1. Wii and DS are at end of lifecycle
2. End of lifecycle means sales are slumping and profits are down
3. Wii-U and 3DS have large startup costs associated
4. When Wii-U and 3DS sales take off, software sales will follow, and profits will pick up
5. 3DS has already sold faster than DS in the same time span
6. The Japan economy and Yen are affecting profits
7. Nintendo titles continue to sell upwards of 30 million
8. Figure out what 30 million copies sold times 20 to 30 dollars per copy is
9. Tell me how much profit there is in a $1 app that sells a million or two and gives up a 1/3 slice to Apple
10. Shut up

They wouldn't be the first Japanese company to suffer a melt-down,

natmar_76:
7. Nintendo titles continue to sell upwards of 30 million
8. Figure out what 30 million copies sold times 20 to 30 dollars per copy is
9. Tell me how much profit there is in a $1 app that sells a million or two and gives up a 1/3 slice to Apple
10. Shut up

Nintendo titles, like Mario and Zelda, are the biggest sellers on the platform. Angry Birds, the biggest seller on IOS/Andriod, sold half a billion copies before this Christmas season.

Handheld consoles were great 5 years ago but with smartphones and ipod touches they are redundant. Nintendo would be better off making games for devices people already own instead of trying to sell another $200 zelda player.

Carth: Angry Birds, the biggest seller on IOS/Andriod, sold half a billion copies before this Christmas season.

No, it was downloaded (the free version) that many times. Actual sales are far less, about 20 million.

Nor is Angry Birds typical. Angry Birds is the only game like that on the iPhone. Compare to consoles and handhelds where numerous 3rd party titles sell millions upon millions (times 20 to 30 dollars profit each).

Carth: Handheld consoles were great 5 years ago but with smartphones and ipod touches they are redundant. Nintendo would be better off making games for devices people already own instead of trying to sell another $200 zelda player.

THIS.

And I swear to god, if Game Freak releases another heavily pixellated Pokemon game because they're too lazy to hire a metric ton of animators to make the game look good, I will never buy one of their games again.

/Why yes, I play Pokemon. Its not a bad mindless RPG
//Considering the Final Fantasy franchise has gone to shiat

foo monkey: They wouldn't be the first Japanese company to suffer a melt-down,

Godzilla is not amused by your antics.

natmar_76: Carth: Angry Birds, the biggest seller on IOS/Andriod, sold half a billion copies before this Christmas season.

No, it was downloaded (the free version) that many times. Actual sales are far less, about 20 million.

Nor is Angry Birds typical. Angry Birds is the only game like that on the iPhone. Compare to consoles and handhelds where numerous 3rd party titles sell millions upon millions (times 20 to 30 dollars profit each).

They announced it (new window) as "sold" not "downloaded". If you have a link that shows only 20 million paid downloads I'd love to see it.

Looking at the list of Best Selling DS Games (new window) the top 10 are all first party games. The first third party game is Dragon Quest which only sold 1.01 million outside Japan.

On IOS Fruit Ninja has 20 million sales (new window) Doodle Jump has over 10 million (new window) and and tap tap revenge is at 15 million.

I loved my gameboy but there are better alternatives now. It is foolish to think Nintendo consoles are anything other than devices to buy Nintendo games.

Carth: I loved my gameboy but there are better alternatives now. It is foolish to think Nintendo consoles are anything other than devices to buy Nintendo games.

I still don't feel like my smartphone is a replacement for my DS at all. Mostly because the iPhone games completely whore the battery, where my DSi XL will run for at least 8-10 hours on a charge. Furthermore, because my iPhone on the road was my lifeline for phone calls, directions, email, etc. I don't want to burn it out playing Angry Birds.

Sarsin: Carth: I loved my gameboy but there are better alternatives now. It is foolish to think Nintendo consoles are anything other than devices to buy Nintendo games.

I still don't feel like my smartphone is a replacement for my DS at all. Mostly because the iPhone games completely whore the battery, where my DSi XL will run for at least 8-10 hours on a charge. Furthermore, because my iPhone on the road was my lifeline for phone calls, directions, email, etc. I don't want to burn it out playing Angry Birds.

That is a good argument, and why I think Nintendo screwed up with the 3DS. Why make a portable console that only has a 3-5 hour battery life? I plug in my smartphone at work and while driving so I've never had to worry about it dying but I can imagine some people can't do that.

