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(Some Guy)   Woman receives Facebook friend request from the man who raped her when she was 14 years old. She gets the hero tag for how she handled it   (moxiebird.com) divider line 1264
    More: Hero, rape victims, Facebook, electronic publishing, friend request  
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66117 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Feb 2012 at 10:49 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-05 02:28:10 PM
serial_crusher

/ Dammit, now I've got that Seinfeld bit stuck in my head. "When I was a kid, I thought Gun Point was an actual place in a bad neighborhood where crimes happened. I kept hearing on the news, 'woman raped at Gun Point', 'three people robbed at Gun Point', and I just kept asking myself, 'why do people even go there?'"

LOL, you just inadvertently outed yourself as someone who watched Friends.

/then again so did I. Dammit.
 
2012-02-05 02:28:49 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: the only constant is that she was underaged. she gets a statutory rape accusation. but the rest don't stick.


It appears they were underaged as well. From the article, it seemed like they were friends prior to the incident.
 
2012-02-05 02:29:56 PM

F42: Troublesome Strumpet: People: No means no.

I was kissing a girl, she says (feebly) "no, stop" and pushes me away; I stop; she goes (angrily) "why did you stop!?!?!!" and pulls me back.

So, no, "no" doesn't always mean no, and lying about that is preventing 0 rapes.


No. . . in that case, the girl was crazy and you should have farking run. The rest of that sentence. . . I can't even tell WTF you're trying to get at.
 
2012-02-05 02:30:10 PM
This story seems sketchy. Then again, I've had a friend falsely accused of rape, so maybe I'm looking at it from the wrong angle. In that circumstance, the accuser changed her story several times, then eventually said it was all a fabrication. AFTER my buddy was put in jail and lost his job.

I've had some farked up shiat happen to me in my life, and I still remember the situations of those scenarios. Do I remember all the details? No. But I do remember what was happening and what I was doing.

1) No means no.
2) Falsifying a rape should have the same penalty as rape
3) Teach your children to stay away from bad situations and to always have a friend with them
 
2012-02-05 02:32:51 PM

HellRaisingHoosier: This story seems sketchy. Then again, I've had a friend falsely accused of rape, so maybe I'm looking at it from the wrong angle. In that circumstance, the accuser changed her story several times, then eventually said it was all a fabrication. AFTER my buddy was put in jail and lost his job.

I've had some farked up shiat happen to me in my life, and I still remember the situations of those scenarios. Do I remember all the details? No. But I do remember what was happening and what I was doing.

1) No means no.
2) Falsifying a rape should have the same penalty as rape
3) Teach your children to stay away from bad situations and to always have a friend with them


I've had a friend falsely accused to, when the girl's boyfriend found out she was cheating on him. Cost him about $3k in legal fees and his job (they were coworkers), but she eventually admitted to the investigators that it was consentual.
 
2012-02-05 02:33:56 PM
I never understood why people falsely accused of rape, then exonerated of the charges dont turn around and sue the everloving SHIAT out of the person who falsely accused them.

It would be a slam dunk win.
 
2012-02-05 02:34:18 PM
This is going to sound horrible, and people are going to call me a troll (or a rapist). But I think we really need to work on educating *WOMEN* on what 'No' means. And I'm really being 100% serious here.

Growing up, I was told 'No means no' in school and I even believed it. It wasn't until my awkward make-out sessions that I learned 'No means maybe'. And it's been reinforced by many girls through-out the years. Without getting to graphic, the pattern is typically, 'We are doing X' and I try to progress to 'X+1' and the girl says 'no' or moves my hand or pulls away in some fashion. So I stop and go back to doing 'X'. Fast forward 15-30 minutes and the girl moves by hand BACK or does the thing I was trying to do, herself.

It doesn't take that happening very often to learn that 'no' doesn't really mean no. After a while, you think, 'Okay, I tried X+1 and she gently moved my hand away, so she probably is cool with X+1 and just doesn't want me to think she's easy....I'll try it again in 10 minutes and see how it goes.' Then, you do that a few times and realize, girls are cool with that.

I've since talked to some girls about this, including my wife. Apparently, the female mind is quite complicated/conflicted/whatever. For some, there is a fear of being 'too easy' and somehow saying 'no' helps them avoid that. Or, for some, 'no' really just means, 'Not quite yet'. In at least one case, 'No' meant, 'I feel guilty because I have a boyfriend; but if you try again in a few minutes I'll let you'.

Now, I'm not talking about a girl who forcefully says 'No'. And, again, I have zero desire to actually rape or assault anyone; so even with my belief that 'no doesn't always mean no' I'm not precluding the possibility that sometimes, 'No means no'. But whenever I hear an account of rape that involves a girl lightly protesting verbally, once, and then going along with it - I'm really concerned. Thankfully, I'm married now and this is a non-issue for me; but it's really a minefield for people actively dating and meeting new people. It's the same concept as the boy who cried wolf....
 
2012-02-05 02:35:02 PM

AndreMA: namatad: good friend was raped by 3 different boyfriends over the last 5 years. she did not report any of them. she isnt even close to getting better and suffers from massive PTSD.

It sounds like your friend is either the unluckiest person on earth, has a new relationship every month, is a very poor judge of character in her potential boyfriends, or is inappropriately labeling "sex i regret later" as "rape"

Perhaps there's a fifth alternative, but I don't see it.


