Teen Wolf Blitzer: There's "held down in a tunnel while screaming for your life and trying to scratch the guy's eyes out" rape, and "whispering 'no' while having sex" rape. This sounds closer to the latter.

Not to some people here. Someone used the 'murder vs. manslaughter' analogy. Either way someone was killed. I realize saying this puts me on the 'defending the rapist/blaming the victim' team according to some, but...whatever.

Entertaining thread to say the least.

Troublesome Strumpet: FTFA: D: I don't remember handcuffs. I remember a collar and a leash.

Seems pretty damn clear to me. And once again: the "but then everything would be OK" portion came from HIM. And if she had shut down at that point, no, she's not gonna say much.


We could argue over the whole collar and leash thing, but we'd probably never agree. I don't think it alone necessarily means she was "restrained" but it seems pretty clear from your post that you do.

Yes, he said the "everything would be ok" line, but she didn't refute it. Does she have to refute it for it to be untrue? Not really. Does that mean it was untrue? No. And she didn't shut down until after they were done.

susler: Question:

Why is a mind befuddled with alcohol and drugs a mitigating factor for the female but not for the male?

Don't read more into the question than what is there; I'm curious b/c this thread is awash with people saying that the woman bears zero responsibility for showing up in a warehouse with a bunch of guys while drunk and on drugs but at the same time, the man bears complete responsibility even though he was also drunk and on drugs.

I'm wondering why the disconnect and hoping someone can explain it cogently and without hyperbole.

Because the girl, though befuddled with alcohol and drugs recalls saying "no", believed that she hadn't consented and has had it confirmed by one of those taking part. Therefore there was no consent.

So essentially you have:

Befuddled girl in bad place with bad people but NOT consenting to sex.
Befuddled bad people forcing her to have sex with them.

Why would the befuddlement of the victim in any way mitigate what the attackers did to her?

Let's put it another way.....

Renton is drunk in a pub. He's sitting there very happily, upsetting nobody, watching a football match.
Begby is drunk in the same pub. He walks over to Renton and says, "Can I smash this pint glass on your head?"
Renton says no, Begby does it anyway.

Why would Renton being drunk have anything to do with mitigating Begby's crime?

Crime's committed whilst voluntarily intoxicated are still crimes. Last time I checked, being an intoxicated victim of crime does not invalidate the crime either.

serial_crusher: John Buck 41: serial_crusher: John Buck 41: Was that a line from the show or from his standup? I'm thinking the latter, 'cos I don't recall ever seeing/hearing it.

I'm pretty sure it was on the show where it cuts away to his standup routine, but I could be wrong. Might even be a different comedian, but it definitely plays in my head in Seinfeld's voice

Sounds like one of his bits, for sure.

I think it was the last episode, where they get arrested for not helping a guy who's being robbed (at gunpoint). Wikipedia says of the syndication version: "Jerry's opening stand-up comedy act, which was the first since the finale of Season 7, is cut out". So maybe that's what happened?

Could be. Thanks for the research.

EvilAvatar: /not-so-CSB time: My good friend was accused and even charged with sexual assault. He had sex with a girl (17 when he was 19) at a party where they were both drunk and possibly high on pain meds. The girl passed out at the party (asleep not blacked out), and the next morning her parents were looking for her worried because she missed her 1:00 curfew. When she got home after doing the walk of shame, her family was there, being very conservative Christians, they immediately began to verbally assault her and tell her how much of a whore she was. For a believer, burning in hell for eternity can be a very real fear. She was a virgin technically (though she said she had sex once before). Finally, she broke down and said that she was forced against her will. There was an immediate man-hunt and my friend was pulled right out of school (College). Close to 25,000 dollars was spent to prove his innocence in a court of law, and thanks to the media and a small town mentality his life, and the life of his parents and brothers were ruined. He needed months of counseling to get over the trauma of constant death threats and verbal abuse. Because of the rape allegation he was still charged with some petty crimes, which are now on his permanent record.

Blah blah blah, something irrelevant, vague observation indicating that the justice system worked relatively well but that society isn't perfect, blah blah blah, stops short of concluding that because this one thing happened to somebody he knows therefore most rapes aren't really rapes at all (although that's really what he's trying to say)....

Did I get that right?

Troublesome Strumpet: Honestly, how can some of you defend rapists? When a victim is blamed, it's basically saying the perpetrator can't help themselves. They're base creatures who can't be trusted to function in society in that case, so why not treat known, proven rapists like animals and put them down for the benefit of society?

You come across someone raping someone else? Shoot them in the head right then and there, like a rabid animal mauling a victim.

