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(New York Daily News)   Apple to introduce the world's first $1200 iPhone   (nydailynews.com) divider line 170
    More: Obvious, iPhones, labor practices, sustainable business, labourers  
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12652 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 Feb 2012 at 12:28 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-02-02 11:00:29 AM

The Bestest: Speaker2Animals: The Walton family did more damage to this country than al-Qaeda.

The ironic thing is that Sam Walton was pretty big on "Made in America".

Then he died.


The "200,000 American Jobs Saved" sign hanging in every Walmart came down before Sam was in the ground.
 
2012-02-02 11:21:01 AM

jizzler: Machines exist that can do this work anywhere in the world. (example: Link (new window))

The problem: setting up such an assembly chain costs billions of dollars, and that's bad for quarterly profits! Much cheaper in the short term to shift your production from country to country until all the cheap labor becomes expensive.

Machines do the job with amazing repeatability, don't get upset about their pay, don't need breaks (unless they break down), meals, etc. Which is probably why Foxconn decided to replace its workforce with robots: Link (new window)

Too bad China is the "low cost worlds factory" or that could be happening here.


Actually, all these high tech manufacturing companies are heavily investing in robotic assembly technology, for exactly that reason, Once they've eliminated the cost of paying assembly line wages, there's no incentive to keep the plants in China (due to the high costs of marketing and shipping), and they'd likely move everything back to the US to minimize the other costs.

Of course, that means the plants would create very few jobs, so there'd be little incentive for the US in this venture, but at least they'd be in the US, right?
 
2012-02-02 11:26:54 AM

dimoko: the suicide rate amongst foxxcon workers is less than the national average...people think 6 is a big number until you realize that 200,000 people work there.


Last I heard, there were 17 people that threw themselves off a roof.

Second of all, there are no stats for the suicide rate at the factory. We have no idea how many people killed themselves out of public view. All we know about are the people so fed up with their working conditions that they decided to kill themselves in the most public way they could think of.
 
2012-02-02 11:27:26 AM
Let me start this out by saying I absolutely loath and hate Apple, I don't own any Apple products and I hate their business model. I don't think any of their products are worth what they charge for them and it's all just about owning a cool brand name.

Now if Apple takes a stand and brings all the manufacturing jobs of the iphone, ipad and other Apple products over to the US for a few dollars more a product I would gladly purchase Apples products to show my support for a big company doing the right thing and setting a good business example.
 
2012-02-02 11:29:36 AM

DamnCheapMonkey: Apple's audits found 0 underage workers in their suppliers' facilities. Are you suggesting they were all squirreled away prior to the audits? Or do you have some source that shows it still happens?


Actually the audits found 6 active and 13 'historical' cases of underage workers, which certainly isn't statistically significant when you're talking about a factory of 400,000 people.

That said, there is an episode of "This American Life" that claims foxxcon puts all the oldest workers on lines when they know they're going to be audited.
 
2012-02-02 11:33:12 AM
They could charge $1200, but only $65 dollars would actually be needed to improve workers wages/working conditions. I'm sure the remaining is the "feel good fee".

Link (new window)
 
2012-02-02 11:35:16 AM

Amagi: The Daily Show claimed that paying the workers a fair wage would only increase retail cost on the phones by 23%, but I don't know where they got those numbers from.

Absolutely the first place I go for actual information on this subject...*sigh*


I've found it to be a more reliable source of news than the networks nightly news.
 
2012-02-02 11:38:00 AM
machoprogrammer: lol what? Apple is higher priced and the quality of the product is the same, if not better in the competitors.

1997 called and they want their myths back.


um, no. the mobile providers subsidize the cost of the cell phones so that consumers can actually afford them. You can see the force of Apple's pricing in an example:

I bought my Galaxy S (Captivate) about 3 months after it came out, as a refurb, for $49 including overnight delivery, with a 2-year contract. The comparable iPhone model at the time was the 3GS. A refurb'd 16GB version was $199 with a 2-year contract...which was the same price as a factory-fresh Galaxy S with a 2-year contract. I didn't bother looking at the factory-fresh iPhone price.

I just looked today: the Samsung Galaxy S II is $149 factory-fresh, with a contract. New 16GB iPhone 4S: $199 w/contract. My old Galaxy S: ONE CENT. iPhone 3GS: NINETY-NINE TIMES THAT PRICE. New, no-commitment price for a 16GB iPhone 4S: $699. Galaxy S II no-commitment price: $499.

