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(New York Daily News)   America: Love it or leave it*. *$450 charge for leaving it   (nydailynews.com) divider line 136
    More: Asinine, State Department, passports, U.S. citizenship  
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16339 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Feb 2012 at 10:55 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-03 09:16:21 AM  
Does anybody else get the feeling that our government is running a protection racket like in those old mob movies?
 
2012-02-03 09:22:09 AM  
Frakkin' hell! $82 to add pages to a passport?? That's pretty ridiculous.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-02-03 09:23:03 AM  
Not really. Most people who renounce US citizenship do it for tax purposes, so $450 is nothing for them and it does take time to process.
 
2012-02-03 09:34:41 AM  

jaylectricity: Does anybody else get the feeling that our government is running a protection racket like in those old mob movies?


Dont all governments?

"You know the gang, and the government are no different" ~Jane's Addiction, one percent
 
2012-02-03 09:52:14 AM  
$82 bucks for passport pages? If those rich pigs can afford to travel international and spend all the money they stole from America in foreign lands, then I think we should take a fee. It's only fair.
 
2012-02-03 10:50:02 AM  

Bukharin: jaylectricity: Does anybody else get the feeling that our government is running a protection racket like in those old mob movies?

Dont all governments?

"You know the gang, and the government are no different" ~Jane's Addiction, one percent


Yeah, but they used to be better about disguising it and making it seem like they were protecting us for our sake and not for theirs.
 
2012-02-03 10:58:33 AM  
Why is the government even allowed to levy fees? That's what taxes are for.
 
2012-02-03 10:58:38 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: $82 bucks for passport pages? If those rich pigs can afford to travel international and spend all the money they stole from America in foreign lands, then I think we should take a fee. It's only fair.


Honestly, if you have money to fill a passport with Visas, you have money to add pages. I know people that travel abroad 4+ times a year, and have never once filled a passport.
 
2012-02-03 10:59:12 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: $82 bucks for passport pages? If those rich pigs can afford to travel international and spend all the money they stole from America in foreign lands, then I think we should take a fee. It's only fair.


You've never been on a Carnival cruise before, have you?
 
2012-02-03 11:00:35 AM  

Honest Bender: Why is the government even allowed to levy fees? That's what taxes are for.


Why should people who don't travel abroad pay for the passports of those who do? How's that fair?
 
2012-02-03 11:01:06 AM  

vpb: Not really. Most people who renounce US citizenship do it for tax purposes, so $450 is nothing for them and it does take time to process.


They still have the right to refuse to allow you to renounce your citizenship if they think you're doing it for tax purposes.
 
2012-02-03 11:01:32 AM  

mamoru: Frakkin' hell! $82 to add pages to a passport?? That's pretty ridiculous.


Agreed.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: $82 bucks for passport pages? If those rich pigs can afford to travel international and spend all the money they stole from America in foreign lands, then I think we should take a fee. It's only fair.


You don't have to be rich to travel internationally. When you marry someone from a foreign country you will probably end up traveling to that country every so often even if you're only middle class.
 
2012-02-03 11:03:21 AM  
DAMN! They are nickeling and diming ex-pats!

Along with these new tax rules, being an ex-pat is becoming a nightmare. :( What's the point anymore?
 
2012-02-03 11:04:22 AM  

meanmutton: Honest Bender: Why is the government even allowed to levy fees? That's what taxes are for.

Why should people who don't travel abroad pay for the passports of those who do? How's that fair?


Why does it have to be fair?
 
2012-02-03 11:04:39 AM  
I was more interested in the last line of the article. As someone who might have to sell my house while living overseas, I'm really getting a kick out of these replies having to pay some embassy drone fifty farking dollars a page to notarize the 700 pages of closing documents.

When you consider that in most states notaries are legally allowed to charge no more than $5-10 per page, that's just highway farking robbery.
 
2012-02-03 11:04:42 AM  
When the Soviet Union wanted to keep people from East Germany defecting into West Germany, they built a big wall that became a symbol of oppression around the world. A socialism doesn't work unless you can force everyone to participate at gunpoint.

