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(CTV) Interesting Canadian Senator wants to give prisoners the option of being in the loop   (ctv.ca) divider line 143
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TheSpaceAdmiral [TotalFark]
2012-02-03 11:25:45 AM
I didn't watch the video so I apologize if they already covered this, but it's worth noting that his daughter was raped and murdered. He was probably appointed to the senate simply because of that, since he gives some moral credibility to the Harper government's tough-on-crime agenda (in addition to being from Quebec).

Just to clarify: I'm not defending his comment (it would be bad public policy and it's unsenatorial to make the comment). I'm just saying that this should have been given the obvious tag, since his entire purpose in the senate is to say things like this.
 
2wolves [TotalFark]
2012-02-03 01:00:19 PM
No, because they might botch it.

Execute them cleanly, unmarked grave, move on.
 
howdoibegin
2012-02-03 01:10:03 PM
Oh this should be good. And by good, I mean, a bunch of retarded people thinking this is a good idea.
 
Mr Guy
2012-02-03 01:11:04 PM
So the people who think the death penalty is so completely unreasonable also feel that letting a murderer escape through death is too easy on him?
 
SultanofSchwing
2012-02-03 01:16:43 PM
It's less about bringing back the Death Penalty and more to do with a father telling a bunch of assholes to go kill themselves.

Good for him imo.
 
Thorndyke Barnhard
2012-02-03 01:16:44 PM
TheSpaceAdmiral: I didn't watch the video so I apologize if they already covered this, but it's worth noting that his daughter was raped and murdered. He was probably appointed to the senate simply because of that, since he gives some moral credibility to the Harper government's tough-on-crime agenda (in addition to being from Quebec).

Just to clarify: I'm not defending his comment (it would be bad public policy and it's unsenatorial to make the comment). I'm just saying that this should have been given the obvious tag, since his entire purpose in the senate is to say things like this.

This still highlights the corrupt deficiency of Conservative thought. Most non-conservatives would recognize that his personal emotional involvement in the issue casts doubt on his ability to make rational, impartial, credible judgements about it. Cons think it makes him an expert suitable for appointment as a frigging legislator.
 
hamiltonjdavid
2012-02-03 01:17:51 PM
He's from Québec.

Enough said.
 
StoneColdAtheist
2012-02-03 01:20:04 PM
A noose in my cell? Not sure if want...

www.theage.com.au
 
Valiente
2012-02-03 01:20:07 PM
2wolves: No, because they might botch it.

Execute them cleanly, unmarked grave, move on.

Wasteful. Bah.

A better idea is seeing how many organs you can harvest from a living person and still get ten years' labour from them in an Arctic gulag.

/argument from utility.
//the sled dogs are hungry tonight.
 
dywed88
2012-02-03 01:20:34 PM
Who gives a damn? It is a Senator. The Senate matters less than the dog shiat I stepped in the other day.
 
Nick the What
2012-02-03 01:21:46 PM
This is more pandering to their base, without actually doing anything of substance, by the Harper government. They've been doing this a lot lately. Kinda' like, *wink, wink* "We think like you Mr. Joe Six Pack. And we would do something about it, if our hands were not tied."

*Really hope they don't legitimately pursue capital punishment. Betting they have no intention.
 
Amos Quito
2012-02-03 01:23:04 PM
Cyanide capsules.


/Ropes are messy.
 
ThreadSinger
2012-02-03 01:23:13 PM
SultanofSchwing: It's less about bringing back the Death Penalty and more to do with a father telling a bunch of assholes to go kill themselves.

Good for him imo.

Lol, good point.

Thorndyke Barnhard: TheSpaceAdmiral: I didn't watch the video so I apologize if they already covered this, but it's worth noting that his daughter was raped and murdered. He was probably appointed to the senate simply because of that, since he gives some moral credibility to the Harper government's tough-on-crime agenda (in addition to being from Quebec).

Just to clarify: I'm not defending his comment (it would be bad public policy and it's unsenatorial to make the comment). I'm just saying that this should have been given the obvious tag, since his entire purpose in the senate is to say things like this.