You lose. Apple is higher-priced.
 
2012-02-02 11:41:06 AM

digistil: GameSprocket: Stabone33: , and an employee died after working 35 hours straight.

I've worked 38 hours straight, in America.

Damn. What type of work??

I remember pulling 15-18 hour shifts during the summer when I was 14, at the local golf club. I didn't care because it was the only job I could get, so I was fine with it.


Software development.I also logged 96 hours in one week.

It is not something I do on a regular basis. That kind of thing happens about once every couple of years. I usually demand a plan to keep it from happening again once it is all over. Sometimes being salary can suck, but that is why we make (relatively) big money.
 
2012-02-02 11:43:21 AM

Stabone33: I didn't bother looking at the factory-fresh iPhone price.


You should have. Guess what it was?

/hint - $199
 
2012-02-02 11:43:28 AM

Boudyro: Copy pasta'd from the wiki. Add all these companies to your stupid, petition/ban. You might want to also check your clothes. If it's not made in the west you best be taking it off. Then add in most of the rest of the crap in your house, including the Sheetrock. Apple isn't the problem it's YOU.


The reason people have a problem with Apple specifically isn't because they're the only ones abusing their workforce. It's for 2 reasons:

1) No one else has blatantly come out and said that there's nothing anyone can do to get them to move their work back to the US. Apple is perfectly happy abusing people around the world and has the balls to tell the public this. The rest of corporate America may feel the same, but they're at least smart enough to keep quiet about it.

2) Of all the companies in the world, Apple is a perfect example of one that doesn't need to use Chinese labor. They're incredibly profitable, and using labor that doesn't get forced to work a 34 hour shift wouldn't significantly change the bottom line. Apple continues to do it because there's nothing that's stopping them. They will continue to do it until a government forces them to stop. It's a rather good example of the failures of capitalism actually.
 
2012-02-02 11:45:01 AM

NFA: If Americans would stop buying products made by slaves, jobs (not Steve Jobs) would return to America.


No. They won't. Those jobs are never coming back and it's something you need to wrap your head around. If you slap insane taxes on them, they'll move. So Apple, in this example, will no longer be an American company or subject to American laws that would affect a company registered there.

So... how many American jobs would that cost when they move 1 Infinite Loop and the other facilities (bar retail stores) to... Germany? Or the Philippines?
 
2012-02-02 11:46:28 AM
Oh, and ...

Stabone33: I just looked today: the Samsung Galaxy S II is $149 factory-fresh, with a contract. New 16GB iPhone 4S: $199 w/contract. My old Galaxy S: ONE CENT. iPhone 3GS: NINETY-NINE TIMES THAT PRICE. New, no-commitment price for a 16GB iPhone 4S: $699. Galaxy S II no-commitment price: $499.

You lose. Apple is higher-priced.


That is because nobody wants an old Galaxy S because it was a piece of crap to begin with. If the Galaxy S was competitive, they could be charging the same price. Or, do you believe that Samsung has some reason to make less money than they could while also selling less units than the iPhone?
 
2012-02-02 11:46:39 AM
DamnCheapMonkey: Apple's audits found 0 underage workers in their suppliers' facilities. Are you suggesting they were all squirreled away prior to the audits? Or do you have some source that shows it still happens?

Actually the audits found 6 active and 13 'historical' cases of underage workers, which certainly isn't statistically significant when you're talking about a factory of 400,000 people.

That said, there is an episode of "This American Life" that claims foxxcon puts all the oldest workers on lines when they know they're going to be audited.


Here. (new window) Saw this on CBS Sunday morning. Dude went over there and stood outside the factory gate and interviewed workers leaving their shifts.

I can't view the video at work, so LMK if it doesn't work. If I remember correctly, Apple has hired a firm in London to manage this issue for them (might have been a PR firm?). So far, the firm has not been allowed access to the Foxconn factory, and Foxconn didn't return any calls from CBS prior to the story airing.
 
2012-02-02 11:49:27 AM

Stabone33:
You lose. Apple is higher-priced.


Nope. You lose. To whit:

iMac v Generic all-in-one. Victor: iMac
Mac Pro v Gamerz shiat. Victor: Mac Pro
2009 MBP v 2011 Laptops. Victor: Mac Book Pro
iPad v slates. Victor: iPad.