Unhealthy people tend to get into relationships with unhealthy people. It's a common and complex phenomenon. Victims attract victimizers and vice versa. It's like gaydar.
 
2012-02-05 02:35:02 PM
Hi There.

While I haven't read any of the previous 450 posts in this thread, I can be sure that no controversial alternative views on the rape have been advanced.

/carry on
 
2012-02-05 02:35:21 PM

lohphat: F42: Troublesome Strumpet: People: No means no.

I was kissing a girl, she says (feebly) "no, stop" and pushes me away; I stop; she goes (angrily) "why did you stop!?!?!!" and pulls me back.

So, no, "no" doesn't always mean no, and lying about that is preventing 0 rapes.

This is why I'm single. I'm tired of the games.

Tell. Me. What. You. Want. From. Me. You. Psychotic. Silly. Person.


Oh sure. That's why you're single. Ever wonder why the only people you attract are the psychos?
 
2012-02-05 02:35:55 PM

Teen Wolf Blitzer: HellRaisingHoosier: This story seems sketchy. Then again, I've had a friend falsely accused of rape, so maybe I'm looking at it from the wrong angle. In that circumstance, the accuser changed her story several times, then eventually said it was all a fabrication. AFTER my buddy was put in jail and lost his job.

I've had some farked up shiat happen to me in my life, and I still remember the situations of those scenarios. Do I remember all the details? No. But I do remember what was happening and what I was doing.

1) No means no.
2) Falsifying a rape should have the same penalty as rape
3) Teach your children to stay away from bad situations and to always have a friend with them

I've had a friend falsely accused to, when the girl's boyfriend found out she was cheating on him. Cost him about $3k in legal fees and his job (they were coworkers), but she eventually admitted to the investigators that it was consentual.


Then he should have sued her for slander and/or libel...and should be charged with filing a false claim by the cops.
 
2012-02-05 02:36:20 PM

KiplingKat872: skoobx: Primum: Jesus I can't believe how many rape-a-pologists are on here. Alcohol/drugs, age, dress, etc. ARE NOT mitigating factors. Rape is rape is rape.

Of course this website is infested with Assburger social retreads so I'm not surprised in the least there are rape-a-pologists here.

I haven't seem a lot of apologists. I've seen a lot of "we don't have the full farking story here."

It's just really farking sad the number of people here who read that story (or DRTFA), and instead of being impressed with her courage, marturity, and forgiveness, immediately leapt to "biatches be lyin'."

And we wonder why this is still such a huge problem in our "enlightened society."


I never said she was lying. I said the details were sketchy. As she even admits. She never deserved what happened. But there are three sides to every story. His side, her side, and the truth.
 
2012-02-05 02:36:46 PM

KiplingKat872: Gee, because I am a rape survivor,


I am too, but I am also honest enough with myself to know that getting into a swimming pool naked with an older, larger boy that said he wanted to try something like sex he heard about has just as much relevance to what happened next as his continuing when I decided I was suddenly extremely certain of my heterosexuality and wanted it to stop immediately.

I learned not to get into questionable situations with people who could easily over power me. This has kept me pretty safe and sound. So getting mad at people suggesting that people(because it applies to men too) can make themselves safer from people that don't respect the rights of other people is going to ensure rapes continue. So let's be clear. Refusing to allow for personal responsibility is inadvertently supporting rapes. Not the concept of rape, just actual rapes.
 
2012-02-05 02:37:38 PM

Troublesome Strumpet: You're seriously farking stupid."No means no" when it comes to sex because it is a violation of someone elses' bodily integrity. That's why rape, murder and assault are crimes.The reason few people were taught that no means no before a certain point in time is because women and children were considered property until only last century (in most Western countries anyway).There's room for negotiations in other situations because in those situations, you're not trying to physically harm another person against their will. That is the difference between trying to ask a boss for a raise and trying to violate someone's sense of self and safety for your own selfish desires.If you can't tell the difference, maybe you shouldn't be allowed outside without a handler.


I think we agree, no doesn't mean no, no is contextual.

Can you pinpoint to me the time and place in the US in which boys and girls, men and women, cutlure adopted what you claim is the new position that "no means no always"

Even in this thread, it's clear there are relatively young farkers men and women who do not think that's true.

Also, there is a difference between kissing and murder. There's a difference between a playful exploration and murder.

"he reason few people were taught that no means no before a certain point in time is because women and children were considered property until only last century "

So what are you saying, 1965 when that Star Trek episode was made? 1975, 1985, 1995, 2005?

When did Western Culture move to the new standard, and can you show that as a dropoff in the motif in romantic comedies, turgid member romantic books, etc.?
 
2012-02-05 02:38:05 PM
Isn't

Fark_Guy_Rob:
For some, there is a fear of being 'too easy' and somehow saying 'no' helps them avoid that. Or, for some, 'no' really just means, 'Not quite yet'. In at least one case, 'No' meant, 'I feel guilty because I have a boyfriend; but if you try again in a few minutes I'll let you'


Educating women on the meaning of "No" wouldn't make any difference when guys like you hear it and try the same thing a minute later, anyway
 
2012-02-05 02:38:07 PM

ChuDogg: ExperianScaresCthulhu: the only constant is that she was underaged. she gets a statutory rape accusation. but the rest don't stick.

