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(Fox News)   Couple sue In Vitro Fertilization Doctor for giving them what they wanted, but not how they wanted it   (foxnews.com) divider line 83
    More: Fail, IVF, duty of care, obstetricians, The Sydney Morning Herald  
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20290 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Feb 2012 at 8:08 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-02 04:49:00 AM  
You ever think that nature gives some people clues about whether they shouldn't procreate?
 
2012-02-02 05:10:16 AM  

thelordofcheese: You ever think that nature gives some people clues about whether they shouldn't procreate?


Yeah I was coming here to sy something similar.
 
2012-02-02 05:15:00 AM  

Gwendolyn: thelordofcheese: You ever think that nature gives some people clues about whether they shouldn't procreate?

Yeah I was coming here to sy something similar.


Perhaps they see it as someone f*cking up a special order. They paid a premium and it isn't what they wanted, and now they can't return it.
 
2012-02-02 05:46:26 AM  
So let me see if I have this straight: These people absolutely had to have a little bundle of joy of their very own, a doctor did his best to help them reach that goal, the child was born with a birth defect due to his father's shiatty genes, and now the parents are all butt hurt over it?

Maybe they should sue whatever god they believe in?
 
2012-02-02 06:12:59 AM  
It sounds like alloimmune thrombocytopenia. This is a treatable condition, with a proper medical history of the parents. Remember how we used to have "blue babies" because Mom was A- and Dad A+? Kind of like that. Nowadays A- mothers just get a shot of Rhogam, and no more blue babies. With alloimmune thrombocytopenia, if mom is treated with intravenous gamma globulin during her pregnancy, no intracerebral bleeds in baby's brain. Healthy baby. I would say that the journalist leapt to a damned unfortunate conclusion without understanding the medicine. It's not a "wrongful birth." It's a failure to diagnose and treat alloimmune thrombocytopenia.
 
2012-02-02 06:52:07 AM  
Oh, and it's FOX News. We report without a clue, you decide.
 
2012-02-02 06:53:04 AM  
I'm curious whether they did PGD to specifically prevent it. I know some people who are carriers will do so for things like Tay-Sachs or CF. if they did PGD but the doctor screwed up, I can see where the case is. If it was just regular IVF, I don't quite see what grounds they have to sue. But since I'm not a lawyer, I could be missing something.
 
2012-02-02 06:58:29 AM  

MidnightSkulker: I'm curious whether they did PGD to specifically prevent it.



We'll never know. The test to determine whether a couple is incompatible for purposes of this condition is not routinely performed. Usually it's done after a couple has one child with the condition, with minor bleeds and little more than a rash, then the couple wish to become pregnant again. But, with in vitro, generally the genetic protocols are more stringent. With this lousy story, there's no way to tell.
 
2012-02-02 08:11:37 AM  
It's not nice to fark with Mother Nature.
 
2012-02-02 08:12:04 AM  

MidnightSkulker: But since I'm not a lawyer, I could be missing something.


A stacked jury?
 
2012-02-02 08:13:41 AM  
I love how this is not their first Wrongful Birth law suit.


/And by a show of hands, who thought that this was going to be about the Doc diddling the Wifey? I know I sure did...
 
2012-02-02 08:15:35 AM  
Days after Keeden was born in August 2000 he suffered a massive stroke causing brain damage and leaving him unable to walk, talk or go to the toilet unaided.


I know these are new parents and all, but surely they are aware that the average newborn can do none of those things?
 
2012-02-02 08:16:40 AM  
Well, you can't win them allrewardslink.info
 
2012-02-02 08:18:38 AM  

AbbeySomeone: Perhaps they see it as someone f*cking up a special order. They paid a premium and it isn't what they wanted, and now they can't return it.


That's how I took it.
 
2012-02-02 08:18:49 AM  

mekkab: I love how this is not their first Wrongful Birth law suit.


/And by a show of hands, who thought that this was going to be about the Doc diddling the Wifey? I know I sure did...


*raises hand*
/reads the article
//leaves disappointed
 
2012-02-02 08:19:07 AM  

mekkab: /And by a show of hands, who thought that this was going to be about the Doc diddling the Wifey? I know I sure did...


Yep. That was my prediction. Or that the doctor used his own sperm to fertilized instead of the husband's.
 
2012-02-02 08:25:32 AM  

BurnShrike: mekkab: /And by a show of hands, who thought that this was going to be about the Doc diddling the Wifey? I know I sure did...

