. Sorry, that you're not a credible witness. Don't be a drugged out little skank, and maybe you won't wind up blowing them all and farking one of them.

Doing something when you're stoned and then regretting it the morning after isn't rape, except in the masturbatory fantasies of feminazis who want to redefine any sex involving a penis as "rape".

Of course it's easier to justify YOUR lack of judgement to say "I was raped" instead of saying "I was a drugged out little slut who'd suck guys cocks if they got me high enough". Playing the rape card is a great way to absolve yourself of responsibility for your actions.

And there's the mysoginst's Gowin's law....

The My Little Pony Killer: The more you eat the more you fart: Thanks...i got that memo already. Perhaps a few women didnt.

Same with the men. This thread is about a woman being raped by a group of men, so that's the direction this discussion is taking. If you don't like that, you're not being forced to read.

No...im not. But neither are you if you dont like what i say.

Flagg99: namatad: so yes, she ONLY dated abusers. abusers have GREAT skills at picking out victims.
they are so nice and helpful and then BOOM ... back to the same old story ..

thank god I found the best shrink ever who taught me all I need to know
"it is not my problem"
you can help
you can be supportive
but in the end, it is her problem
and she will or will not fix it

/alas and thank god - she moved on so she really isnt my problem.

Sorry but - it's time to take your friend's stories with a grain of salt. It really does sound like sex she regrets. People can indeed work themselves up into a frenzy with physical symptoms. In an earlier post I relayed a story of a friend of mine who was "raped" where even she didn't fully agree, and refused to cooperate with charges against the guy, because they were both drunk.

Well I have another friend who sounds a lot like yours. And between this friend, and one other girl who blatantly lied about rape to get out of admitting to cheating on her BF, it became a real eye opener as to how the word "rape" is used as a weapon.

This girl claims to have been raped - wait for it - 19 times. 19! Every time you talk to her, the number gets a little higher. Because it's pretty much the number of guys shes slept with. And every time one pisses her off, suddenly he's a rapist.

I specifically lost contact with this girl just to be safe; the friendship just was not worth it. But let me tell you - before all this happened, she was trying to get in my pants, and the same can be said of the other guys. It wasn't abusers choosing her, she was choosing guys. And one or two of them were legitimately abusive (borderline) but she would run right out and do that same thing. To the extent where, after ranting on about how she was "not a whore and no one's property" one night she tried giving me a strip tease moments after.

Beyond that, she could seem just as traumatized, and is even on meds for it. She's been to therapy, dropped out of school, and when we first met, I felt a lot of sympathy for her. Then I saw her in action. She would aggressively initiate sexual contact with guys then later claim rape when things didn't turn out the way she wanted it. She saw no problem with it, and was basically a serial victim, only it was a complete sham.

I get that there may have been an initial event that triggered this behaviour - but years or decades later, it is simple not acceptable to allow it to continue and use the past as an excuse.

So yeah, again - take that friend with a grain of salt. One thing I've noticed is that girls like this love a "nice guy" in their lives because they feed off sympathy.


bearsrepeating.jpg

Fact:

The only consent is enthusiastic consent.

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Occam's Nailfile: Do women feel that they have any responsibility at all to avoid encouraging situations that could lead to them being assaulted?

Reading thread to see the answer to this...

Women can't win in this regard. We're stuck-up, paranoid, non-fun having prudes or we're rape-deserving, skanky whores.

//are all men so dangerous that we should only leave the house with an escort? I know, how about a garment that covers us up completely head to toe, I bet that would stop rape.
///I need to stop reading Fark rape threads.

blondski: All of these comments from women make me wonder if any woman makes it through life with out some sort of creepy ass touching them with out consent.

Honestly, many of us just get to the point where we barely even notice that sort of thing anymore.

I remember being out with my husband one day at a family buffet restaurant with our three kids. Some 40-something-year-old Mexican dude came up behind me on the line, put both of his hands on my hips, and thrust his groin into my butt. I just brushed his hands away and went on about my business, and my husband happened to look up to see me walking away from the guy with an angry look on my face while the guy was chuckling. So when I sat back down he asked me what happened, and I told him. And I was SHOCKED to see the look of rage in his face. I think he would've killed the guy if I hadn't stopped him.