When people start getting sick of the creeping socialism in America and start leaving, a big wall is just too obvious, so instead lets impose fees for renouncing citizenship. For now.

$450 is better than getting machine gunned in the back as you run, but let's see where it goes from here.
 
2012-02-03 11:05:39 AM  

vpb: Not really. Most people who renounce US citizenship do it for tax purposes, so $450 is nothing for them and it does take time to process.


This.

It's just a fark you to the ex-pats.
 
2012-02-03 11:07:13 AM  

mavexe: The Stealth Hippopotamus: $82 bucks for passport pages? If those rich pigs can afford to travel international and spend all the money they stole from America in foreign lands, then I think we should take a fee. It's only fair.

Honestly, if you have money to fill a passport with Visas, you have money to add pages. I know people that travel abroad 4+ times a year, and have never once filled a passport.


Passports get filled when you do multiple-country trips, not a bunch of single journeys.

For example, a post-college Eurotrip that ends up going east (where things are cheaper) will quickly generate pages and pages of stamps. A trip through SE Asia (also cheap) will also fill pages.

I've had to add pages to a passport, and my yearly income has never cracked $30k.

I wonder if it's still free to add pages at the embassy...
 
2012-02-03 11:07:58 AM  
In no way is this related to the recent change to Canada travel requirements.
 
2012-02-03 11:08:52 AM  
Ha! Ha! Sucks to be a Conservative under Obama!

I had no idea there was a fee to renounce your citizenship, but it makes sense. Get them coming and going, that's the name of the service charge game. Just ask a banker.

I'm going to have to check to see if there's a charge for renouncing Canadian citizenship. I know a passport is $95 because I have the forms. I might want to join my family in a shopping trip or dinner and a movie some day.

Not that I intend to renounce Canadian citizenship. The Government may be pretty poor at getting you out of trouble, especially when it's Conservative and assumes that to be charged is proof of guilt, but there's no reason to not hold onto it. Even Lord Black of Cross Harbour and Lady Babs know that--now.

Conservatives give up their citizenship easily because they think it's easy to get it back and that even if they don't all they have to do is triapse across the border looking a whiter shade of pale and they'll be given citizenship by some damned Democrat. Ha! I bet some of them find it ain't so.

I wish Rush Limbaugh would scurry his fat ass off to Costa Rica like he said he would if Obamacare became law. He could enjoy the free medical care of another socialist country--a poor socialist country, but a decent, passable poor socialist country, and see if he really likes it better than the high price, high quality USA model.

I be he wouldn't. Because he's a fat-headed fugly redneck whinger who feels entitled to everything that he calls "entitlements" with derision when anybody else asks for it.
 
2012-02-03 11:09:04 AM  
You are all honorary members of NAMBLA. If you wish to leave the organization, please complete a renunciation form and send it, along with $10, to....
 
2012-02-03 11:10:36 AM  

Torqueknot: vpb: Not really. Most people who renounce US citizenship do it for tax purposes, so $450 is nothing for them and it does take time to process.

This.

It's just a fark you to the ex-pats.


Not at all true. You're thinking of people who were born and raised in the US and moved elsewhere for whatever reason. But you have to remember that the US has birthright citizenship. There are also rules for sons/daughters of US citizens living elsewhere.

This is a huge problem for lots of Canadians. And specifically, NOT people who are high income earners. It's ordinary folks who in some cases might not have even realize the US considers them citizens. They have never lived in the US in their life. They don't want US citizenship. There are huge tax penalties for not reporting their Canadian income. And now there's a cost to get rid of something they acquired through no fault of their own and from which they have derived no benefit in their lives.

Stay classy, US government.
 
2012-02-03 11:10:44 AM  

jagec:

I wonder if it's still free to add pages at the embassy...


No it isn't. You can't walk in and do it anymore either you need to set up an appointment.
 
2012-02-03 11:12:03 AM  
Peasants have no rights.
 
2012-02-03 11:12:14 AM  

shortymac: DAMN! They are nickeling and diming ex-pats!

Along with these new tax rules, being an ex-pat is becoming a nightmare. :( What's the point anymore?