Battlefield: Suscessive fark threads. You and your cult have awarded victory EVERY time. You lose by default at this point.

One day you'll have the money to afford decent kit I'm sure. Until then children should be seen and not heard.
 
kab
2012-02-02 11:55:45 AM

sarah_t_s: Stabone33:
You lose. Apple is higher-priced.

Nope. You lose. To whit:

iMac v Generic all-in-one. Victor: iMac
Mac Pro v Gamerz shiat. Victor: Mac Pro
2009 MBP v 2011 Laptops. Victor: Mac Book Pro
iPad v slates. Victor: iPad.

Battlefield: Suscessive fark threads. You and your cult have awarded victory EVERY time. You lose by default at this point.

One day you'll have the money to afford decent kit I'm sure. Until then children should be seen and not heard.


images.cheezburger.com
 
2012-02-02 11:56:57 AM

sarah_t_s: iMac v Generic all-in-one. Victor: iMac


On price?

No farking way.
 
2012-02-02 12:00:35 PM

sarah_t_s: Nope. You lose.


I would not get into that battle. You will always be comparing a Mac Pro to the latest Sam's Club special buy. The market for high-end PCs is so anemic that it is hard to even find a comparison. I get so sick of the "Why should I pay so much for a MacBook Pro when I can get a PC laptop for $300?". Sure, one is an i7 and one is an AMD E-Series, but they should cost the same, right?
 
2012-02-02 12:03:46 PM
The lack of balance between consumption and production in America vs. elsewhere in the world is directly related to the role of reserve currency played by our dollars.

Normally, production, consumption, and trade would be balanced by means of trade deficits, causing currency valuation changes, which impact the growth of imports or exports such that international production and consumption return to equilibrium.

Instead, reserve currency status and the petrodollar massively boost the demand for American dollars. This causes a distortion where production is encouraged in places that do not pay labor in dollars, and consumption is promoted in locations where wages are paid in dollars.

The arrangement is very good for certain groups, like older Americans who already made their money and get to buy cheap products, or companies with global operations as they can easily work the arbitrage difference between foreign production and domestic sales. On the other hand, this system is very bad for other groups, such as younger and poor Americans who can't find work because jobs have been exported, or foreign workers in export industries who can never use or afford any of the products they spend so much effort manufacturing.

Consider the political power of the previously mentioned groups. Older Americans and companies like the current system which operates at the expense of the young and poor the world over. It's no wonder why the system operates as it does, and no doubt the US government will do everything it can militarily to protect both it's reserve currency status and the petrodollar as they both sustain the system.
 
2012-02-02 12:07:30 PM
Battlefield: Suscessive fark threads. You and your cult have awarded victory EVERY time. You lose by default at this point.

One day you'll have the money to afford decent kit I'm sure. Until then children should be seen and not heard.


The discussion is about smartphones, retard. Did you get hot sauce from your crayons in your eyes? Go back to licking windows.
 
2012-02-02 12:10:55 PM

kab: Until then children should be seen and not heard.


As I said. You and your cult keep handing victory over. Until you can afford Apple kit, seen and not heard. Adults are talking.
 
2012-02-02 12:18:20 PM

HotWingConspiracy: sarah_t_s: iMac v Generic all-in-one. Victor: iMac
No farking way.


1:1 Feature to Feature shoot out. As per normal rules of engagement. The Fark contingent of the anti-apple cult declared the iMac victorious and as per the rules of engagement no do overs.

GameSprocket:
I would not get into that battle.


Yes... Some Tesco Value PC vs a high end Workstation never ends well for Tesco. It is something I have tried to explain; yeah it's cheap but it's built quality sucks balls (more so than Apple and its infamous overuse of thermal grease) and it'll fall apart a day after the warranty expires.

If HP, Dell & Apple sell 100k workstations a year I'd be truly surprised.
 
kab
2012-02-02 12:18:31 PM

sarah_t_s: Adults are talking.


Yeah, I'm going to have to state that any adult who thinks a mac pro makes a better gaming rig than a slew of other options.. probably shouldn't be talking in the first place.

But by all means, continue sounding dumb.
 
2012-02-02 12:21:56 PM

sarah_t_s: HotWingConspiracy: sarah_t_s: iMac v Generic all-in-one. Victor: iMac
No farking way.