Didn't make it much better when I told him that sort of thing happens a lot, but it does. I've had my breasts, butt, and even crotch grabbed while filling up the car with gas, shopping for groceries, or standing in line at a fast food place. I never really thought much of it until I saw my husband's reaction to it; I always just kind of thought that was normal male behavior.

RoyBatty: women bear no responsibility for their choices

Who said this? Ever?

This seems to be the logic of the "apologists." Don't condemn the rapist until you've thoroughly acknowledged that she made bad choices. In fact, maybe only give a back handed "bad boy" to the rapist while writing a soliloquy on the shiatty choices she made. No one is even remotely claiming the 14 year-old girl was not acting responsibly. Not a single person said "hey, totally reasonable she went and did that." The fact that this should in any way exonerate her attackers is really the weird thing here. And if you aren't saying that to exonerate them, why are you and others constantly bringing it up?

My issue here is that the evidence that 10% of rape accusations are false to act like now 100% of them are false. She didn't go to the cops. No one's life is being ruined.

KiplingKat872: I am not sure why you are yelling at me about this.

I'm not yelling.

This is a very weighty issue. About 40 pounds' worth, I'd say.

RoyBatty: KiplingKat872: This wasn't even a story about hunting the guy down to throw in jail or revenge, but her courage and maturity in dealing with her past. That's why she did not give names. It was about her healing, not destroying him.So why are so many people ready to call her a liar?

Her story does not ring of honesty.

It rings with yet another templated story of girl heroism about the evilness of men as told to hip, edgy, online women's zine.

In that sense it seems commercial and exploitative and a story designed to gain attention for her actions as opposed to generate insightful dialogue about what happened 15 years prior and its relevancy today.

Part and parcel of that is the continuation of threads like this where women and some men will just stand there and insist "no means no, always", "women bear no responsibility for their choices", "and if you disagree you are farking stupid and should not go outside without a handler you dumb farking rape apologizing ugly psycho."

Well, if people had discussed the long term emotional effects of rape, treatment, healing, and moving on, it could have been an intelligent and informative discussion.

Instead it turned into "biatches be lyin" and rape surivors who step forward are...I don't even know what to call ExperianScaresChulthulu's psycotic rant and "if you think this is rape, you're a feminazi who equates all sex with rape" nonsense.

The lack of rationality did not come from one side.

Tak the Hideous New Girl: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Occam's Nailfile: Do women feel that they have any responsibility at all to avoid encouraging situations that could lead to them being assaulted?

Reading thread to see the answer to this...

Women can't win in this regard. We're stuck-up, paranoid, non-fun having prudes or we're rape-deserving, skanky whores.

//are all men so dangerous that we should only leave the house with an escort? I know, how about a garment that covers us up completely head to toe, I bet that would stop rape.
///I need to stop reading Fark rape threads.

No, no it wouldn't. If men will rape a 62-year-old grandmother, they'll rape a woman in a burqa.

And in fairness, I've been groped in public while wearing something like this:


/Linked like it's hot

morgantx: blondski: All of these comments from women make me wonder if any woman makes it through life with out some sort of creepy ass touching them with out consent.

Honestly, many of us just get to the point where we barely even notice that sort of thing anymore.

I remember being out with my husband one day at a family buffet restaurant with our three kids. Some 40-something-year-old Mexican dude came up behind me on the line, put both of his hands on my hips, and thrust his groin into my butt. I just brushed his hands away and went on about my business, and my husband happened to look up to see me walking away from the guy with an angry look on my face while the guy was chuckling. So when I sat back down he asked me what happened, and I told him. And I was SHOCKED to see the look of rage in his face. I think he would've killed the guy if I hadn't stopped him.

Didn't make it much better when I told him that sort of thing happens a lot, but it does. I've had my breasts, butt, and even crotch grabbed while filling up the car with gas, shopping for groceries, or standing in line at a fast food place. I never really thought much of it until I saw my husband's reaction to it; I always just kind of thought that was normal male behavior.

No, it's not normal. Get out of Texas.

Bathia_Mapes: She said, "No, let's stop" at least once. That's all that's necessary. It doesn't matter if she was drunk/stoned/whatever, she said NO!