If Romney/Trump win 2012 the point will be clear and $450 will seem like a bargain.
 
2012-02-03 11:12:39 AM  
has anyone other than rich tycoons who want to incorporate in aruba ever renounced american citizenship?

/that does suck about passport pages, mine is almost full and i still have seven years left on it...
 
2012-02-03 11:13:00 AM  

Honest Bender: meanmutton: Honest Bender: Why is the government even allowed to levy fees? That's what taxes are for.

Why should people who don't travel abroad pay for the passports of those who do? How's that fair?

Why does it have to be fair?


Oh, in that case -- why doesn't the government just tax every individual in the country $1 and then give it to me?
 
2012-02-03 11:13:32 AM  
Hey, it's gonna cost me to get my citizenship (and I do pay taxes, even without it), so fk those ppl who want to denounce their citizenships to get out of paying taxes. I recommend charging them a couple grand just because.
 
2012-02-03 11:13:58 AM  

vpb: Not really. Most people who renounce US citizenship do it for tax purposes, so $450 is nothing for them and it does take time to process.


Not an excuse to charge for it though. They'll collect a piddly compared to what the people doing it are concealing for tax purposes.

And, since this is happening, the government decides to penalize everyone? I'm not getting it. This is just like Sprint or your cable company adding extra fees they hope you don't see and/or complain about.

I'm sure the State Department will just say that it's because of the economy, bla bla, bla, but the reason why we have such a lousy economy right now is because of all the greedy rich bastards who left a scorched earth behind them as they bailed out.

"Home Of The Free" my ass. Freedom also means the ability to leave without any penalty.

/wonders if they'll charge all Texans this fee when we secede....
 
2012-02-03 11:14:52 AM  
You would only renounce your citizenship in most cases if you were trying to protect a shiat ton of money from taxes so doubt it really matters to them. Curious how many people a year actually renounce their citizenship.
 
2012-02-03 11:15:15 AM  
nonetheless, as a currently living abroad fellow, why should i not have to pay for our consular services? the us passport gets me into basically any country i'd want to go, without having to apply for a visa, which can be very expensive and complicated for non-americans, non-eu, non-anglosphere citizens. should joe the plumber or mary the planned parenthood employee, who haven't the means or motive to travel, have to subsidize my globetrotting?
 
2012-02-03 11:15:15 AM  

mamoru: Frakkin' hell! $82 to add pages to a passport?? That's pretty ridiculous.


My passport is only 3 years old and I already have two extra books pasted into it and I doubt they'd paste in another. Countries that require Visas pasted into your book also want the facing page clean, so I need the space. China especially sucks this way because I need a new visa every time I enter -- I've got three Chinese visas in there already and I'm getting another this year. I'm glad my employer is paying for it.
 
2012-02-03 11:16:37 AM  
This really sounds suspicious. I mean, I'm all-for usage fees for non-infrastructure services, but I'd like to see a full detailed breakdown of where they're coming up with those numbers.

The paranoid conspiracy theorist in me thinks it's a way of preventing poor people from making a rush across our near borders when shiat starts going down.

But that's a ridiculous idea, so I just tell him to shut up and get more tin foil.

/little does he know, foil isn't made from tin any more
//all part of the plan...
 
2012-02-03 11:17:21 AM  
It costs about the same amount to renew a green card.
 
2012-02-03 11:17:47 AM  

Headso: You would only renounce your citizenship in most cases if you were trying to protect a shiat ton of money from taxes so doubt it really matters to them. Curious how many people a year actually renounce their citizenship.


About 1500 last year. The US is the only industrialized country in the world you're required to pay federal income tax on income made while living and working overseas even if you never set foot in the country.
 
2012-02-03 11:18:36 AM  
Well, I'm back from the Canadian Government's Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada site.

There is a two-track system. If you are eligible, you can take the fast track and do not pay a fee. If you are not eligible, you pay $100 for the more thorough version for people born Canadian citizens. Got that? Streamlined, free service for those of you who "acquired or reacquired your citizenship as a result of changes to the Citizenship Act that took effect on April 17, 2009, you may be eligible to apply to renounce your citizenship through the streamlined renunciation process. This process is available, at no fee, to adults born before February 15, 1977, who automatically became Canadian under the new law and who are citizens of another country."