This still highlights the corrupt deficiency of Conservative thought. Most non-conservatives would recognize that his personal emotional involvement in the issue casts doubt on his ability to make rational, impartial, credible judgements about it. Cons think it makes him an expert suitable for appointment as a frigging legislator.

Also true.

I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with what the PM said: Personally could be for the death of specific humans under specific circumstances, but I don't want the issue re-opened. I hope it stays that way.
 
Amos Quito
2012-02-03 01:24:30 PM
Nick the What: This is more pandering to their base, without actually doing anything of substance, by the Harper government. They've been doing this a lot lately. Kinda' like, *wink, wink* "We think like you Mr. Joe Six Pack. And we would do something about it, if our hands were not tied."

*Really hope they don't legitimately pursue capital punishment. Betting they have no intention.


I would hardly call giving them the option of suicide "capital punishment".
 
phrenicmonkey
2012-02-03 01:24:37 PM
I'll post it again, Conservatives.
And let's suppose that you've been falsely accused and imprisoned. Prone to depression? No prob, here's a rope.

Crazy idea: incarceration and study of the killers. Then we can maybe figure out a better way of raising kids that don't end up killing.
 
indarwinsshadow
2012-02-03 01:26:22 PM
2wolves: No, because they might botch it.

Execute them cleanly, unmarked grave, move on.

Why?

We have no death penalty on the books. And suicide is legal in Canada. How they attempt it is the individuals choice.
It's no more cruel that locking someone in an 8X6 cell, 23 hours out of a day for the rest of their lives. Unless you're advocating the state should exact some sort of mental torture on the convicted.
 
Harry Freakstorm [TotalFark]
2012-02-03 01:27:28 PM
I'd rather die by firing squad. Could you bring a couple of rifles to my cell? I'll prop the weapons up, aim for the heart and dispatch myself. Honest. C'mon. I'm sentenced to life. What could I possible do?
 
Resolute [TotalFark]
2012-02-03 01:28:34 PM
Thorndyke Barnhard: This still highlights the corrupt deficiency of Conservative thought. Most non-conservatives would recognize that his personal emotional involvement in the issue casts doubt on his ability to make rational, impartial, credible judgements about it. Cons think it makes him an expert suitable for appointment as a frigging legislator.

Meanwhile, the last Liberal PM's shipping company used foreign flags to dodge Canadian taxes. The Liberal PM before him was as corrupt as any Canada has ever had, and the Liberal PM before that was one of the most divisive people in this nation's history, fracturing the country across many lines.

These would be the Liberal ideals of what makes a "good legislator".
 
SultanofSchwing
2012-02-03 01:35:24 PM
phrenicmonkey: I'll post it again, Conservatives.
And let's suppose that you've been falsely accused and imprisoned. Prone to depression? No prob, here's a rope.

Crazy idea: incarceration and study of the killers. Then we can maybe figure out a better way of raising kids that don't end up killing.

This could almost be considered poignant if there was real intent for the government to do it. So I'll say it again, it's just an angry father talking out his ass.

Let's wait to fire up the Liberal bleeding-heart machine when they actually write a bill for it.
 
indarwinsshadow
2012-02-03 01:36:08 PM
Resolute: Thorndyke Barnhard: This still highlights the corrupt deficiency of Conservative thought. Most non-conservatives would recognize that his personal emotional involvement in the issue casts doubt on his ability to make rational, impartial, credible judgements about it. Cons think it makes him an expert suitable for appointment as a frigging legislator.

Meanwhile, the last Liberal PM's shipping company used foreign flags to dodge Canadian taxes. The Liberal PM before him was as corrupt as any Canada has ever had, and the Liberal PM before that was one of the most divisive people in this nation's history, fracturing the country across many lines.

These would be the Liberal ideals of what makes a "good legislator".

Oh for f*cks sake, give it a rest already PC ass kisser. The Liberals haven't even been in power in eight years. You sound like a broken record. Fix your own f*cking house before you start slinging the same sh*t around again and again.
 