NO MEANS NO!!!

That is 100% correct. And at that point, the man bears responsibility for what happens. Who bears what % of the responsibility for what happens leading up to that point requires full disclosure of all details.

morgantx: Tak the Hideous New Girl: ExperianScaresCthulhu: Occam's Nailfile: Do women feel that they have any responsibility at all to avoid encouraging situations that could lead to them being assaulted?

Reading thread to see the answer to this...

Women can't win in this regard. We're stuck-up, paranoid, non-fun having prudes or we're rape-deserving, skanky whores.

//are all men so dangerous that we should only leave the house with an escort? I know, how about a garment that covers us up completely head to toe, I bet that would stop rape.
///I need to stop reading Fark rape threads.

No, no it wouldn't. If men will rape a 62-year-old grandmother, they'll rape a woman in a burqa.

And in fairness, I've been groped in public while wearing something like this:

[www.plainlydressed.com image 105x300]
/Linked like it's hot

Bullshiat. You people can't have electricity.

I just had the most adorable vision of an Amish computer being powered by team of little hamsters running in their wheels to power the generators.

ChuDogg: No, it's not normal. Get out of Texas.

Oh, and I read this comment before looking at your handle and or profile, and my first thought was "She has to be from Texas... "

ChuDogg: mgshamster: ChuDogg: What you are describing is a "freeze out " among the pickup artists. Think about, guys that routinely debate the best was to casually score chicks with no romantic involvement: have a word for it.

Holy fark. That's some seriously effed up shiat.

So doing exactly what a woman asks for is "seriously effed up shiat"?

Or are you just noting the irony in the way these guys talk about doing it.

Just to be clear for anybody following this convo: we're talking about a girl saying "no", and the guy listening and calling off the sexual interaction.

It's effed up in that it's a "technique" or "weapon" for a pick-up artist to use in order to get laid by a girl who might not otherwise be comfortable.

From the link: "Freeze-outs are one of the most powerful, but hardest to apply, weapons in your PUA arsenal."

They're not stopping out of respect for another human; they're stopping because they think it'll boost their own image and increase the chance of getting laid the next time around. It's just a long-term psychological game. That is what is effed up.

rocky_howard: JesusJuice: Peki: Good for her. I'm glad she got some closure. It can be important for things like this. I didn't react the same.

However, my situation was a little different. I can clearly remember everything, and it wasn't a one-off thing like hers was. He contacted me after I got back in town. I remember telling him I had forgiven him for everything he'd done (considering the last few years of my life, that's actually one of the easier things I've dealt with), but that I was simply too swamped with life to explore a friendship with him. I haven't heard from him since, and I hope I don't. I've made the decision to be welcoming and friendly to him, even if he steps foot in my church, though I may have a word with a few of the parents.

This is one of the stupider things I've ever read.

Hey, don't say that. Peki has the right to be friendly with him and you're not who to criticize her.

That said, Peki, dear, you're way too submissive with men. I've read other things by you during the years on Fark. Try to stand up to the guys that hurt you. They'd probably stop doing it if you do.

Yeah, and I have a right think wanting to be friendly with him makes her either a moron or just pathetic.

RaceBoatDriver: ExperianScaresCthulhu: RaceBoatDriver: FanotherFA written by the same author:
I didnt talk about rape at all back then, because I didn't have the vocabulary. Each time that it happened to me, I felt that extenuating circumstances kept it from truly being rape. He was my boyfriend, I was drunk, I got in the car. I never believed that I had fought hard enough.

eyebrow

/link?
// there's a reason

Here it is, fifth paragraph...
http://www.xojane.com/issues/why-i-talk-about-rape

Not trying to belittle rape, but to build an identify on it, and claim multiple rapes, seems a little off. She also wrote an article about the reactions she got to "Sexy biatch" temporary BOOBIE tattoos. That article can be found here:
http://www.xojane.com/fun/tatatoos-breast-temporary-tattoos.

That's not to say she was "asking for it." More along the lines of "she likes attention."

Thank you for the link. Why do people do this?

ChuDogg: morgantx: blondski: All of these comments from women make me wonder if any woman makes it through life with out some sort of creepy ass touching them with out consent.

Honestly, many of us just get to the point where we barely even notice that sort of thing anymore.