Haven't owned a Nintendo system since the Gamecube. Had that thing for at least four years and by time i gave it away i had only played maybe 8 games on it, and that is why i won't consider owning another Nintendo system. Played my PS2 to death still wish i could play them new Zelda games that have come out in the last few years...

Carth: natmar_76:
Handheld consoles were great 5 years ago but with smartphones and ipod touches they are redundant. Nintendo would be better off making games for devices people already own instead of trying to sell another $200 zelda player.

I've tried playing Super Mario World on a touchscreen using an Android SNES emulator. Serious suckage (the controls, not the game).

Yes, there are bluetooth type controllers you can add on to a touchscreen phone, but seriously, there will always be a market for portable handheld gaming devices...just maybe not in the quantity the original DS/DS Lite/DSi sold.

To amplify on this: Nintendo released, in rapid fire, the DSi, DSI XL and the 3DS, over a 3 year period. I'm guessing casual consumers saw little difference between the three and bought whatever item was available at the time. I'm also guessing the 3DS is also a victim of the "3D fad", not to mention its market was aimed at kids (who younger than 6 were told they should not be using the 3d feature), and adult gamers (quite a few of who cannot watch 3d without getting headaches and eyestrain, myself included).

The Wii U seems more of the same, an update rather than a fresh perspective on console gaming. I doubt Nintendo will be able to top the original Wii in sales, also given the casual audience they were courting.

If Nintendo fails, so be it; I guess a lot of people are just enjoying the schadenfreude.

imashark: Carth: Handheld consoles were great 5 years ago but with smartphones and ipod touches they are redundant. Nintendo would be better off making games for devices people already own instead of trying to sell another $200 zelda player.

THIS.

And I swear to god, if Game Freak releases another heavily pixellated Pokemon game because they're too lazy to hire a metric ton of animators to make the game look good, I will never buy one of their games again.

/Why yes, I play Pokemon. Its not a bad mindless RPG
//Considering the Final Fantasy franchise has gone to shiat

Pokemon games have just gotten lazy. I've owned two of them, one of the GBA games and one of the DS games. They were almost exactly the same game aside from a larger pokedex and a couple new game mechanics. The story and progression were almost identical, as were the battle graphics/sounds. The pokemon games aren't bad as far as RPGs go, but they shouldn't still have the GameBoy level screeching audio and static battles at this point. What they need to do is wipe the board and build the next one from the ground up. Trimming the pokedex at this point would probably be a good thing.

Phantoms5000: Carth: natmar_76:
Handheld consoles were great 5 years ago but with smartphones and ipod touches they are redundant. Nintendo would be better off making games for devices people already own instead of trying to sell another $200 zelda player.

I've tried playing Super Mario World on a touchscreen using an Android SNES emulator. Serious suckage (the controls, not the game).

Yes, there are bluetooth type controllers you can add on to a touchscreen phone, but seriously, there will always be a market for portable handheld gaming devices...just maybe not in the quantity the original DS/DS Lite/DSi sold.



I think the problem there is playing a game on a system it was never meant to be played on with controls that were never even considered back in the 90s. I'm sure if Nintendo made a game specfically for touchscreen devices they could do it well.

Ignore the console FUD for a moment, and focus on mobile. The DS is portable. The iPhone is portable. They both get lumped in to this mobile market. This is incorrect. But this is how it gets treated, so let's talk about it that way.

The problem is pretty simple. DS games cost, on average, $30. 3DS games jumped that up to $40. Your average iOS/Android game is somewhere between Free and $10. On the surface, that looks pretty damning. But it actually gets worse.

I have Scribblenauts on my iPhone. I paid $1 for it. It contains a mix of levels from Scribblenauts, and Super Scribbenauts, with all of the extra adjective functionality that Super brought to the table. They released 20 more levels a few weeks ago, for another $1. Plus they've patched it twice with extra Christmas content, and just yesterday with Valentines content. Total investment: $2, and I keep getting content added either for free or pay. Even if it wasn't on sale, the game starts at $5 or 7 (I forget)

Meanwhile. The DS versions are stuck with what they shipped with, debuted at $30 a piece. No updates. No bug fixes. No extra content without developing, producing, publishing, releasing, shipping, and me purchasing another physical cart. And that's the problem. The iOS and Android versions of games are offering a better experience, better support, AND at a lower price tag.