Nick the What
2012-02-03 01:37:00 PM
Amos Quito: Nick the What: This is more pandering to their base, without actually doing anything of substance, by the Harper government. They've been doing this a lot lately. Kinda' like, *wink, wink* "We think like you Mr. Joe Six Pack. And we would do something about it, if our hands were not tied."

*Really hope they don't legitimately pursue capital punishment. Betting they have no intention.


I would hardly call giving them the option of suicide "capital punishment".

I think the connotation is there.
 
ontariolightning
2012-02-03 01:40:42 PM
what if the rope is used to kill guards or other prisoners?
 
SultanofSchwing
2012-02-03 01:42:00 PM
ontariolightning: what if the rope is used to kill guards or other prisoners?

What if the rope was a rocket ship?!
 
Amos Quito
2012-02-03 01:42:59 PM
Nick the What: Amos Quito: Nick the What: This is more pandering to their base, without actually doing anything of substance, by the Harper government. They've been doing this a lot lately. Kinda' like, *wink, wink* "We think like you Mr. Joe Six Pack. And we would do something about it, if our hands were not tied."

*Really hope they don't legitimately pursue capital punishment. Betting they have no intention.


I would hardly call giving them the option of suicide "capital punishment".

I think the connotation is there.


Hey, if someone wants to off themselves, I mean seriously wants to get off the merry-go-round, why not let them?

Especially when they're locked up for life - effectively a death sentence anyway - and all of their upkeep - food, housing, clothing, medical care etc. is a drain on the society that they have wronged?

Seriously, what's the point - unless you feel that forcing them to live is an additional punishment?
 
Nick the What
2012-02-03 01:43:37 PM
SultanofSchwing: Let's wait to fire up the Liberal bleeding-heart machine when they actually write a bill for it.

It's never been a "bleeding-heart" thing. It's a bad idea. And like I said earlier, they won't do shiat legally.
 
Amos Quito
2012-02-03 01:43:54 PM
SultanofSchwing: ontariolightning: what if the rope is used to kill guards or other prisoners?

What if the rope was a rocket ship?!


What of it's a hemp rope, and they smoke it?
 
Meatzilla
2012-02-03 01:43:58 PM
i157.photobucket.com
 
bigbadideasinaction
2012-02-03 01:45:23 PM
Nick the What: This is more pandering to their base, without actually doing anything of substance, by the Harper government. They've been doing this a lot lately. Kinda' like, *wink, wink* "We think like you Mr. Joe Six Pack. And we would do something about it, if our hands were not tied."

*Really hope they don't legitimately pursue capital punishment. Betting they have no intention.

I'm pretty sure remarks like this and "backbencher initiatives completely unrelated to the Conservative Party" are all just trial balloons to see how the public reacts.
 
Nick the What
2012-02-03 01:45:36 PM
Amos Quito: Seriously, what's the point - unless you feel that forcing them to live is an additional punishment?

I do.
 
ontariolightning
2012-02-03 01:46:15 PM
Resolute: Thorndyke Barnhard: This still highlights the corrupt deficiency of Conservative thought. Most non-conservatives would recognize that his personal emotional involvement in the issue casts doubt on his ability to make rational, impartial, credible judgements about it. Cons think it makes him an expert suitable for appointment as a frigging legislator.

Meanwhile, the last Liberal PM's shipping company used foreign flags to dodge Canadian taxes. The Liberal PM before him was as corrupt as any Canada has ever had, and the Liberal PM before that was one of the most divisive people in this nation's history, fracturing the country across many lines.

These would be the Liberal ideals of what makes a "good legislator".

Ah yes, the common Conservative lemming, you dont have to follow Harper off the cliff

come 2015 the cons will be booted out and be exiled into political oblivion for at least a decade, enjoy your time now
 
ontariolightning
2012-02-03 01:48:16 PM
bigbadideasinaction: Nick the What: This is more pandering to their base, without actually doing anything of substance, by the Harper government. They've been doing this a lot lately. Kinda' like, *wink, wink* "We think like you Mr. Joe Six Pack. And we would do something about it, if our hands were not tied."

*Really hope they don't legitimately pursue capital punishment. Betting they have no intention.