Yep. That was my prediction. Or that the doctor used his own sperm to fertilized instead of the husband's.


That was my thought too.

I thought this kind of genetic goof was part of the assumed risk when you go in for IVF in the first place.

/learn something new every day.
 
2012-02-02 08:26:01 AM  
Sounds like "Dad" should sue himself. He's the one who's responsible.
 
2012-02-02 08:28:49 AM  
FTA: "We love Keeden now that he's here, but...."

And that may be all I need to know.
 
2012-02-02 08:32:52 AM  
FTFA: Debbie and Lawrence Waller [said] they love their son Keeden, but believe he should never have been born.

One day your kid may see these articles, asshats.

Stay classy!
 
2012-02-02 08:33:12 AM  

emersonbiggins: Days after Keeden was born in August 2000 he suffered a massive stroke causing brain damage and leaving him unable to walk, talk or go to the toilet unaided.

I know these are new parents and all, but surely they are aware that the average newborn can do none of those things?


Nice.
 
2012-02-02 08:35:38 AM  
I know this is from my very limited experience with other people having birth, but it seems like there always seems to be something not quite right with the babies born when IVF or other fertility treatments are used. That makes me sad because there are healthy babies out there who need adopting. :(

mekkab: I love how this is not their first Wrongful Birth law suit.


I didn't click through initially, so now I have more questions like...the kid's eleven? The first little blurb conveniently left out that the baby's not really a baby anymore.

And the first "wrongful birth" case didn't work, so they're trying again, it seems...

And saying something like, "We love him, but he shouldn't have been born" seems cold no matter which way you slice it.
 
2012-02-02 08:35:50 AM  

emersonbiggins: Days after Keeden was born in August 2000 he suffered a massive stroke causing brain damage and leaving him unable to walk, talk or go to the toilet unaided.

I know these are new parents and all, but surely they are aware that the average newborn can do none of those things?


: ) I am glad you are here to bring some levity.

/toss out the case and make the parents pay any of the doctor's legal fees.
 
2012-02-02 08:36:06 AM  

MorrisBird: It sounds like alloimmune thrombocytopenia. This is a treatable condition, with a proper medical history of the parents. Remember how we used to have "blue babies" because Mom was A- and Dad A+? Kind of like that. Nowadays A- mothers just get a shot of Rhogam, and no more blue babies. With alloimmune thrombocytopenia, if mom is treated with intravenous gamma globulin during her pregnancy, no intracerebral bleeds in baby's brain. Healthy baby. I would say that the journalist leapt to a damned unfortunate conclusion without understanding the medicine. It's not a "wrongful birth." It's a failure to diagnose and treat alloimmune thrombocytopenia.


Sorry, but no. "Wrongful life" is a specific cause of action, and the suit has to be filed as such.
 
2012-02-02 08:38:00 AM  
this is why you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket uterus.
 
2012-02-02 08:39:14 AM  

MorrisBird: It sounds like alloimmune thrombocytopenia. This is a treatable condition, with a proper medical history of the parents. Remember how we used to have "blue babies" because Mom was A- and Dad A+? Kind of like that. Nowadays A- mothers just get a shot of Rhogam, and no more blue babies. With alloimmune thrombocytopenia, if mom is treated with intravenous gamma globulin during her pregnancy, no intracerebral bleeds in baby's brain. Healthy baby. I would say that the journalist leapt to a damned unfortunate conclusion without understanding the medicine. It's not a "wrongful birth." It's a failure to diagnose and treat alloimmune thrombocytopenia.


Yeah, the article that's linked at the bottom has a bit more information (though not the name of the disorder, that I can see). Here and Here

Basically, the argument is that before starting IVF, the couple told the doctor that the father had this rare blood condition, but the doctor did not inform them of the risks associated with it, or the 50% probability that it would be passed on to their son and possibility that it would cause major damage (in the form of a stroke soon after birth). Knowing that information could have meant that they might not have gone ahead with the decision to get IVF in the first place. Basically the argument is that he didn't give the the full information (which was his duty of care).

The doctor is saying that 1) he gave them the number of a genetic councillor (nature of the referral is disputed by the couple) and 2) There isn't explicit evidence of a link between this particular blood disorder and stokes.

So, it's not quite as silly as it sounds, but it isn't a strong case for them. If they do find a connection between the stroke and the condition, then they might have a case (far from a sure one), but not otherwise.
 
