I'm kind of amazed that "but jobs" is an effective counter to causing farking earthquakes.

Enjoy the cancer.

Messing with our drinking water is really the stupidest thing we could possibly do. Heck, even the people making millions/billions off this crap HAVE to know their hosing over the water supply long term. They just don't care...

worst.idea.ever.

ihatedumbpeople: Messing with our drinking water is really the stupidest thing we could possibly do. Heck, even the people making millions/billions off this crap HAVE to know their hosing over the water supply long term. They just don't care...

worst.idea.ever.

They'll buy bottled water. Ground water is for the peasant class.

I did learn one thing from TFA. At one time frac operators could just stream dump the waste water. Now I wonder how the watertable got polluted?

HotWingConspiracy: I'm kind of amazed that "but jobs" is an effective counter to causing farking earthquakes.

Hey. "But jobs" was an excuse not to end the Viet Nam war when it was clear it was lost. I remember the Times cover story.

/ lawn, etc

As your neighbor to the north could I kindly ask you stop peeing in your backyard?
Why yes my own yard is pretty clean...hey, what's the look for?

Goodfella: Enjoy the cancer.

ihatedumbpeople: Messing with our drinking water is really the stupidest thing we could possibly do. Heck, even the people making millions/billions off this crap HAVE to know their hosing over the water supply long term. They just don't care...

worst.idea.ever.

Disposal/injection wells are not drilled into aquifers that you get your drinking water from. They are drilled into formations that are more saline by orders of magnitude than the ocean, and they will take millions of years to discharge to surface.

As a geologist obey me, for I HAVE SPOKEN!

Would someone with a science background please explain to me what they mean when they say they want to 'govern" the wells? How can somebody govern the rocks under the earth and regulate how the rocks and soil react to human activity? I can understand governing the people who dig the wells, but that doesn't seem to do anything about the problems.

HotWingConspiracy: I'm kind of amazed that "but jobs" is an effective counter to causing farking earthquakes.

Same argument is used for continuing global warming, so that should hardly be a surprise.

Bennie Crabtree: Would someone with a science background please explain to me what they mean when they say they want to 'govern" the wells? How can somebody govern the rocks under the earth and regulate how the rocks and soil react to human activity? I can understand governing the people who dig the wells, but that doesn't seem to do anything about the problems.

Require testing of the wells when they are drilled and limit them to defined flow rates and volumes to minimize the possibility of adverse effects such as earthquakes. Happens all the time on wells in Alberta where I, oddly enough, am drilling a disposal well right now.

Representative of the unwashed masses: Goodfella: Enjoy the cancer.

ihatedumbpeople: Messing with our drinking water is really the stupidest thing we could possibly do. Heck, even the people making millions/billions off this crap HAVE to know their hosing over the water supply long term. They just don't care...

worst.idea.ever.

Disposal/injection wells are not drilled into aquifers that you get your drinking water from. They are drilled into formations that are more saline by orders of magnitude than the ocean, and they will take millions of years to discharge to surface.

As a geologist obey me, for I HAVE SPOKEN!

I'd really love more information on the topic. However if its so safe whats up with all the flammable water issues people are having?

abominare: Representative of the unwashed masses: Goodfella: Enjoy the cancer.

ihatedumbpeople: Messing with our drinking water is really the stupidest thing we could possibly do. Heck, even the people making millions/billions off this crap HAVE to know their hosing over the water supply long term. They just don't care...

worst.idea.ever.

Disposal/injection wells are not drilled into aquifers that you get your drinking water from. They are drilled into formations that are more saline by orders of magnitude than the ocean, and they will take millions of years to discharge to surface.

As a geologist obey me, for I HAVE SPOKEN!

I'd really love more information on the topic. However if its so safe whats up with all the flammable water issues people are having?

the article mentions that some companies used to be able to dispose of waste water in streams (or contain it on drill pads in open pits). since groundwater is recharged by infiltration from surface it is much more likely that those problems are from those causes or fracking. Fracking and disposal wells are simply too deep to realistically be connected to aquifers you drink out of.

Big feedlots old railyards etc. are also known to contaminate groundwater.

See?
You ignore that bad cubicle art and now this.

Goodfella: Enjoy the cancer.

That sounds counter-intuitive.

Representative of the unwashed masses: Goodfella: Enjoy the cancer.

ihatedumbpeople: Messing with our drinking water is really the stupidest thing we could possibly do. Heck, even the people making millions/billions off this crap HAVE to know their hosing over the water supply long term. They just don't care...

worst.idea.ever.

Disposal/injection wells are not drilled into aquifers that you get your drinking water from. They are drilled into formations that are more saline by orders of magnitude than the ocean, and they will take millions of years to discharge to surface.

As a geologist obey me, for I HAVE SPOKEN!



