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(Fox News)   Couple sue In Vitro Fertilization Doctor for giving them what they wanted, but not how they wanted it   (foxnews.com) divider line 83
    More: Fail, IVF, duty of care, obstetricians, The Sydney Morning Herald  
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20290 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Feb 2012 at 8:08 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-02 10:33:20 AM  
Their intentions may be reasonable, but their way of expressing it is sad and sick.

I'm not all fuzzy-wuzzy about babies and parenthood and such, but damn, that is some cold-hearted crap to read.
"We love him, but wish he was dead."
Bloody hell, folks. My cynical side wonders why the kid didn't suffer an "accident" if they so much regret his birth.
They could have adopted a kid whose dad didn't give him damaged genes, the selfish wankers.
 
2012-02-02 10:36:23 AM  

MorrisBird: It sounds like alloimmune thrombocytopenia. This is a treatable condition, with a proper medical history of the parents. Remember how we used to have "blue babies" because Mom was A- and Dad A+? Kind of like that. Nowadays A- mothers just get a shot of Rhogam, and no more blue babies. With alloimmune thrombocytopenia, if mom is treated with intravenous gamma globulin during her pregnancy, no intracerebral bleeds in baby's brain. Healthy baby. I would say that the journalist leapt to a damned unfortunate conclusion without understanding the medicine. It's not a "wrongful birth." It's a failure to diagnose and treat alloimmune thrombocytopenia.


Well you are a festizio! See, I can make up words too.
 
2012-02-02 10:42:13 AM  

braedan:
Am I a monster for thinking this child should have been euthanized immediately after birth?

Sentencing a human being to a lifetime in this condition seems cruel to me.


Of course you're not. I've had to pull the plug on a family member before, and if the day comes that I'm in a persistent vegetative state I hope one of my kids plucks up the nerve to do the same for me. Or smother me with a pillow.

Before either of my kids were born, we paid for amniocentesis. The religious folks in North Georgia (everybody but us) scoffed, and asked if something had come back wrong, would you get an abortion? We said hell yes, which horrified them.

They said a mentally handicapped child was special and loving, etc, a gift from Heaven. We said we respected their opinion, but to us a mentally handicapped child was a shuffling, drooling abomination sent by the Lord of Hell to shadow our every step even unto Death, and that God had given us the means to avoid this happening to us or the child in question. If we did not avail ourselves of God's Help, we would have gotten what we deserved.

No offense meant to the upthread folks in this situation who were promoting it, of course, just a differing opinion to which I'm entitled.
 
2012-02-02 11:10:26 AM  

ajt167: ihatedumbpeople: dopeydwarf: So let me see if I have this straight: These people absolutely had to have a little bundle of joy of their very own, a doctor did his best to help them reach that goal, the child was born with a birth defect due to his father's shiatty genes, and now the parents are all butt hurt over it?

Maybe they should sue whatever god they believe in?

I"m thinking the same thing...the condition wasn't a side effect of the IVF, it was inherited from the father. Unless the doc was somehow legally obligated to screen their entire genetic makeup, I see no reason he'd be responsible. This could just as easily happened with natural birth.

See but that's the thing. When my wife got pregnant, they offered to do genetic screening to find out any risks. As far as I understand, IVF is more stringent and they make you do it and tell you about the genetic risks before they'll do the procedure. I could be wrong, but if this is the case and the doctor didn't convey those risks, he could be at fault.


As I mentioned above, apparently the thing was that the father had told the doctor about his genetic condition, but the doctor had not told them about the associated risks related to having a child with that condition. That said, it's also suggested that the stroke the son suffered might not have been related to the condition anyway, which would make the point moot, but it's not about what went wrong with the son, it's that the doctor did not perform due diligence in informing them about certain risks before undertaking the IVF proceedure. Even though those risks would not have been known had they conceived the old fashioned way, the argument is that the doctor should have talked to them when it had come up, which would have given them the information needed to make an informed decision about whether to go ahead with it. Still, it's a bit of a stretch about where a doctors due diligence ends, but it's not unfathomable.

Ithaca_StLondon: Their intentions may be reasonable, but their way of expressing it is sad and sick.