It appears they were underaged as well. From the article, it seemed like they were friends prior to the incident.


So teens making a series of foolish choices ends badly. Except one side of the party is legally responsible for the outcome.

Whatever happened to equal rights? With equality comes responsibility.

We also expect adults to be responsible but these were not adults. What they did was really stupid and foolish and I hope they are better adults and mae better choices from the dangerous lesson.

I wonder if the blood lust here applies to kids playing doctor. We already see that simple nudity is criminalizes in some places. Urinating in public can get you on a sex offenders list.

The puritans really farked up this society and planted the seeds of dysfunction in behaviors and dialog.
 
2012-02-05 02:38:09 PM

omgwtfetc: serial_crusher

/ Dammit, now I've got that Seinfeld bit stuck in my head. "When I was a kid, I thought Gun Point was an actual place in a bad neighborhood where crimes happened. I kept hearing on the news, 'woman raped at Gun Point', 'three people robbed at Gun Point', and I just kept asking myself, 'why do people even go there?'"

LOL, you just inadvertently outed yourself as someone who watched Friends.

/then again so did I. Dammit.


Could I have been any more wrong about which show that was from?
 
2012-02-05 02:39:00 PM

HellRaisingHoosier: 3) Teach your children to stay away from bad situations and to always have a friend with them


And by "children", you mean daughters, don't you?
 
2012-02-05 02:40:02 PM

The more you eat the more you fart: I never understood why people falsely accused of rape, then exonerated of the charges dont turn around and sue the everloving SHIAT out of the person who falsely accused them.

It would be a slam dunk win.


Because they weren't the batshiat crazy vindictive one in the relationship. They just pack up and move on to let the wound heal. Why tear it back open?
 
2012-02-05 02:40:28 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: This is going to sound horrible, and people are going to call me a troll (or a rapist). But I think we really need to work on educating *WOMEN* on what 'No' means. And I'm really being 100% serious here.

Growing up, I was told 'No means no' in school and I even believed it. It wasn't until my awkward make-out sessions that I learned 'No means maybe'. And it's been reinforced by many girls through-out the years. Without getting to graphic, the pattern is typically, 'We are doing X' and I try to progress to 'X+1' and the girl says 'no' or moves my hand or pulls away in some fashion. So I stop and go back to doing 'X'. Fast forward 15-30 minutes and the girl moves by hand BACK or does the thing I was trying to do, herself.

It doesn't take that happening very often to learn that 'no' doesn't really mean no. After a while, you think, 'Okay, I tried X+1 and she gently moved my hand away, so she probably is cool with X+1 and just doesn't want me to think she's easy....I'll try it again in 10 minutes and see how it goes.' Then, you do that a few times and realize, girls are cool with that.

I've since talked to some girls about this, including my wife. Apparently, the female mind is quite complicated/conflicted/whatever. For some, there is a fear of being 'too easy' and somehow saying 'no' helps them avoid that. Or, for some, 'no' really just means, 'Not quite yet'. In at least one case, 'No' meant, 'I feel guilty because I have a boyfriend; but if you try again in a few minutes I'll let you'.

Now, I'm not talking about a girl who forcefully says 'No'. And, again, I have zero desire to actually rape or assault anyone; so even with my belief that 'no doesn't always mean no' I'm not precluding the possibility that sometimes, 'No means no'. But whenever I hear an account of rape that involves a girl lightly protesting verbally, once, and then going along with it - I'm really concerned. Thankfully, I'm married now and this is a non-issue for me; but it's real ...


You know what would REALLY help clear up a lot of confusion? If we stopped giving terms like 'slut' a negative connotation and teach girls growing up that it is NOT a bad thing to like sex.

In cultures and tribes that are matriarchal and nonmonogamous, women don't get this guilt and they have no word for rape, because there's no need for any one person to prove they "own" another. Also, men get more sex than they would in a patriarchal setup.

Also, a matriarchal society is not simply the inverse of a patriarchal one.

I've slept with over twenty people in my life, male and female. fark your value judgements. Once we do, I'd imagine at the very least, rape will happen less and incidences that do happen will be more likely to be prosecuted.

Highly recommended (new window)
 
2012-02-05 02:41:52 PM

namatad: huge amounts of real evidence


Really? What evidence? A screenshot without much context, that would be trivially easy to fake? A written account of a telephone conversation, based on admittedly imperfect memory and made after the fact?

Have any of her female classmates come forward and said "yeah, she warned me about those guys..."? Is there any evidence that any of the three guys were ever in serious trouble, before or after? Are there even phone records that such a conversation ever took place?

No. There are a lot of assertions and claims, which are at best poor evidence unless supported by other people or verifiable facts.

If you're ever called for jury duty, please bring a copy of your comment with you and provide it to the attorneys on both sides. You'll be out of there so fast you won't even get lunch.
 
2012-02-05 02:42:15 PM

Oznog: MoronLessOff: Oznog: Chinchillazilla: John Buck 41: WTH is 'penguin head'?

Yes, I also need to know this.

/too much beak?

I, too, was wondering this. Urban Dictionary says:

1. penguin head
The act of performing oral sex on a man with an ice cube in your mouth and a vibrator against your cheek to imitate the cold and pecking sensation of a penguin's beak.
"Bro, I got got some mad penguin head last night." -Man 1

"Dude, that's wicked chill!" -Man 2

I... don't see how that even applies. I mean, it's not a likely assumption that the 14-yr-old girl has a vibrator and is keeping an ice cube cold somewhere.