1:1 Feature to Feature shoot out. As per normal rules of engagement. The Fark contingent of the anti-apple cult declared the iMac victorious and as per the rules of engagement no do overs.


I don't particularly care about Apple or any PC company on a personal level as you obviously do, but the idea that you're presenting yourself as the "adult" in the conversation is pretty farking laughable.

"No do overs"

farking hell
 
2012-02-02 12:24:05 PM

kab: sarah_t_s: Adults are talking.

Yeah, I'm going to have to state that any adult who thinks a mac pro makes a better gaming rig than a slew of other options.. probably shouldn't be talking in the first place.

But by all means, continue sounding dumb.


I didn't enter the Gamerz shiat in to the ring, you and yours thought an i7 could take a Xeon in a punch up. You know what a Xeon is right? Didn't think so. When you can tell me, exactly, why they cost so much more than a normal unit you might have a fighting chance.

Dumb? Moi? I'm on the winning team. Unlike you.
 
2012-02-02 12:24:55 PM

The Bestest: Speaker2Animals: The Walton family did more damage to this country than al-Qaeda.

The ironic thing is that Sam Walton was pretty big on "Made in America".

Then he died.


Exactly. I remember WalMarts years and years ago had huge signs on everything saying Made in America. Now, there's nothing of the sort. I think the change may have coincided with Sam's death.
 
2012-02-02 12:29:39 PM

HotWingConspiracy:
"No do overs"

farking hell


I know. I didn't make these rules, I am however making sure the anti-apple cultists, who, lets be honest here aren't the sharpest tools in the shed at the best of times, don't randomly decide to ignore their own mandates.

If they were that bright they'd know what an Intel Xeon was and not try throwing Core i5's & shiat up against one whilst being quite loud about how "better" it was.
 
kab
2012-02-02 12:30:07 PM

sarah_t_s: you and yours thought an i7 could take a Xeon in a punch up. You know what a Xeon is right? Didn't think so. When you can tell me, exactly, why they cost so much more than a normal unit you might have a fighting chance.

Dumb? Moi? I'm on the winning team. Unlike you.


Xeons are only available on Macs? CPU is the only factor in a gaming rig?

Yep, you're either utterly clueless, or trolling.
 
2012-02-02 12:33:51 PM

mjoven1975: Aren't pretty much every piece of electronics on the market today made in sweatshops in Asia?


That's the problem. I do need a smartphone for work and all the options on the table come from Chinese sweatshops.

The deal is Apple is sitting on like 18 billion or so in pure cash reserves. They're a good company to pressure to ease up on the supply chain. They get the free PR of doing it and can consider the money they spend on improving conditions and the like to be marketing. They're a good target for this kind of pressure.

Really awesome of course would be for them to spend a billion or two to make some kind of heavily automated factory/environmentally friendly factory in America and prove you can do it. My Android/freetard biatching over "walled gardens" would evaporate as I headed for the Apple store the day I could buy something made in the USA. However it likely doesn't make economical sense so it won't happen.

/high energy prices will get the jobs back, since it will make the cost of fuel oil for ships increase and thus transport costs
 
2012-02-02 12:45:26 PM

Stabone33: The comparable iPhone model at the time was the 3GS


And when was this? I wasn't aware my statement had any historical references.

Stabone33: New, no-commitment price for a 16GB iPhone 4S: $699. Galaxy S II no-commitment price: $499.


And for that lesser price, you also get a lesser screen (330ppi vs. 217ppi), a lesser OS (Gingerbread vs. iOS5), lesser Bluetooth (v. 4.0 vs. v.3.0), no HDR photography, No Siri, No built-in videoconferencing. I agree, you are getting less for less money. There is one thing you get with Android you don't get with Apple :

Malware.

One thing you get with Apple you will never get with this Samsung : support. With the iPhone, even the 3GS, I can walk out of the store and know if I purchased Apple care the phone WILL be supported to the end of the contract, and AppleCare Plus will now even cover two cases of accidental damage.

So, like I said : 1997 is calling and they want their myths back.
 
2012-02-02 12:54:32 PM

kab: sarah_t_s: you and yours thought an i7 could take a Xeon in a punch up. You know what a Xeon is right? Didn't think so. When you can tell me, exactly, why they cost so much more than a normal unit you might have a fighting chance.