Glad to hear! You ought to move your family to live next to a fracking operation since it provides such an environmentally safe area to live in.

Goodfella: Representative of the unwashed masses: Goodfella: Enjoy the cancer.

ihatedumbpeople: Messing with our drinking water is really the stupidest thing we could possibly do. Heck, even the people making millions/billions off this crap HAVE to know their hosing over the water supply long term. They just don't care...

worst.idea.ever.

Disposal/injection wells are not drilled into aquifers that you get your drinking water from. They are drilled into formations that are more saline by orders of magnitude than the ocean, and they will take millions of years to discharge to surface.

As a geologist obey me, for I HAVE SPOKEN!



Glad to hear! You ought to move your family to live next to a fracking operation since it provides such an environmentally safe area to live in.

Knowing how it's regulated in Western Canada, no problem. I'll call your bluff.

Representative of the unwashed masses
2012-02-02 06:56:18 PM

"Knowing how it's regulated in Western Canada, no problem. I'll call your bluff."

As a non-geologist I am curious: Would they type of soil matter? For example, if western Canada and Ohio have different soils, then is it safe to use the same method in both locations?

MBA Whore: Representative of the unwashed masses
2012-02-02 06:56:18 PM

"Knowing how it's regulated in Western Canada, no problem. I'll call your bluff."

As a non-geologist I am curious: Would they type of soil matter? For example, if western Canada and Ohio have different soils, then is it safe to use the same method in both locations?

That's why you do the proper type of testing. Western Canada and Ohio are in different sedimentary basins so there will certainly be differences. The scientific method for determining how much you can dispose of in a well would be the same.

I have had several friends do work in the States on drilling projects and virtually every one of them tells me that regulations and safety procedures are lax compared to what I am used to here.

Representative of the unwashed masses: MBA Whore: Representative of the unwashed masses
2012-02-02 06:56:18 PM

"Knowing how it's regulated in Western Canada, no problem. I'll call your bluff."

As a non-geologist I am curious: Would they type of soil matter? For example, if western Canada and Ohio have different soils, then is it safe to use the same method in both locations?

That's why you do the proper type of testing. Western Canada and Ohio are in different sedimentary basins so there will certainly be differences. The scientific method for determining how much you can dispose of in a well would be the same.

I have had several friends do work in the States on drilling projects and virtually every one of them tells me that regulations and safety procedures are lax compared to what I am used to here.

One of my first tasks in my current job was to read Surface Production Operations volumes 1 and 2 and make a list of the recommended practices our company didn't follow for our customers. It was a pretty long list.

/PA USA

Ohio has a bunch of ancient river valleys running across it that were filled by ancient glaciers. That where most of the drinking water comes from. They are our aquafers. As long as we don't breach the Teays valley or on of it subsidiaries, we're good, right? RIGHT?

HotWingConspiracy: I'm kind of amazed that "but jobs" is an effective counter to causing farking earthquakes.

...or poisoning your aquifer.

fark, people are stupid. Maybe there's something in the water...

QTFA:

"Republican Governor John Kasich said that while he's not happy about the increasing volume of wastewater from neighboring states, the U.S. Constitution prohibits interference with shipments. He declined to speculate about what might be done."

fark me...

ihatedumbpeople: Messing with our drinking water is really the stupidest thing we could possibly do. Heck, even the people making millions/billions off this crap HAVE to know their hosing over the water supply long term. They just don't care...

worst.idea.ever.

What about the old saying you don't poop where you eat or drink? Why should the EPA be the ones to clean up the mess of the fracking companies when they contaminate drinking water? Yet the EPA can not stop fracking and it takes long court cases to enforce the charges against the fracking companies. Here's story where a whole town lost drinking water to fracking. Thanks Job Creators.

Where to the execs of these companies live? Put it there.

Speaking of waste-dumping in Ohio, did you see last year's Browns season?

Representative of the unwashed masses: Disposal/injection wells are not drilled into aquifers that you get your drinking water from. They are drilled into formations that are more saline by orders of magnitude than the ocean, and they will would have taken millions of years to discharge to surface.

As a geologist obey me, for I HAVE SPOKEN!

FTFY

Now that we've perforated the impermeable layers between those formations and the aquifer as well as triggered a few earthquakes you may want to update your estimates since the geology in some areas has changed a bit.

Goodfella: Representative of the unwashed masses: Goodfella: Enjoy the cancer.

ihatedumbpeople: Messing with our drinking water is really the stupidest thing we could possibly do. Heck, even the people making millions/billions off this crap HAVE to know their hosing over the water supply long term. They just don't care...

worst.idea.ever.

Disposal/injection wells are not drilled into aquifers that you get your drinking water from. They are drilled into formations that are more saline by orders of magnitude than the ocean, and they will take millions of years to discharge to surface.

As a geologist obey me, for I HAVE SPOKEN!