Only the first part of that sounds fun. I propose that, henceforth, this act will be known as the Chilly Willy.

Already Taken- Link (new window)

1. Chilly Willy 211 up, 31 down
To injest alcohol through the nose via snorting, in order to get the alochol into your system quicker. Often done out of the concave bottom of a shot glass.
That chilly willy was fun huh? wait...get up, why are you passed out?
buy chilly willy mugs & shirts
by Jeremy Nov 3, 2003 share this add a video
2. chilly willy 16 up, 7 down
The act of dipping one's penis into a bucket of ice water and without warning, jamming it into a female partner's gash.
So I was banging this chick down by the lake right, and the ice was frozen. So I dipped my stick in the frozen lake water, and gave her a chilly willy.
buy chilly willy mugs & shirts
chilly frozen cold bucket ice
by pdb5 Jan 27, 2011 share this add a video
3. chilly willy 42 up, 33 down
When one's sex partner sucks on an ice cube, drastically lowering the temperature of their mouth and tongue, prior to giving you oral sex.
LaFawnduh gave me a chilly willy in the bathroom on the bus to Detroit. That's when I knew I was gonna marry her.


Penguin head:

Giving head up until the point of orgasm then stopping and walking away, causing the man to walk towards the woman, pants on the ground, imitating the walk of a penguin saying "hey, hold on, wait!"
 
2012-02-05 02:42:20 PM
T.V. and the internet have lead me to believe that every single person on the planet has been raped, molested and/or murdered at some point.
Personally I feel left out.

/Not really trolling. A number of friends that I went to high school with have confessed to victimizing experiences, and they're always the last ones that I expect. Plus, every time some new memoir comes out it seems there's some sexual foul play somewhere in there.
 
2012-02-05 02:42:22 PM
For all you "no means no" people out there.
I've never had sex with a woman who said no after the clothes come off. Is that common? Are there women that are really that indecisive that they say no after they are naked? If so, I hope I never meet one of them.
I had sex with a 23 y/o when I was 18, that AFTER we were done started crying and said that she didn't want to see me anymore because I reminded her of her ex-husband. That was as close as I'd ever come to a woman that says no after we got naked, and it scared the shiat out of me thinking that in her whacked out mind that she might think I just raped her.
 
2012-02-05 02:42:24 PM

tblax: Isn't Fark_Guy_Rob:
For some, there is a fear of being 'too easy' and somehow saying 'no' helps them avoid that. Or, for some, 'no' really just means, 'Not quite yet'. In at least one case, 'No' meant, 'I feel guilty because I have a boyfriend; but if you try again in a few minutes I'll let you'

Educating women on the meaning of "No" wouldn't make any difference when guys like you hear it and try the same thing a minute later, anyway


Did you even read my post? Maybe it was too long, so I'm sorry for that. I'll summarize it.

I was told 'No means no' and I believed it ... UNTIL.... I experienced many women using the word 'No' when they didn't actually mean no. The contradiction between what I was taught and HOW WOMEN ACTUALLY ACTED, lead me to dismiss what I was taught. Because 'no means no' did not accurately reflect the behaviour exhibited by the women I personally encountered.
 
2012-02-05 02:42:29 PM

bobbette: ExperianScaresCthulhu: If you want to stop, you need to show you want to stop. Not the passive aggressive mixed signals bullshiat. And definitely not the body language acting in a way counter to 'bare minimum'/legal minimum/plausible deniability mouthings.

Excuse me, but what in the fark? If someone says "no, stop" that's pretty clear.


That's not true at all. Just like 'yes' is not always pretty clear. (off topic, I'm having a little difficulty finding Holly Dunn's "Maybe I Mean Yes" on youtube... is this the reason? EW: Dunn's Deal
Holly Dunn's controversial single -- The country star asks stations to remove ''Maybe I Mean Yes'' from rotation (August 16, 1991)
.. but my youtube-fu sucks at the best of times, so... )

What happens in real life is that women send mixed signals. You know how dudes can say 'i love you' and mean it at that moment, though not forever or permanently? chicks can say 'yes' and 'no' and mean either at that millisecond, but not permanently or intend it permanently. just the way it goes. I understand why the 'no means no' movement happened. there was a serious issue that needed to be addressed. unfortunately, proper behavior for both sexes has not been reinforced by society, or by either gender.

bobbette:If someone is sending you "passive aggressive mixed signals" how about getting the hint that they're just not that into you? I've gotten mixed signals before but never ones I'd describe as "passive aggressive". If they're sending "passive aggressive mixed signals" and you're in bed... why would you even want to be in that situation?

It's a big world with over 7 billion people, so some people would probably crave that crap. Probably others don't crave it, but it's all they know (male and female) and their culture reinforces the crap; it's what's expected out of sexually intimate relationships.

If someone is sending you passive aggressive signals, it's less about you, and more about the person sending the signals. You are not responsible for their internal crises of faith, ethics, morals, forgot to take today's prescription helper, whatever.

bobbette:mikdeetx: My gaydar went off when I looked at the author's photo. She's a lesbian now...and this also gave her closure for a bad hetero episode with multiple men.