2012-02-02 08:40:28 AM  

emersonbiggins: Days after Keeden was born in August 2000 he suffered a massive stroke causing brain damage and leaving him unable to walk, talk or go to the toilet unaided.

I know these are new parents and all, but surely they are aware that the average newborn can do none of those things?


I thought that very thing when I read that. However, I chose not to burn in hell for actually saying it :-)
 
2012-02-02 08:43:59 AM  
Justice John Hislop heard that Dr James did not seek to find out the answer himself, but handed the couple the name and phone number of a genetic counsellor at Wollongong Hospital on a post-it note. It is alleged the note was given to the Wallers in the context of a discussion about fertility not genetics...

If someone refers you to a genetic counsellor, it's safe to figure that the discussion will be about your genetic risk factors (it's right in the name).

If the phone is the general hospital operator...good for you that you have the person's NAME!

/wife is a genetic counsellor.
//drives her nuts that I'm adopted.
 
2012-02-02 08:49:47 AM  
These people sound classy. Parents who love their children: "We love him but he won't sleep at night lol". These people, "We love him, but he should never have been born."
 
2012-02-02 08:51:13 AM  
If you're willing to sue for "wrongful birth," then you, by definition, wish your child had not been born. I find that incompatible with any claims to love said child. Medical malpractice, maybe- if the doctor withheld information that might have affected their course of treatment for the kid. But "wrongful birth"? WTH? They don't deserve to be parents.
 
2012-02-02 08:54:08 AM  
So...6 years ago this couple tried suing the OBGYNs and the IVF clinic and it was thrown out of court (for reasons the article doesn't mention). Now they're back with another attempt..this time targeting the IVF doctor specifically. If this one is also tossed out, who will they sue next time? The IVF clinic's nursing staff? The genetic counselor they were referred to?
 
2012-02-02 08:57:20 AM  

give me doughnuts: Sorry, but no. "Wrongful life" is a specific cause of action, and the suit has to be filed as such.


And you got your degree in Australian law at what specific law school in Kentucky?
 
2012-02-02 08:57:23 AM  

Feepit: FTFA: Debbie and Lawrence Waller [said] they love their son Keeden, but believe he should never have been born.

One day your kid may see these articles, asshats.

Stay classy!


Pretty sure the kid is too incapacitated to read.

At any rate it's pretty unbelievable that the father would not have known/sought out those risks beforehand.

He himself was already living with it with no major consequence before the kid was born. My cousin was born when I was in my teens. It was only after that that we learned that my aunt had been a fragile X carrier and that my cousin was Autistic because of it. That of course meant my father could also have it(although he would have a minor version as he functions pretty well) which would mean I, as a female would have it(comes down on the X chromosome, gets worse with all suceeding genertions) Finally, a few months ago, because there's ever the slim chance I could someday bear a child, I got my test done.

Turned out I didn't have it....but up until then I'd know if I did that I could have an autistic child.
 
2012-02-02 08:59:41 AM  
FROM TFA: Days after Keeden was born in August 2000 he suffered a massive stroke causing brain damage and leaving him unable to walk, talk or go to the toilet unaided.

Am I a monster for thinking this child should have been euthanized immediately after birth?
This article is light on details, but with this level of brain damage I'm assuming cognitive function has been significantly impaired as well.
Sentencing a human being to a lifetime in this condition seems cruel to me.
 
2012-02-02 09:00:21 AM  
their son Keeden

Oh for fark's sake.
 
2012-02-02 09:00:26 AM  
I'm ordering my next child with a side of fries.
 
2012-02-02 09:02:09 AM  

braedan: FROM TFA: Days after Keeden was born in August 2000 he suffered a massive stroke causing brain damage and leaving him unable to walk, talk or go to the toilet unaided.

Am I a monster for thinking this child should have been euthanized immediately after birth?
This article is light on details, but with this level of brain damage I'm assuming cognitive function has been significantly impaired as well.
Sentencing a human being to a lifetime in this condition seems cruel to me.


I agree, but there are numerous religious nutbags who would be willing to kill someone who did that. You know, to prevent the babby killing.
 
2012-02-02 09:06:43 AM  

theknuckler_33: their son Keeden

Oh for fark's sake.


I thought that was the lifelong debilitating condition. I guess he has two.
 
2012-02-02 09:12:19 AM  

dopeydwarf: So let me see if I have this straight: These people absolutely had to have a little bundle of joy of their very own, a doctor did his best to help them reach that goal, the child was born with a birth defect due to his father's shiatty genes, and now the parents are all butt hurt over it?