Dumb? Moi? I'm on the winning team. Unlike you.

Xeons are only available on Macs? CPU is the only factor in a gaming rig?

Yep, you're either utterly clueless, or trolling.


She's in every Mac thread it seems like, and is aggressive in most of them.

Anyway I'm an adult and my two "gaming rigs" are a Mac Pro and a MacBook Pro (the Macbook Pro has some very nice options at video card as far as laptops go so I can play various games while I travel).

Did I overpay on the hardware? Yes

Did I have to spent some of my time installing Bootcamp and Win7? Yes

Did I not have to spend of my time inside the case with a screwdriver? Yes (although to be far I did stick some RAM in the Pro)

If something goes wrong can I drive past the Apple Store on my way to work, hand them the computer, and say "Fix this"? Yes

I have a bunch of home built computers floating around and I'll likely build more if I need them for specific purposes. However if you don't want to spend the time to build a gaming rig, Macs became very attractive the minute they offered Bootcamp. Starting around 2.1 or so Bootcamp became very stable (1.0 used to corrupt the hard drive on a regular basis for me) and the price of Mac vs a name brand gaming right is not that far off. You pay a bit of overhead in having Bootcamp floating around in memory and doing its thing, but when you have 16 GB RAM and an i7, your game wasn't going to be using all your system resources anyway.

Plus if I need *Nix for any reason I can just reboot the box to Snow Leopard and have *Nix with a nice GUI on it.

My son just built a box with:
Solid State Hard Drive for the OS
15000 RPM drive for games/programs
Pair of 72000 RPM drives for media

and his boot time annihilates my Mac Pro. Yet I rarely boot my Mac (hooray hibernate mode) and when we launch a game he is a good 40% faster, but that is 6 seconds compared to 10 seconds so big deal. In games we render at comparable rates and I didn't spend a Sunday swearing at my onboard SATA drivers and trying to get them work. Or trying to decipher a manual that wasn't exactly clear on where you hooked the power button, firewire cables, and usb cables like he did.

/likely not buying another Mac Pro though
//unless Apple shows more commitment to the desktop market
//it seems like these days they don't want to make anything bigger than a MacBook Pro
 
2012-02-02 01:05:24 PM
Does it come with a certificate showing how many children died trying to assemble it? Seeing as how they are forced to breathe in toxic chemicals working on your latest tech toy.
 
2012-02-02 01:18:50 PM
It's funny to come into these threads and see how many people are still living in 1993 when Apple products cost far more than what other companies were selling.
 
2012-02-02 01:28:55 PM

kab: Xeons are only available on Macs? CPU is the only factor in a gaming rig?


I know this is Fark, and many farkers have never ventured outside their Mom's basement, but how did gaming become the only metric for the value of a computer?

I will concede that I would not buy a Mac Pro if my life was centered around gaming.

/Can you really call that a life?
//How do you kill ...
 
2012-02-02 01:33:11 PM
Instead of trying to distribute a portion of apples total profits across 'all employees' and getting in to a debate or argument about what constitutes an employee why not just say:

$699 for a new iDevice

Assembly time, approximately 2 hours

$25/hr paid directly to worker

$749 for a new guilt-free iDevice.

??
 
2012-02-02 01:40:09 PM
The iTards are out in force, today. Just got into a big argument in the office over why i bought a gaming laptop from ASUS versus a Mac Book.

I didn't even tell anyone, he just walked in as was like 'Woah, what is that?'
 
2012-02-02 01:48:59 PM
Look, all the talking points are old and outdated. Anyone running a Win7 machine that isn't pants on head retarded finds managing their computer just as dead simple as OSX. Reboots happen once a week at most, more like 1-2 times per month. Furthermore, for sheer gaming prowess my overclocked i5-2500k and overcompensating-for-something-sized video card will run circles around just about any prebuilt system, including most MacPros under $10,000. Additionally, I can't actually remember the last time something went wrong with my PC, at all - so the vaunted Apple support isn't worth a pile of dog crap to me.

Does any of that mean I'm going to give up my MBP? Nope, I like my MBP...and for a relatively light laptop with a nice screen and excellent battery life I'd say it's user experience is top notch. Do I think that MacPros or MBPs represent anywhere near the value for a gamer that a custom built PC does? Not even remotely close. It's almost like the two ecosystems can coexist and serve different purposes and users equally well. farking un-possible, I know.
 