My gaydar's really fine-tuned, because I'm actually queer, and you're an idiot. A farking idiot. She's straight. And you're a homophobe as well as a rape apologist.


You're a lesbian biatch? My apologies.
 
2012-02-05 02:42:52 PM

Troublesome Strumpet: You're seriously farking stupid."No means no" when it comes to sex because it is a violation of someone elses' bodily integrity. That's why rape, murder and assault are crimes.The reason few people were taught that no means no before a certain point in time is because women and children were considered property until only last century (in most Western countries anyway).There's room for negotiations in other situations because in those situations, you're not trying to physically harm another person against their will. That is the difference between trying to ask a boss for a raise and trying to violate someone's sense of self and safety for your own selfish desires.If you can't tell the difference, maybe you shouldn't be allowed outside without a handler.


By the way, I didn't call you a stupid farking coont, so I see no reason for you to insult me.

But let's look at what you wrote again.

You are expecting fallible humans to understand that in every other facet of their lives, no means time to negotiate, but when it comes to sex, no means no.

And they need to understand this even when driven by hormones, and dulled by alcohol or drugs.

Your policy seems unlikely to succeed.
 
2012-02-05 02:42:57 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: KiplingKat872: This took some serious courage. I never saw the bastard who raped me again. I just wanted to run away like she said at the beginning of the article. We had been dating and he left a couple messages on my machine, pissed off that I was not returning his calls, but I never answered them and quit the place I worked at where we had met. It took me a long time to deal with what happened, and get closure on my own.

Are you one of those biatches who tells the same sob stories (different names) to the new White Knights in your life, leaving shiat out, and when your Bipolarism kicks in again, you start trying to 'recreate' history with the new White Knight who thought he was trying to help you and Be A Better Man Than The Ones Who Hurt You Before?



What the fark is wrong with you, I don't understand why you hate your fellow women so much. Do you think this will make the men on this site like you better? What did she say that has you spewing the vemon? She is relating a painful experience and how it related to the story. My question is what happened in your past to hate all woman and to act like rape never ever happens. Do you think that it can't happen to you? That if you follow the "rules" that you won't ever be attacked, cause honey I have bad news for you. I followed the rules and I still had an attempted, I got lucky and someone stopped it. But that was pure dumb luck, not all women have luck on their side.
 
2012-02-05 02:43:19 PM
I'm going to teach my daughters that "No" means "Maybe" and "Get the fark off off of me or I'll farking kill you!" means "No"
 
2012-02-05 02:43:38 PM

s2s2s2: KiplingKat872: Gee, because I am a rape survivor,

I am too, but I am also honest enough with myself to know that getting into a swimming pool naked with an older, larger boy that said he wanted to try something like sex he heard about has just as much relevance to what happened next as his continuing when I decided I was suddenly extremely certain of my heterosexuality and wanted it to stop immediately.

I learned not to get into questionable situations with people who could easily over power me. This has kept me pretty safe and sound. So getting mad at people suggesting that people(because it applies to men too) can make themselves safer from people that don't respect the rights of other people is going to ensure rapes continue. So let's be clear. Refusing to allow for personal responsibility is inadvertently supporting rapes. Not the concept of rape, just actual rapes.


You know most rapes are perpetuated by someone the rapist knows, right? And often it's someone the rapist has chosen because the victim already has low self-esteem. So even if you do everything "right", it can still happen.

Just World beliefs are bullshiat and do more harm than good. (new window)
 
2012-02-05 02:43:54 PM

Troublesome Strumpet: Honestly, how can some of you defend rapists? When a victim is blamed, it's basically saying the perpetrator can't help themselves. They're base creatures who can't be trusted to function in society in that case, so why not treat known, proven rapists like animals and put them down for the benefit of society?

You come across someone raping someone else? Shoot them in the head right then and there, like a rabid animal mauling a victim.

I'm not joking, I'm not exaggerating. Put a rapist down where they stand. I intend to get a gun and learn to use it, and a CCL. If someone tries to rape me or my children, they're getting a few bullets in them until they stop moving.


you sound fat.
 
F42
2012-02-05 02:44:40 PM

s2s2s2: I have always, ALWAYS, taken no to mean no. This angered more than a handful of potential partners who later told me they didn't mean it.



That. When I was young and naive, I had a lot of situations where a girl would seem interested, but then reject me, and then got mad at me for no apparent reason.

Turns out they were lying when they rejected me to see if I was really interested, and that this is standard female courtship behavior. I wish I hadn't been indoctrinated into believing that "no" always means no, there would have been a lot less frustration on all parts without that lie.

Girls like to be chased, denying that is doing no one any good.
 
2012-02-05 02:44:53 PM

gulogulo:
Oh sure. That's why you're single. Ever wonder why the only people you attract are the psychos?


There have only been 2-3 and another that suffered depression badly enough who committed suicide (I later found out they tried once before I met them). Other relationships have been healthy. I don't know if I'm over/under the average.

I'm over 40. I'm just tired of the petty games.
 
2012-02-05 02:45:34 PM
No means no. I've always lived by that. Here's a situation where she apparently didn't:

She comes over for a dinner date (this is our 5th or 6th date). After dinner, we move to the hot tub, and things start to get a little hot and heavy. As the situation progresses, she says that she's not comfortable going any further. I stop immediately, and back off. After another hour of just talking, she says she wants to leave. I grab her a towel, and she gets dressed and leaves.

