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(New York Daily News)   Apple to introduce the world's first $1200 iPhone   (nydailynews.com) divider line 30
    More: Obvious, iPhones, labor practices, sustainable business, labourers  
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12653 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 Feb 2012 at 12:28 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-02-01 09:46:18 PM
8 votes:

NFA: If Americans would stop buying products made by slaves, jobs (not Steve Jobs) would return to America.

As Obama said, we need to tax the bejesus out of companies that have sent American jobs overseas and give tax breaks to the ones that didn't.


It's a bit more complicated than that, but I agree with the sentiment. My fear is that it would be like trying to get toothpaste back in the tube. I think the '50s, '60s and early '70s were the apogee of the U.S. middle class.

Too many people were lured by the low prices at Walmart, putting stores selling American goods out of business. The Walton family did more damage to this country than al-Qaeda.
2012-02-01 11:54:23 PM
4 votes:

Speaker2Animals: The Walton family did more damage to this country than al-Qaeda.


Honestly, these are the wisest words written on FARK in a long, long time.
2012-02-02 07:04:00 AM
2 votes:
know the facts.

Link (new window)
2012-02-02 01:11:15 AM
2 votes:
The Chinese are not apple employees and are not listed as such. They are employees of Foxconn who is seemingly one of three or four companies that mfg electronics in china. Almost every phone and pad and game console is apparently made in a Foxconn plant.
2012-02-03 11:02:29 PM
1 votes:
I don't see how singling out Apple is benefiting anyone. Since Foxxconn makes samsung and others as well, I'd say the problem is with the entire industry.

So find another excuse to hate apple. Every electronic device you own is either made in an unethical factory, sold in an unethical store, or made of unethically produced raw materials. Every screen Fark has ever been shown on has an element of cheap labour.

If I'm not mistaken, the proper way to get rid of a company you don't like is to stop buying their products. Since we're all reading this, I think it's safe to assume you only care about children working 20 hours a day for as long as it takes you to type "steve jobs is a farkstick", if that, you internet white-knight hypocrite tantrum-throwing blackberry owning clowns
kab
2012-02-02 12:18:31 PM
1 votes:

sarah_t_s: Adults are talking.


Yeah, I'm going to have to state that any adult who thinks a mac pro makes a better gaming rig than a slew of other options.. probably shouldn't be talking in the first place.

But by all means, continue sounding dumb.
2012-02-02 11:49:27 AM
1 votes:

Stabone33:
You lose. Apple is higher-priced.


Nope. You lose. To whit:

iMac v Generic all-in-one. Victor: iMac
Mac Pro v Gamerz shiat. Victor: Mac Pro
2009 MBP v 2011 Laptops. Victor: Mac Book Pro
iPad v slates. Victor: iPad.

Battlefield: Suscessive fark threads. You and your cult have awarded victory EVERY time. You lose by default at this point.

One day you'll have the money to afford decent kit I'm sure. Until then children should be seen and not heard.
2012-02-02 11:46:39 AM
1 votes:
DamnCheapMonkey: Apple's audits found 0 underage workers in their suppliers' facilities. Are you suggesting they were all squirreled away prior to the audits? Or do you have some source that shows it still happens?

Actually the audits found 6 active and 13 'historical' cases of underage workers, which certainly isn't statistically significant when you're talking about a factory of 400,000 people.

That said, there is an episode of "This American Life" that claims foxxcon puts all the oldest workers on lines when they know they're going to be audited.


Here. (new window) Saw this on CBS Sunday morning. Dude went over there and stood outside the factory gate and interviewed workers leaving their shifts.

I can't view the video at work, so LMK if it doesn't work. If I remember correctly, Apple has hired a firm in London to manage this issue for them (might have been a PR firm?). So far, the firm has not been allowed access to the Foxconn factory, and Foxconn didn't return any calls from CBS prior to the story airing.
2012-02-02 11:21:01 AM
1 votes:

jizzler: Machines exist that can do this work anywhere in the world. (example: Link (new window))

The problem: setting up such an assembly chain costs billions of dollars, and that's bad for quarterly profits! Much cheaper in the short term to shift your production from country to country until all the cheap labor becomes expensive.

Machines do the job with amazing repeatability, don't get upset about their pay, don't need breaks (unless they break down), meals, etc. Which is probably why Foxconn decided to replace its workforce with robots: Link (new window)

Too bad China is the "low cost worlds factory" or that could be happening here.