I remember being out with my husband one day at a family buffet restaurant with our three kids. Some 40-something-year-old Mexican dude came up behind me on the line, put both of his hands on my hips, and thrust his groin into my butt. I just brushed his hands away and went on about my business, and my husband happened to look up to see me walking away from the guy with an angry look on my face while the guy was chuckling. So when I sat back down he asked me what happened, and I told him. And I was SHOCKED to see the look of rage in his face. I think he would've killed the guy if I hadn't stopped him.

Didn't make it much better when I told him that sort of thing happens a lot, but it does. I've had my breasts, butt, and even crotch grabbed while filling up the car with gas, shopping for groceries, or standing in line at a fast food place. I never really thought much of it until I saw my husband's reaction to it; I always just kind of thought that was normal male behavior.

No, it's not normal. Get out of Texas.

That's actually what angered my husband the most, was the fact that I thought it WAS normal behavior. The fact that it was SO ubiquitous. It had started happening to me when I was about 14, actually. And the fact that it happened to all my friends. And none of us ever stopped to say, "Maybe these guys shouldn't be groping us without our permission!" That angered him more than the behavior itself - the fact that I was so de-sensitized to it to just think that was the type of thing that happened when you weren't paying attention to your surroundings. AND the fact that most of my friends thought the same thing. I called up one of my friends that night to tell her about the incident, and she said, "I don't get why he was getting so worked up about it. It's not like it's that unusual." And THAT is the real problem.

morgantx: No, no it wouldn't. men will rape a 62-year-old grandmother, & every day men rape women in a burqas.

And in fairness, I've been groped in public while wearing something like this:

Covered is sexy.

gulogulo: RoyBatty: women bear no responsibility for their choices

Who said this? Ever?

I suggest you read this thread. Plenty of people are pointing out the story has holes in it, that all people admit they were out of their heads, the guy felt he was being coerced in to it, she admits to not putting up a fight. And she wasn't really sure she was raped until she'd had time to think about. Yet the wymon in this thread are all for putting the guys head on a pike and any mention that, perhaps, both of them are victims gets you on their ignore list and/or a torrent of abuse.

So in answer to your question: Right here, Right now.

mgshamster: They're not stopping out of respect for another human; they're stopping because they think it'll boost their own image and increase the chance of getting laid the next time around. It's just a long-term psychological game. That is what is effed up.

It is a psychological game. We are 100% agreement on that. The only thing we disagree on is who are the ones that are playing it.

gulogulo: RoyBatty: women bear no responsibility for their choices

Who said this? Ever?


No one says that, but it is the logical conclusion to the gray rape scenario all over the net a couple of years ago: two people at a party, both get so drunk they can't remember what happened, but she and he are both in bed, so she insists she was raped. And when that happened, most of the feminists insisted there is no gray rape, it is just rape.

The odd result is that feminists from Salon to Jezebel to Feministing all insist that it is the man's job to protect the woman since the woman, once drunk, cannot be held responsible for her actions.

It's a patronizing, condescending, infantilizing conclusion, but it's the one adopted by many feminists.


This seems to be the logic of the "apologists." Don't condemn the rapist until you've thoroughly acknowledged that she made bad choices. In fact, maybe only give a back handed "bad boy" to the rapist while writing a soliloquy on the shiatty choices she made.

Um, no, this is now just you speech policing and bullying the thread. If we are having a conversation then none of us are rape apologists.

PERIOD.

Just describing anyone that disagrees with you as a rape apologist is rude and dishonest.

Please stop that and apologize.


My issue here is that the evidence that 10% of rape accusations are false to act like now 100% of them are false. She didn't go to the cops. No one's life is being ruined.

My life was ruined by false accusations that a court psychologist knew were false.

There is plenty of testimonial evidence in this thread, and in real life cases, that women (and men) will lie about sex in order to use the resulting societal reaction to game and destroy their opponent.

s2s2s2: morgantx: No, no it wouldn't. men will rape a 62-year-old grandmother, & every day men rape women in a burqas.

And in fairness, I've been groped in public while wearing something like this:

Covered is sexy.

I once saw a stripper start her routine in something like this. The crowd went WILD!