A week later, I was at a friend's house just hanging out, drinking a beer, watching a movie. About half way through the movie, she walks out of his bedroom. She looks at me, looks at my friend, and that dawning realization of, "oh shiat, they know each other" appears in her eyes, and she quickly packs up and leaves without saying a word. Neither of us hear from her again. So I told him my story, and asked him his.

Here's what he told me (paraphrased): "She came over for lunch, and then we started getting a little hot and heavy. We make it back into the bedroom, and then as we're about to take it to the next level, she tells me she's not comfortable and she wants to stop. So I stop, and start to get out of bed. Then she asks out of frustration, 'What is wrong with people? Doesn't anyone want angry sex?' I realized that she wanted me to get mad at her for telling me no, and then have angry sex with her. I said fark it, I'm going to take a shower. When I got out of the shower, she was still there, asleep on my bed. A bit later, you came over."

Doesn't matter for me, doesn't matter for my friend. No still means no, and we're not falling for your tricks.
 
2012-02-05 02:46:07 PM

lohphat: Changing te topic a bit:

We're taught to respect women's hormones and understand their emotional roller-coasters because ts ther nature. I'm not excusing rapiss. At all. But what about men's hormones? If you're going to fire them up in a bar, flirt, maybe a bit of petting, but then expect the momentum to come to a screeching halt by the utterance of a word. Really? I'm not talking about parking structure assault+rape, I'm talking about social setting+mixed messages here. Why is there asymmetrical reosibility here? If you meant "no" then stop flirting and teasing. That's just cruel.

Yes, I have a daughter and she will hopefully have more common sense about her surroundings and self-respect (and respect of her potential partners feelings) to clearly communicate what she wants.

I dated a woman who once started crying in the middle of sex once after we'd been together awhile. I freaked me out and I stopped cod thinking something went wrong. No. She explained that it "just happens" sometimes. End of relationship. Sorry. It was just too much to handle. The thought of me hurting someone just made it impossible to continue. She turned out to be a fundie who just happened to enjoy random rooms in the hay with guys from bars. Got away from the crazy while the getting was good. Pity. She had a sweet kid (I later learned was from another romp). Dodged a bullet I did. But the poor kid...


Digesting....
 
2012-02-05 02:46:53 PM

serial_crusher: omgwtfetc: serial_crusher

/ Dammit, now I've got that Seinfeld bit stuck in my head. "When I was a kid, I thought Gun Point was an actual place in a bad neighborhood where crimes happened. I kept hearing on the news, 'woman raped at Gun Point', 'three people robbed at Gun Point', and I just kept asking myself, 'why do people even go there?'"

LOL, you just inadvertently outed yourself as someone who watched Friends.

/then again so did I. Dammit.

Could I have been any more wrong about which show that was from?


You win the Ms. Chanandler Bong Award for Most Inaccurate Factoid. Your prize is one year of TV Guide. Of which you will receive exactly no copies because they will be mailed to some guy named Mr. Cereal Cruizer. Congratulations.
 
2012-02-05 02:47:36 PM

The more you eat the more you fart: I never understood why people falsely accused of rape, then exonerated of the charges dont turn around and sue the everloving SHIAT out of the person who falsely accused them.

It would be a slam dunk win.


Perhaps because the "exoneration" isn't. There is no "Innocent" verdict, just "not guilt" meaning "it wasn't proven to the standard required"

That won't fly even in a civil case, I suspect.
 
F42
2012-02-05 02:47:49 PM

Troublesome Strumpet: I can't even tell WTF you're trying to get at.


Saying "no means no" to a rapist is like saying "being punched in the face hurts" to a bully: It's not that they didn't know, it's that they don't care.

All you're doing with that tautology is making sure that the non-rapists aren't getting laid, and having exactly no effect whatsoever on the incidence of rape.
 
2012-02-05 02:48:02 PM
Okay, so we now know that no means no, but what does yes mean?
 
2012-02-05 02:49:02 PM

RoyBatty: Troublesome Strumpet: You're seriously farking stupid."No means no" when it comes to sex because it is a violation of someone elses' bodily integrity. That's why rape, murder and assault are crimes.The reason few people were taught that no means no before a certain point in time is because women and children were considered property until only last century (in most Western countries anyway).There's room for negotiations in other situations because in those situations, you're not trying to physically harm another person against their will. That is the difference between trying to ask a boss for a raise and trying to violate someone's sense of self and safety for your own selfish desires.If you can't tell the difference, maybe you shouldn't be allowed outside without a handler.

By the way, I didn't call you a stupid farking coont, so I see no reason for you to insult me.

But let's look at what you wrote again.

You are expecting fallible humans to understand that in every other facet of their lives, no means time to negotiate, but when it comes to sex, no means no.

And they need to understand this even when driven by hormones, and dulled by alcohol or drugs.

Your policy seems unlikely to succeed.


So people are either animals that can't control themselves (in which case, as I posted earlier, they should be put down as such), or they can't EVER be held responsible if they've taken a mind-altering substance of some kind (which I'd love to see you try in a court of law after being caught driving drunk).

And I've said this before: I've had regrettable sex while drunk, but was aware of the situation, wasn't totally smashed to the point of blackout, and I never thought of them as rape.

You're just unable to think outside of a binary mindset.