Scribblenauts is not the only example of this. There's also the Pop Cap catalog, like such as Plants vs. Zombies. Plus old SNES era RPGs that are getting ports - games that once propped up Nintendo's Golden Age of RPGs - now available, for cheaper, on your phone.

Lord Dimwit: One thing that bothers me about the 3D fad is that I can't see in 3D (blind in one eye), so...Yeah. I don't really want to pay for a dimension I'm not going to use.

I know this makes me a callous asshole but I really wanna find a way to co-opt this.

"One thing that bothers me about the time fad is that I can't see the future, so... Yeah. I don't really want to pay for a dimension I'm not going to use.

Carth: They announced it (new window) as "sold" not "downloaded". If you have a link that shows only 20 million paid downloads I'd love to see it.

Looking at the list of Best Selling DS Games (new window) the top 10 are all first party games. The first third party game is Dragon Quest which only sold 1.01 million outside Japan.

On IOS Fruit Ninja has 20 million sales (new window) Doodle Jump has over 10 million (new window) and and tap tap revenge is at 15 million.

I loved my gameboy but there are better alternatives now. It is foolish to think Nintendo consoles are anything other than devices to buy Nintendo games.

First, your source is Kotaku (lol) and it has no source reference.

Here is a source from an actual news site:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/02/us-rovio-idUSTRE7A137Q20111 1 02

Note it says 500 million downloads, not sales.


http://www.macstories.net/news/angry-birds-12-million-copies-sold-mos t -on-ios/

Here's one that actually talks about sales.


http://www.gamespot.com/news/dragon-quest-ix-sales-top-53-million-630 4 548

Also, your DS numbers are misleading. DQ IX, for instance, has done almost 5.5 million as of last March, probably a lot more than that now. And yes, Nintendo games sell well. Nintendo is one of the premiere software developers in the world. They've been making games longer than any other company on the market today, and many of the veterans from the 80s and 90s are still with the company.


Lastly, so fruit Ninja has sold 10 million copies. Like I asked before, tell me how much profit that is at 1 dollar per sale (-33% for Apple's cut). Now go and evaluate the profit a 3rd party company makes on just 1 million sales at 20-30 dollar profit per sale (actual profit).

bittermang: Ignore the console FUD for a moment, and focus on mobile. The DS is portable. The iPhone is portable. They both get lumped in to this mobile market. This is incorrect. But this is how it gets treated, so let's talk about it that way.

The problem is pretty simple. DS games cost, on average, $30. 3DS games jumped that up to $40. Your average iOS/Android game is somewhere between Free and $10. On the surface, that looks pretty damning. But it actually gets worse.

I have Scribblenauts on my iPhone. I paid $1 for it. It contains a mix of levels from Scribblenauts, and Super Scribbenauts, with all of the extra adjective functionality that Super brought to the table. They released 20 more levels a few weeks ago, for another $1. Plus they've patched it twice with extra Christmas content, and just yesterday with Valentines content. Total investment: $2, and I keep getting content added either for free or pay. Even if it wasn't on sale, the game starts at $5 or 7 (I forget)

Meanwhile. The DS versions are stuck with what they shipped with, debuted at $30 a piece. No updates. No bug fixes. No extra content without developing, producing, publishing, releasing, shipping, and me purchasing another physical cart. And that's the problem. The iOS and Android versions of games are offering a better experience, better support, AND at a lower price tag.

Scribblenauts is not the only example of this. There's also the Pop Cap catalog, like such as Plants vs. Zombies. Plus old SNES era RPGs that are getting ports - games that once propped up Nintendo's Golden Age of RPGs - now available, for cheaper, on your phone.

ports in general suck on the iphone imo, the best games so far for me are games talored for the device, virtual d-pads, virtual sticks or ports of DS games play so poorly

i'd play run roo run over scribblenauts any day of the week

Nintendo needs to worry about moving some new IP more than anything else. You can only sell Zelda remakes so many times.

Lord Dimwit: I have an Android phone and, while the games scene is slowly improving, it's not great yet. The gaming scene on the iPhone is pretty good - Monkey Island, Broken Sword, Civilization Revolution...all these are excellent games, and games I very much enjoy playing. I would be ecstatic if those games came out for Android. I would buy an iPhone, but I don't want to be locked into the Apple ecosystem.