Actually, all these high tech manufacturing companies are heavily investing in robotic assembly technology, for exactly that reason, Once they've eliminated the cost of paying assembly line wages, there's no incentive to keep the plants in China (due to the high costs of marketing and shipping), and they'd likely move everything back to the US to minimize the other costs.

Of course, that means the plants would create very few jobs, so there'd be little incentive for the US in this venture, but at least they'd be in the US, right?
2012-02-02 10:21:49 AM
1 votes:

machoprogrammer: lol what? Apple is higher priced and the quality of the product is the same, if not better in the competitors.


1997 called and they want their myths back.
2012-02-02 10:19:17 AM
1 votes:
Apple executives themselves have admitted that making the iPhone in the US would add less than $50 to the cost.

They make it in China because of the massive flexible workforce and manufacturing infrastructure there.

images.wikia.com
2012-02-02 10:13:27 AM
1 votes:

FlameDuck: digistil: FlameDuck: I guess if you have 70% profit per unit it has to come off someones back. Pay decent wages, decent working conditions and perhaps earn 60%. I have a phone made by Apple, but now I have good reason not to upgrade.

You realize all phones suffer from this same problem, right?

Of course, but when problems are pointed out one must take a stand. I don't have resources to watch whole industry. To think of it some Nokia phones used to be made in Finland, but I guess not any more and of course the components come from somewhere else.


Even the uber expensive Vertu's (cost $$$$$) are now made in China. And Foxxconn is one of the high end manufacturers. You will not find a smart phone available today or in the relatively near future that isn't manufactured under similar conditions at best.

So the only way you can take the stand you claim you will make is to not buy a smart phone.
2012-02-02 09:37:48 AM
1 votes:

Stabone33: the suicide rate amongst foxxcon workers is less than the national average...people think 6 is a big number until you realize that 200,000 people work there.

So? They also hire 12 to 15 year olds, and an employee died after working 35 hours straight. 150 workers in one branch of the company threatened suicide unless working conditions improved. Foxconn basically said "if you don't like it, either quit and take the company compensation, or STFU and GBTW." The workers quit, and are still waiting for their compensation. This was just a few weeks ago. How many other companies in China have had to install suicide nets around the building to keep the jumpers from succeeding?


Apple's audits found 0 underage workers in their suppliers' facilities. Are you suggesting they were all squirreled away prior to the audits? Or do you have some source that shows it still happens?

Funny you mention the suicide threats, but fail to include the detail that they were workers on the Xbox assembly line. And do you really think conditions are any better at other manufacturing plants?

At least you were right about the overtime abuses, though I'd like to see a source for the 35 hour death.

Apple chooses to use them as a manufacturer. They are so vested in that production line, it's unlikely that they'll be able to fix it in the next generation of iPhones...they'll have to contract production to a new company for maybe the iPhone 6 or 7 / iPad 4 or 5, given the amount of production capacity they require.

Samsung may not be any better, but the volume of products made by Foxconn for them is probably lower. Unfortunately, I can't find anything that states who their Galaxy smartphones are subbed out to. Anyone have better luck?


Samsung gets a free pass because of possibly lower production? Wow, your standards are beyond reproach! Truly, you put the human into "humanitarian"!

Don't know what volume Samsung contracts out, but it's not as though they show any great willingness (new window) to expand employee rights.

For now, ignorance is bliss...I was considering an iPhone 5 to replace my Samsung Galaxy S, but I'll probably upgrade to the next generation of Galaxy phones when this one dies.

Sure, why not? They use slightly less of Foxconn's production volume (maybe), they're squeaky clean!
2012-02-02 08:30:20 AM
1 votes:

FlameDuck: digistil: FlameDuck: I guess if you have 70% profit per unit it has to come off someones back. Pay decent wages, decent working conditions and perhaps earn 60%. I have a phone made by Apple, but now I have good reason not to upgrade.

You realize all phones suffer from this same problem, right?

Of course, but when problems are pointed out one must take a stand. I don't have resources to watch whole industry. To think of it some Nokia phones used to be made in Finland, but I guess not any more and of course the components come from somewhere else.


Pretty half-assed stand then, isn't it? You're going to switch phones, but take advantage of all the other products made in conditions as bad as, possibly worse, than Foxconn? You're a real humanitarian, bud.
2012-02-02 08:23:05 AM
1 votes:
To be honest, most of the money Apple makes is not from cheap electronics, but from the American-Made Music and the American-Made Apps that Apple makes for their App Stores and iTunes. And you can't get more American than Zynga. And Justin Beiber.
2012-02-02 07:49:44 AM
1 votes:

FTA :

"She also said Apple factories need to open their doors to independent auditors and charge more for their products to allow suppliers to make bigger profits."