2012-02-02 01:54:19 PM

ThreadSinger: The iTards are out in force, today. Just got into a big argument in the office over why i bought a gaming laptop from ASUS versus a Mac Book.

I didn't even tell anyone, he just walked in as was like 'Woah, what is that?'


Even I went with Wintel for a gaming machine. I don't consider gaming machines to be a serious tool. And, the primary necessity in a gaming machine is an ability to play games. If you have to boot into another OS to accomplish that task, it was not the best tool.
 
2012-02-02 02:07:32 PM

bemis23: Look, all the talking points are old and outdated. Anyone running a Win7 machine that isn't pants on head retarded finds managing their computer just as dead simple as OSX. Reboots happen once a week at most, more like 1-2 times per month. Furthermore, for sheer gaming prowess my overclocked i5-2500k and overcompensating-for-something-sized video card will run circles around just about any prebuilt system, including most MacPros under $10,000. Additionally, I can't actually remember the last time something went wrong with my PC, at all - so the vaunted Apple support isn't worth a pile of dog crap to me.


I would say there is one significant difference and it influenced my decision making when I bought a new laptop a few weeks ago. I am always very impressed by Time Machine. Replacing a machine, formatting, and general recovery are dead simple on any Mac that uses Time Machine for backups.

The built in Windows 7 backup utility is functional, but it can be esoteric at times.

/2 Windows PCs at home and the Macbook Pro
 
2012-02-02 02:46:00 PM

GoodyearPimp: One of those companies has managed to sue their way free of competition and builds in 30% profit margins.


Which one are you referring to: Cisco, IBM, or Nintendo?
 
2012-02-02 03:36:12 PM

1macgeek: And for that lesser price, you also get a lesser screen (330ppi vs. 217ppi), a lesser OS (Gingerbread vs. iOS5), lesser Bluetooth (v. 4.0 vs. v.3.0), no HDR photography, No Siri, No built-in videoconferencing. I agree, you are getting less for less money. There is one thing you get with Android you don't get with Apple :

Malware.

One thing you get with Apple you will never get with this Samsung : support. With the iPhone, even the 3GS, I can walk out of the store and know if I purchased Apple care the phone WILL be supported to the end of the contract, and AppleCare Plus will now even cover two cases of accidental damage.


Screen res: OK, for now. My friends who have iPhone 4's look at my super-AMOLED screen, however, and to a one, have said "damn, I can't tell the difference..."

Android vs iOS: if you want openness and modularity, Android wins hands down. Ease of use and experience: a wash.

Bluetooth 3.0 vs 4.0: Meh. I don't use bluetooth headsets, so my own phone's Bluetooth 2.0 works just fine for hands-free talking in my cars. And they're not Bluetooth 4.0 capable anyway. And the next version of the Galaxy S will probably be 4.0 anyway for those who do want to use it.

HDR phtography: what a farking joke. How many people will even notice the difference when posting pics on facebook? Real photgraphers will still use DSLRs, and the prices for those are coming down. So, meh.

Siri: data hog, and a gimmick. So I can't ask my phone to show me its tits, boo farking hoo. It still voice dials, voice texts, voice internet searches, and voice-takes-appointments accurately, and location-based apps are available to integrate all that together.

Built-in teleconferencing: I can't use Apple's teleconferencing, but I can download Skype for free, and video call with anyone all over the world on any device, for free. Skype wins hands down.

Malware: I don't have any malware on my phone. Legit apps to scan and remove malware are out there for free, and there are others for a small fee that are just as good as anything on a PC. And it's a small risk for the openness offered by Android's OS. The price differential there still doesn't close the gap.

Support: Yeah, Apple has good support. But I have a plan that means if AT&T can't fix my phone, I get a new one. If I throw it off the roof, and run it over with a steamroller, I get a new phone. I'm past my contract, and I'm still getting OS updates.

What I get that Apple doesn't offer: additional SD card slot, swappable SIMs, replaceable battery. That last one is huge -- if you use your smartphone a lot, you have to charge it every day, or every other day at best. After a year and a half, you'll need a new battery. A quick trip to Batteries Plus, and I have a new battery. How do you replace the battery in your iPhone? And the difference in cost between a 16GB iPhone and a 32GB iPhone is WAY more than the cost of adding a 32GB SD card to my 14GB of built-in memory. And the price differential is still not closed.