Maybe they should sue whatever god they believe in?


I"m thinking the same thing...the condition wasn't a side effect of the IVF, it was inherited from the father. Unless the doc was somehow legally obligated to screen their entire genetic makeup, I see no reason he'd be responsible. This could just as easily happened with natural birth.
 
2012-02-02 09:16:12 AM  

thelordofcheese: You ever think that nature gives some people clues about whether they shouldn't procreate?


Meh, the whole medical industry is based on subverting nature. You have cancer? Maybe it's nature's way of saying you shouldn't be here anymore. Birth control totally screws with a woman's natural hormones, pills for depressions change the natural chemistry of your brain, I could go on.
 
2012-02-02 09:17:11 AM  
Debbie and Lawrence Waller, of Kangaroo Valley, 95 miles south of Sydney, told The Sydney Morning Herald they love their son Keeden, but believe he should never have been born.

Someone
should never have been born in this situation, but it's not the kid.

/yes, I know there's a logical problem with that
 
2012-02-02 09:19:39 AM  

braedan: FROM TFA: Days after Keeden was born in August 2000 he suffered a massive stroke causing brain damage and leaving him unable to walk, talk or go to the toilet unaided.

Am I a monster for thinking this child should have been euthanized immediately after birth?
This article is light on details, but with this level of brain damage I'm assuming cognitive function has been significantly impaired as well.
Sentencing a human being to a lifetime in this condition seems cruel to me.


Yes.

You play the cards you are dealt.

(son has rare genetic disorder. Wife and I are both recessive carriers, but our son is the first in both families and genetic tests for it only started a few decades ago so we didn't know. He's well worth the extra work/cost.)
 
2012-02-02 09:23:28 AM  
what? no hawt pics of Octomom?
 
2012-02-02 09:25:30 AM  

Feepit:
One day your kid may see these articles, asshats.


I doubt it. I wonder if he'd even be able to read.
 
2012-02-02 09:28:01 AM  

ihatedumbpeople: dopeydwarf: So let me see if I have this straight: These people absolutely had to have a little bundle of joy of their very own, a doctor did his best to help them reach that goal, the child was born with a birth defect due to his father's shiatty genes, and now the parents are all butt hurt over it?

Maybe they should sue whatever god they believe in?

I"m thinking the same thing...the condition wasn't a side effect of the IVF, it was inherited from the father. Unless the doc was somehow legally obligated to screen their entire genetic makeup, I see no reason he'd be responsible. This could just as easily happened with natural birth.


See but that's the thing. When my wife got pregnant, they offered to do genetic screening to find out any risks. As far as I understand, IVF is more stringent and they make you do it and tell you about the genetic risks before they'll do the procedure. I could be wrong, but if this is the case and the doctor didn't convey those risks, he could be at fault.
 
2012-02-02 09:32:15 AM  

gyorg: braedan: Am I a monster for thinking this child should have been euthanized immediately after birth?
This article is light on details, but with this level of brain damage I'm assuming cognitive function has been significantly impaired as well.
Sentencing a human being to a lifetime in this condition seems cruel to me.

Yes.

You play the cards you are dealt.

(son has rare genetic disorder. Wife and I are both recessive carriers, but our son is the first in both families and genetic tests for it only started a few decades ago so we didn't know. He's well worth the extra work/cost.)


How does your son feel about the game? Maybe he farking hates playing cards, and would've preferred Scrabble.
 
2012-02-02 09:57:01 AM  

Smurfme: I'm ordering my next child with a side of fries.


If you come to where I work, you next order of fries could very well give you a child.
Or you could try the clam chowder too, but neither of them is what I would call 'clean food'.

But they do come with free 'special sauce' which I personaly make in small, limited batches of about 3-4 runs daily...5 If I haven't made any for a while.
 
2012-02-02 09:59:04 AM  
resources0.news.com.au

Unavailable for comment
 
2012-02-02 10:01:14 AM  
your average maint. man

what? no hawt pics of Octomom?

I did a GIS and it stated "There are no images anywhere on the internets that match this criteria"
 
2012-02-02 10:18:56 AM  

Dahnkster: FTA: "We love Keeden now that he's here, but...."

And that may be all I need to know.


Came here for basically this.

"We love Keeden now that he's here, but....we'd love him more if we had $10 million."
 
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