I'm not all fuzzy-wuzzy about babies and parenthood and such, but damn, that is some cold-hearted crap to read.
"We love him, but wish he was dead."
Bloody hell, folks. My cynical side wonders why the kid didn't suffer an "accident" if they so much regret his birth.
They could have adopted a kid whose dad didn't give him damaged genes, the selfish wankers.


No, I don't get them "wishing he was dead" from the quote. They wish that they had a chance to reconsider other options before he was conceived. There's really no other way to express the sentiment that they should have been warned ahead of time, when they might have made a different decision about receiving IVF, but that doesn't mean that they want him dead now. By the sounds of it, they've tried to do the right things for him. It doesn't mean it's not a frivolous law suit, but I don't think they're monsters as you seem to believe.
 
2012-02-02 11:13:48 AM  

Alpha Sierra Foxtrot: I know this is from my very limited experience with other people having birth, but it seems like there always seems to be something not quite right with the babies born when IVF or other fertility treatments are used. That makes me sad because there are healthy babies out there who need adopting. :(


You have it backwards, actually. My wife has been an elementary school teacher for 11 years, and she can easily identify adopted kids based on behavior and learning patterns. IVF/fertility - not so much. Adopted babies often come with a ton of baggage.
 
2012-02-02 11:14:21 AM  
$10 million? Really? And we don't need some reform in this area?
 
2012-02-02 11:14:41 AM  
With the name Keeden, HE's the one who will wish he'd never been born.
 
2012-02-02 11:15:24 AM  
Sadly if the doctor did boink the lady and then have a healthy baby none of these problems would of come up.
 
2012-02-02 11:21:41 AM  

The Singing Bush: You have it backwards, actually. My wife has been an elementary school teacher for 11 years, and she can easily identify adopted kids based on behavior and learning patterns. IVF/fertility - not so much. Adopted babies often come with a ton of baggage.


I didn't mean emotional concerns, necessarily. A few have been allergic to everything in the world and one is autistic.

But like I said, it's my limited experience.
 
2012-02-02 11:24:18 AM  
You gave him the disorder not the doctor.

This is like suing a buffet because the salad you put together at their salad bar wasn't very good.

And if they're complaining about a defective product shouldn't that include a recall? Seems hypocritical to biatch about what a company sold you then keep it and demand money.
 
2012-02-02 11:25:40 AM  

gyorg: braedan: FROM TFA: Days after Keeden was born in August 2000 he suffered a massive stroke causing brain damage and leaving him unable to walk, talk or go to the toilet unaided.

Am I a monster for thinking this child should have been euthanized immediately after birth?

Yes.

You play the cards you are dealt.

(son has rare genetic disorder. Wife and I are both recessive carriers, but our son is the first in both families and genetic tests for it only started a few decades ago so we didn't know. He's well worth the extra work/cost.)


I don't know how you play poker, but if I'm dealt a high card of 6, I fold and wait for the next hand.

My wife is on the fence, leaning toward no regarding having kids. I want children, but issues like this are the reason I've not discussed it further with her. She is a diagnosed with bi-polar disorder & other issues. That long with the potential for birth defects scare the hell out of me.
I do not want the responsibility of raising a child with a severe handicap.
 
2012-02-02 11:31:32 AM  
Honestly, they obviously don't want to be saddled with the kid (despite the completely transparent statement that "they love him now that he's here")...how hard is it to have an "accident" happen to a crippled infant...in farkin' Australia?

"Croikey, the man-eating digiridingo musta gotten in the poor bugger's crib as he slept...bloody shame, that is...Foster's, mate?"

...these people are just greedy, and there's no way they'd get away with anything now.
 
2012-02-02 11:55:54 AM  
In 2006, the High Court of Australia rejected a "wrongful life" claim made on behalf of Keeden

So it must be that a six-year old (probably) brain-damaged child asked his parents why he was ever born, since they brought the lawsuit in his name.

I had a conversation with a friend of mine once about whether or not we'd want to raise a damaged child. She asked me if I'd have an abortion if tests showed that the baby had Down's Syndrome. I said hell yes. She said no.

Maybe the fact that she was 42, about to get married, and was going to try to get pregnant had something to do with her answer.
 