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/renounce-how.asp

***

"The fee is $100 for the general application to renounce Canadian citizenship. There is no fee for those who are eligible to apply to renounce through the streamlined process."

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/renounce-how.asp

***

Isn't that typically Tory and Canadian. They'll bend over backwards to help you ... out of the country.

Just had a thought: maybe the Great Obamanation could help a few conservative Americans along their merry way.

It was just a thought. As a Canadian I don't expect anybody to actually listen to my natterings.

After seeing what the Tories have done to facilitate the process of renouncing Canadian citizenship, I must say it makes me proud to be able to renounce Canadian citizenship -- for a price, while so many less fortunate Canadians can do it for free. I would like to thank our Stephen Harper(TM) Government of Canada some way. I am willing to waive all fees for pushing them off in the Arctic Ocean on a small rubber dinghy, with a letter of recommendation to the officials in Putinist Russia.

I'll even be happy to fly North and waive a little Canadian flag and shout Huzzah! three times as they go.
 
2012-02-03 11:18:54 AM  

Maneck: Torqueknot: vpb: Not really. Most people who renounce US citizenship do it for tax purposes, so $450 is nothing for them and it does take time to process.

This.

It's just a fark you to the ex-pats.

Not at all true. You're thinking of people who were born and raised in the US and moved elsewhere for whatever reason. But you have to remember that the US has birthright citizenship. There are also rules for sons/daughters of US citizens living elsewhere.

This is a huge problem for lots of Canadians. And specifically, NOT people who are high income earners. It's ordinary folks who in some cases might not have even realize the US considers them citizens. They have never lived in the US in their life. They don't want US citizenship. There are huge tax penalties for not reporting their Canadian income. And now there's a cost to get rid of something they acquired through no fault of their own and from which they have derived no benefit in their lives.

Stay classy, US government.


That's a really good point. I wonder if they're going to start going after "citizens" soon...

/I needz moar foilz
 
2012-02-03 11:20:46 AM  
A $450 fee for being stupid doesn't sound unreasonable. Renouncing your citizenship is as moronic as seeking de-baptism. Don't want to be an American anymore? Fine; emigrate to another country and become a citizen there. No one will ever know.
 
2012-02-03 11:20:52 AM  

Maneck: Torqueknot: vpb: Not really. Most people who renounce US citizenship do it for tax purposes, so $450 is nothing for them and it does take time to process.

This.

It's just a fark you to the ex-pats.

Not at all true. You're thinking of people who were born and raised in the US and moved elsewhere for whatever reason. But you have to remember that the US has birthright citizenship. There are also rules for sons/daughters of US citizens living elsewhere.

This is a huge problem for lots of Canadians. And specifically, NOT people who are high income earners. It's ordinary folks who in some cases might not have even realize the US considers them citizens. They have never lived in the US in their life. They don't want US citizenship. There are huge tax penalties for not reporting their Canadian income. And now there's a cost to get rid of something they acquired through no fault of their own and from which they have derived no benefit in their lives.

Stay classy, US government.


Is it that hard to simply not cross into the US? It's not like the IRS has jurisdiction in Quebec.
 
2012-02-03 11:21:25 AM  

proteus_b: nonetheless, as a currently living abroad fellow, why should i not have to pay for our consular services? the us passport gets me into basically any country i'd want to go, without having to apply for a visa, which can be very expensive and complicated for non-americans, non-eu, non-anglosphere citizens. should joe the plumber or mary the planned parenthood employee, who haven't the means or motive to travel, have to subsidize my globetrotting?


To renounce you need to have, or have the right to, citizenship in another country. A Canadian passport gets you into every country a US one can plus a few more like Cuba and North Korea.

Why should you have to pay $450 to tell the embassy you don't want to receive their services? It is like an early termination fee for a contract you never agreed to.
 