I own an iTouch for Mp3/Games for that reason. I wanted an Android phone (which was rooted and flashed with Cyanogen), but I also didn't want to drain the battery via constantly running its screen. Plus iDevices player nicer with steering wheel controls on cars. It basically was a pricey portable hard drive in my view.

/also the shows I buy on iTunes only work on iDevices, farking DRM

ha-ha-guy: Nintendo needs to worry about moving some new IP more than anything else. You can only sell Zelda remakes so many times.

I'm fine with the same IP as long as the games are fresh. Mario exists in many, many iterations on many systems, but they made Mario Galaxy and Mario Galaxy 2 fresh as ever. I will never complain about old IP as long as the games themselves are fun. That's all I ask for in a game.

They have some hits on their hands already, MH tri-g, Mario 3d, and Mk7 all were high sellers, and they managed to move 15 million 3d's last year.

What's hurting them is the game attach rates are lower then expected, the massive price cut ate into profits, and they are standing a ton developing the Wii U.

Not a huge deal really, it can be solved. They just need more quality software for the 3ds to get that attach rate up, as well as they need one hell of an E3 to get people to buy a Wii U, and not sit on the fence to see what the ps4 and xbox 720 bring to the table.

NeoCortex42: imashark: Carth: Handheld consoles were great 5 years ago but with smartphones and ipod touches they are redundant. Nintendo would be better off making games for devices people already own instead of trying to sell another $200 zelda player.

THIS.

And I swear to god, if Game Freak releases another heavily pixellated Pokemon game because they're too lazy to hire a metric ton of animators to make the game look good, I will never buy one of their games again.

/Why yes, I play Pokemon. Its not a bad mindless RPG
//Considering the Final Fantasy franchise has gone to shiat

Pokemon games have just gotten lazy. I've owned two of them, one of the GBA games and one of the DS games. They were almost exactly the same game aside from a larger pokedex and a couple new game mechanics. The story and progression were almost identical, as were the battle graphics/sounds. The pokemon games aren't bad as far as RPGs go, but they shouldn't still have the GameBoy level screeching audio and static battles at this point. What they need to do is wipe the board and build the next one from the ground up. Trimming the pokedex at this point would probably be a good thing.

i actually think Pokemon would be an awesome mmorpg, just because you as a Trainer don't level up, you pick up things that level up. so you have 300 things to try to get to level 100. I would pay $15 a month to play.

Nintendo is Segaing themselves out of the console business.

Get ready for Mario on PS3.

mxwjs:
i actually think Pokemon would be an awesome mmorpg, just because you as a Trainer don't level up, you pick up things that level up. so you have 300 things to try to get to level 100. I would pay $15 a month to play.

It's a great idea, but would never work. Since it's a title geared towards children and is a Nintendo property, the online component of it would be terrible. I'm hoping Nintendo revamps their online strategy with the Wii-U. The Friends Code scheme is annoying.

mxwjs: i actually think Pokemon would be an awesome mmorpg, just because you as a Trainer don't level up, you pick up things that level up. so you have 300 things to try to get to level 100. I would pay $15 a month to play.

I'm cringing at the though of some idiot balancing the game makes it so it takes 30 hours to level one creature up to max level.


Who has the time to do such a thing?

/"It's called Profit Maximization. Also, whoring."

mxwjs:
i actually think Pokemon would be an awesome mmorpg, just because you as a Trainer don't level up, you pick up things that level up. so you have 300 things to try to get to level 100. I would pay $15 a month to play.

BIG FAT HEAPING LOAD O' THIS. I've had this idea for a while, actually:

Step 1: Pokemon MMO for PC and Wii. This creates The Pokemon Trainers' Network. Charge $9.99/month for a basic account. This allows for 25 total captured Pokemon, and your character can hold up to 4 Poke-Balls at a time. For $10.99/month you get 50/4, $11.99 for 75/4, $12.99 for 100/5, $13.99 for 150/5, and $14.99 for 200/6.

All accounts will, aside from the limitations defined above, be equal. So while a guy may only have 25 pokemon and 4 at one time, they can be of equal capability as those of higher-paying accounts.