Just so you know, this article was originally posted here: http://www.xojane.com/sex/my-rapist-friended-me-facebook-and-all-i-go t -was-lousy-article (new window), and was actually written by Emily, instead of some chick who felt like building almost an entire post out of quotes and only using a tiny "source" link at the bottom as attribution.

Bathia_Mapes: She said, "No, let's stop" at least once. That's all that's necessary. It doesn't matter if she was drunk/stoned/whatever, she said NO!

NO MEANS NO!!!

True story....

I met a girl online. We chatted. We decided to meet up. Our First date.....We started messing around. I went to remove her pants and she said 'No'. She didn't mean it. We hooked up. We started dating. We moved in together. We got married. We've been together for six years now.

She's since told me she said no because 'I dunno, I didn't want to seem easy'.

No means maybe!

Most of the girls I'd met online seemed cool online, then we'd have our first date and realize we weren't right for each other. I had that happen several times. When you have very little invested in a person, and very little history with them, it's really easy to walk away. It's easy to never see them again. It's possible that, had I taken 'no' to mean 'no' I wouldn't be married to the woman I am. Truthfully, up until us messing around, it was a nothing special, awkward, first-date.

Duke Lacrosse Team

that

is

all.

ChuDogg: mgshamster: They're not stopping out of respect for another human; they're stopping because they think it'll boost their own image and increase the chance of getting laid the next time around. It's just a long-term psychological game. That is what is effed up.

It is a psychological game. We are 100% agreement on that. The only thing we disagree on is who are the ones that are playing it.

jtfx: One thing that I always baffled me about rape, is how does the guy get it in? Dry vagina seems like that would be impossible? Does it get wet even when the owner doesn't want any parts of what is happening?


A little spit can do wonders.

/remember that for when you start dating women who are older.

sarah_t_s: gulogulo: RoyBatty: women bear no responsibility for their choices

Who said this? Ever?

I suggest you read this thread. Plenty of people are pointing out the story has holes in it, that all people admit they were out of their heads, the guy felt he was being coerced in to it, she admits to not putting up a fight. And she wasn't really sure she was raped until she'd had time to think about. Yet the wymon in this thread are all for putting the guys head on a pike and any mention that, perhaps, both of them are victims gets you on their ignore list and/or a torrent of abuse.

So in answer to your question: Right here, Right now.

Christ. First of all, I've read this entire thread and no one is saying she's absolved of responsibility. That's what my beef was why so many people are saying she has to take responsibility for her actions without there being any one, not a single person in htis thread, who has said she acted responsibility. Its a straw man argument.

Second of all, if you are going to use the pejorative (as I'm assuming that's why you continue to misspell it as some reference to feminazis who I have yet to see in this thread), it's womyn. Wymon sounds like you're some whiny Rastafarian.

skoobx: Oh boy, I know some will get mad at this but.....

If she is unclear whether she was raped or not, how can he be sure if it was rape? I am not defending this guy, but it seems as though he may not have been exactly sober either. Is it ok for her to be so messed up that she can't be sure what happened, but he must be completely accountable even if he was just as inebriated? There are just too many things about this story that don't seem to paint the while picture. I get that he admitted she said stop several times. But she may have been having buyers remorse, but then she may have pulled him closer, our lifted her hips. Now, if it was me, I'm done as soon as she says no. No matter what. But I can see where a young man might get confused about a girl visibly showing signs of continuing intercourse, but saying no. Especially after she just blew two of my friends. Before you flame, I'm not saying it's right. It obviously was a horrible event for the girl. But as teenagers, we all make very horrible decisions. Some in here have said that it is rape if an underage person is under the influence. But if the boys were underage too, we can't expect them to make the greatest decisions ever either. There is just way too much missing in this story to declare anyone involved as rapists. At least in this article.
Glad she could find some closure though.

The easiest way for me to make sense out of something like this is to say yes, she was raped.

And then look at the boy involved and say, he was underage and as a juvenile had diminished judgment.

I mean, figure you're out in the woods with a close friend and your friend gets shot and it's an evil murderer, and your friend dies horribly in front of you and get wounded---you survive, but you're horribly traumatized and your friend is dead.