I am absolutely certain NONE of Apple's competitors are behind this. You know, the ones that cannot compete on price because Apple beat the fark out of them with a superior supply chain. I am also certain NONE of you are being useful idiots for those competitors, either.

You know, the same competitors which are hoping you won't notice they use Foxconn too.

/ More than manufacturing what this country needs is rational thought
// as we have far too many idiots running around loose.
/// And what is more, these idiots are voting.
2012-02-02 07:24:42 AM
1 votes:

intelligent comment below: How ironic then that you don't even understand it. The problem has nothing to do with labor costs. The problem is getting all the material that goes into making phones to America for manufacturing. The delays would only be in sourcing all the various items required, all manufactured in Asia already by contractors and subcontractors, many of which you cannot just duplicate in the states because they're natural resources.


Just because I didn't give a comprehensive review of all the associated problems, doesn't mean I don't have an understanding. I certainly don't put it down to labor costs nor limit delays to sourcing materials.

It's not the cost of the labor, it's the availability of enough people with the right skills to assemble hi-tech products and the engineers necessary to monitor the production. What US company can even meet, much less beat, the speed that Foxconn can find and hire the thousands of people their clients need?

Building the supply chain would be possible, but that would be where all the cost is. Not labor, not waste, not delays.

Build the entire supply chain in the US and it might solve the delays issue, but that doesn't get around all the issues with labor or waste (just look at China's pollution problems). And how many companies can even afford the massive undertaking of relocation? Or feel any need to move to the US just so Apple can say "Made in the USA"? And it's hopelessly naive of you to assume governments around the world are just going to gladly accept the massive shift in trade and keep current import/export regulations as they are.

The only irony in this exchange is your handle, as I see not the least sign you have applied any intelligence to your comment.
2012-02-02 07:17:53 AM
1 votes:

The Bestest: Speaker2Animals: The Walton family did more damage to this country than al-Qaeda.

The ironic thing is that Sam Walton was pretty big on "Made in America".

Then he died.


Yeah, as a construction worker. The older guys talk about building walmarts and Sam Walton would always come to the sites and come and b/s with all of us common people on the job. By all accounts he was a stand-up guy who loved his country.

Then he died.
2012-02-02 07:10:59 AM
1 votes:

DamnCheapMonkey: I sound fat: Or conversely, they could keep the price the same and only make 39 billion next quarter....

Why is it only Apple's profits that need to be sacrificed? Dozens of other companies have Foxconn assemble their products. After the rash Of suicides in 2010, they arranged for raises (new window) by knocking their margins down a couple percent.

On top of that, they have regular audits conducted and a published code of conduct for their suppliers. They're also the first company to join the Fair Labor Association from the tech industry.

Most people are very anxious to keep the focus solely on Apple's indirect involvement, regardless of the fact they're one out of dozens of Foxconn's clients. But, I suppose that gets more hits than coverage of what they do to try and make the situation better, right?


the suicide rate amongst foxxcon workers is less than the national average...people think 6 is a big number until you realize that 200,000 people work there.
2012-02-02 07:10:15 AM
1 votes:
Copy pasta'd from the wiki. Add all these companies to your stupid, petition/ban. You might want to also check your clothes. If it's not made in the west you best be taking it off. Then add in most of the rest of the crap in your house, including the Sheetrock. Apple isn't the problem it's YOU.

Foxconn manufactures products for companies including:
(country of headquarters in parentheses)
Acer Inc. (Taiwan)[27]
Amazon.com (United States)[28]
Apple Inc. (United States)[29]
ASRock (Taiwan)[citation needed]
Asus (Taiwan)[citation needed]
Barnes & Noble (United States)[citation needed]
Cisco (United States)[30]
Dell (United States)[31]
EVGA Corporation (United States)
Hewlett-Packard (United States)[32]
Intel (United States)[33]
IBM (United States)[citation needed]
Lenovo (China)[citation needed]
Microsoft (United States)[34]
MSI (Taiwan)[citation needed]
Motorola (United States)[31]
Netgear (United States)[citation needed]
Nintendo (Japan)[35]
Nokia (Finland)[29]
Panasonic (Japan)[citation needed]
Samsung (South Korea)[36]
Sharp (Japan)[citation needed]
Sony (Japan)[37]
Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)[38]
Vizio (United States)[39]
2012-02-02 01:50:15 AM
1 votes:

ongbok: In stead of signing a petition that Apple will toss in the garbage once they get it, why don't they do something that will really hurt them. Stop buying their products. Maybe Americans should start doing this in general until companies start bringing manufacturing back to the U.S, even though these days that would be very hard to do if not unrealistic.