2012-02-03 11:22:23 AM  

GORDON: When the Soviet Union wanted to keep people from East Germany defecting into West Germany, they built a big wall that became a symbol of oppression around the world. A socialism doesn't work unless you can force everyone to participate at gunpoint.

When people start getting sick of the creeping socialism in America and start leaving, a big wall is just too obvious, so instead lets impose fees for renouncing citizenship. For now.

$450 is better than getting machine gunned in the back as you run, but let's see where it goes from here.


Wow, are any existing European social democracies having to impede a mass exodus at the moment?
 
2012-02-03 11:23:11 AM  

brantgoose: Well, I'm back from the Canadian Government's Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada site.

There is a two-track system. If you are eligible, you can take the fast track and do not pay a fee. If you are not eligible, you pay $100 for the more thorough version for people born Canadian citizens. Got that? Streamlined, free service for those of you who "acquired or reacquired your citizenship as a result of changes to the Citizenship Act that took effect on April 17, 2009, you may be eligible to apply to renounce your citizenship through the streamlined renunciation process. This process is available, at no fee, to adults born before February 15, 1977, who automatically became Canadian under the new law and who are citizens of another country."

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/renounce-how.asp

***

"The fee is $100 for the general application to renounce Canadian citizenship. There is no fee for those who are eligible to apply to renounce through the streamlined process."

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/renounce-how.asp

***

Isn't that typically Tory and Canadian. They'll bend over backwards to help you ... out of the country.

Just had a thought: maybe the Great Obamanation could help a few conservative Americans along their merry way.

It was just a thought. As a Canadian I don't expect anybody to actually listen to my natterings.


My dad became a Canadian citizen as part of that law change.
 
2012-02-03 11:24:00 AM  
Corzine floated the idea of a $50k tax for people who sold their home in NJ and bought their next home in another state.
 
2012-02-03 11:25:41 AM  

brantgoose: It was just a thought. As a Canadian I don't expect anybody to actually listen to my natterings.


Please. As a Canadian you know we'll listen politely to your natterings and then do whatever we were going to anyway.

/have you marked now as "nattering but usually insightful Canuck"
 
2012-02-03 11:25:42 AM  
Riigght... That oughta put a big dent in the trillions.
 
2012-02-03 11:25:44 AM  

TrojanRabbit: GORDON: When the Soviet Union wanted to keep people from East Germany defecting into West Germany, they built a big wall that became a symbol of oppression around the world. A socialism doesn't work unless you can force everyone to participate at gunpoint.

When people start getting sick of the creeping socialism in America and start leaving, a big wall is just too obvious, so instead lets impose fees for renouncing citizenship. For now.

$450 is better than getting machine gunned in the back as you run, but let's see where it goes from here.

Wow, are any existing European social democracies having to impede a mass exodus at the moment?


upload.wikimedia.org

Other than France and Ireland, yes.
 
2012-02-03 11:25:48 AM  
The IRS automatically sues everyone who attempts to renounce their US citizenship on the assumption that no one would do it except to avoid taxes.
 
2012-02-03 11:26:41 AM  

meanmutton: Honest Bender: Why is the government even allowed to levy fees? That's what taxes are for.

Why should people who don't travel abroad pay for the passports of those who do? How's that fair?


The idea that every taxpayer must personally benefit from a government expenditure doesn't withstand much scrutiny. I said something about how we airlifted $12 billion in cash to Iraq in another thread.
 
2012-02-03 11:28:01 AM  

Honest Bender: meanmutton: Honest Bender: Why is the government even allowed to levy fees? That's what taxes are for.

Why should people who don't travel abroad pay for the passports of those who do? How's that fair?

Why does it have to be fair?


i226.photobucket.com

Because butthurt!!!111
 
2012-02-03 11:29:23 AM  

Carth: Headso: You would only renounce your citizenship in most cases if you were trying to protect a shiat ton of money from taxes so doubt it really matters to them. Curious how many people a year actually renounce their citizenship.

About 1500 last year. The US is the only industrialized country in the world you're required to pay federal income tax on income made while living and working overseas even if you never set foot in the country.


we also don't offer socialized healthcare, it's a maaaad house!
 
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