Now, figure the same situation, only instead of an evil murderer, it's some guy and it's either a tragic accident or the guy has some degree of negligence or malice that gives him some degree of culpability less than murder. Your friend still dies horribly in front of you and you get wounded--you survive. You are still horribly traumatized and your friend is dead.

The effect on you, as the surviving victim, is exactly the same in both cases.

The treatment for you, as the surviving victim, is exactly the same.

The difference is in the degree of guilt of the guy who fired the shots.

The injury to the victim here is rape.

The culpability of the man, then a boy, is very uncertain. And not relevant to the recovery of the victim.

They're two separate things.

morgantx: blondski: All of these comments from women make me wonder if any woman makes it through life with out some sort of creepy ass touching them with out consent.

Honestly, many of us just get to the point where we barely even notice that sort of thing anymore.

I remember being out with my husband one day at a family buffet restaurant with our three kids. Some 40-something-year-old Mexican dude came up behind me on the line, put both of his hands on my hips, and thrust his groin into my butt. I just brushed his hands away and went on about my business, and my husband happened to look up to see me walking away from the guy with an angry look on my face while the guy was chuckling. So when I sat back down he asked me what happened, and I told him. And I was SHOCKED to see the look of rage in his face. I think he would've killed the guy if I hadn't stopped him.

Didn't make it much better when I told him that sort of thing happens a lot, but it does. I've had my breasts, butt, and even crotch grabbed while filling up the car with gas, shopping for groceries, or standing in line at a fast food place. I never really thought much of it until I saw my husband's reaction to it; I always just kind of thought that was normal male behavior.

What the fark is wrong with the world where groping strangers at a family buffet has become the status quo. If that is "normal male behavior," then I am clearly doing it wrong.

Lets just get the no means no stuff out of the way, and the rape is bad stuff. I'm with ya. I'm not trying to defend the guy, I don't want it read that way.

I don't get the impression from the article that the intercourse with D and the warehouse gang blowjob thing were things that happened at the same time. They talked about the warehouse, she didn't remember a lot about that. Then he seemed to change the subject to talking about the time they had sex... it sounded like she remembered that a lot clearer.

Not that it really matters, but I'm having a hard time working through the sequence of events.

I do think that I'm probably just going to close the window and forget that this article exists... I've gotten nothing from it

gulogulo: it's womyn.

It's a bullshiat word, I give it no countenance and spell it however I wish.

That this offends you pleases me greatly.

Julie Cochrane:
The next day when I complained, he got a "how do I get out of this one" expression and then told me that since I wasn't male and didn't have a penis I didn't know how difficult it was sometimes to know which orifice you were in.

I couldn't believe what the hell I just heard. "In?" I echoed. "Don't you mean at?"

"No, in." He insisted.

It took a bit for the emotional numbness to wear off and my bullshiat detector to finally override my denial, but I finally broke things off.

I'm not defending the guy you mention, but it's possible to slip into the wrong hole and not notice a difference by touch alone. That's doubly true if there is a condom involved. Again, not saying that what he did was an accident, just that it's not automatically BS (and I'm not commenting on the rape-y-ness, this is strictly off-topic.)

I would've called BS too, except it's evidently happened to me. My wife is into anal, but I make a point to always ask first and then I take it slow. One night after we finished up what I thought was vaginal sex, she says to me that she'd never been farked in the ass so hard before, but enjoyed it. At some point I slipped out and continued in the wrong hole without missing a beat or even noticing (obviously she didn't say anything). My response was "Anal? What?", and then she's confused, maintaining that it's not even the first time I've switched without asking. Evidently I don't always notice if I go in the out-door. And that's even without condoms, my wife and I don't even use them when it's just us.

If you don't slow down, I suppose both places feel about the same to a guy so long as there is enough residual KY or natural lube on him. The difference in texture gets lost once he's pounding away.

jtfx: One thing that I always baffled me about rape, is how does the guy get it in? Dry vagina seems like that would be impossible? Does it get wet even when the owner doesn't want any parts of what is happening?

Rape is generally a biological turn-on for the woman being raped. Around 10% of the time, women who are being "really raped" ie fighting and screaming still have an orgasm. This aspect is what farks with their minds when they recall the event.

Chicks dig jerks, especially alpha males who just throw-down and shag whom they please.