Boycotting Apple, alone, will put them out of business while the missing market share will go to other companies making their products in the same factories. The electronics manufactures have us all by the balls. The only way to boycott them is to avoid buying virtually every device that can access the internet (until some clever people start making them domestically). Surrendering access to information will leave us almost as bad off as the workers we'd be trying to help with such a boycott, and maybe hurt them even more by reducing the number of jobs needed at the factories.

So, as I said, they have us by the balls.
2012-02-02 01:41:42 AM
1 votes:
Apple could make all their products entirely in the USA, and still charge what they charge...

...they'd just end up being VERY profitable rather than INSANELY profitable. And that's no good for shareholders.

/won't somebody think of the sad shareholders???
2012-02-02 01:33:11 AM
1 votes:

Speaker2Animals: The Walton family did more damage to this country than al-Qaeda.


The ironic thing is that Sam Walton was pretty big on "Made in America".

Then he died.
2012-02-02 01:21:48 AM
1 votes:

sidmind: bigpeeler: Speaker2Animals: The Walton family did more damage to this country than al-Qaeda.

Honestly, these are the wisest words written on FARK in a long, long time.

Third that.


Thanks. In a town not too far from me, K-mart opened its first Super-K in the early 1990s. On a wall above the row of cash registers were the logos of all the Ohio-made products sold in the store -- representing perhaps 35-40 different companies IIRC. Fast forward about 3-4 years and Wally World opens up about a quarter-mile down the road. As the days and weeks and months pass, more and more of those logos disappear, as the companies themselves disappear or their goods can't compete with the cheap shiat being peddled at Wally World. Eventually, they were all gone. The Super K is now a practically a ghost town and is slated to be closed this year as Sears shrinks its retail footprint. Down the road, Walmart is thriving, and even added a couple hundred thousand square feet to the store to sell food and other grocery items.

But Walmart didn't just buy cheap goods from China and the Far East. No, their executives actually went to the Chinese and told them if they were to build factories to manufacture various consumer goods, Walmart would guarantee them a market for these goods -- a very large market. And the short-sighted American consumer, lured by "Always low prices--Always" didn't care that they were sacrificing this country's financial well-being.

Sic transit gloria Americus.....
2012-02-02 12:54:52 AM
1 votes:
Ah, the time-honored tradition of taking an article and making it all about unrelated things that you hate.

Good times.
2012-02-02 12:53:58 AM
1 votes:

Speaker2Animals: Too many people were lured by the low prices at Walmart, putting stores selling American goods out of business. The Walton family Sam Walton's kids did more damage to this country than al-Qaeda.


FTFY. Don't lump Sam in with his worthless offspring.
2012-02-02 12:51:48 AM
1 votes:

Speaker2Animals: The Walton family did more damage to this country than al-Qaeda.


This family laughs at your idea and then farts in your general direction:

www.hermes-press.com


/And then they fart in your general direction again, just because.

//Burn in Hell, Bush family members; burn in Hell!!!

///Cheers!
2012-02-02 12:35:46 AM
1 votes:

bigpeeler: Speaker2Animals: The Walton family did more damage to this country than al-Qaeda.

Honestly, these are the wisest words written on FARK in a long, long time.


Third that.
2012-02-01 11:23:08 PM
1 votes:
"A lot of their customers are people who want to feel like they are part of a sustainable economy, people who shop at farmers markets, who want to know they are supporting companies that are being responsible and are not hurting people," she said.

We call those people idiots. Newsflash: if it's made in China, it's made with what amounts to slave labor, in terrible conditions. It's not right or fair, and sure, it's great that a very visible company is being pressured to change their practices, but how on Earth did anyone think anything else was actually happening? Who sees "Made in China" and thinks, "It must come from the good part of China, where the workers are unionized and get coffee breaks and aren't forced into the choice of working themselves to death for no pay on a rural farm or violating strict labor laws and working themselves to death for relatively OK pay."
MBK [TotalFark]
2012-02-01 11:04:27 PM
1 votes:
I kinda wonder where all this backlash was when Jobs was alive.

I mean, it isn't like they just started making iPhones and iPods and other Apple products.
 
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