Glad to hear! You ought to move your family to live next to a fracking operation since it provides such an environmentally safe area to live in.

Yeah, that's the thing...all these people that say fracking is perfectly safe wouldn't dream of drinking water from towns near these wells. At least here...not sure about Canada and their regs...but pumping millions of gallons of toxic sludge into the ground, regardless of depth and relative location to aquifers, just seems like a BAD idea.

From the reports I've seen, even though the fracking wells don't discharge into aquifers, in most cases of water contamination, it seems that the cement well casing breaks down or is improperly formed, and that's where the contamination is happening, where the crappy casing intersects the aquifer. So I would suspend ops until you can make a reliable well casing system. What's that? Too expensive? Frack you, motherfarker, it's our WATER, goddamnit.

The problem thet the people in Pennsylvania is that they are drilling their water wells into coal formations in the first place. The natural formation of coal releases both methane and water. The water contained methane long before the drilling started. It just seeped out quickly early on in the process and then slowed to an almost indetecable amount. The fracking is most likely just loosening it up again. Think about how big the coal industry is in Penn where they are literally just digging holes or strip mining to get to it. It isn't that deep. Also thing about how the first oil well location was decided. It was just seeping to the surface. Neither of these sources are what the o&g companies are going after. These resources were drained years ago. they are going muiltiple layers of rock formations down. I'm not sure if people are simply imagining digging a hole into the ground and having Britta water come up, but if they are they need to realize that there is alot of natural, very bad stuff in groundwater (ranging from arsenic to radioactive materials). (new window) If they cared that much then they would have had the water sampled long ago and put filtration in if needed. The fact that they can't prove any changes shows that they didn't.

Now if it is because of casing issues, then those need to be resolved. There are always bad actors in any industry that should be appropriatly dealt with without bring the whole lot down.

Also, as far as fracking chemicals go, the issue will most likely be moot anyway (for forward looking issues, obvoiusly not alleged damage done). Halliburton creates fracking fluid from food grade chemicals (new window)

/not trying to argue sides just clarifying the issue. As always, the truth lies in the middle

Representative of the unwashed masses: MBA Whore: Representative of the unwashed masses
2012-02-02 06:56:18 PM

"Knowing how it's regulated in Western Canada, no problem. I'll call your bluff."

As a non-geologist I am curious: Would they type of soil matter? For example, if western Canada and Ohio have different soils, then is it safe to use the same method in both locations?

That's why you do the proper type of testing. Western Canada and Ohio are in different sedimentary basins so there will certainly be differences. The scientific method for determining how much you can dispose of in a well would be the same.

I have had several friends do work in the States on drilling projects and virtually every one of them tells me that regulations and safety procedures are lax compared to what I am used to here.

I've learned a lot about fracking from the likes of you Fark scientists and I thank you for that. But please note, we do not follow the rules as well in rural Pennsylvania, like you do in Alberta. Please be congnizant of that before telling those of us that support more strict regulation. Continue to educate the masses my friend!

I have actually changed my position on some of the fracking issues but still maintain the need for moderation.

plcow: The problem thet the people in Pennsylvania is that they are drilling their water wells into coal formations in the first place. The natural formation of coal releases both methane and water. The water contained methane long before the drilling started. It just seeped out quickly early on in the process and then slowed to an almost indetecable amount. The fracking is most likely just loosening it up again. Think about how big the coal industry is in Penn where they are literally just digging holes or strip mining to get to it. It isn't that deep. Also thing about how the first oil well location was decided. It was just seeping to the surface. Neither of these sources are what the o&g companies are going after. These resources were drained years ago. they are going muiltiple layers of rock formations down. I'm not sure if people are simply imagining digging a hole into the ground and having Britta water come up, but if they are they need to realize that there is alot of natural, very bad stuff in groundwater (ranging from arsenic to radioactive materials). (new window) If they cared that much then they would have had the water sampled long ago and put filtration in if needed. The fact that they can't prove any changes shows that they didn't.

Now if it is because of casing issues, then those need to be resolved. There are always bad actors in any industry that should be appropriatly dealt with without bring the whole lot down.

Also, as far as fracking chemicals go, the issue will most likely be moot anyway (for forward looking issues, obvoiusly not alleged damage done). Halliburton creates fracking fluid from food grade chemicals (new window)

/not trying to argue sides just clarifying the issue. As always, the truth lies in the middle

I have a friend that recently accepted a job with haliburton to work on frack sites. I'm glad I don't have to hate him anymore.

HotWingConspiracy: I'm kind of amazed that "but jobs" is an effective counter to causing farking earthquakes.

And poisoning the drinking water.

All this for an antiquated fuel source. That indian from the 80's commercials must be rolling in his grave.

89 Stick-Up Kid: All this for an antiquated fuel source. That indian Italian from the 80's commercials must be rolling in his grave.

FTFY