Create achievements, and have big ones based on captured pokemon (go by account history, so that the size of one's maximum Pokemon inventory doesn't matter -- again, equal without being equal) These trainer achievements will help players unlock new areas in the game, as well as finding undiscovered Pokemon. Couple this with head-to-head matchup rating systems, and your trainer never "levels up" - the reputation of your character is what leads to more advanced areas of the game, while the Pokemon themselves level up.

Step 2: New Pokemon "offline" games for handhelds, phones, etc. Let these games connect to your Pokemon Network account, allowing you to get your pets from the MMO, get them stuff in the "offline" games, and reupload them to the Network.

Step 3: Release an expansion pack with new exploration areas and 15-20 new Pokemon every 6 months. Release them for the Wii a week or two before the PC, to entice people to purchase your failing console. You may also want to have some kind of special trainer skins for the different versions.

Each expansion will have two "versions" to it that are purchasable. Only one "version" of an expansion may apply to a character's account, though. Each "version" will have exclusive Pokemon, like the original Game Boy series. The only way for players of A to get the Pokemon exclusive to B (and vice versa) is by trading with players, either through the MMO or by trading within a Trainers' Network-enabled Pokemon game.

There, we just saved Nintendo.

make new game cube and N64 Mario games
we all still have them!

love the paper mario games on GC N64

natmar_76: Carth: They announced it (new window) as "sold" not "downloaded". If you have a link that shows only 20 million paid downloads I'd love to see it.

Looking at the list of Best Selling DS Games (new window) the top 10 are all first party games. The first third party game is Dragon Quest which only sold 1.01 million outside Japan.

On IOS Fruit Ninja has 20 million sales (new window) Doodle Jump has over 10 million (new window) and and tap tap revenge is at 15 million.

I loved my gameboy but there are better alternatives now. It is foolish to think Nintendo consoles are anything other than devices to buy Nintendo games.

First, your source is Kotaku (lol) and it has no source reference.

Here is a source from an actual news site:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/02/us-rovio-idUSTRE7A137Q20111 1 02

Note it says 500 million downloads, not sales.


http://www.macstories.net/news/angry-birds-12-million-copies-sold-mos t -on-ios/

Here's one that actually talks about sales.


http://www.gamespot.com/news/dragon-quest-ix-sales-top-53-million-630 4 548

Also, your DS numbers are misleading. DQ IX, for instance, has done almost 5.5 million as of last March, probably a lot more than that now. And yes, Nintendo games sell well. Nintendo is one of the premiere software developers in the world. They've been making games longer than any other company on the market today, and many of the veterans from the 80s and 90s are still with the company.


Lastly, so fruit Ninja has sold 10 million copies. Like I asked before, tell me how much profit that is at 1 dollar per sale (-33% for Apple's cut). Now go and evaluate the profit a 3rd party company makes on just 1 million sales at 20-30 dollar profit per sale (actual profit).

Yes but how much did fruit Ninja cost to develop compared to how much an average DS or 3DS game costs to develop and put to market....

Right, because I'm totally going to buy an expensive handheld gaming device that plays $20 games when my phone is more powerful, has a better screen, and has a wider selection of games, most of which cost less than $4.

MrEricSir: Right, because I'm totally going to buy an expensive handheld gaming device that plays $20 games when my phone is more powerful, has a better screen, and has a wider selection of games, most of which cost less than $4.

Thank you.

natmar_76: Carth: They announced it (new window) as "sold" not "downloaded". If you have a link that shows only 20 million paid downloads I'd love to see it.

Looking at the list of Best Selling DS Games (new window) the top 10 are all first party games. The first third party game is Dragon Quest which only sold 1.01 million outside Japan.

On IOS Fruit Ninja has 20 million sales (new window) Doodle Jump has over 10 million (new window) and and tap tap revenge is at 15 million.

I loved my gameboy but there are better alternatives now. It is foolish to think Nintendo consoles are anything other than devices to buy Nintendo games.

First, your source is Kotaku (lol) and it has no source reference.