2012-02-02 12:20:57 PM  

Gwendolyn: thelordofcheese: You ever think that nature gives some people clues about whether they shouldn't procreate?

Yeah I was coming here to sy something similar.


Infertility is nature's way of preventing certain genes from passing on. Start messing around with nature, deal with the consequences. These parents are just upset they didn't get their perfect little replicant.
 
2012-02-02 12:41:34 PM  

thelordofcheese: You ever think that nature gives some people clues about whether they shouldn't procreate?


Your parents ignored it.

/ fark you
// i have a test tube baby; worth every penny
 
2012-02-02 12:42:14 PM  

Mort_Q: thelordofcheese: You ever think that nature gives some people clues about whether they shouldn't procreate?

Your parents ignored it.

/ fark you
// i have a test tube baby; worth every penny


Does it have a belly button?
 
2012-02-02 12:46:49 PM  
I think they may have also won the Stupid Name Lottery, Australian Division.
 
2012-02-02 12:49:29 PM  

I should be in the kitchen: Gwendolyn: thelordofcheese: You ever think that nature gives some people clues about whether they shouldn't procreate?

Yeah I was coming here to sy something similar.

Infertility is nature's way of preventing certain genes from passing on. Start messing around with nature, deal with the consequences.


Cancer is nature's way of preventing your organs from functioning properly
A broken leg is nature's way of preventing you from walking
AIDS is nature's way of defeating your immune system so you'll die of a minor infection
ED is nature's way of preventing you from farking
Poor vision is nature's way of preventing you from seeing things that are far away
Heart attacks are nature's way of destroying your heart

Maybe we shouldn't treat these things either.
 
2012-02-02 12:51:41 PM  
rlv.zcache.com
 
2012-02-02 12:54:55 PM  
So the doctor did nothing wrong, it was daddy's defective spermmies.
 
2012-02-02 01:04:50 PM  
How did we make it so far into the thread without a Gattaca reference?
 
2012-02-02 01:27:58 PM  

Loaf's Tray: Mort_Q: thelordofcheese: You ever think that nature gives some people clues about whether they shouldn't procreate?

Your parents ignored it.

/ fark you
// i have a test tube baby; worth every penny

Does it have a belly button?


It's nose is a little smushed.

Also, it's an abomination to our Lord.
 
2012-02-02 01:30:18 PM  

Mort_Q: // i have a test tube baby; worth every penny


The best part about test tube babbys is that you can keep them on your piano with a few guppies.
 
2012-02-02 02:38:02 PM  
From the longer, linked article at the bottom of this article:
They claim that such responsibility as does exist was met by the referral of the Wallers to the genetic counsellor.

''There is no question that Debbie and Lawrence Waller have experienced a tragic event and that the Keeden Waller situation is extremely sad,'' counsel for Dr James, Jeremy Kirk, SC, said.

''But they are intelligent adults who were advised to speak to a genetic counsellor. They chose not to take up that advice.''


So let me get this straight. The couple was referred by the IVF doctors to a genetic counsellor, who would have told them about any possible genetic issues. The couple chose not to speak with the genetic counsellor. Now they blame the IVF doctors. Do I have that right? Yeebus.
 
2012-02-02 02:41:13 PM  
Buyers remorse.

Caveat emptor, baby.
 
2012-02-02 03:03:38 PM  
Let's put everything else aside and think about the impact that this has on the child. (Think of the children!, etc., etc.) By these parents taking this issue to court, they are basically saying to the child "Sorry, Keeden, we didn't really want you, we wanted a child like you who can run and play and piss in the loo without mummy and daddy to help you."

Legally, I see no basis for the suit and believe it should have been dismissed and laughed out of court. The blood-clotting condition was (and is) genetic; therefore, any reasonable parent would assume that their child--whether conceived naturally with the horizontal cha-cha or through IVF with a turkey baster--would stand a significant chance of inheriting the gene.

The parents claim they didn't have the "right information," but all they would have needed was a high school biology textbook to figure out that, wait for it, a genetic condition mgiht be passed down.

What's more shocking to me, however, is that the parents were specifically referred to a genetics specialist but did not follow up with one. While we're at it, the parents claim they called the hospital switchboard and no one answered. I personally conducted an experiment today by calling three hospital switchboards at 12:30 local time and...all three hospitals answered. So I don't believe they didn't follow up with the geneticist.