But more importantly to this thread is that Apple is popular with a certain segment of the population that prides itself on being above heartless, evil Big-Business and their horrible, profit-driven motives; and on being very conscious of social issues. And Apple, as a world leader in consumer technology innovation, has the cash and the pull to fix the problems that Foxconn is guilty of by moving production, over time, back to the US. Will they do it? If they start to do it, I'll buy an iPhone to support them. But until then, no iPhone for me -- there's better value for my money.
 
2012-02-02 04:30:56 PM
I thought the NYT article posted above made some good points hardy anybody has made. People like having a new device like a phone every 2 years. This wouldn't be possible if sub-suppliers and the integration factories were in the US. Plus the phones are sold all over the world. Why should they be should they be made in America?
 
2012-02-02 05:26:31 PM
I think there's a misconception that the price would go up if Tech companies were forced to make electronics in a proper factory.

How it works is they get a $500 device made for $50 overseas and then pocket the change.
They may have saved money, but they have no intention of charging a cent less than the market will bear.

/and for a luxury item, the market will bear quite a bit.
 
2012-02-02 06:23:00 PM

marsgwar: I thought the NYT article posted above made some good points hardy anybody has made. People like having a new device like a phone every 2 years. This wouldn't be possible if sub-suppliers and the integration factories were in the US. Plus the phones are sold all over the world. Why should they be should they be made in America?


Stabone33: Apple is popular with a certain segment of the population that prides itself on being above heartless, evil Big-Business and their horrible, profit-driven motives; and on being very conscious of social issues. And Apple, as a world leader in consumer technology innovation, has the cash and the pull to fix the problems that Foxconn is guilty of by moving production, over time, back to the US.

I would append, "in response to those customers' preferences," but I'm not sure that's true in big enough dollar terms to make a difference to Apple.

But that's the best reason I could come up with. The problem is, the very issue at the heart of the OWS movement is that one side says corporations should "have a heart" while at the same time, they don't want them to be persons; the other side says, "thou shalt not force a company to do business in such a way that it restricts profit earning potential" and that it's the consumer's job to educate themselves and apply whatever criteria is important to them when choosing what products to buy.
 
2012-02-02 06:57:45 PM
Give me my iPhone 5, I just strapped on my face vagina.

69.12.150.7
 
2012-02-02 07:51:36 PM

1macgeek: So, like I said : 1997 is calling and they want their myths back.


Still spending hours of time shrilly defending the world's most profitable corporation, are we?
 
2012-02-02 08:02:08 PM

Without Fail: 1macgeek: So, like I said : 1997 is calling and they want their myths back.

Still spending hours of time shrilly defending the world's most profitable corporation, are we?


Well, to be fair, he's probably being paid, so it's about what one would expect.

If so, he should be fired, because he can't provide a single supportable argument, and tosses in accompanying ad hominems...and even those are lame.
 
2012-02-02 08:20:38 PM

You_Really_Like_Me: How about this: We send a message to Apple by not buying their products on Monday of each week. It worked so well for the idiots who recommended that for fuel purchases.


I still refuse to buy on Monday and I get weird 2 a.m. hangup phone calls and I've got guys in black Suburbans parked outside my house.
 
2012-02-02 08:38:46 PM

DamnCheapMonkey:
It's not the cost of the labor, it's the availability of enough people with the right skills to assemble hi-tech products and the engineers necessary to monitor the production. What US company can even meet, much less beat, the speed that Foxconn can find and hire the thousands of people their clients need?


Yeah, people with the right skills, like farm workers with no education coming from the poor middle areas of China. America can't find those high skilled workers!

Comparing treatment of workers is just as stupid as comparing their wages. And you have the nerve to insult my intelligence?
 
2012-02-02 08:40:34 PM

sarah_t_s:
No. They won't. Those jobs are never coming back and it's something you need to wrap your head around. If you slap insane taxes on them, they'll move. So Apple, in this example, will no longer be an American company or subject to American laws that would affect a company registered there.

So... how many American jobs would that cost when they move 1 Infinite Loop and the other facilities (bar retail stores) to... Germany? Or the Philippines?


That's why you have to strong arm these companies. If they don't want to play ball with American laws, then you forbid them from being able to sell any of their products in America.
 
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