/You're still stupid
 
2012-02-05 02:49:03 PM

MarkEC: A few years ago my son, who is now 21, was charged with assault for beating up a coworker of his girlfriend. She told my son that he raped her, then called this coworker up and invited him to meet up with my son and her. Turns out she wasn't raped at all, just pissed off at her coworker.
He plea bargained down to simple assault and she actually paid the fine.
Luckily my son got away from her and now has a sane girlfriend.
I totally agree with those saying don't go after an accused rapist. It could get you an assault charge, and/or you might be doing it because of a lie.


digesting....
 
2012-02-05 02:49:41 PM
How bad is it over at Google? I tried to do a custom-range search for a rape thread on LAST YEAR'S Super Bowl Sunday morning--you know to see whether trolling rape victims on Super Bowl Sunday has become an annual thing on Fark.com. I click on Custom range and Google takes me back a page. That's it. Nothing more.

Jeebus.
 
2012-02-05 02:49:58 PM
Can we go ahead and condemn the "no means yes" women and writers who produce works that include rape scenes in which the women fall in love with their rapists? Ayn Rand and Margaret Mitchell come to mind.
 
2012-02-05 02:52:38 PM
she was eventually able to refer to what happened as rape.

Pro Tip: If you have to think about it after the fact and eventually decide that it was rape. It wasn't rape.

Bad sex that you were talked into and later regret != rape. And actual rape victims should be pissed as hell at anyone who conflates the two.

/article about irresponsible teens having irresponsible sex and feeling farked up about it is still sad
 
2012-02-05 02:52:49 PM

s2s2s2: KiplingKat872: Gee, because I am a rape survivor,

I am too, but I am also honest enough with myself to know that getting into a swimming pool naked with an older, larger boy that said he wanted to try something like sex he heard about has just as much relevance to what happened next as his continuing when I decided I was suddenly extremely certain of my heterosexuality and wanted it to stop immediately.

I learned not to get into questionable situations with people who could easily over power me. This has kept me pretty safe and sound. So getting mad at people suggesting that people(because it applies to men too) can make themselves safer from people that don't respect the rights of other people is going to ensure rapes continue. So let's be clear. Refusing to allow for personal responsibility is inadvertently supporting rapes. Not the concept of rape, just actual rapes.


I am not sure why you are yelling at me about this. I am arguing against the people who claim it was not rape or that she is a liar. I am not arguing that doing drugs at 14 is a great idea.

Unless you are saying that for thst reason alone, it was not rape. Then we have a problem.
 
2012-02-05 02:54:16 PM

steamingpile: Ok on the first case maybe or he could have thought you were into thrilling sexual experiences too, I have had girls that gave BJs when we may get caught and even had a girl ride me in a movie theater with 30-40 people in it. So some women are weird like that.

But on the second one, seriously? Trying to fark a dry pussy is now rape? Farking really? Sounds like at worse he was just insensitive to your needs but that doesn't make it rape.

In the words of Jim Jeffries, "I did my job by getting my dick hard, your job is to get your pussy wet"

Jim Jeffries is farking funny.


In the first case, he specifically waited until after I had told him we absolutely could not have sex, and I not only said no, I physically resisted, and afterwards he actually said it was because he wanted to know what it was like to rape somebody.

"He could have thought I was into---" that's the whole point of my post, really, that rapists are so damned dense they don't understand that consent matters and why and how very serious a matter consent and lack of consent is.

In the second case, the limit was, "Absolutely no anal without artificial lubricant. That's a hard limit. What a hard limit is is it means you don't do it, you don't ask during sex can I do it, you don't try to persuade me to let you do it, you respect that I am absolutely against it and you don't do it."

This was, by the way, after I'd told him no anal and he did it anyway and he handed me the line, "But I thought it would be okay because..." and "But didn't you end up liking it...." (It also wasn't completely dry that time.)

He didn't get that that was beside the point. He didn't get that it was still not okay with me that I had told him quite clearly out of bed that that was something it was not okay for him to do to my body in bed. If he thought I might be open to re-discussing that, well fine, he could have waited until we were once again out of bed and asked me. Or could have actually asked me in bed instead of just doing it.

(I do not count that as rape because even though I'd told him beforehand that no, he couldn't do that, I don't remember specifically how emphatic I had or hadn't been. There is the barest possibility that he genuinely didn't understand that time how serious I was about telling him not to do that.)

So when we were both out of bed, both dressed, both in a sober frame of mind, I did the "we need to talk" thing and really farking laid down the law on the issue. Emphatically and in no uncertain terms told him what was absolutely NOT OKAY WITH ME. I made sure there was no shadow of a possibility that he could possibly miss that I was giving him a standing, ongoing, permanent NO to dry anal.

Flat out? Straight up? I'm bipolar, and I'm hypersexual. I'm the nympho your mommy warned you about. Being on meds doesn't make my drives less, it means I can (and do) choose to control my behavior.

But you know what, boys? Even that hot crazy chick gets to say no, and means it.

But, since I'm the hot crazy chick, he had reason to believe that I would let him get away with doing whatever he wanted. Not that it was okay--I had made it crystal damned clear it wasn't okay. Just that he could do it and get by with it--again.

And in the end, since what it actually took to enforce no and make it stick was to get entirely and permanently physically out of reach, that's what I did. Because I may be hot and horny, but yeah, I meant NO.