I'm pretty sure remarks like this and "backbencher initiatives completely unrelated to the Conservative Party" are all just trial balloons to see how the public reacts.

true, no one says anything without harpos approval
 
The_Original_Roxtar
2012-02-03 01:49:07 PM
redshakerockets.files.wordpress.com
 
ontariolightning
2012-02-03 01:50:11 PM
still waiting for Gods wrath when we legalized gay marriage nationally 7 years a go
conservatives said basically society was going to crumble
bunch of blowhards
 
Flagg99
2012-02-03 01:51:10 PM
phrenicmonkey: I'll post it again, Conservatives.
And let's suppose that you've been falsely accused and imprisoned. Prone to depression? No prob, here's a rope.

Crazy idea: incarceration and study of the killers. Then we can maybe figure out a better way of raising kids that don't end up killing.

This. Sadly, the Harper gov't will never learn it's lesson, and I hope we're rid of them come the next election, because they're getting just a little too nutjobby for my liking (this, fake citizenship ceremony with standins, copyright law shennanigans, and that's just this past week or two).
 
Glenford
2012-02-03 01:51:32 PM
TheSpaceAdmiral: I didn't watch the video so I apologize if they already covered this, but it's worth noting that his daughter was raped and murdered. He was probably appointed to the senate simply because of that, since he gives some moral credibility to the Harper government's tough-on-crime agenda (in addition to being from Quebec).

Just to clarify: I'm not defending his comment (it would be bad public policy and it's unsenatorial to make the comment). I'm just saying that this should have been given the obvious tag, since his entire purpose in the senate is to say things like this.

Yes, it is worth noting because someone that is unable to separate his personal emotions from the issue of crime shouldn't be advising the PMO on the subject. It's beyond repulsive that the Cons use his personal story to try and defend the indefensible.

I'm sure these guys would disagree with the senator.
www.cbc.ca
www.ecoweek.ca
media.canada.com
 
Amos Quito
2012-02-03 01:55:18 PM
Nick the What: Amos Quito: Seriously, what's the point - unless you feel that forcing them to live is an additional punishment?

I do.


Well why didn't you just say so?

What say, shall we gouge out their eyes and kick pens through their eardrums and hack off their pee-pees so they enjoy it all the more, then?
 
SultanofSchwing
2012-02-03 01:55:53 PM
Amos Quito: Nick the What: Amos Quito: Nick the What: This is more pandering to their base, without actually doing anything of substance, by the Harper government. They've been doing this a lot lately. Kinda' like, *wink, wink* "We think like you Mr. Joe Six Pack. And we would do something about it, if our hands were not tied."

*Really hope they don't legitimately pursue capital punishment. Betting they have no intention.


I would hardly call giving them the option of suicide "capital punishment".

I think the connotation is there.


Hey, if someone wants to off themselves, I mean seriously wants to get off the merry-go-round, why not let them?

Especially when they're locked up for life - effectively a death sentence anyway - and all of their upkeep - food, housing, clothing, medical care etc. is a drain on the society that they have wronged?

Seriously, what's the point - unless you feel that forcing them to live is an additional punishment?

There's the idea that for a prisoner to just "check out" that they're just taking an easy way out of their punishment.

But then again if a prisoner is set on killing themselves they can accomplish that on their own without anyone's assistance.

ontariolightning: Resolute: Thorndyke Barnhard: This still highlights the corrupt deficiency of Conservative thought. Most non-conservatives would recognize that his personal emotional involvement in the issue casts doubt on his ability to make rational, impartial, credible judgements about it. Cons think it makes him an expert suitable for appointment as a frigging legislator.

Meanwhile, the last Liberal PM's shipping company used foreign flags to dodge Canadian taxes. The Liberal PM before him was as corrupt as any Canada has ever had, and the Liberal PM before that was one of the most divisive people in this nation's history, fracturing the country across many lines.

These would be the Liberal ideals of what makes a "good legislator".