Here is a source from an actual news site:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/02/us-rovio-idUSTRE7A137Q20111 1 02

Note it says 500 million downloads, not sales.


http://www.macstories.net/news/angry-birds-12-million-copies-sold-mos t -on-ios/

Here's one that actually talks about sales.


http://www.gamespot.com/news/dragon-quest-ix-sales-top-53-million-630 4 548

Also, your DS numbers are misleading. DQ IX, for instance, has done almost 5.5 million as of last March, probably a lot more than that now. And yes, Nintendo games sell well. Nintendo is one of the premiere software developers in the world. They've been making games longer than any other company on the market today, and many of the veterans from the 80s and 90s are still with the company.


Lastly, so fruit Ninja has sold 10 million copies. Like I asked before, tell me how much profit that is at 1 dollar per sale (-33% for Apple's cut). Now go and evaluate the profit a 3rd party company makes on just 1 million sales at 20-30 dollar profit per sale (actual profit).

Your assertion is bolded. You have the makings of a solid argument, but you need to source your margin.

Game releases by console maker per year.


/Never bothered to update it for 2010/2011 data.

/Size of each pie represents the total number of games released.

/Segments of the pie indicate which console/handheld.

/Note the DS becoming huge, then getting beaten back by the Wii.

/Natural progression

Anarchangel: Nintendo is Segaing themselves out of the console business.

Get ready for Mario on PS3.

onlive will put everybody out of business anyways

/you'll get over it

1. Nintendo makes a quality Pokemon game to play against others on my phone.

2. I give Nintendo all my money.

What we are seeing and living through is technology that has come to a point where you don't need a great big gamebox or tower to do activities (gaming, internet, banking & bill paying, etc) to do things that you used to have to have these large pieces of hardware for. We are seeing the squeeze put to orgs like Dell, HP, Nintendo, Sony, MS by orgs like Apple and Google. This is just the inevitable results of this. It will continue for awhile, similar to how Kodak/Olympus got squeezed out of the photography industry due to technology.

Today, sure, you can only play casual games on handheld systems, but Moore's Law is at work every day chipping away at what is possible on hand helds.

Expect to see many more tales of woe from legacy organizations who have not been able to adapt to new technology.

And of course, churning out the same Mario/Zelda/casula FPS games every year doesn't help.

Goodfella:
Today, sure, you can only play casual games on handheld systems, but Moore's Law is at work every day chipping away at what is possible on hand helds.

Expect to see many more tales of woe from legacy organizations who have not been able to adapt to new technology.

And of course, churning out the same Mario/Zelda/casula FPS games every year doesn't help.

I still have a DS as well as a 360 and a Wii not just because of the processing speed/graphics, but also a matter of design. I prefer to play most games sitting on my couch with an actual controller in my hands and viewing it on my main television. Even with handhelds, I still want buttons when playing a game. The touchscreen is great as a supplemental input, but I still prefer actual physical buttons for most gameplay. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

AdamK: Anarchangel: Nintendo is Segaing themselves out of the console business.

Get ready for Mario on PS3.

onlive will put everybody out of business anyways

/you'll get over it

Pass. The lag ruins it.

Anarchangel: Nintendo is Segaing themselves out of the console business.

Get ready for Mario on PS3.

This is a repeat from every year since 1989. And they're always wrong.

Phantoms5000: I've tried playing Super Mario World on a touchscreen using an Android SNES emulator. Serious suckage (the controls, not the game).

At the same time, Fruit Ninja is similarly unplayable with a SNES controller. Touchscreen devices are better for different types of games, so you really can't write them off just because they can't play Mario well.

natmar_76: Carth: Angry Birds, the biggest seller on IOS/Andriod, sold half a billion copies before this Christmas season.

No, it was downloaded (the free version) that many times. Actual sales are far less, about 20 million.

The free version on Android is ad supported, so over the long term Rovio probably makes more money from them thanks to ad impressions than the people who bought it for a $1 for the iPhone.

Gilligann: Sure it's fine for games like Angry birds or Bejeweled, but any games that require precision makes touch screen gaming completely inferior to a dedicated handheld game system. There is no comparison.

But you're right, those games with shiat controls sure do cost less.

Controls? It's not like you're going to be playing an FPS on a handheld system. If you have enough time for that, you have enough time to fire up your laptop and play a "real" game.

Gilligann: I don't know about you, but I find handhelds much easier to use while waiting for a bus, riding in a car, or being anywhere I want a quick gaming fix.

Exactly -- if you want a "quick gaming fix" you're not going to be playing anything that requires complex controls. That's something like 90% of the game market right there.