I mean, for gods' sakes get the point. I'm not trying to out anybody on Fox News or cost anyone their job or ruin them in the community or send them to jail or make them a pariah on the internet or embarrass them in front of Mommy.

At this point, since I'm seeing a hell of a lot of various rape apologists, what I'm trying to communicate is that even if you hate the label, don't get so farking caught up in the farking label "rape" or "rapist" that you forget the POINT.

The point is if you don't have consent, it's not okay, lack of consent is that important, for fark's sake STOP.

If the woman facing you is naked, and her lips are swollen and her pupils are dilated and she's breathing heavy and rubbing her legs together and you can see her thighs are damp and sticky and she says, "I want to go home now. I don't want to have sex." THEN STOP. She may be a ragingly horny nympho, but she's saying no.

And the same goes for us women. Just because guys are prone to follow their dicks if you just take your clothes off or stick your tongue in their mouths doesn't mean we get to ignore no, either. If a guy says no to you, he doesn't have to have a reason, back the hell off. No means no.

Thinking you can get away with ignoring consent is not the same thing as having consent.
 
2012-02-05 02:54:19 PM
So: girl gets drunk and does drugs = not responsible for her actions...right?
 
2012-02-05 02:55:01 PM

blondski: All of these comments from women make me wonder if any woman makes it through life with out some sort of creepy ass touching them with out consent.


Nope. Happened to me too.

It was the middle of the day about ten years ago. I was selling cell phones at a kiosk in Sam's Club. A man I had just finished chatting with about a phone grabbed my ass when I turned to put the phone back on the shelf. I put him in an armbar and dropped him to the ground. I remember that I told him "There is one man in this world that can touch me without my permission. You are not that man. Now apologize." It was right at that moment that his wife returned to the kiosk and was freaked to see her husband on the ground. She asked what was going on. I told her and said I was still waiting for an apology. He apologized and I let him go.

My eldest sister put a guy in the hospital that tried to date rape her. My grandmother (when she was 62 years old) was bound, beaten and raped for three days in her home.

Thinking about all the women I know, including my two sisters, I can say for sure that one sister has not been touched without her consent and one friend of mine mentioned that she's never been touched either. All the rest have been groped in some way or another against their will/without consent. One friend was groped in the check out line at a grocery store. The man just reached up and grabbed her breasts while she was unloading her cart. Another friend was crossing the street when the guy behind her stepped on the back of her shoe so she would stumble. He then grabbed her ass and ran off laughing as she fell in the street. A pregnant friend had a man grab her breasts in a Babies R Us while she was looking for a carseat. Another gal I know (who is a sworn officer but was not in uniform at the time) had a guy grab her ass in a mall once. My old tae kwon do instructor had a man try to grab her while she was with her five year old daughter and they were walking home from school.

For the record we were all in different states, different sized towns/cities. Different socio-economic locations. We're all of different ancestry as well. We were all of different ages when these things happened.

All of these occured during the day. All of us were fully clothed. All of us were by ourselves but in very public places with lots of other people around.

It can happen anytime. Anywhere. But just because a woman is out during the day does not make her any less likely to be groped/assualted by some random stranger.

Ask all your female friends. I bet at least half have some story of something like this happening to them.
 
2012-02-05 02:56:51 PM
I'm male, and fortunately, I'm just not wired that way. What gets me off, is the woman I'm with, getting off.

I've run into the girls that say no, when the mean yes though, and it is very farking annoying. I always stopped. Oddest time with that was when I was with his girl I really liked. Third or fourth date we start, I'm in for two or three strokes when she says "Stop, I can't do this." I stop, pull out and roll off her, we were in missionary. She snuggles up next to me while I'm flat on my back. She keeps rubbing my chest, then starts running her fingers lightly over my cock. I'm just about to say, "He., if you don't want to do it, that's fine, but YOU have to stop. Then she proceeded to throw her leg over, grab it, and put it in and rode me me like there was no tomorrow... Dated for a few months, and yes she was psycho...

One thing that I always baffled me about rape, is how does the guy get it in? Dry vagina seems like that would be impossible? Does it get wet even when the owner doesn't want any parts of what is happening?
 
2012-02-05 02:56:53 PM

huskerdu: And I was hilarious and sexually brash, defense mechanisms mastered by fat women and gay men everywhere. (new window)


Hmm. Sounds kinda attention-whorey.


Pulling up....
i.cdn.turner.com
FTFA: "So it maybe isn't such a big surprise that by the time I graduated from high school, I weighed 260 pounds. My prom dress was a size 24, and my mother had to help me zip it up, a five-minute ordeal during which we grunted and cursed at one another."

Oh, so it's the old story of 'self-medicating-with-food' (and also drugs in her case) who wants to feel loved is willing to do anything with the guys, who don't respect her because of what's in tblax's chart on why the double standard is correct, but she goes along with shiat so why not let her tag along as long as she continues to give up the goods?

FTFA: "As a result, a fat girl's worldview is missing vital pieces of information. When you don't get invited on your friends' man-catching all-girl outings, or when men who enjoy sleeping with you over and over again fail to want to date you, you can't quite comprehend that all this is really caused by the way you look."

Yeah.

I'm getting an image..... what's the old skit, "I hate you! I hate you! Call me?"

/chicks who get tatted sleeves, self-expression or self-cutting?
 
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