I'm not joking, I'm not exaggerating. Put a rapist down where they stand. I intend to get a gun and learn to use it, and a CCL. If someone tries to rape me or my children, they're getting a few bullets in them until they stop moving.

The catholic church is going to need a lot more priests.

morgantx: Frankly, we need to educate men and boys that NO ALWAYS MEANS NO. But - and this is a note to the ladies - we ladies need to be absolutely consistent in enforcing that. And that means that we need to quit playing all these stupid little games. We need to quit "playing hard to get" and just be honest about what we want. And THAT means that we need to stop shaming sexually active women as "sluts" and "whores" just because they openly admit what they want instead of playing these stupid little games in order to get laid.

this this and more this.
the more I think about this, the more facing this solves all my problems.
she is playing hard to get? good bye. forever.
she thought it was cute being coy and playing hard to get? fark that shiat.
it can also be used to accuse me of date rape later when she decides that she really wasnt that into me after the fact.

I know enough rape victims. those that have not gotten over it, past it, resolved it, gotten better, moved on; those are the saddest people I know. trapped in hell.

is there a solution for them? of course. but only time will tell if they will ever get the help they need. to face those demons.

so what are some of the first steps?
signed affidavits before sex?
breathalyzers?

certainly the men committing these crimes know that there is little or no risk of consequences. the number of reported rapes is a fraction of the total rapes. the percentage of prosecuted rapes is a fraction of those.

the rape victim has ONLY ONE GOAL -

And in fairness, it's more about ME than it is about THEM. They don't deserve to be forgiven, but I deserve to have peace, and I'm not going to have that if I don't forgive.


this is the TRAP which our society has not found a solution for yet.

the victim's goal is to get better. PERIOD. it is rarely about revenge and justice and punishment. it is about getting better.

but society's goal is to reduce and stop these rapes. it is to catch and punish the rapists. it is to reduce the chance that they will rape again. otherwise, we end up with more victims.

these two goals are completely separate and rarely in alignment.
But without resolving society's goal, these rapists continue to walk the street, raping ...


CSB
good friend was raped by 3 different boyfriends over the last 5 years. she did not report any of them. she isnt even close to getting better and suffers from massive PTSD.
Her other friends have volunteer to take care of the problem. Whether we beat these rapists to death or just close to death, maybe a nice tattoo on their chest, forehead and penis. None of these do damn thing to help her. None of them help her get better.

BUT, they do go a LONG way to preventing these rapists from raping again.

My best idea was to waterboard the rapists. Record their confessions. Dump the confessions on 4chan/anonymous. We know that these people can never be tried in court. We know that this is not evidence. BUT .... at least the next victim can google the person's name and possibly discover that "joe" might be a rapist.
/CSB

so back to the question
HOW does society do a better job of finding and outing the rapists? Can try them, the victims are not reporting and pressing charges ...

but is there a middle ground?
many/most of the victims are terrified for their lives. that the rapist will hunt them down to get even.


what are the chances that you are the only person that that rapist raped?
my guess is zero. they have raped before, they will rape again.

sigh

WOW, I'm really adding to my ignore/troll list here. Sweet Jesus, I hope some of these posters are just trolling and not serious.

And dosboot is now favorited, highlighted and given the label "Slayer of assholes."

SDRR: NeoBad: Part of me things she should have accepted the friend request, found out where he lived and gone and given him some good old justice...can you say 45 ACP little girl?

[chud.com image 500x333]

GET OUT OF MY HEAD

/was the first thing I thought of

Peacedog: The funny thing is I called a rape crisis hotline to first try and see what she needed to do to get help and second to see if they could give me any tips on how to not go over to this guy's bar and beat him with a lead pipe. The person on the phone treated me like I was the rapist myself and implied that I had no business calling them.

WOW
I give you huge points for trying. what else can we do???
First thing that I did when I discovered that my sister had been raped was get and talk to my therapist about it. WHAT CAN I DO?!!!

nothing

my sister was date raped and refused to report it to the police.
there is NOT THING that you can do.... other than be supportive ....

on the other hand
if you carefully broke this rapists: wrists, elbows, knees and ankles.
crushed his nuts? too far?
so carefully that it could never get back to you ...
and whispered, this is what happens to rapists as you left ...

would this "help" society in the long run?
he wont die from those injuries, but he will never, ever forget, ever.

sigh
stupid society and its stupid morals .... sigh

CSB
what I found MOST amazing, was while talking about things like this to my rape victims friends, they UNIVERSALLY SAID NO. do not do that.

they did not want to add the guilt of knowing that we committed a crime on their behalf on their conscience. revenge would do nothing to help them get better.
sigh

/CSB