Ah yes, the common Conservative lemming, you dont have to follow Harper off the cliff

come 2015 the cons will be booted out and be exiled into political oblivion for at least a decade, enjoy your time now

Why? Are the Liberals going to somehow clone Pearson? They haven't had a legitimate leadership candidate in over a decade and he could barely talk.
Without Taliban Jack the NDP is going to slip off into obscurity.
 
farm machine
2012-02-03 01:56:22 PM
phrenicmonkey: Crazy idea: incarceration and study of the killers. Then we can maybe figure out a better way of raising kids that don't end up killing.

And if we "study" these people and the social scientists determine that they've figured out what makes them the way they are and that they can identify the symptoms in people, might that not then lead to proactive measures to remove these identified folks from society before they do damage?
 
Rick Kalister
2012-02-03 01:57:19 PM
Offering the prisoner the option of suicide negates the jury and judge's ability to decide an appropriate punishment.
 
Lith
2012-02-03 02:00:24 PM
I think the obvious is being overlooked in all this.

If you're mentally farked up enough to murder 20 people or rape and kill little kids I highly doubt you'll feel guilty enough over it to kill yourself, except maybe out of boredom or some weird sense of "I got away" and if that's the case there are plenty of ways to do that in jail already.
 
NutznGum
2012-02-03 02:01:52 PM
Resolute: Thorndyke Barnhard: This still highlights the corrupt deficiency of Conservative thought. Most non-conservatives would recognize that his personal emotional involvement in the issue casts doubt on his ability to make rational, impartial, credible judgements about it. Cons think it makes him an expert suitable for appointment as a frigging legislator.

Meanwhile, the last Liberal PM's shipping company used foreign flags to dodge Canadian taxes. The Liberal PM before him was as corrupt as any Canada has ever had, and the Liberal PM before that was one of the most divisive people in this nation's history, fracturing the country across many lines.

These would be the Liberal ideals of what makes a "good legislator".

But...but..but...Chretien!
 
Amos Quito
2012-02-03 02:02:22 PM
Rick Kalister: Offering the prisoner the option of suicide negates the jury and judge's ability to decide an appropriate punishment.


So does banning capital punishment, keel hauling, etc.

No?
 
nucular bum
2012-02-03 02:08:04 PM
All this got me thinking of the Ren & Stimpy number, "The Lord loves a hangin', that's why He gave us necks..."
 
Rick Kalister
2012-02-03 02:10:11 PM
Amos Quito: Rick Kalister: Offering the prisoner the option of suicide negates the jury and judge's ability to decide an appropriate punishment.


So does banning capital punishment, keel hauling, etc.

No?

Judges and juries select from the punishments deemed legal by the laws of the particular society. In Iran, you can get flogged. In the Canada, that's not allowed. Are you suggesting that every possible punishment from hot pokers in the anus to a simple fine be on the menu? That's ludicrous.
 
ontariolightning
2012-02-03 02:15:52 PM
It doesnt matter who will be the leader, it will come down to the left uniting (not merging) just uniting this once to vote harpo out
 
Milos Hattrick
2012-02-03 02:19:12 PM
This is why Stephen Harper usually doesn't let his MPs and Senators speak to the press.
 
SultanofSchwing
2012-02-03 02:20:18 PM
ontariolightning: It doesnt matter who will be the leader, it will come down to the left uniting (not merging) just uniting this once to vote harpo out

What the hell are they putting in the water in Ontario these days?
 
tealsmurf
2012-02-03 02:20:57 PM
I guess he just wants them all to have a suspended sentence.
 
Nick the What
2012-02-03 02:22:11 PM
Amos Quito: Nick the What: Amos Quito: Seriously, what's the point - unless you feel that forcing them to live is an additional punishment?

I do.


Well why didn't you just say so?

What say, shall we gouge out their eyes and kick pens through their eardrums and hack off their pee-pees so they enjoy it all the more, then?

Well it is called "crime and punishment", which I agree with (the "punishment" part in particular). Sentences are supposed to deter, no? The problem with "torture" as you are suggesting is it is messy and difficult to administer fairly. Plus it violates international law.
 
Nick the What
2012-02-03 02:24:43 PM
tealsmurf: I guess he just wants them all to have a suspended sentence.

He's probably not counting on a hung jury.
 
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