Finally, I would like to point out that the IVF specialist has essentially no duty to tell the parents that they carry genes which might possibly affect their test-tube baby. After all, the purpose of the IVF specialist is to make sure that the baby batter is made into a baby blastocyst and then--maybe, assuming the mother isn't screwed up in her lady parts--an actual baby.
 
2012-02-02 03:09:12 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Buyers remorse.

Caveat emptor, baby.


Well, at least he wasn't the wrong color.
 
2012-02-02 03:19:07 PM  

Jeff_in_ATL: braedan:
Am I a monster for thinking this child should have been euthanized immediately after birth?

Sentencing a human being to a lifetime in this condition seems cruel to me.

Of course you're not. I've had to pull the plug on a family member before, and if the day comes that I'm in a persistent vegetative state I hope one of my kids plucks up the nerve to do the same for me. Or smother me with a pillow.

Before either of my kids were born, we paid for amniocentesis. The religious folks in North Georgia (everybody but us) scoffed, and asked if something had come back wrong, would you get an abortion? We said hell yes, which horrified them.

They said a mentally handicapped child was special and loving, etc, a gift from Heaven. We said we respected their opinion, but to us a mentally handicapped child was a shuffling, drooling abomination sent by the Lord of Hell to shadow our every step even unto Death, and that God had given us the means to avoid this happening to us or the child in question. If we did not avail ourselves of God's Help, we would have gotten what we deserved.

No offense meant to the upthread folks in this situation who were promoting it, of course, just a differing opinion to which I'm entitled.


I would have to agree with you both, for the most part...However, I should mention that I have Turner's Syndrome. I found out a few years ago that a high percentage of feti who test positive for TS are aborted. It kind of shocked me because, for me, TS basically just means I am short and can't have babbys. I's certainly not mentally deficient (at least not more so than any graduate of a public college in the U.S.) and I am actually fairly strong for my size and gender, physically. As to the no babbys, I could have invitro but, even if I had a husband and all that, I'd adopt. I kind of feel that invitro is immoral.

Anyway, none of that means I think either abortion or invitro should be illegal. They should be up to the mother and/or father and their doctor. I just thought I'd point out that some genetic abnormalities might not be so bad. I know that just because I think something is immoral doesn't mean that it should be illegal.
 
2012-02-02 03:36:53 PM  

mekkab: I love how this is not their first Wrongful Birth law suit.


/And by a show of hands, who thought that this was going to be about the Doc diddling the Wifey? I know I sure did...


I had thought he put his own sperm in the petri dish, and dad noticed that it looked a lot swarthier than he did. Leaving disappointed.
 
2012-02-02 04:54:50 PM  

thelordofcheese: You ever think that nature gives some people clues about whether they shouldn't procreate?


THIS
 
2012-02-02 06:00:55 PM  

Beerbarian: Justice John Hislop heard that Dr James did not seek to find out the answer himself, but handed the couple the name and phone number of a genetic counsellor at Wollongong Hospital on a post-it note. It is alleged the note was given to the Wallers in the context of a discussion about fertility not genetics...

If someone refers you to a genetic counsellor, it's safe to figure that the discussion will be about your genetic risk factors (it's right in the name).

If the phone is the general hospital operator...good for you that you have the person's NAME!

/wife is a genetic counsellor.
//drives her nuts that I'm adopted.



They heard what they wanted to hear.

They're probably hoping for a settlement, like those folks who sue (and win!) against condom manufacturers (or MJ), not because the companies (or MJ) did anything wrong, the attorneys just want the problem to go away and advise their clients accordingly.
 
2012-02-02 06:04:07 PM  
If you sued your parents for "wrongful birth", does that mean you can than legally commit suicide?

/dumb question on purpose
 
2012-02-02 07:32:41 PM  

Feepit: FTFA: Debbie and Lawrence Waller [said] they love their son Keeden, but believe he should never have been born.

One day your kid may see these articles, asshats.

Stay classy!


NO, he won't. That's the point. He will NEVER be able to read this nor will he be able to live a full life.
 
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